“None Of Your Clothing Is Cruelty-Free”: Person Bursts The Myth Of Ethical Consumption Under Capitalism
According to a study by James Poore, an environmental researcher at the University of Oxford, the adoption of Veganuary (an annual challenge that promotes and educates about veganism by encouraging people to follow a vegan lifestyle for the month of January) in the UK alone is expected to have saved the atmosphere from the equivalent production of CO2 as 450,000 flights from London to Berlin, as well as 2.5 million litres (660,430 gallons) of water.
And that’s the impact of just 31 days. A more permanent adoption of veganism could, according to another study from the same university, be the “single biggest way” to reduce our impact on the environment, lowering an individual’s carbon footprint by 73 percent.
Such studies inspire people to not only adopt a vegan diet but change their entire lifestyle as well, including their fashion choices.
Sustainable fashion is on the increase (searches are up 75 percent year on year, according to global fashion search engine Lyst) and brands are searching for vegan alternatives in an attempt to deliver on this demand.
However, is vegan leather actually a cure for Earth? Not everyone thinks so.
While it can be made from more natural resources like pineapple leaves, cork, and apple peels, it is most often produced from two different plastic polymers; polyurethane (PU) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC) which are so popular due to their wrinkled texture, giving the effect of real leather, according to PETA.
A recent Twitter thread by user Shepherd dives deeper into the topic, raising the question: Is ethical consumption possible under capitalism at all?
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Here’s what other people said on the issue
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One of the vegan arguments is that sheep farmers would cruelly rip the wool including skin off of the animals, basically skinning them alive. As if farmers would deliberately kill their livelyhood... This is about as intelligent as saying farmers kill their cows every morning in order to get to the milk...
Also, leather lasts far longer than PVC. I had some PVC boots, lasted about a year, but leather boots can last more like 20 years. I think that it is far more sustainable to use a byproduct of the meat industry (that'll keep going for a good while yet), than plastic that needs replacing more often, and does not biodegrade.
And people can also get a lot of second-hand leather goods, if they don't want to buy new leather goods.
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My brother has a genuine leather jacket and he is a vegan. He has had it since before he became vegan but he won't throw it away coz it just wastes the animal. He may as well keep it since it has already been purchased, so is no longer contributing to the leather industry. He won't donate it coz why should he get rid of a perfectly good jacket that again has already been made, been paid for etc so why does it matter who wears it. I hope I'm making sense. He won't go out and buy leather anymore.
That's very reasonable and is the approach most vegans I know chose, too. Throwing stuff away won't help anything, while not buying it anymore sure does what it aims at.
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As a lifelong vegetarian and a farm kid: Vinyl/plastic BAD. Cow gonna be eaten by someone anyway, let's use the scraps (hide included). Given how much beef people eat, we'll have good leather for a long while yet, and, yes, leather is better. Care for it, and it lasts decades for *use*. Plastic/vinyl just lasts decades in landfills...
Loo Dominix, what about NOT to eat cows (any sentient beings) and stop unconscionable animal suffering, unavoidable destruction of our planet - the destruction of wild lands and wildlife and thus stop emergence of future deadly, ever more potent viruses and bacteria???? What about that???
Load More Replies... Many people do not realize how damaging all plastic is to the environment and how potentially damaging it can be to the person wearing the plastic. In our emergency services class we had a special class just on dealing with people who were wearing clothing which had plastics in it who suffered from burns. No joke there’s nothing good about this stuff
Exactly. Guess what leather and wool don't do? Melt to your skin! Leather can actually save your skin by acting as a second layer, taking the worst of the heat (burns) or damage (road burn).
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Solution: Make terms like "cruelty-free" and "sustainable" a legal, certifiable term that is only usable if a product/company meets specific criteria. Similar to 'gluten-free,' 'halal,' or even 'champagne.'
There's one thing this post is missing. Peta occasionally admits that not shearing sheep is cruel...... but if you push them, they will tell you that all sheep, and all livestock and pets, should be killed. ...///... Remember that these are the people who sent "couples" to adopt puppies and kittens from shelters so that they could kill them. No, I'm not kidding.
A lot of people here don't seem to realize that most of their clothing is also plastic and its production very bad for the environment. So don't feel too superior for not buying fake leather. Natural fibres and leather have their downsides too, they are just different from the downsides artificial fabrics have. The best thing anyone can do for the environment and animal welfare is to wear the clothes and shoes they already own for as long as possible and to not succumb to the fast fashion trend of buyinga new wardrobe every year.
Sadly this isn’t the only example that sometimes the green solution is not better. Google how we get car batteries for electric cars. Besides being terrible for the environment it has created an entire industry of child labor. There are attempts now to change how the batteries are made. However my point is we need to be careful that the alternative is not worse. Sometimes it’s ok to say we need to move away from xyz but we don’t have a good alternative yet let’s develop one.
But, it's NOT a green solution. Lot's of us have never been under any illusion.
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Pleather... it's called pleather (plastic leather) and it's disgusting, even when styled by a famous designer.
I have a vintage pleather motorcycle jacket that I bought second-hand. It cannot breathe and it squeaks anytime I move. It's about as comfortable as a black garbage bag. Real leather is vastly superior.
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Most vegans I associate with are also environmentalists opposed to the stupid use of plastics (petroleum is a limited resource better used in medical materials, not every stupid single use package and certainly not BURNED). There are SO MANY PROBLEMS with plastics! Plants are the way to go for many replacement materials (don't forget Dow Chemical is a major player in making pot illegal; hemp fiber competed with their synthetic ropes). If people are marketing plastic clothes and shoes as vegan, that's not something to blame on vegans. That's something to blame on marketing and "greenwashing" capitalism. When people take on the vegan position, many of them need time to really figure out all the many products that are animal-based and the environmental issues. Not everyone does. It's really annoying to constantly have vegan hit pieces on this site acting like every vegan is the same; like we're some monolithic group. It's bigotry that even self-professed liberals are happy to engage in.
Hating vegans and Peta is what all those haters live for, those who do nothing for animal protection and environment, those who are causing all the pain, suffering,and destruction. Simply appalling!
Load More Replies... Uh, no. My Vegetarian Shoes (boots actually) are NOT made of plastic. They're made from a material made from plants that looks and feels and functions very much like leather.
Did you read the article? Here, let me help you: "While it can be made from more natural resources like pineapple leaves, cork, and apple peels, it is most often produced from two different plastic polymers; polyurethane (PU) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC) which are so popular due to their wrinkled texture, giving the effect of real leather, according to PETA."
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I wish the writers of these articles would actually speak with the market/audience they are aimed at. I am vegan, I know many vegans, none of us would wear these or 'leather' trousers in a million years!!! They are aimed at a very niche market - the same really as the ones they are copying. Xx
This is an odd mixture of half-understood facts, illegitimate generalisations, misunderstanding of economics, and whataboutism. There is no vegan leather, but which material is really sustainable AND ethical is neither to be answered in a series of Tweets nor in a BP posting. Bashing people for their desire not to exploit animals is sleazy, though. BP would better foster a reasonable discussion on sustainable lifestyles than to shame vegans and their occasional antics. They make easy enemies, but are they really enemies?
Greenwashing has become an epidemic and people really need to stop. This is right up there with buying 'ugly' produce which is a total farce. 'Ugly' produce gets used in other ways...ie 'ugly' apples become sauce or juice etc. They are almost never thrown away. And claiming it's green by not wasting is utter BS. When you order boxes of ugly produce you've just added food miles and unnecessary packaging to something that didn't even need it. STOP IT!
I agree with this post, but I'm not a fan of the fact you quoted PETA as a source.
That's like using the Daily Mail as a newspaper.
Load More Replies... A lot of confused arguments here...Some people are vegan only for environmental reasons, some because they don't want to be responsible for animal deaths. Fake leather definitely fits the second, even if not the first, so I don't think labelling it 'cruelty free' is wrong. And as for the wool thing, who genuinely thinks that buying less wool will lead to unsheared sheep roaming around overheating? Like the farmers would still go to the trouble of raising them but then not shear them...
I think labeling plastic leather as 'cruelty free' is a bit dishonest.
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Yes vegan leather is plastic, it has a short lifespan compared to leather and the origin of the plastic could not be more damaging. But there are alternatives you know a mexican company called desserto makes leather from cactus, in a sustainable way. Still the best way to actually help is triying to make anything you buy last the longer you can, one of the biggest actors in the whole ecological damage is fast fashion and fake plastic leather, with the short lifespan that it has plays exactly in that category.
I would guess that the best for the environment would be to use what's already there, so buy second hand!
Pvc is 40% petroleum. Petroleum oil is an animal product even if they are long dead. so how can this be vegan?
Petroleum oil is an animal product??? What animal it comes from?
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It's complicated. Leather is not just a bi-product of the meat industry, and sometimes the meat is a bi-product of the leather industry. The softest leathers come from calves, or even almost born calves. Sheep in large wool factory farms live a miserable existence. I think vegan leather is definitely misleading, but the notion that leather is just saving something from the landfill is also misleading.
I don't think I can buy leather with a guilt-free conscience but I love mushroom leather and pineapple leather!
Don't forget all that synthetic plush we all fell in love with is polluting everything. Microfibers are turning up in rivers, lakes, food, ..how? every time you launder it, it sheds. All those microfibers go into the water system. Then because they are so light they can become airborne and show up hundreds of miles in water systems nowhere near civilization. I've loved plush, but it's turned out to be a terrible thing for the environment. Better to have wool than that plush.
As someone who can't wear any kind of animal hair, not even cashmere, I'm sticking to my fleece jackets. I've go some that are more than 20 years old and are still in terrific condition.
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Perfection isn't possible. Big surprise. I don't like how they include "under capitalism" in the title. I'm pretty sure that is not the issue.
It's exactly the issue, in the sense that every purchase we make is in some way connected to the system that perpetuates exploitation of workers, local and global pollution and animal cruelty, though. Our "choice" as consumers is at best a choice to do less harm.
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Can we add "green" cars to the list? Plastics, metal and perhaps more worrying is the need for rare earths in their construction....
Electric cars aren't eco until their power source is.
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I knit and crochet. I'd love to use real wool but it's stupid expensive! I just can't afford projects in real wool.
Some dedicated people buy a spinning wheel, a carder and a skein and make their own wool. If you are really into knitting it could be a good long term investment to make and a new skill to learn. If you know a groomer or someone with a dog with long hair and undercoat you can ask them to keep the shedding fur (only the back, sides and front fur). I have a finnish lapphund and the wool is pretty great without any harm done.
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Plastic industry is a huge issue, but it bothers me a bit how they made comparisons to leather and wool - as if it was needed. You can argue against plastic without the comparison, and because the issues regarding plastic, leather an wool are so different from one another, we can't really tackle the topic in a few short tweets like that. (Especially when the argument aren't even carefully constructed: Vegans don't want sheeps to be not sheared or them to be released to the wild. They just want us to stop breeding more of them, because wool industry can be cruel too.) While leather is a byproduct and lasts way longer than most faux leather, it's still awful for the environment, too, because of the tanning process. All textiles etc. have their own issues, and in many cases they can't be compared.
I've worked on sheep stations, during shearing season, it's brutal & traumatic, many sheep die, get hamstrung & other horrific injuries. The entire industry needs a shake up. Don't even get me started on mulsing or castrations, there are no painkillers used & it's awful. I agree that plastic is also bad but at this point, the main focus should be on treating farm animals humanely, then we could all agree that wool is superior to any other oil based products.
natural wool and leather are far far more eco friendly than the so called "vegan" alternative. first of all, they last longer. I had leather jackets for years, some were still in good condition and were also given away. You can dye it and make it look like new again. Natural wool has this very nice property of not retaining smells, especially merino. Also lasts a long time if taken care of. The plastic alternatives stink and get ruined really fast so yo have to throw them away and change them more often. How is that better?
I saw a twitter thread recently where someone was berating vegans for wearing wool because "you have to kill the sheep." Someone replied: "You don't know how wool works, do you?" Sometimes I think PETA has done far more harm than they ever did good.
So how wool "works"??? Sheep are tortured all their lives and end up in slaughter houses or suffer being transported alive by ship from Australia to Muslim countries. If they survive the agonizing journey, a "nice" slaughter is awaiting them!!! That's how wool works, Easily Excitable Panda. I don't think I know that Peta haters are doing a lot of harm and no good what so ever.
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I'm with what Shepherd said. We bred sheep and cattle and horses and dogs and goats and cats and birds and ...... Sure, none of us did it our selves. But don't we bear some responsibility for what those species have become on our behalf? And plastics are killing us and our planet not so slowly as people may believe.
For a bit of balance - there are practices used in some parts of the wool industry that are cruel and do cause suffering to the animals, so it's meaningful to speak of "cruelty-free" wool. I would expect that to mean decent living and transport conditions for the sheep, no mulesing, welfare-driven shearing processes and independent inspections of all of the above. But not all wool farmers use cruel processes. Unlike killing animals for meat, there's nothing inherent in well-managed wool production that harms the animals. Ironically, this is about the only example of "welfarism" in farming that I can think of which actually makes a difference to the animals, as neither they nor their offspring need to die for the process to work as intended. (Keeping yaks for milk in the Himilayas might be another one? Pretty hard to intensively farm yaks, apparently.) EDIT: Just thought of another one! Ahimsa silk (but not conventional silk) where the product is harvested after the moths have fledged and left the coccoon. It's an animal product so not vegan, but vastly less harmful to the environment (and, likely, local workers) than a synthetic equivalent.
SloeLoris, every animal used for what ever they are raised and farmed, end up in the slaughterhouses, they do not go to a nice retirement and die peacefully.
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I bought a purse made out of vegan leather - it's got a cork like texture and made from mushrooms. Seems a lot better for sustainability and the environment in general than plastic. But I'd like to know if that's a wrong assumption?
I love my leather jackets. Warm, durable, protective and I have worn some of them for decades. Add a removeable wool insulator and you have a year round jacket.
.... and you have a year round misery and painful death..... oh, yea, that's what animals get, right LivingTheDream??? What a dream you created for them.
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There is "vegan leather" made of stuff like pineapple or other plant materials. So not necessarily polluting the planet more. As for the wool issue, yes, it is cruel not to shear the sheep and they are not hurt by sheraing them, when done properly. However there is animal cruelty involved if sheep farmers start to cut pieces of sheep's behinds to avoid insect problems ((it's called museling, google it).
It depends on the wool. Not all wool is scratchy. It depends on the fiber thickness, length and crimp (curl pattern). The smaller the micron count (diameter) of the fibers, the less scratchy the wool will be. If you have a thick fiber that is long, it won't be as scratchy as short thinner fibers. The scratch comes from the fiber ends poking out. Longer fibers tend to spin smoother than shorter fibers. Then you get into the crimp pattern and that's way more info than you want. LOL
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Also very important quality of wool, it is pretty much the most naturally fire retardant natural fibre. Synthetics are the exact opposite, highly flammable/meltable.
The number of times I've had disagreements with people advocating how eco friendly they are for buying "vegan" leather and claiming that it's better than all leathers and animal products like wool! These people I've come across seem to think all leather comes from animals locked in tiny cages. Boy do I have news for you! Ever heard of roadkill leather? Deadstock leather? Leather from the food industry? These animals are here because we introduced them thousands of years ago to feed us and clothe us. As long as you try to buy wool, leather and fur that hasn't come from an animal that suffered its far more eco friendly than "vegan" leather
Boy do I have news for you Olivia Payne-Alatsari, it's cruelty!! Did you hear about factory farms? If you want to wear other sentient creature's skin that poor innocent being is murdered!! Sheep do not just get a nice haircut like you do at a hairdresser, and at the end they are murdered at slaughterhouses, all animals exploited for what ever reason do.
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Wool is about 10% of a sheep farmer's income. But you can fleece the sheep twice a year (autumn wool is better quality than spring wool, at least here in Norway where sheep go out all summer and stay in all winter), but only skin them once.
What a hell that means, Zillboy. Sheep provide wool, that's 100 % profit. Do you think that farmers would treat "nice" sheep for just 10 % of profit?
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As long as we have domestic animals, there will allways be meat, skin, wool, eggs etcetera that someone should do something with. Because the alternative is to let animals die by themselves and then be eaten by maggots. And no. Getting a world without domestic animals are not a good idea. To have them in huge industry-farms are a bad idea, but there will allways be places and circumstances when animals are the right choice.
World without enslaved (domestic) animals is a very good idea - it is surviving idea, Erik Granqvist. Just stop breeding them. Cruelty is never right choice.
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LOL the "vegan leather" thing has been a thorn in my side since the first time I saw it.
People are idiots. I wish I could wear wool but it makes me itch. I just bought a pair of Skechers arch fit and it had a tag that said VEGAN.🤦🏻♀️ My husband asked if I was supposed to wear them or eat them!😂
What about making leather out of you, you cruel, hateful, evil moron... yes you Bill.
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Do you think real leather is better? Read this please. Horrifying. https://www.featureshoot.com/2021/06/one-photographer-covers-the-brutal-cost-of-leather-production-in-india/
Not horrifying to those cruel "good" people who down-voted Suzy's comment. They refuse to have anything to do with compassion.
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What do fake leather pants have to do with wool? I won't go, oh I'm not wearing plastic so I'll wear woolen pants instead. I don't like wool, because it itches and irritates my skin. I'll stick to my second hand leather and plastic, thanks. I will never buy new leather ever.
There's wool and wool. Scratchy wool, soft wool, smooth wool that almost feels like cotton... It's a matter of how it treated and woven. I work with textiles and you cannot imagine how soft some wool are. Maybe you're allergic so that's another thing, buy trust me, wool can be super soft.
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My mom doesn't wear wool because she is allergic to the things that wearable wool is treated with. She gets a rash where ever it touches her skin. But yes, sheep don't shed wool. In nearly all of human history, sheep have been with us, dependent on us, and to just not shear them is terrible cruelty.
Nicola, nobody is saying sheep shouldn't be sheared, they are sheared at farm animal sanctuaries. Just stop breeding animals to cruelly exploit them and brutally murder them.
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I have had a huge soft spot for animals my entire life, and dream of the day when none of them ever encounter inhumane treatment. I also have come to understand the logic behind things like culling herds of deer and other wild animals, so they don’t overproduce and end up starving, though I’d prefer some other, viable, alternative to hunting since a lot of hunters are not humane, nor are they good shots, and end up leaving wounded animals to suffer. Anyway, as long as an efficient use is made of the animal, after it is humanely killed, I have no objections. If a cow is raised in humane conditions, and is slaughtered without trauma and pain, I am just fine with the meat being used for food, the skin for leather, the entrails for pet food, and the bones for bone meal. I consider that efficient. Raising minks for nothing but their fur is not efficient. Bashing in the heads of baby seals for fur is the height of cruelty. We don’t need to wear fur anymore to stay warm.
AS yet there is nothing synthetic that comes close to the properties of fur as a protective garment. I agree that wearing exotic fur, or wearing it as a statement is unethical, but there's a reason indigenous people wear fur.
Load More Replies... Not to be "that guy," but isn't plastic a byproduct of oil, which formed from decomposing plants and animals, therefore, plastic is still made from animal bits?
If "vegan leather" is plastic, then it's not vegan at all. Plastic is made from oil, which used to be dinosaurs. What's the argument here? "They're already dead?"
So, these people decide not to wear wool because they don't like contributing to sheep cruelty. And suddenly 1- the sheep are going to die if not shorn (NO, the farmers will still shear them and then sell the wool) 2-the sheep industry is going to collapse (maybe eventually, but if it is based on genuine cruelty then it SHOULD collapse) and 3-they are contributing to the end of the planet via global warming (sure, but their contribution via clothing is considerably less than EVERYONE'S contribution from using oil for motor vehicles and plastic for a gazillion things in their daily life). Maybe, stop trashing vegans and get some balanced views instead. (No, I'm not a vegan.)
It's not about the not wearing wool, it's the misinformation. As you say, vegans say it's sheep cruelty to shear them; as it's proven in the article, it's actually cruel to *not* shear them. And meanwhile, instead of using the wool that's being produced to help sheep survive, vegans prefer plastic non-biodegradable clothing which is bad for the environment. Nobody's saying vegans are the worst polluters, but they're creating a new problem
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Sheep must be sheared otherwise they suffocate. I have a V-leather (plastic) jacket that I bought second-hand and while I like it, I would not spend the retail price for it. Buying used goods whenever possible is a great idea as it diminishes the need for new junk. HOWEVER, leather is NOT a byproduct of the meat industry. A simple search turned up quite a few links (not the detestable PETA) to disprove that.
This is bullshit. Watch professional sheep shearing competitions (and professional sheep shearing videos). Any shearer that tears up a sheep while shearing is not a professional and will not be returning to that farm. In fact, they will be stopped and removed from the process. Shearing sheep is, like any other profession, easier and quicker with practice. If you only shear two sheep twice a year it will take a long time. If you shear for a living and go from farm to farm, you can shear a sheep in less than a minute. That is your livelihood. You've got to be quick and efficient in order to get through an entire flock and move on to your next farm. You cannot waste 10 minutes per sheep when you're dealing with a flock of hundreds, maybe thousands, of sheep.
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One of the vegan arguments is that sheep farmers would cruelly rip the wool including skin off of the animals, basically skinning them alive. As if farmers would deliberately kill their livelyhood... This is about as intelligent as saying farmers kill their cows every morning in order to get to the milk...
Also, leather lasts far longer than PVC. I had some PVC boots, lasted about a year, but leather boots can last more like 20 years. I think that it is far more sustainable to use a byproduct of the meat industry (that'll keep going for a good while yet), than plastic that needs replacing more often, and does not biodegrade.
And people can also get a lot of second-hand leather goods, if they don't want to buy new leather goods.
Load More Replies... My brother has a genuine leather jacket and he is a vegan. He has had it since before he became vegan but he won't throw it away coz it just wastes the animal. He may as well keep it since it has already been purchased, so is no longer contributing to the leather industry. He won't donate it coz why should he get rid of a perfectly good jacket that again has already been made, been paid for etc so why does it matter who wears it. I hope I'm making sense. He won't go out and buy leather anymore.
That's very reasonable and is the approach most vegans I know chose, too. Throwing stuff away won't help anything, while not buying it anymore sure does what it aims at.
Load More Replies... As a lifelong vegetarian and a farm kid: Vinyl/plastic BAD. Cow gonna be eaten by someone anyway, let's use the scraps (hide included). Given how much beef people eat, we'll have good leather for a long while yet, and, yes, leather is better. Care for it, and it lasts decades for *use*. Plastic/vinyl just lasts decades in landfills...
Loo Dominix, what about NOT to eat cows (any sentient beings) and stop unconscionable animal suffering, unavoidable destruction of our planet - the destruction of wild lands and wildlife and thus stop emergence of future deadly, ever more potent viruses and bacteria???? What about that???
Load More Replies... Many people do not realize how damaging all plastic is to the environment and how potentially damaging it can be to the person wearing the plastic. In our emergency services class we had a special class just on dealing with people who were wearing clothing which had plastics in it who suffered from burns. No joke there’s nothing good about this stuff
Exactly. Guess what leather and wool don't do? Melt to your skin! Leather can actually save your skin by acting as a second layer, taking the worst of the heat (burns) or damage (road burn).
Load More Replies... Solution: Make terms like "cruelty-free" and "sustainable" a legal, certifiable term that is only usable if a product/company meets specific criteria. Similar to 'gluten-free,' 'halal,' or even 'champagne.'
There's one thing this post is missing. Peta occasionally admits that not shearing sheep is cruel...... but if you push them, they will tell you that all sheep, and all livestock and pets, should be killed. ...///... Remember that these are the people who sent "couples" to adopt puppies and kittens from shelters so that they could kill them. No, I'm not kidding.
A lot of people here don't seem to realize that most of their clothing is also plastic and its production very bad for the environment. So don't feel too superior for not buying fake leather. Natural fibres and leather have their downsides too, they are just different from the downsides artificial fabrics have. The best thing anyone can do for the environment and animal welfare is to wear the clothes and shoes they already own for as long as possible and to not succumb to the fast fashion trend of buyinga new wardrobe every year.
Sadly this isn’t the only example that sometimes the green solution is not better. Google how we get car batteries for electric cars. Besides being terrible for the environment it has created an entire industry of child labor. There are attempts now to change how the batteries are made. However my point is we need to be careful that the alternative is not worse. Sometimes it’s ok to say we need to move away from xyz but we don’t have a good alternative yet let’s develop one.
But, it's NOT a green solution. Lot's of us have never been under any illusion.
Load More Replies... Pleather... it's called pleather (plastic leather) and it's disgusting, even when styled by a famous designer.
I have a vintage pleather motorcycle jacket that I bought second-hand. It cannot breathe and it squeaks anytime I move. It's about as comfortable as a black garbage bag. Real leather is vastly superior.
Load More Replies... Most vegans I associate with are also environmentalists opposed to the stupid use of plastics (petroleum is a limited resource better used in medical materials, not every stupid single use package and certainly not BURNED). There are SO MANY PROBLEMS with plastics! Plants are the way to go for many replacement materials (don't forget Dow Chemical is a major player in making pot illegal; hemp fiber competed with their synthetic ropes). If people are marketing plastic clothes and shoes as vegan, that's not something to blame on vegans. That's something to blame on marketing and "greenwashing" capitalism. When people take on the vegan position, many of them need time to really figure out all the many products that are animal-based and the environmental issues. Not everyone does. It's really annoying to constantly have vegan hit pieces on this site acting like every vegan is the same; like we're some monolithic group. It's bigotry that even self-professed liberals are happy to engage in.
Hating vegans and Peta is what all those haters live for, those who do nothing for animal protection and environment, those who are causing all the pain, suffering,and destruction. Simply appalling!
Load More Replies... Uh, no. My Vegetarian Shoes (boots actually) are NOT made of plastic. They're made from a material made from plants that looks and feels and functions very much like leather.
Did you read the article? Here, let me help you: "While it can be made from more natural resources like pineapple leaves, cork, and apple peels, it is most often produced from two different plastic polymers; polyurethane (PU) and polyvinyl chloride (PVC) which are so popular due to their wrinkled texture, giving the effect of real leather, according to PETA."
Load More Replies... I wish the writers of these articles would actually speak with the market/audience they are aimed at. I am vegan, I know many vegans, none of us would wear these or 'leather' trousers in a million years!!! They are aimed at a very niche market - the same really as the ones they are copying. Xx
This is an odd mixture of half-understood facts, illegitimate generalisations, misunderstanding of economics, and whataboutism. There is no vegan leather, but which material is really sustainable AND ethical is neither to be answered in a series of Tweets nor in a BP posting. Bashing people for their desire not to exploit animals is sleazy, though. BP would better foster a reasonable discussion on sustainable lifestyles than to shame vegans and their occasional antics. They make easy enemies, but are they really enemies?
Greenwashing has become an epidemic and people really need to stop. This is right up there with buying 'ugly' produce which is a total farce. 'Ugly' produce gets used in other ways...ie 'ugly' apples become sauce or juice etc. They are almost never thrown away. And claiming it's green by not wasting is utter BS. When you order boxes of ugly produce you've just added food miles and unnecessary packaging to something that didn't even need it. STOP IT!
I agree with this post, but I'm not a fan of the fact you quoted PETA as a source.
That's like using the Daily Mail as a newspaper.
Load More Replies... A lot of confused arguments here...Some people are vegan only for environmental reasons, some because they don't want to be responsible for animal deaths. Fake leather definitely fits the second, even if not the first, so I don't think labelling it 'cruelty free' is wrong. And as for the wool thing, who genuinely thinks that buying less wool will lead to unsheared sheep roaming around overheating? Like the farmers would still go to the trouble of raising them but then not shear them...
I think labeling plastic leather as 'cruelty free' is a bit dishonest.
Load More Replies... Yes vegan leather is plastic, it has a short lifespan compared to leather and the origin of the plastic could not be more damaging. But there are alternatives you know a mexican company called desserto makes leather from cactus, in a sustainable way. Still the best way to actually help is triying to make anything you buy last the longer you can, one of the biggest actors in the whole ecological damage is fast fashion and fake plastic leather, with the short lifespan that it has plays exactly in that category.
I would guess that the best for the environment would be to use what's already there, so buy second hand!
Pvc is 40% petroleum. Petroleum oil is an animal product even if they are long dead. so how can this be vegan?
Petroleum oil is an animal product??? What animal it comes from?
Load More Replies... It's complicated. Leather is not just a bi-product of the meat industry, and sometimes the meat is a bi-product of the leather industry. The softest leathers come from calves, or even almost born calves. Sheep in large wool factory farms live a miserable existence. I think vegan leather is definitely misleading, but the notion that leather is just saving something from the landfill is also misleading.
I don't think I can buy leather with a guilt-free conscience but I love mushroom leather and pineapple leather!
Don't forget all that synthetic plush we all fell in love with is polluting everything. Microfibers are turning up in rivers, lakes, food, ..how? every time you launder it, it sheds. All those microfibers go into the water system. Then because they are so light they can become airborne and show up hundreds of miles in water systems nowhere near civilization. I've loved plush, but it's turned out to be a terrible thing for the environment. Better to have wool than that plush.
As someone who can't wear any kind of animal hair, not even cashmere, I'm sticking to my fleece jackets. I've go some that are more than 20 years old and are still in terrific condition.
Load More Replies... Perfection isn't possible. Big surprise. I don't like how they include "under capitalism" in the title. I'm pretty sure that is not the issue.
It's exactly the issue, in the sense that every purchase we make is in some way connected to the system that perpetuates exploitation of workers, local and global pollution and animal cruelty, though. Our "choice" as consumers is at best a choice to do less harm.
Load More Replies... Can we add "green" cars to the list? Plastics, metal and perhaps more worrying is the need for rare earths in their construction....
Electric cars aren't eco until their power source is.
Load More Replies... I knit and crochet. I'd love to use real wool but it's stupid expensive! I just can't afford projects in real wool.
Some dedicated people buy a spinning wheel, a carder and a skein and make their own wool. If you are really into knitting it could be a good long term investment to make and a new skill to learn. If you know a groomer or someone with a dog with long hair and undercoat you can ask them to keep the shedding fur (only the back, sides and front fur). I have a finnish lapphund and the wool is pretty great without any harm done.
Load More Replies... Plastic industry is a huge issue, but it bothers me a bit how they made comparisons to leather and wool - as if it was needed. You can argue against plastic without the comparison, and because the issues regarding plastic, leather an wool are so different from one another, we can't really tackle the topic in a few short tweets like that. (Especially when the argument aren't even carefully constructed: Vegans don't want sheeps to be not sheared or them to be released to the wild. They just want us to stop breeding more of them, because wool industry can be cruel too.) While leather is a byproduct and lasts way longer than most faux leather, it's still awful for the environment, too, because of the tanning process. All textiles etc. have their own issues, and in many cases they can't be compared.
I've worked on sheep stations, during shearing season, it's brutal & traumatic, many sheep die, get hamstrung & other horrific injuries. The entire industry needs a shake up. Don't even get me started on mulsing or castrations, there are no painkillers used & it's awful. I agree that plastic is also bad but at this point, the main focus should be on treating farm animals humanely, then we could all agree that wool is superior to any other oil based products.
natural wool and leather are far far more eco friendly than the so called "vegan" alternative. first of all, they last longer. I had leather jackets for years, some were still in good condition and were also given away. You can dye it and make it look like new again. Natural wool has this very nice property of not retaining smells, especially merino. Also lasts a long time if taken care of. The plastic alternatives stink and get ruined really fast so yo have to throw them away and change them more often. How is that better?
I saw a twitter thread recently where someone was berating vegans for wearing wool because "you have to kill the sheep." Someone replied: "You don't know how wool works, do you?" Sometimes I think PETA has done far more harm than they ever did good.
So how wool "works"??? Sheep are tortured all their lives and end up in slaughter houses or suffer being transported alive by ship from Australia to Muslim countries. If they survive the agonizing journey, a "nice" slaughter is awaiting them!!! That's how wool works, Easily Excitable Panda. I don't think I know that Peta haters are doing a lot of harm and no good what so ever.
Load More Replies... I'm with what Shepherd said. We bred sheep and cattle and horses and dogs and goats and cats and birds and ...... Sure, none of us did it our selves. But don't we bear some responsibility for what those species have become on our behalf? And plastics are killing us and our planet not so slowly as people may believe.
For a bit of balance - there are practices used in some parts of the wool industry that are cruel and do cause suffering to the animals, so it's meaningful to speak of "cruelty-free" wool. I would expect that to mean decent living and transport conditions for the sheep, no mulesing, welfare-driven shearing processes and independent inspections of all of the above. But not all wool farmers use cruel processes. Unlike killing animals for meat, there's nothing inherent in well-managed wool production that harms the animals. Ironically, this is about the only example of "welfarism" in farming that I can think of which actually makes a difference to the animals, as neither they nor their offspring need to die for the process to work as intended. (Keeping yaks for milk in the Himilayas might be another one? Pretty hard to intensively farm yaks, apparently.) EDIT: Just thought of another one! Ahimsa silk (but not conventional silk) where the product is harvested after the moths have fledged and left the coccoon. It's an animal product so not vegan, but vastly less harmful to the environment (and, likely, local workers) than a synthetic equivalent.
SloeLoris, every animal used for what ever they are raised and farmed, end up in the slaughterhouses, they do not go to a nice retirement and die peacefully.
Load More Replies... I bought a purse made out of vegan leather - it's got a cork like texture and made from mushrooms. Seems a lot better for sustainability and the environment in general than plastic. But I'd like to know if that's a wrong assumption?
I love my leather jackets. Warm, durable, protective and I have worn some of them for decades. Add a removeable wool insulator and you have a year round jacket.
.... and you have a year round misery and painful death..... oh, yea, that's what animals get, right LivingTheDream??? What a dream you created for them.
Load More Replies... There is "vegan leather" made of stuff like pineapple or other plant materials. So not necessarily polluting the planet more. As for the wool issue, yes, it is cruel not to shear the sheep and they are not hurt by sheraing them, when done properly. However there is animal cruelty involved if sheep farmers start to cut pieces of sheep's behinds to avoid insect problems ((it's called museling, google it).
It depends on the wool. Not all wool is scratchy. It depends on the fiber thickness, length and crimp (curl pattern). The smaller the micron count (diameter) of the fibers, the less scratchy the wool will be. If you have a thick fiber that is long, it won't be as scratchy as short thinner fibers. The scratch comes from the fiber ends poking out. Longer fibers tend to spin smoother than shorter fibers. Then you get into the crimp pattern and that's way more info than you want. LOL
Load More Replies... Also very important quality of wool, it is pretty much the most naturally fire retardant natural fibre. Synthetics are the exact opposite, highly flammable/meltable.
The number of times I've had disagreements with people advocating how eco friendly they are for buying "vegan" leather and claiming that it's better than all leathers and animal products like wool! These people I've come across seem to think all leather comes from animals locked in tiny cages. Boy do I have news for you! Ever heard of roadkill leather? Deadstock leather? Leather from the food industry? These animals are here because we introduced them thousands of years ago to feed us and clothe us. As long as you try to buy wool, leather and fur that hasn't come from an animal that suffered its far more eco friendly than "vegan" leather
Boy do I have news for you Olivia Payne-Alatsari, it's cruelty!! Did you hear about factory farms? If you want to wear other sentient creature's skin that poor innocent being is murdered!! Sheep do not just get a nice haircut like you do at a hairdresser, and at the end they are murdered at slaughterhouses, all animals exploited for what ever reason do.
Load More Replies... Wool is about 10% of a sheep farmer's income. But you can fleece the sheep twice a year (autumn wool is better quality than spring wool, at least here in Norway where sheep go out all summer and stay in all winter), but only skin them once.
What a hell that means, Zillboy. Sheep provide wool, that's 100 % profit. Do you think that farmers would treat "nice" sheep for just 10 % of profit?
Load More Replies... As long as we have domestic animals, there will allways be meat, skin, wool, eggs etcetera that someone should do something with. Because the alternative is to let animals die by themselves and then be eaten by maggots. And no. Getting a world without domestic animals are not a good idea. To have them in huge industry-farms are a bad idea, but there will allways be places and circumstances when animals are the right choice.
World without enslaved (domestic) animals is a very good idea - it is surviving idea, Erik Granqvist. Just stop breeding them. Cruelty is never right choice.
Load More Replies... LOL the "vegan leather" thing has been a thorn in my side since the first time I saw it.
People are idiots. I wish I could wear wool but it makes me itch. I just bought a pair of Skechers arch fit and it had a tag that said VEGAN.🤦🏻♀️ My husband asked if I was supposed to wear them or eat them!😂
What about making leather out of you, you cruel, hateful, evil moron... yes you Bill.
Load More Replies... Do you think real leather is better? Read this please. Horrifying. https://www.featureshoot.com/2021/06/one-photographer-covers-the-brutal-cost-of-leather-production-in-india/
Not horrifying to those cruel "good" people who down-voted Suzy's comment. They refuse to have anything to do with compassion.
Load More Replies... What do fake leather pants have to do with wool? I won't go, oh I'm not wearing plastic so I'll wear woolen pants instead. I don't like wool, because it itches and irritates my skin. I'll stick to my second hand leather and plastic, thanks. I will never buy new leather ever.
There's wool and wool. Scratchy wool, soft wool, smooth wool that almost feels like cotton... It's a matter of how it treated and woven. I work with textiles and you cannot imagine how soft some wool are. Maybe you're allergic so that's another thing, buy trust me, wool can be super soft.
Load More Replies... My mom doesn't wear wool because she is allergic to the things that wearable wool is treated with. She gets a rash where ever it touches her skin. But yes, sheep don't shed wool. In nearly all of human history, sheep have been with us, dependent on us, and to just not shear them is terrible cruelty.
Nicola, nobody is saying sheep shouldn't be sheared, they are sheared at farm animal sanctuaries. Just stop breeding animals to cruelly exploit them and brutally murder them.
Load More Replies... I have had a huge soft spot for animals my entire life, and dream of the day when none of them ever encounter inhumane treatment. I also have come to understand the logic behind things like culling herds of deer and other wild animals, so they don’t overproduce and end up starving, though I’d prefer some other, viable, alternative to hunting since a lot of hunters are not humane, nor are they good shots, and end up leaving wounded animals to suffer. Anyway, as long as an efficient use is made of the animal, after it is humanely killed, I have no objections. If a cow is raised in humane conditions, and is slaughtered without trauma and pain, I am just fine with the meat being used for food, the skin for leather, the entrails for pet food, and the bones for bone meal. I consider that efficient. Raising minks for nothing but their fur is not efficient. Bashing in the heads of baby seals for fur is the height of cruelty. We don’t need to wear fur anymore to stay warm.
AS yet there is nothing synthetic that comes close to the properties of fur as a protective garment. I agree that wearing exotic fur, or wearing it as a statement is unethical, but there's a reason indigenous people wear fur.
Load More Replies... Not to be "that guy," but isn't plastic a byproduct of oil, which formed from decomposing plants and animals, therefore, plastic is still made from animal bits?
If "vegan leather" is plastic, then it's not vegan at all. Plastic is made from oil, which used to be dinosaurs. What's the argument here? "They're already dead?"
So, these people decide not to wear wool because they don't like contributing to sheep cruelty. And suddenly 1- the sheep are going to die if not shorn (NO, the farmers will still shear them and then sell the wool) 2-the sheep industry is going to collapse (maybe eventually, but if it is based on genuine cruelty then it SHOULD collapse) and 3-they are contributing to the end of the planet via global warming (sure, but their contribution via clothing is considerably less than EVERYONE'S contribution from using oil for motor vehicles and plastic for a gazillion things in their daily life). Maybe, stop trashing vegans and get some balanced views instead. (No, I'm not a vegan.)
It's not about the not wearing wool, it's the misinformation. As you say, vegans say it's sheep cruelty to shear them; as it's proven in the article, it's actually cruel to *not* shear them. And meanwhile, instead of using the wool that's being produced to help sheep survive, vegans prefer plastic non-biodegradable clothing which is bad for the environment. Nobody's saying vegans are the worst polluters, but they're creating a new problem
Load More Replies... Sheep must be sheared otherwise they suffocate. I have a V-leather (plastic) jacket that I bought second-hand and while I like it, I would not spend the retail price for it. Buying used goods whenever possible is a great idea as it diminishes the need for new junk. HOWEVER, leather is NOT a byproduct of the meat industry. A simple search turned up quite a few links (not the detestable PETA) to disprove that.
This is bullshit. Watch professional sheep shearing competitions (and professional sheep shearing videos). Any shearer that tears up a sheep while shearing is not a professional and will not be returning to that farm. In fact, they will be stopped and removed from the process. Shearing sheep is, like any other profession, easier and quicker with practice. If you only shear two sheep twice a year it will take a long time. If you shear for a living and go from farm to farm, you can shear a sheep in less than a minute. That is your livelihood. You've got to be quick and efficient in order to get through an entire flock and move on to your next farm. You cannot waste 10 minutes per sheep when you're dealing with a flock of hundreds, maybe thousands, of sheep.
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