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The last time we wrote about the Facebook group 'Things designed by people who don't have to clean them', it had 40,000 members. But since then, this online community has more than doubled and is approaching the 100,000 mark, so it's about time we release an update on them.

"The design and maintenance of our spaces are deeply political," the group writes in its 'About' section. "The entire point of 'Things designed by people who don't have to clean them' is that those who design and those who maintain are not the same. Because we spend most of our time in designed spaces this disconnect has a huge impact, especially on those who traditionally don't have power in society."

So they're here, shaking things up, trying to remind everyone about the hidden tax attached to Swarovski-encrusted toilets and rock-covered sinks, and that is the amount of headache and time people will spend cleaning them.

More info: Facebook

#1

Just Stay In The 70s. Thanks

Just Stay In The 70s. Thanks

Barby Km Report

For our earlier article, we got in touch with the founder of the group, Will Feetham. He described the content you see on 'Things designed by people who don't have to clean them' as design-focused critical analysis.

Even though it has grown tremendously, the group remains private and you have to answer a few political questions to get in. Feetham has had pushback from the applicants about this as the group seems anything but political, however, he believes that the design and maintenance of our spaces are deeply political. "The entire point of 'Things designed by people who don't have to clean them' is that those who design and those who maintain are not the same," he told Bored Panda. "Because we spend most of our time in spaces [designed by others], this disconnect has a huge impact, especially on those who traditionally don't have power in society."

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"Looking at bad design helps highlight the importance of good design, and thinking about who will clean what we design makes us focus on the importance of inclusion in the design process. As a tag group, we can inject a bit of thought about these issues into a lot of different conversations which makes me so happy."

Feetham got the idea for the group from a picture of a topographical relief sink modeled after a lake, which he has been told is in the California state library. "It's beautiful, and the concept is both insightful and educational. In the execution, though, the designer didn't consider the people who would have to clean the installation. Clearly, a lot of thought went into the concept, but that thoughtfulness doesn't seem to have extended to maintenance. 'Things designed by people who don’t have to clean them' just popped into my head."

#6

This Is My Ceiling Light. It’s New, And I Loved It Til I Joined This Group And Realized I Have No Idea How To Clean It

This Is My Ceiling Light. It’s New, And I Loved It Til I Joined This Group And Realized I Have No Idea How To Clean It

Elana Kehoe Report

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#9

Saw This Sink In A Bathroom Showroom And Thought Of You My Friends. It Has Actual Fish In It

Saw This Sink In A Bathroom Showroom And Thought Of You My Friends. It Has Actual Fish In It

Maryum Farhan Report

As you could guess, Feetham himself doesn't like cleaning. "As a cisgender man in our patriarchal culture, I have been allowed to do less than my share of household chores at many points in my life," he said. "Equality is deeply important to me, and I have come to understand the many ways, large and small, that the caring and cleaning work that forms the foundation of our daily existence is minimized."

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According to him, our society tends to devalue the invisible service class, who are often women and people of color. So they are left to pick up the pieces, literally, and tend to the performative aesthetics of our consumer culture.

#10

Bride Decided This Was The Best Way To Display Her Dress After The Wedding

Bride Decided This Was The Best Way To Display Her Dress After The Wedding

Lindy Pearce Report

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keith-johnson avatar
KJ
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Imagine getting up for the loo in the middle of the night if you were a guest, wouldn't need to go all the way to the loo.

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#11

I Finally Have A Contribution!! Reminds Me Of The Fuzzy Skeleton Someone Shared The Other Day…maybe This One Could Be Thrown In The Washer?

I Finally Have A Contribution!! Reminds Me Of The Fuzzy Skeleton Someone Shared The Other Day…maybe This One Could Be Thrown In The Washer?

Melissa Smith Report

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f_h_ avatar
F. H.
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's an art installation. How to clean it will be the concern of future conservators.

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#12

Omfg, This Is Giving Me The Shivers

Omfg, This Is Giving Me The Shivers

Miguel G. Bouças Report

#14

I Present To You My Desk Chair

I Present To You My Desk Chair

I hate it. It was here when I got here. The bumps are hard plastic and extremely uncomfortable also the back has no give whatsoever. I work in the office part of a warehouse and everything gets super dirty here. Not looking forward to cleaning it which I can imagine will be done with a toothbrush.

Patience Hawkins Report

#15

This Was A Sink In A Public Bathroom That I Used Yesterday

This Was A Sink In A Public Bathroom That I Used Yesterday

(it does have a drain, it’s just hard to see under the bubbles) it’s flat, theres ridges in it that go about an inch deep into the sink to resemble rock or something. It’s obviously covered in grime and soap residue. Might have been cool in someone’s house, but not in a public bathroom like this

Holly Hass Report

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May
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I can practically see the germs that are living of all that residue

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#16

My Toes And Shins Hurt Just Looking At This. Hope You Like Cobwebs

My Toes And Shins Hurt Just Looking At This. Hope You Like Cobwebs

Scott Martin Report

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geoffrogers avatar
Ara
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Are there candles in there? If so, cleaning may not be the issue it at first appears to be.

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#17

Indoor Beach. Oof

Indoor Beach. Oof

Cammie Burns Report

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meinespammailadresse1 avatar
A B C
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Lol, I read the two signs on the floor as "sure, sand" as in "yeah sure, why not?" - famous last words.

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#18

Seletti: Monkey Chandelier By Marcantonio

Seletti: Monkey Chandelier By Marcantonio

I wish I had it but DAMN.
(also, it cost too much for me.)
(BUT ANYWAY DAMN!!!)

Andrea Ashton Caprifogli Report

#19

Found In The Wild. My Mom, Who Has No Knowledge Of Facebook Or This Group, Her First Words Were "Try Cleaning That."

Found In The Wild. My Mom, Who Has No Knowledge Of Facebook Or This Group, Her First Words Were "Try Cleaning That."

Becky Brinkman Report

#21

Just.... Why?! Even If The Bowl Is Smooth, The Outside Is Just...

Just.... Why?! Even If The Bowl Is Smooth, The Outside Is Just...

Jessica Helanne Report

#22

Yeah, It's An Art Installation. Very Ugly Art

Yeah, It's An Art Installation. Very Ugly Art

Eli Westerfield Report

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meinespammailadresse1 avatar
A B C
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Couldn't fit the chairs any closer to the table because they'd crush some Swarovskis otherwise, huh? This is just stupid.

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#23

I'd Like To Personally Say F**k You To Whoever Invented This Damn Kitchen Gadget. You Don't Know How Many Nights It Would Be My Turn To Do The Dishes And This F**ker Always, Always, Ended Up Being Used. I Hate It So Much

I'd Like To Personally Say F**k You To Whoever Invented This Damn Kitchen Gadget. You Don't Know How Many Nights It Would Be My Turn To Do The Dishes And This F**ker Always, Always, Ended Up Being Used. I Hate It So Much

Cheyenne Lynn Report

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zora24_1 avatar
kathinka avatar
Katinka Min
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You need to rinse this straight after using. Once bits are dried onto it, you lost.

vickyz avatar
Vicky Z
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And that's the rule for every kitchen tool that cleans difficultly!

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bea_hettlage avatar
MauKini
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a newer model where you can push a bottom at the top and a plastic panel pushes the rest of the onions out. Super easy to clean.

shalinipabreja avatar
Shalini Pabreja
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Using the same model daily. Super easy to clean plus same size veggies for daily bulk cooking.

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deborahbrett avatar
Deborah B
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not being a 'real cook' I buy frozen chopped onion at the supermarket. It saves so much time and effort and mess, and it's really cheap. It also means less waste, without whole onions going rotten or sprouting before you use them.

junkmailspam avatar
An Co
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That device is designed to be put into a dishwasher, not hand washed.

s_p_barnett avatar
Steve Barnett
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you use a suitable washing up brush, it's not that difficult to clean. If you solely use a dish cloth, then I can see why you despair.

lseah2006 avatar
Lisa Owen
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these. Always comes clean in the dishwasher. Not to mention they come with a cleaning tool for people that do dishes by hand .

christinezanfino avatar
Christine Zanfino
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these - absolutely love it ! It does go in the dishwasher. It does come apart and the white button on top (you can't see it in the pic) - push it and all the stuck food falls out so it's easy to clean. Much more convenient than knives and more uniformed pieces

icanhazpanda avatar
Raven DeathShade
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What? We just bought one of those. They're really fast, easy to use, and dishwasher safe. They also come with a specific little comb thing to get all the food residue out of the top bit...I don't see the issue here.

julirucker avatar
julia
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these. It’s really not hard to clean at all. OP is just being a drama queen

awdudeno avatar
Jane Doe
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got one at TJ maxx. it goes in the dishwasher. There's no way I'd hand wash that.

jessicagunn avatar
Jessica Gunn
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Soak it in hot soapy water, and open and close it under the water a few times....I honestly don't see an issue here

jevanderwerf avatar
13
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Jezus. Use and rinse. Save your hatred for the Orc hordes.

lillywhite120 avatar
Alexis Draskinis
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

99% sure its dishwasher safe. My sister has one & have never seen her hand wash it. Always looks good though

thomasbiorogue avatar
Thomas Biorogue
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these. It's easy to clean, I don't see what the problem is. Perhaps their family is using it to dice cheese?

lisa-mahoney1975 avatar
The Deez
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these and I absolutely love it! Yeah, yeah, I know that onions (and tomatoes!) can be diced with knives BUT not as neatly or as small as this thing can. (At least not by me, anyway!)

nonotalways avatar
Bryn
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

https://www.amazon.com/Vidalia-Chop-Wizard-Cleaning-Tool/dp/B01N325OQT it has a tool specifically made to clean it...

stephaniedemeritt_10 avatar
PossumMom
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one that gets used EVERY. SINGLE. F*CKING. DAY. I hated cleaning it until I figured out it came with a little comb type thing to use on it. I still hate finding that thing in the kitchen sink every morning.

stevefischer avatar
Steve Fischer
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It slices. It dive. It purees. Which is why this made a terrible condom

dawnc avatar
Dawn C
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Mine came with a comb thing that fits in the spaces and cleans it up easily.

spazmops19 avatar
Logic and Reason
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ok, time to share a tip. To clean the part that forces the onion through the blade grate, slam it into the side of the sink as hard as possible and then drop it face down from about 2 feet. It works insanely well for all of these that I’ve ever encountered.

linda_jansen_reserve avatar
Linda Jansen
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

is this the one with the button you have to press on the lid so that it's easy to clean ? ideal for people with hand problems.

fjlop23 avatar
best turtle
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

my mom has one she forgets she has it because i hide it... i refuse to wash this

auroradarc avatar
Pangolin Pal
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oof, I can't agree - I have one of these gadgets, and while it is, in fact, a nightmare to clean, the perfectly even tiny cubes of onion it slices make it worthwhile for me. (I have ZERO "real cook" knife technique.)

psychocat avatar
Psycho Cat
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't really see the problem with cleaning it... Use a dish brush and voila. Same with the potato french fry cutter.

campasheck avatar
SkekVi
Community Member
1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

does OP live somewhere without a dishwasher?? Bc yeah that would be annoying esp if it hadn't been washed RIGHT after being used. But otherwise... what is OP kvetching about

kay_c_maxey avatar
Kay Maxey
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Where’s the slicer. That top part is just for cleaning the little squares.

sj-dumond avatar
JD Lee
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you bought this you deserve the headache. It’s a gimmick. In the real world we use knives & avoid more worthless plastic to clog the oceans with.

kenreg22 avatar
Regina Rooney
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a small tool with tines that comes with the chopper that is used to clean the grid on top. It works great. Rinsing right after using is also helpful.

donnagettingsapperson avatar
Donna Gettings Apperson
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one and love it. It's a bear to clean, but with my flubbed up hands, I appreciate that I can chop things with it.

tagleason avatar
Tes Glyssane
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have this and love it. It's faster than hand cutting and easy to clean. What's not to like?

carly_weber avatar
Carly Weber
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got one of these from my mother-in-law. Took one look at it and never used because I don't have a dishwasher. I figure you have to cut whatever, then use this and have extra dishes you have to do not to mention having to clean it without a dishwasher. That's why I got rid of the stupid garlic press. That does not come clean just by rinsing it under water. Plus you waste half the garlic.

carly_weber avatar
Carly Weber
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got one from my mother-in-law. Took one look at it and never used it. I guess it would be okay if you have a dishwasher but, I don't. I figure you just have to use the knife to cut whatever, then you use this thing, now you got extra dishes to do not mention how awful this would be to clean without a dishwasher.

rebel1011 avatar
Kathy Stern
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Don't worry. They break almost immediately. Problem solved.

mborggreve avatar
Tequila4Two
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have one of these, it comes with a little scraper. And it is easy to clean, just rinse it.

dutchvanzandt avatar
Oskar vanZandt
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Easy solve... just soak it in cool water so all the grooves are irrigated and the stuck bits of onions loosen. Rinse and voila... (can always wash it in suds after if you're so inclined).

katlineker avatar
Kat Lineker
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Rinse it off immediately after using it. Also - it CAN be washed in the dishwasher.

sarah_a_tate avatar
Sarah Tate
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It does go in the dishwasher - although you're screwed if you don't have one.

erikgranqvist avatar
Erik Ivan
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Put it in the dishwasher. If you are lucky, it will come out like twisted art.

blbrightonoswin_1 avatar
Brian Bennett
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Believe it or not I have one of these- located in a box in the darkest corner of the basement!

lyralover avatar
Femke Van Der Leij-Nijdam
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My father thinks they're brilliant and demonstrated immediately why they suck. Sliced part of is finger off. Husband did the exact same thing while saying something about being careful while using it... Idjits

janislhall avatar
Janis Hall
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I love my chopper.. but you do need to have an electric dishwasher

rileyhquinn avatar
Riley Quinn
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I've never been duped into buying these excessive "utensils" because I own knives. Lots and lots of knives.

numagirl66 avatar
Harley K
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

because they're not designed for you. they're designed for people with disabilities...

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edc_82 avatar
Lola
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It takes longer to wash this than cut veggies with a knife. No, thank you.

dk_5 avatar
D K
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had one of these a long time ago. Used once and never again. I’ve had enough years experience food prepping and cooking now to where I just use a good ole’ fashioned knife and cutting board

fwteinialvanaki avatar
Panda
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You just need to wash it immediately. I find it very convenient.

nfrlprdpr avatar
Mazer
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Please…let us know how you really feel about it!! 😜 can’t you accidentally throw it out or break it?

numagirl66 avatar
Harley K
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

or ask whoever keeps using it to wash it like an adult, lol

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mtemple33 avatar
J-Yogi-Temp-Mom
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have this. OMG it's soooo hard to clean. i have to use a tooth pic. my kids are the only reason this is used. And once they get bigger it's gone!

john_123 avatar
More Thinking Needed
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

A garbage can makes cleaning this device from hell an easy and quick clean up.

jamie_mayfield avatar
Ivana
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I pretty much refuse to own any kitchen gadgets. Just a ton of clutter that ends up shoved in a drawer. Just not very hard to chop an onion.

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#24

It's Cute Tho

It's Cute Tho

Tehreem Hassan Report

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Raven Sheridan
Community Member
2 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Is this a mug for cat haters? Every time you have tea of coffee, you get to drown the kitty.

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#29

The Pieces That Are Overlapped Would Be A Nuisance To Polish! And As Someone Easily Distracted I Wouldn't Know What Piece Of Mirror To Look In When Using It But That's Just Me

The Pieces That Are Overlapped Would Be A Nuisance To Polish! And As Someone Easily Distracted I Wouldn't Know What Piece Of Mirror To Look In When Using It But That's Just Me

Shauna Cameron Report

#30

Just... Why

Just... Why

Eliška Anna Skurňová Report

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Big Blue Cat
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The idea is fun, but cleaning not so much. Also these thing break so easily I would constantly think I'm drinking glass shards.

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#31

This Chest...the Cuts Are Like 5cm Deep In Some Spots...

This Chest...the Cuts Are Like 5cm Deep In Some Spots...

Daniel Johansson Report

#33

This Mirror I Saw At A Bar In Charleston

This Mirror I Saw At A Bar In Charleston

Kara Maureen Porell Report

#34

“Giant Corn Stool” - There’s A Joke In There Somewhere

“Giant Corn Stool” - There’s A Joke In There Somewhere

Sarah Jane Tabone Report

#35

These Ceiling Mics In The Choir Room At My School

These Ceiling Mics In The Choir Room At My School

You can’t reach them without a ladder and I don’t think they have ever been cleaned.
(I’m not good at descriptions but I tried)
Description: A small black ceiling microphone with a large cobweb wrapped around it.
26

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#36

Things Designed By People Who Don't Have To Clean Them And Bought By The People Who Don't Care About Cleaning Them

Things Designed By People Who Don't Have To Clean Them And Bought By The People Who Don't Care About Cleaning Them

Võ Quốc Bảo Report

#37

I Want This. But I Don't Want The Drama Associated With Cleaning It

I Want This. But I Don't Want The Drama Associated With Cleaning It

Shaniah Moth Pheonixx Report

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F. H.
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I have a hand-made pottery cup with a little molded crocodile on the bottom. It's no problem to clean as long as you don't let it dry in. This mug here is much less complicated. I think you could just put it in the dishwasher.

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#38

I Thought This Would Fit Here

I Thought This Would Fit Here

Tary Timót Report

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Becky Samuel
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Copper ball bearings to clean the insides of glassware and decanters without scratching.

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#39

I Found One In The Wild!! About Eight Feet Long, Hanging From A Door Frame. Various Beautiful Sea Shells Tied To A Central Cord. The Angles, Textures, And How Tight They're Strung Together Would Never Allow A Duster Through Properly. The Central Cord Is Hemp So Can't Get It Wet! And The Small Crevasses Are Impossible To Reach, Especially In The Spiral And Hollow Shells. Beautiful Idea, But The Dust Magnet This Is Makes Me Want To Burn It With Fire

I Found One In The Wild!! About Eight Feet Long, Hanging From A Door Frame. Various Beautiful Sea Shells Tied To A Central Cord. The Angles, Textures, And How Tight They're Strung Together Would Never Allow A Duster Through Properly. The Central Cord Is Hemp So Can't Get It Wet! And The Small Crevasses Are Impossible To Reach, Especially In The Spiral And Hollow Shells. Beautiful Idea, But The Dust Magnet This Is Makes Me Want To Burn It With Fire

Kyle Timber Rose Report

#40

Artificial Grass In The Bathroom. I Wonder How Long Before It Ends Up In Yup, That's A Piss Corner Mushroom

Artificial Grass In The Bathroom. I Wonder How Long Before It Ends Up In Yup, That's A Piss Corner Mushroom

Joe Dunn Report

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Paul C.
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

As an ex carpet fitter, I can't begin to tell you the number of times I've had to stick it to the side of bath panels. Not my choice, but you're paying.

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