“Just Innocent Playground Fun”: Concerned Mother Turns To The Internet After Being Blamed For Taking Child’s Understanding Of Consent Too Seriously
Interview
“The times they are a-changin’,” Bob Dylan famously belts out. Although written for a completely different time—the tumultuous and divisive ’60s—these words make more and more sense as the generations pass by. Back then, it was gay rights (barely existent but slowly gaining traction) that society had a hard time adjusting to. Today, it’s the importance of affirmative consent that people are still coming to grips with.
Traditionally, you may have heard this term tossed around when discussing sexual activity to which both parties have to agree (“no means no“). These days, however, parents and elementary school teachers try to teach kids—very curious little creatures—that consent is much more than a verbal agreement. Something they should pay attention to and notice when they’re a bit older and swarming with hormones. The problem: not every adult views consent as important of a topic as you might think.
As this parent shares in their ‘Am I The [Jerk]‘ story, they learned this the hard way after being accused of blowing “innocent playground fun” out of proportion. Although, all this concerned parent did was talk to their 9-year-old son that it’s not okay to touch other kids, especially those of opposite gender, without first asking for their permission.
Wishing to learn what other parents have to say about this, the author turned to the trusted ‘Am I The [Jerk]’ community to seek perspective.
Teaching children about the importance of others’ personal space is an important part of parenting
Image credits: Kelly Sikkema
While there is still confusion surrounding the misconceptions of affirmative consent — for example, what actions indicate a mutual agreement allowing a person to proceed with sexual activities — more and more adults (a promising 88% to be precise) agree that this is something kids should be taught at schools. After all, 1-in-6 boys and 1-in-4 girls experience some form of sexual abuse before they turn 18, studies have found.
In order to learn more about affirmative consent, we have reached out to Jayneen Sanders, the author of ‘Let’s Talk About Body Boundaries, Consent and Respect’ and a former elementary school teacher. Addressing concerns some parents have about teaching their offspring from the get-go, Jayneen reassures us that there’s no such thing as “the perfect age” for teaching children consent.
“We can actually teach our children about consent from birth,” Melbourne-based author told Bored Panda. “When they’re still very little and nonverbal, we can tell them what we’re doing with their body: for example, as you’re washing them or changing their nappy, you can say, ‘This is your leg.’ Or, ‘I’m just going to lift up your bottom now because I need to put the nappy on.'”
Sanders understands that without being able to express their thoughts by speaking, they can’t give you consent just yet. But that doesn’t mean you cannot subconsciously start setting the foundation.
After being blamed for blowing “innocent playground fun” out of proportion, this parent shared their story with the ‘AITA’ community
People were unanimous in reassuring this parent that they are doing everything just fine
In fact, Sanders believes that the foundation for the understanding of sexual consent starts when parents teach their kids firm boundaries. “A good example of that is when your little one takes something without your permission. So, before taking a cookie from the cookie jar, they should first ask you, right?” she explained. She says that similar to a person’s body, having an understanding of boundaries, or what a person can and can’t do without there being any consequences, is as important to be able to read a person’s body language well.
In the end, the author didn’t expect their story to receive so much attention and thanked everyone for their say
466Kviews
Share on Facebook
NTA at all. The son isn't too young to understand about asking first. As long as the conversation is age appropriate (and it was) very young children will see it purely from their perspective, the husband is skewing it from HIS. Makes me wonder a little if he's got a slightly guilty conscience. Often people get angry when things hit a nerve. I don't mean he's ever done anything deliberately wrong, but how we approach teaching boys about seeking consent is definitely a change and only for the better.
Even very young children are capable of grasping that we ask before we touch people - not just girls but any other sentient human being whose space you're in who can exercise bodily autonomy (ie do you want a fist bump, wave, high five or a hug before we leave today, etc.?) To be honest, I'm actually surprised and a bit disheartened that this is kiddos first exposure to the concept of bodily autonomy.
Load More Replies...
Dad's calling his own self out and doesn't even know it as it sounds like he's trying to excuse his own behavior.
He's probably coming from a 'issues are only discussed once there's a problem' angle, and that's not helpful in preventing the problem here. That's all.
Load More Replies...
One should never touch anyone without their consent unless it's some kind of emergency.
Don't agree, if you can't even touch family members or close friends casually, then that would be a sad world.
Load More Replies...
What if girls touch inappropriately? It should not just be for boys, girls are aggressive too
it is an important thing to talk about i completely agree thats a good age to do an explain it like you did
I taught both my sons about consent at an even younger age. It started with their own body autonomy, "it's okay if you don't want a hug" and also they were told to ask others for what physical contact they wanted. They were toddlers. I now have two teenage young men with healthy respect for personal space for everyone.
NTA. The sooner kids understand, as best they can for their developmental stage, the *better*.
Consent should be taught from an early age to both boys and girls. We've done it with our kids. They now understand that they don't touch anyone without consent and no one gets to touch them without consent.
i do that with my 1.5yr old daughter. I ask for a hug (verbally or holding out my arms) and if she says no it's no. But if i directly after ask her if i need to carry her around she most of the time says yes and jumps in my arms.
Load More Replies... I guess times have changed, because when I was 9 years old I was going to playgrounds with my friends and without my parents.
It's crazy to me that this isn't a normal discussion happening in every household with children? That's the real problem here. That this should be bare minimum parenting. Not saying that she's wrong or anything of the sort. She's awesome for doing this n speaking up. But I'm saying that THATS how low the bar is... that doing something that should be "the norm" is praised... when this should just be an everyday thing. It's like, I love Harry Styles, I think he's amazing. But a few years back he got all of this praise for asking "is it okay if I touch your hair" or "is okay if I kiss you" etc. while shooting one of his music videos. The director would be like "touch her hair" and he'd stop and ask if it was okay. And everyone was like "see this is what a gentleman looks like! This is why we love him" and it made me think... "omg That's how low the bar is for men... that being decent human beings is so unheard of that THIS is being celebrated when it should be the norm"
I think the only thing that needs to be added is that to discuss level of comfort with the one being touched. I had a friend ask me if he could give me a hug. I said ok. After a really nice hug I told him "That was nice. You can hug me anytime." So any time we saw each other it was a great big hug. Then my sister, who is 4 years older but looks like my twin, came up to me at my house and said "Who is Freddie?" I said he was a friend. She says "Well I met him at McDonald's and he said "hey you" and gave me a big hug. I asked who he was and introduced myself and he turned beet red." I laughed. I said "What did you think of him?" She said "He gives good hugs!"
I think its great and don't see any issues with that talk at all. I'm surprised someone would find that offensive? I have a 9yo son aswell (and 8yo daughter) and they have both talked about this quite a lot in school recently (regardless of gender obviously). We continue the discussion at home and it gives an opportunity to talk about other questions aswell.
Honestly 9 is a little late to be discussing this. As soon as they're old enough to understand they should know that unless there is a good reason (like a medical professional giving treatment) no one should touch you without consent and vice versa. And yes that includes if grandma demands a hug and you don't feel like it right then.
Setting behaviours and boundaries at a young age will set them up for positive situation later in life, clearly the father hadn't been taught this yet. What is innocent fun for one can be uncomfortable for another especially in a group where being seen as different from the rest can go against you.
Concent is actually jot just limited to humans. Most animals require concent to touch! Would your husband walk up to a strange horse and jump on it? How about a random dog wandering the street? Or even the household cat who is sleeping in the sun? All would be surprised, and potentially dangerous without concent.
I have a dog who is scarred and clearly a victim of abuse in some form. If someone goes to stroke him and he doesn't realise it's coming, he flinches on contact. As I want him to feel good about being petted I always talk to him calmly first and let him see what I'm going to do.
Load More Replies...
This ia actually an excellent learning example. Is there evidence that people (male or female or LGBTQ) are either sexual predators or not...until they act as predators? I think not. Sexual attraction is a wonderful and necessary thing, but consent must be considered early...very early. the problem here is the father. It is HIS job to help his son learn how to channel his sexual interest (yes when he says she is his girlfriend...it is the start) and become aware of consent. Yes the father is failing to be a good father.
NTA. sounds like dad needs a lesson on how to treat women since mom is trying to raise a son who is aware that girls don't always want to be touched without consent. any man who thinks it is fine to touch a woman whenever he wants needs this lesson. i thank the heavens that if there was one thing that i taught my now 42 yr old son is that he is to respect women.
NTA. Teaching your kids socially acceptable behavior so that they can function as future adults is literally part of the parents job description.
Detfintely NTA. I work in a primary school and I remind the ALL the kids that they should keep their hands to themselves and that no one has the right to touch them without their consent. If I see a child I think needs physical comfort, I ALWAYS ask them first if that is what they want. Most of the time, they do but occasionally they don't and it's so important to respect that.
When I was a kid, back in the 1970s (and you can see this in movies): If a person wanted to put their arm around someone, they did. If a person wanted to kiss someone, they did. And it wasn't just guys. When I was in university, a woman I knew suddenly and unexpectedly grabbed me and kissed me passionately! But it's not the 1970s anymore. How people feel about being touched or kissed hasn't changed! What's changed is that we're more AWARE now that a lot of times, touching or kissing wasn't welcome, and a lot of people felt pressure not to say anything because of making things "awkward", etc etc etc. The fact that we want people to ask permission before touching someone is progress. It's an acknowledgement that we care about how the other person feels. Sure, we might lose out on some happy surprises! But we also no longer are subjected to unwanted "surprises".
The problem is, if her son doesn’t learn that it’s not okay to touch people without their permission, he in fact IS a predator in the making. This boy will grow into a preteen who will believe lifting his classmates’ skirts is the best joke ever, then teenager who will think groping his classmates is “just fun”, and later into an adult who will think that slapping waitress’ butt is “just guys being guys” and howling at a woman from the car window is a compliment. Just because you don’t assault someone doesn’t mean you can’t be a predator, and it’s never too early to learn how not to be one.
Of course we should be teaching our children about respecting other people's boundaries from a young age. And, while 'all consent matters', let's be honest that the pressure will be on heterosexual young men to specifically indulge in non-consensual touch of women. To counteract this social message it is necessary to specifically talk about this one area, outside of the usual manners we teach. Boys need to recognise when the message is being pushed at them, otherwise how will they know it is incorrect? My only caveat in situations like the above is to mention that of course we don't always ask first before we do things like pat someone's arm, put an arm around them, etc, sometimes it happens so instinctively. But what we need to be highly aware of is body language that means 'I don't want this' and to retract quickly. This is something boys very much need to be taught. Things like 'if you're hugging a girl and her arms remain hanging at her side, she's not into it'
NO ONE is entitled to touch anyone else. It's so heteronormative to assume the entitled messaging is only restricted to boys - I wish other girls didn't touch me either much of the time, the pervasive attitude of 'we're all girls here and that means you should be fine with it' is awful. We shouldn't accept nonsense from anyone, unwanted touching is UNWANTED, even if coupled with 'you should lighten up, have some fun, you need a hug'. This sort of thing feels inescapable when you're not-straight.
Load More Replies...
you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequences for there behavior
Never too young to have this conversation. Children need to understand both sides and to understand that they too have the right to decide who can touch them and when. There’s that great song for younger children “Pantosaurus and the Pants Song.” The mum here is just teaching her child to be responsible for their actions and to be respectful towards others.
NTA, your husband is or at minimum is just ignorant about appropriate behavior. Ask your husband how he would feel if your son's male coach put his hand on your son's upper inner thigh while talking to him. I bet that will wake your husband up...
In college I had a boyfriend who always asked permission to put his arm around me and he always really listened to me. I have never felt so respected and cherished in my life.
I did this 25 years ago! I mean to have to teach the asking and giving of consent. You have to empower the ones who may be giving consent. I did my three at the time they were f9, m5,m4. I had them all go and put on their bathing suits. When they came downstairs I explained to them as a group that ESPECIALLY the parts of the body covered by the suits were there for them to have say so over, and that was final. They could tell o me or dad or grandma about anyone who was making them feel weird. But I also told them they had no business handling all over other people. Yes they were young, but guess what, twice, there were instances that needed that information. And the self confidence our talks gave them to overcome pressure.
Yeah, NTA at all. I'd be concerned about the husband letting it slide, actually, because it's way too often that consent to being touched is blown off because 'they're just kids' and then when they grow up they're unable to set boundaries or communicate clearly when it's not okay to touch them. And if people never learn to respect other people's space, they could grow up to be predators.
Teaching your kid about consent (if fine correctly) will also ensure they know no one should touch them without their consent. Include what to do if they see it are involved in something that makes them uncomfortable or violates consent and you're protecting your kid. There's a great video to start a conversation https://youtu.be/h3nhM9UlJjc
9 year old son has a girlfriend, I think you were a little late to consent talk. But NTA, it must be taught early on. I was touched inappropriately when I was 5ish, I immediately told mum. When I was 8 and on a school trip, we went to cafe, we sat at a table with two friends and older man sat next to us at other table with no drinks or food, and started rubbing my classmates knee. She smiled 🙈😱😱 I asked her what is he doing, and called teacher immediately. Absolutely teach children about consent as early as appropriate. Reminder: boys fall for predators at early ages, in teenage years girls are more likely to be abused. Please please protect your children from outside predators. Husband needs to open up and realise children must know about human anatomy and consent, it's imperative from health point of view and safety. You teach them so they know to recognise predatory behaviour to protect themselves and others. For this they need to know their own consent boundaries!
Well considering I am a woman who was date raped six times in my youth over a ten year period, and molested a few more times, I think you did a fab job talking to him. No time like the present! Thank you for setting him straight. Sensitivity training is Number ONE in my book. If we could be more present to teach boys what they need to learn could save the world.
you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequences for there behavior
I have this talk with 9 year olds all of the time-in the classroom or on the playground. You can tell those who have never had this conversation before. You can also tell the boys who have parents who have told them they CAN do whatever they want.
If you don't teach your sons about consent THEY ARE predators in the making. That's why we keep saying men are socially conditioned to cross womens boundaries. You have to TEACH them to act differently, otherwise they won't know and won't see the problem. NTA all the way.
Another vote for "Saint" but I'd be having a serious conversation with her husband because he clearly overreacted. I wish more parents would drum this into their boys (and their girls as well, as unwarranted physical touching is not on from either side). With all the things you see in the press about the steps women need to take in order to be 'safe' and as the father of a daughter, I just roll my eyes and wish that mothers / fathers would educate their sons better and bring them up to treat women with respect
At one time it was considered alright for a boy to pull a girls plaits, or give her a thump on the shoulder to show her that he liked her. Boys were supposed to be big and tough, big boys don't cry. Girls to be meek and submissive. If they complained that a boy pulled their hair, oh he just likes you. Girls name called and the person who received was told sticks and stones etc. I guess what we need to teach is to respect each other. That Mum is doing a good job
Every child no matter what the age needs to know what is good touch and bad touch. It protects them from both bad touch and accusations. It's as simple as saying 'Can I hug you?'
I teach my 11 yr old daughter consent for everyone & every gender.
Consent is sexy and teaching children when they're young that consent is the norm is the only way we're going to see a change. Bravo to the OP for raising a good kid.
you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequence for there behavior
Yo this is based. I wish my mom had taught me this when I was his age because I am autistic and did not realize I was making girls uncomfortable with my behavior.
This is one of the AITA stories where I wonder about how it is presented. I support the idea of her having a conversation with her son about consent. I just wonder if her interpretation of how the conversation went is accurate. Maybe it wasn't just a casual conversation like she presented it. You could have a message of "I'm sure what you did was harmless, but you need to be careful in the future, just in case next time isn't harmless and you don't notice. It is important to be aware of these things". And you could have a message of "What you did was horrible, and you are a bad person for doing it. But now you know, so we can improve in the future" -- Yeah I'm sure she didn't literally say the second one, but she could have implied it with her choice of words and tone of voice. -- Note I'm not saying that she DID to this, but this is my problem with the AITA posts, where we get one person's interpretation of their actions. Almost every person who IS a jerk, thinks otherwise
A reasonable point. Though for this one I don't think it seems that likely. She had already had this conversation with her older children, two girls, and her husband had been fine with that. So she's had experience at having this conversation. Plus, while again it is her reporting how it went, her son wasn't upset. The only one upset here was her husband. He's reacting differently when she's talking with her boy about this - though he claims 'too young and an inappropriate moment'. Why does he see it that way? He's saying she might have made the son feel bad but it seems more that she made the husband feel bad and I wonder if it touched a nerve. Nine is definitely not too young, a lot of girls start their periods at nine and puberty is right around the corner. As her girls were older I can't help but feel if anything they're leaving it too late.
Load More Replies...
I don't think your the AH but.... did you have the same conversation with your daughters too? About them getting consent before touching someone?
So many of the problems with sexist roles are attributable to socialization. When inappropriate behaviors are not acknowledged as inappropriate, then they are perceived as acceptable...then it goes from one level to another...and to another. Appropriate gender roles MUST be reinforced as early as possible, particularly for males, since we are often socialized to be sexually dominant. the father is totally wrong, and that is soooo sad. It is HIS job to help his son learn appropriate gender roles...it is HIS job. But he fails, because no one helped to guide him when he was young.
Uhm, is this seriously what we're doing now? "May I lightly brush against your leg with mine while we watch this movie?" Maybe fill out a form while we're at it? Jeez.
NTA but this is kinda woke. I mean he's 9 y old. Doesn't even know what the word means. I agree with both parents on certain levels. I understand her intentions but it's a bit early.
Girls on average start puberty at 11 and boys at 12. At the age of 8 there are often signs in girls that puberty is starting. The girl needs him to know, even if you feel he doesn't need to. Though I disagree wholeheartedly. He should know for his own sake that he can say no to someone touching him. Parents who wrap children up in cotton wool and don't tell them in some weird, old-fashioned mistaken belief they are protecting their 'innocence' are more likely to end up with a child who doesn't realise when someone does something wrong to them. That's not a risk worth taking. As long as the message is age appropriate and the child understands how it fits in their world, then it can keep them safe. Nothing even slightly woke about it. Woke, by the way, means alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism.
Load More Replies...
On the fence on this. We’re making some stuff that’s been ignored or neglected into serious issues and that’s good. There is too much of a good thing, though. I agree with the father that the question was going at it from a difficult angle for the boy. Ask: „how did your girlfriend like that?“ next time. It opens the discussion and the boy can say:“she loved it“ - because, maybe she did. If he doesn’t know, ask how he thinks he could know whether she likes to be cuddled. Sometimes kids know very well how to spot an unresponsive, unwilling reaction. If he can tell the difference and knows how to accept boundaries, fine. If not, teach.
I don't think anyone is an a*****e here but this sounds like a big overreaction/misunderstanding. It's his girlfriend. Does every one here ask their partner for permission before hugging them? Family members, too?
My family usually say 'can I have a hug' - they don't just launch in and grab. Maybe my family is weird but it's what I'm used to so it seems normal to me.
Load More Replies...
It should have been. It goes both ways. Most schools teach keeping your hands to yourself in kindergarten or grade one
Load More Replies...
Children younger than nine get sexually abused. He should have been taught that he can say no for his own sake and that it is the right thing to ask of others. They might have been only playing but children can misread situations, just as adults do, and touch when the other doesn't want them to. If the message is age appropriate it is fine. Don't underestimate the ability of children - most are very quick to get what you're teaching them.
Load More Replies...
Ok Mr Predator. One should feel sorry for any woman you are with. Like the poor thing that’s been married 40 years who has her privates grabbed without warning. The only AH here is you. Keep you F@#$&G hands to yourself. A relationship doesn’t entitle you access to someone’s body whenever you want.
Load More Replies...
So wishing people to respect you space and autonomy is insecure? Grow up. You are either part of the problem or the solution. You and Justine here are part of the problem because you feel entitled to touch someone else Keep your hands to yourself unless you ask
Load More Replies...
NTA at all. The son isn't too young to understand about asking first. As long as the conversation is age appropriate (and it was) very young children will see it purely from their perspective, the husband is skewing it from HIS. Makes me wonder a little if he's got a slightly guilty conscience. Often people get angry when things hit a nerve. I don't mean he's ever done anything deliberately wrong, but how we approach teaching boys about seeking consent is definitely a change and only for the better.
Even very young children are capable of grasping that we ask before we touch people - not just girls but any other sentient human being whose space you're in who can exercise bodily autonomy (ie do you want a fist bump, wave, high five or a hug before we leave today, etc.?) To be honest, I'm actually surprised and a bit disheartened that this is kiddos first exposure to the concept of bodily autonomy.
Load More Replies... Dad's calling his own self out and doesn't even know it as it sounds like he's trying to excuse his own behavior.
He's probably coming from a 'issues are only discussed once there's a problem' angle, and that's not helpful in preventing the problem here. That's all.
Load More Replies... One should never touch anyone without their consent unless it's some kind of emergency.
Don't agree, if you can't even touch family members or close friends casually, then that would be a sad world.
Load More Replies... What if girls touch inappropriately? It should not just be for boys, girls are aggressive too
it is an important thing to talk about i completely agree thats a good age to do an explain it like you did
I taught both my sons about consent at an even younger age. It started with their own body autonomy, "it's okay if you don't want a hug" and also they were told to ask others for what physical contact they wanted. They were toddlers. I now have two teenage young men with healthy respect for personal space for everyone.
NTA. The sooner kids understand, as best they can for their developmental stage, the *better*.
Consent should be taught from an early age to both boys and girls. We've done it with our kids. They now understand that they don't touch anyone without consent and no one gets to touch them without consent.
i do that with my 1.5yr old daughter. I ask for a hug (verbally or holding out my arms) and if she says no it's no. But if i directly after ask her if i need to carry her around she most of the time says yes and jumps in my arms.
Load More Replies... I guess times have changed, because when I was 9 years old I was going to playgrounds with my friends and without my parents.
It's crazy to me that this isn't a normal discussion happening in every household with children? That's the real problem here. That this should be bare minimum parenting. Not saying that she's wrong or anything of the sort. She's awesome for doing this n speaking up. But I'm saying that THATS how low the bar is... that doing something that should be "the norm" is praised... when this should just be an everyday thing. It's like, I love Harry Styles, I think he's amazing. But a few years back he got all of this praise for asking "is it okay if I touch your hair" or "is okay if I kiss you" etc. while shooting one of his music videos. The director would be like "touch her hair" and he'd stop and ask if it was okay. And everyone was like "see this is what a gentleman looks like! This is why we love him" and it made me think... "omg That's how low the bar is for men... that being decent human beings is so unheard of that THIS is being celebrated when it should be the norm"
I think the only thing that needs to be added is that to discuss level of comfort with the one being touched. I had a friend ask me if he could give me a hug. I said ok. After a really nice hug I told him "That was nice. You can hug me anytime." So any time we saw each other it was a great big hug. Then my sister, who is 4 years older but looks like my twin, came up to me at my house and said "Who is Freddie?" I said he was a friend. She says "Well I met him at McDonald's and he said "hey you" and gave me a big hug. I asked who he was and introduced myself and he turned beet red." I laughed. I said "What did you think of him?" She said "He gives good hugs!"
I think its great and don't see any issues with that talk at all. I'm surprised someone would find that offensive? I have a 9yo son aswell (and 8yo daughter) and they have both talked about this quite a lot in school recently (regardless of gender obviously). We continue the discussion at home and it gives an opportunity to talk about other questions aswell.
Honestly 9 is a little late to be discussing this. As soon as they're old enough to understand they should know that unless there is a good reason (like a medical professional giving treatment) no one should touch you without consent and vice versa. And yes that includes if grandma demands a hug and you don't feel like it right then.
Setting behaviours and boundaries at a young age will set them up for positive situation later in life, clearly the father hadn't been taught this yet. What is innocent fun for one can be uncomfortable for another especially in a group where being seen as different from the rest can go against you.
Concent is actually jot just limited to humans. Most animals require concent to touch! Would your husband walk up to a strange horse and jump on it? How about a random dog wandering the street? Or even the household cat who is sleeping in the sun? All would be surprised, and potentially dangerous without concent.
I have a dog who is scarred and clearly a victim of abuse in some form. If someone goes to stroke him and he doesn't realise it's coming, he flinches on contact. As I want him to feel good about being petted I always talk to him calmly first and let him see what I'm going to do.
Load More Replies... This ia actually an excellent learning example. Is there evidence that people (male or female or LGBTQ) are either sexual predators or not...until they act as predators? I think not. Sexual attraction is a wonderful and necessary thing, but consent must be considered early...very early. the problem here is the father. It is HIS job to help his son learn how to channel his sexual interest (yes when he says she is his girlfriend...it is the start) and become aware of consent. Yes the father is failing to be a good father.
NTA. sounds like dad needs a lesson on how to treat women since mom is trying to raise a son who is aware that girls don't always want to be touched without consent. any man who thinks it is fine to touch a woman whenever he wants needs this lesson. i thank the heavens that if there was one thing that i taught my now 42 yr old son is that he is to respect women.
NTA. Teaching your kids socially acceptable behavior so that they can function as future adults is literally part of the parents job description.
Detfintely NTA. I work in a primary school and I remind the ALL the kids that they should keep their hands to themselves and that no one has the right to touch them without their consent. If I see a child I think needs physical comfort, I ALWAYS ask them first if that is what they want. Most of the time, they do but occasionally they don't and it's so important to respect that.
When I was a kid, back in the 1970s (and you can see this in movies): If a person wanted to put their arm around someone, they did. If a person wanted to kiss someone, they did. And it wasn't just guys. When I was in university, a woman I knew suddenly and unexpectedly grabbed me and kissed me passionately! But it's not the 1970s anymore. How people feel about being touched or kissed hasn't changed! What's changed is that we're more AWARE now that a lot of times, touching or kissing wasn't welcome, and a lot of people felt pressure not to say anything because of making things "awkward", etc etc etc. The fact that we want people to ask permission before touching someone is progress. It's an acknowledgement that we care about how the other person feels. Sure, we might lose out on some happy surprises! But we also no longer are subjected to unwanted "surprises".
The problem is, if her son doesn’t learn that it’s not okay to touch people without their permission, he in fact IS a predator in the making. This boy will grow into a preteen who will believe lifting his classmates’ skirts is the best joke ever, then teenager who will think groping his classmates is “just fun”, and later into an adult who will think that slapping waitress’ butt is “just guys being guys” and howling at a woman from the car window is a compliment. Just because you don’t assault someone doesn’t mean you can’t be a predator, and it’s never too early to learn how not to be one.
Of course we should be teaching our children about respecting other people's boundaries from a young age. And, while 'all consent matters', let's be honest that the pressure will be on heterosexual young men to specifically indulge in non-consensual touch of women. To counteract this social message it is necessary to specifically talk about this one area, outside of the usual manners we teach. Boys need to recognise when the message is being pushed at them, otherwise how will they know it is incorrect? My only caveat in situations like the above is to mention that of course we don't always ask first before we do things like pat someone's arm, put an arm around them, etc, sometimes it happens so instinctively. But what we need to be highly aware of is body language that means 'I don't want this' and to retract quickly. This is something boys very much need to be taught. Things like 'if you're hugging a girl and her arms remain hanging at her side, she's not into it'
NO ONE is entitled to touch anyone else. It's so heteronormative to assume the entitled messaging is only restricted to boys - I wish other girls didn't touch me either much of the time, the pervasive attitude of 'we're all girls here and that means you should be fine with it' is awful. We shouldn't accept nonsense from anyone, unwanted touching is UNWANTED, even if coupled with 'you should lighten up, have some fun, you need a hug'. This sort of thing feels inescapable when you're not-straight.
Load More Replies... you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequences for there behavior
Never too young to have this conversation. Children need to understand both sides and to understand that they too have the right to decide who can touch them and when. There’s that great song for younger children “Pantosaurus and the Pants Song.” The mum here is just teaching her child to be responsible for their actions and to be respectful towards others.
NTA, your husband is or at minimum is just ignorant about appropriate behavior. Ask your husband how he would feel if your son's male coach put his hand on your son's upper inner thigh while talking to him. I bet that will wake your husband up...
In college I had a boyfriend who always asked permission to put his arm around me and he always really listened to me. I have never felt so respected and cherished in my life.
I did this 25 years ago! I mean to have to teach the asking and giving of consent. You have to empower the ones who may be giving consent. I did my three at the time they were f9, m5,m4. I had them all go and put on their bathing suits. When they came downstairs I explained to them as a group that ESPECIALLY the parts of the body covered by the suits were there for them to have say so over, and that was final. They could tell o me or dad or grandma about anyone who was making them feel weird. But I also told them they had no business handling all over other people. Yes they were young, but guess what, twice, there were instances that needed that information. And the self confidence our talks gave them to overcome pressure.
Yeah, NTA at all. I'd be concerned about the husband letting it slide, actually, because it's way too often that consent to being touched is blown off because 'they're just kids' and then when they grow up they're unable to set boundaries or communicate clearly when it's not okay to touch them. And if people never learn to respect other people's space, they could grow up to be predators.
Teaching your kid about consent (if fine correctly) will also ensure they know no one should touch them without their consent. Include what to do if they see it are involved in something that makes them uncomfortable or violates consent and you're protecting your kid. There's a great video to start a conversation https://youtu.be/h3nhM9UlJjc
9 year old son has a girlfriend, I think you were a little late to consent talk. But NTA, it must be taught early on. I was touched inappropriately when I was 5ish, I immediately told mum. When I was 8 and on a school trip, we went to cafe, we sat at a table with two friends and older man sat next to us at other table with no drinks or food, and started rubbing my classmates knee. She smiled 🙈😱😱 I asked her what is he doing, and called teacher immediately. Absolutely teach children about consent as early as appropriate. Reminder: boys fall for predators at early ages, in teenage years girls are more likely to be abused. Please please protect your children from outside predators. Husband needs to open up and realise children must know about human anatomy and consent, it's imperative from health point of view and safety. You teach them so they know to recognise predatory behaviour to protect themselves and others. For this they need to know their own consent boundaries!
Well considering I am a woman who was date raped six times in my youth over a ten year period, and molested a few more times, I think you did a fab job talking to him. No time like the present! Thank you for setting him straight. Sensitivity training is Number ONE in my book. If we could be more present to teach boys what they need to learn could save the world.
you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequences for there behavior
I have this talk with 9 year olds all of the time-in the classroom or on the playground. You can tell those who have never had this conversation before. You can also tell the boys who have parents who have told them they CAN do whatever they want.
If you don't teach your sons about consent THEY ARE predators in the making. That's why we keep saying men are socially conditioned to cross womens boundaries. You have to TEACH them to act differently, otherwise they won't know and won't see the problem. NTA all the way.
Another vote for "Saint" but I'd be having a serious conversation with her husband because he clearly overreacted. I wish more parents would drum this into their boys (and their girls as well, as unwarranted physical touching is not on from either side). With all the things you see in the press about the steps women need to take in order to be 'safe' and as the father of a daughter, I just roll my eyes and wish that mothers / fathers would educate their sons better and bring them up to treat women with respect
At one time it was considered alright for a boy to pull a girls plaits, or give her a thump on the shoulder to show her that he liked her. Boys were supposed to be big and tough, big boys don't cry. Girls to be meek and submissive. If they complained that a boy pulled their hair, oh he just likes you. Girls name called and the person who received was told sticks and stones etc. I guess what we need to teach is to respect each other. That Mum is doing a good job
Every child no matter what the age needs to know what is good touch and bad touch. It protects them from both bad touch and accusations. It's as simple as saying 'Can I hug you?'
I teach my 11 yr old daughter consent for everyone & every gender.
Consent is sexy and teaching children when they're young that consent is the norm is the only way we're going to see a change. Bravo to the OP for raising a good kid.
you need to start teaching them at a young age she is nta her husband is trying to maybe if more people told there children the same thing we would not have so many make it sound like she is treating him like he is a predator i don't see it that way at all children who grow up to think they can do what ever they like to the opposite sex there would not be so many people who grow up and think there are no boundaries or consequence for there behavior
Yo this is based. I wish my mom had taught me this when I was his age because I am autistic and did not realize I was making girls uncomfortable with my behavior.
This is one of the AITA stories where I wonder about how it is presented. I support the idea of her having a conversation with her son about consent. I just wonder if her interpretation of how the conversation went is accurate. Maybe it wasn't just a casual conversation like she presented it. You could have a message of "I'm sure what you did was harmless, but you need to be careful in the future, just in case next time isn't harmless and you don't notice. It is important to be aware of these things". And you could have a message of "What you did was horrible, and you are a bad person for doing it. But now you know, so we can improve in the future" -- Yeah I'm sure she didn't literally say the second one, but she could have implied it with her choice of words and tone of voice. -- Note I'm not saying that she DID to this, but this is my problem with the AITA posts, where we get one person's interpretation of their actions. Almost every person who IS a jerk, thinks otherwise
A reasonable point. Though for this one I don't think it seems that likely. She had already had this conversation with her older children, two girls, and her husband had been fine with that. So she's had experience at having this conversation. Plus, while again it is her reporting how it went, her son wasn't upset. The only one upset here was her husband. He's reacting differently when she's talking with her boy about this - though he claims 'too young and an inappropriate moment'. Why does he see it that way? He's saying she might have made the son feel bad but it seems more that she made the husband feel bad and I wonder if it touched a nerve. Nine is definitely not too young, a lot of girls start their periods at nine and puberty is right around the corner. As her girls were older I can't help but feel if anything they're leaving it too late.
Load More Replies... I don't think your the AH but.... did you have the same conversation with your daughters too? About them getting consent before touching someone?
So many of the problems with sexist roles are attributable to socialization. When inappropriate behaviors are not acknowledged as inappropriate, then they are perceived as acceptable...then it goes from one level to another...and to another. Appropriate gender roles MUST be reinforced as early as possible, particularly for males, since we are often socialized to be sexually dominant. the father is totally wrong, and that is soooo sad. It is HIS job to help his son learn appropriate gender roles...it is HIS job. But he fails, because no one helped to guide him when he was young.
Uhm, is this seriously what we're doing now? "May I lightly brush against your leg with mine while we watch this movie?" Maybe fill out a form while we're at it? Jeez.
NTA but this is kinda woke. I mean he's 9 y old. Doesn't even know what the word means. I agree with both parents on certain levels. I understand her intentions but it's a bit early.
Girls on average start puberty at 11 and boys at 12. At the age of 8 there are often signs in girls that puberty is starting. The girl needs him to know, even if you feel he doesn't need to. Though I disagree wholeheartedly. He should know for his own sake that he can say no to someone touching him. Parents who wrap children up in cotton wool and don't tell them in some weird, old-fashioned mistaken belief they are protecting their 'innocence' are more likely to end up with a child who doesn't realise when someone does something wrong to them. That's not a risk worth taking. As long as the message is age appropriate and the child understands how it fits in their world, then it can keep them safe. Nothing even slightly woke about it. Woke, by the way, means alert to injustice and discrimination in society, especially racism.
Load More Replies... On the fence on this. We’re making some stuff that’s been ignored or neglected into serious issues and that’s good. There is too much of a good thing, though. I agree with the father that the question was going at it from a difficult angle for the boy. Ask: „how did your girlfriend like that?“ next time. It opens the discussion and the boy can say:“she loved it“ - because, maybe she did. If he doesn’t know, ask how he thinks he could know whether she likes to be cuddled. Sometimes kids know very well how to spot an unresponsive, unwilling reaction. If he can tell the difference and knows how to accept boundaries, fine. If not, teach.
I don't think anyone is an a*****e here but this sounds like a big overreaction/misunderstanding. It's his girlfriend. Does every one here ask their partner for permission before hugging them? Family members, too?
My family usually say 'can I have a hug' - they don't just launch in and grab. Maybe my family is weird but it's what I'm used to so it seems normal to me.
Load More Replies... It should have been. It goes both ways. Most schools teach keeping your hands to yourself in kindergarten or grade one
Load More Replies... Children younger than nine get sexually abused. He should have been taught that he can say no for his own sake and that it is the right thing to ask of others. They might have been only playing but children can misread situations, just as adults do, and touch when the other doesn't want them to. If the message is age appropriate it is fine. Don't underestimate the ability of children - most are very quick to get what you're teaching them.
Load More Replies... Ok Mr Predator. One should feel sorry for any woman you are with. Like the poor thing that’s been married 40 years who has her privates grabbed without warning. The only AH here is you. Keep you F@#$&G hands to yourself. A relationship doesn’t entitle you access to someone’s body whenever you want.
Load More Replies... So wishing people to respect you space and autonomy is insecure? Grow up. You are either part of the problem or the solution. You and Justine here are part of the problem because you feel entitled to touch someone else Keep your hands to yourself unless you ask
Load More Replies... 
161
212