Twitter Thread Starts A Discussion On Sharing What Your Salary Is With Your Peers To Check If The Pay Is Fair
Lily Konings is a digital product designer with an impressive resume. However, her career wasn’t without its challenges.
Recently, Konings turned to Twitter to share what she went through when she moved to the tech hub, San Francisco. More specifically, how she ended up with a $30K smaller pay than her peers.
Lily’s honest tweets immediately went viral, sparking a discussion on unequal pay and ways to eradicate it. Here’s how it went down.
A few days ago, digital product designer Lily Konings tweeted about her experience with unequal pay
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Lily touches on an important point. Generally, women and minorities ask for – and are offered – lower salaries than white men; this problem is called the ‘ask gap.’
In many fields, men expect higher salaries than women with comparable qualifications. For example, a study of online jobseekers in Argentina found that women ask for 6% less on average. This gap increases in male-dominated occupations — another study that took a look at US doctors in residency showed that women’s ideal starting salary averaged 92% of men’s ideal.
Some people disagree with Lily’s arguments
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While these numbers might not seem that worrying at first, keep in mind that pay gaps at the start of a career compound.
“Over time it builds up because the percentage of raises is usually based on the base salary, so that accumulates over the years,” Zhaleh Semnani-Azad, a management professor at California State University, Northridge, told the BBC. “So, this is where women do miss out long term.” Some researchers have estimated that a difference of $1,000 in starting salary could lead to a cumulative loss of a half-million dollars.”
And some support her line of reasoning
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I feel like the question "how much would you like your salary to be" is complete bs and should be turned around where the employer tells the employee how much they will be paid, why and how or when it will be raised, so you can't do these stupid "gotcha!" moments.
I have never worked anywhere, where I need to negotiate my salary. The idea is completely foreign to me! Any job ive applied for, the salary is advertised. Every where i have worked as well, you get a raise each year for so many years, so there will be people doing the same job on different levels.
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At my unionized job we have a grid that outlines what we get paid based on how long we have worked there and inflation (year). This is the wage appendix we negotiated in the fall. At my non unionized job I made minimum wage for years even though I pretty much ran the show in my department. Only when they promoted the guy hired after me to me the head, as a consolation prize they gave me a wage increase. Honestly though that company is so badly run if they had to pay everyone fair wages they would probably go out of business. IMG_202108...555686.jpg 
Spirit of enquiry question - is this a uniquely US thing - you asking for your own salary and job postings rarely even giving a range - or is it universal and the UK is the oddball by putting salary ranges in the ads and negotiations for salaries not really being a "thing"? I've never been given the opportunity to negotiate - the salary is £x, take it or leave it, you'll get salary bumps within the range for your role.
It's getting more common in the UK, sadly. My wife works for a multinational company and they don't reveal pay, only very vague 'grades'. My wife had to ask her colleagues about their pay to work out whether she had got offered the bottom or top of the band when she joined the company.
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In Italy, it's rude to ask coworkers how muche they make, or even friends. We don't discuss salaries!
I got paid peanuts for a job I had for 15 years. Since leaving there I've job hopped for the last 5 years and am making more than double my highest wage from my long term job. I've learned that employers talk about loyalty and say job hoping looks bad on a resume, but they're more willing to start a person who's already trained at a higher salary than they are to raise the salary of someone they trained to reflect their new skills.
Just because you don't know your worth, doesn't mean employers don't. If you think you'll make less than you really should, you think employers will be like 'oh no, we pay you more.' No, that doesn't happen. The point is it SHOULD. Pay based on experience and work. Not gender or anything else.
THIS people is why Unions are a good idea. I work in a sector that has two or three recognised national unions, and pay is bargained each year collectively. I KNOW that I earn exactly the same as someone else doing my role (in the civil service), anywhere in the country (unless they're living in London, where they get paid more because it's an expensive place to live).
For sure, unions stop people from getting screwed. I just have a problem with everyone earning the same wage... I was in a union position and took pride in my job and worked hard. It was frustrating seeing the people that put in the least effort that they could get away with, and got paid the same as me. I would like some sort of hybrid, where the salary range for a position is set by union negotiations, but where you are on the range is based on performance (not years of service). Of course the only problem with that is "performance" is hard to measure, and one manager might recommend that all their staff deserve a raise, while a hard-ass manager might be the opposite.
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I am a state employee for Florida and we have a law that all of our salaries have to be posted online. Every time I have applied for a job I have gone online and search the incomes of everyone else with the same job title to see how much they make. I then use it when discussing salary. The university I work for does that thing where they say that salary is based on experience rather than giving you a salary range, I have argued that it is not because we have a budget for each position and if someone with a PhD applies for it, we don't compensate them based on education/experience, we compensate based on the salary range we have for that job. It is embarrassing because I have had people laugh when I give them the offer. I argue to put in the salary range every time I post a job but keep getting vetoed. So I just wasted my time and the applicants time. If someone is over qualified I just tell them over the phone what the range is when scheduling the interview.
Always talk to others about what you earn. It's only the companies who want to keep it hush-hush
That is a pandora's box. Be very careful, you may become resentful or your colleagues resentful at you and if they earn more than you, you'll be keeping half an eye on what their doing. Seen it many times.
Load More Replies...
I had switched careers but was perfectly suited for the job. The salary offered was way less than what I had wanted to take the boss told me the girl I was replacing had done “way more” than I would be doing. Turns out, I ended up doing FAR more than that girl ever did (website and other technical jobs) and I was getting 1/2 of what she made. Eleven years on and I still wasn’t making what that girl had been. I left snd never looked back.
Our HR would pull us in for a "talk" about how we are not to discuss our pay.
Speaking for the tech industry, most companies here (Silicon Valley) pay within a given market salary range. From there it's up to you. You get what you negotiate. When we put an offer on the table, we 100% expect it to be countered. It's just assumed. Rarely does anyone out here accept the first offer.
Out of tech I started an entry level IT contract. I asked for $18 an hr, I got $15. Found out all the males were getting $12. I was the only female.
Imagine if you got the $18ph!!! Then imagine if all women got the same increase above males.... that's what men get above women right now
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The original post is kinda that person's own fault though. I wouldn't say they were being greedy, just didn't do their research before making a life altering decision. A quick Google search would have told you what pay is normal for said profession in said area.
I don't know why it's so taboo. I mean, don't ask someone, sure, but if you want to talk about it amongst yourselves, go ahead, and I don't think the employer should have a say about wether you can or can't. All that being said, in my line of work, it's almost pointless, because so many different factors determine it from person to person, that it's pretty hard to find someone on the same level as you. (I.e years experience, years at that particular hospital, "level",which is how many different areas you're tasked with covering)
You don't need to compare yourself with your peer.. It's not a healthy topic to discuss. People have their own skill set and working pace, thus making different amount of result. If you think you can get better, simply try to get other job. If your employer think that you still needed, then they will offer you a raise to not let you out.. I have been helping many team mate to grow their skill. Many of then surpass me on career even become my manager. Of course his salary the larger then me.. No need to make a fuss.. It is better to train yourself for new useful skills. That way I can get other job that offer more money..
It is unhealthy *not* to discuss your salary, because such secrecy allows unscrupulous employers to systematically underpay certain groups (women, minorities, etc). It’s also been illegal in the US since the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act for employers to bar their employees from discussing their pay.
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Not saying it's NEVER happened to anyone but I've never known anybody to be fired for merely asking for a pay rise in my 27 years of full time work. The worst they can do is say no so it's worth trying. Hell my first ever job I would ask for a pay rise at least once a year. Sometimes I got one sometimes I didn't. I also noticed most of my male piers did the same but the women? . . less so. I guess back then men were the main bread-winners and women were just after some pocket money to top up the household income and didn't NEED the money as much? Where I work now is fair. I had a female colleague a few years back who was getting paid more than my current male colleague as she was older and more experienced.
Load More Replies...
There should be a range and you should be paid for the quality/quantity of work you do. If two people have the same job, but one is slower and doesn’t do as good of a job, they shouldn’t make the same amount.
That's an arrangement that every employer loves. Instead of having to pay people a decent wage they can cut their salary under the pretences that they are slower or aren't the best in their job. Just pay everyone a steady livable salary so even when you're not feeling well or are having issues to perform at your best, your income will be secure.
Load More Replies...
I feel like the question "how much would you like your salary to be" is complete bs and should be turned around where the employer tells the employee how much they will be paid, why and how or when it will be raised, so you can't do these stupid "gotcha!" moments.
I have never worked anywhere, where I need to negotiate my salary. The idea is completely foreign to me! Any job ive applied for, the salary is advertised. Every where i have worked as well, you get a raise each year for so many years, so there will be people doing the same job on different levels.
Load More Replies... At my unionized job we have a grid that outlines what we get paid based on how long we have worked there and inflation (year). This is the wage appendix we negotiated in the fall. At my non unionized job I made minimum wage for years even though I pretty much ran the show in my department. Only when they promoted the guy hired after me to me the head, as a consolation prize they gave me a wage increase. Honestly though that company is so badly run if they had to pay everyone fair wages they would probably go out of business. IMG_202108...555686.jpg
Spirit of enquiry question - is this a uniquely US thing - you asking for your own salary and job postings rarely even giving a range - or is it universal and the UK is the oddball by putting salary ranges in the ads and negotiations for salaries not really being a "thing"? I've never been given the opportunity to negotiate - the salary is £x, take it or leave it, you'll get salary bumps within the range for your role.
It's getting more common in the UK, sadly. My wife works for a multinational company and they don't reveal pay, only very vague 'grades'. My wife had to ask her colleagues about their pay to work out whether she had got offered the bottom or top of the band when she joined the company.
Load More Replies... In Italy, it's rude to ask coworkers how muche they make, or even friends. We don't discuss salaries!
I got paid peanuts for a job I had for 15 years. Since leaving there I've job hopped for the last 5 years and am making more than double my highest wage from my long term job. I've learned that employers talk about loyalty and say job hoping looks bad on a resume, but they're more willing to start a person who's already trained at a higher salary than they are to raise the salary of someone they trained to reflect their new skills.
Just because you don't know your worth, doesn't mean employers don't. If you think you'll make less than you really should, you think employers will be like 'oh no, we pay you more.' No, that doesn't happen. The point is it SHOULD. Pay based on experience and work. Not gender or anything else.
THIS people is why Unions are a good idea. I work in a sector that has two or three recognised national unions, and pay is bargained each year collectively. I KNOW that I earn exactly the same as someone else doing my role (in the civil service), anywhere in the country (unless they're living in London, where they get paid more because it's an expensive place to live).
For sure, unions stop people from getting screwed. I just have a problem with everyone earning the same wage... I was in a union position and took pride in my job and worked hard. It was frustrating seeing the people that put in the least effort that they could get away with, and got paid the same as me. I would like some sort of hybrid, where the salary range for a position is set by union negotiations, but where you are on the range is based on performance (not years of service). Of course the only problem with that is "performance" is hard to measure, and one manager might recommend that all their staff deserve a raise, while a hard-ass manager might be the opposite.
Load More Replies... I am a state employee for Florida and we have a law that all of our salaries have to be posted online. Every time I have applied for a job I have gone online and search the incomes of everyone else with the same job title to see how much they make. I then use it when discussing salary. The university I work for does that thing where they say that salary is based on experience rather than giving you a salary range, I have argued that it is not because we have a budget for each position and if someone with a PhD applies for it, we don't compensate them based on education/experience, we compensate based on the salary range we have for that job. It is embarrassing because I have had people laugh when I give them the offer. I argue to put in the salary range every time I post a job but keep getting vetoed. So I just wasted my time and the applicants time. If someone is over qualified I just tell them over the phone what the range is when scheduling the interview.
Always talk to others about what you earn. It's only the companies who want to keep it hush-hush
That is a pandora's box. Be very careful, you may become resentful or your colleagues resentful at you and if they earn more than you, you'll be keeping half an eye on what their doing. Seen it many times.
Load More Replies... I had switched careers but was perfectly suited for the job. The salary offered was way less than what I had wanted to take the boss told me the girl I was replacing had done “way more” than I would be doing. Turns out, I ended up doing FAR more than that girl ever did (website and other technical jobs) and I was getting 1/2 of what she made. Eleven years on and I still wasn’t making what that girl had been. I left snd never looked back.
Our HR would pull us in for a "talk" about how we are not to discuss our pay.
Speaking for the tech industry, most companies here (Silicon Valley) pay within a given market salary range. From there it's up to you. You get what you negotiate. When we put an offer on the table, we 100% expect it to be countered. It's just assumed. Rarely does anyone out here accept the first offer.
Out of tech I started an entry level IT contract. I asked for $18 an hr, I got $15. Found out all the males were getting $12. I was the only female.
Imagine if you got the $18ph!!! Then imagine if all women got the same increase above males.... that's what men get above women right now
Load More Replies... The original post is kinda that person's own fault though. I wouldn't say they were being greedy, just didn't do their research before making a life altering decision. A quick Google search would have told you what pay is normal for said profession in said area.
I don't know why it's so taboo. I mean, don't ask someone, sure, but if you want to talk about it amongst yourselves, go ahead, and I don't think the employer should have a say about wether you can or can't. All that being said, in my line of work, it's almost pointless, because so many different factors determine it from person to person, that it's pretty hard to find someone on the same level as you. (I.e years experience, years at that particular hospital, "level",which is how many different areas you're tasked with covering)
You don't need to compare yourself with your peer.. It's not a healthy topic to discuss. People have their own skill set and working pace, thus making different amount of result. If you think you can get better, simply try to get other job. If your employer think that you still needed, then they will offer you a raise to not let you out.. I have been helping many team mate to grow their skill. Many of then surpass me on career even become my manager. Of course his salary the larger then me.. No need to make a fuss.. It is better to train yourself for new useful skills. That way I can get other job that offer more money..
It is unhealthy *not* to discuss your salary, because such secrecy allows unscrupulous employers to systematically underpay certain groups (women, minorities, etc). It’s also been illegal in the US since the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act for employers to bar their employees from discussing their pay.
Load More Replies... Not saying it's NEVER happened to anyone but I've never known anybody to be fired for merely asking for a pay rise in my 27 years of full time work. The worst they can do is say no so it's worth trying. Hell my first ever job I would ask for a pay rise at least once a year. Sometimes I got one sometimes I didn't. I also noticed most of my male piers did the same but the women? . . less so. I guess back then men were the main bread-winners and women were just after some pocket money to top up the household income and didn't NEED the money as much? Where I work now is fair. I had a female colleague a few years back who was getting paid more than my current male colleague as she was older and more experienced.
Load More Replies... There should be a range and you should be paid for the quality/quantity of work you do. If two people have the same job, but one is slower and doesn’t do as good of a job, they shouldn’t make the same amount.
That's an arrangement that every employer loves. Instead of having to pay people a decent wage they can cut their salary under the pretences that they are slower or aren't the best in their job. Just pay everyone a steady livable salary so even when you're not feeling well or are having issues to perform at your best, your income will be secure.
Load More Replies...
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