Grandmother Doesn’t Get Her Daughter’s Parenting Style And The Woman Wonders If She’s In The Wrong For Not Willing To Change
Every parent has their own style of raising their children as every kid has different needs and different behaviors that have to be dealt with. That means that one way in itself can’t be better than another because the essential thing is the application.
But some parents may think that their methods are the best and want to give advice to anyone who listens and who doesn’t. Especially when it comes to grandparents teaching their children how to bring up their grandchildren.
It’s always awkward when you feel like you know what’s best for your children but your own mom says that what you’re doing is wrong. It definitely puts some doubts and second thoughts in your head. That is why Reddit user wubaiaoa is asking if she is being a jerk for not considering her mom’s opinion about how she raises her children.
More info: Reddit
A mother of two approaches parenting with methods that are not very popular and she asks if she is wrong for not changing them after her own mother disapproves of them
Image credits: Olaf Gradin (not the actual photo)
A 23-year-old woman wanted to hear from people on the internet about whether she was being mean for not considering her mom’s advice about parenting. The original poster (the OP) has two children, a 5-year-old girl and a 3-year-old boy and she admits that her parenting style isn’t the most popular.
She explains further what she means. The OP’s parenting doesn’t involve any punishments and is based on praising. In the post she mentions that when her children misbehave, she just ignores them. But in the comments we get to know that she actually does respond to bad behavior and communicates what is wrong to her children. She gives an example: “‘You hit mommy, I don’t want to be near you right now. That hurt.’ It’s a surefire way to get them to behave.”
Bored Panda got in touch with Jennifer Silvers, a professor at UCLA’s Department of Psychology who got her Ph.D. at Columbia University and now is focused on her research of why and how the changes in social and emotional behavior occur in childhood and adolescence. She expressed cautious approval of OP’s method of parenting when children are encouraged through praising rather than trying to stop them from misbehaving by punishing them.
Image credits: wubaiaoa
The OP uses positive encouragement and doesn’t punish her kids and it was working out fine
Image credits: wubaiaoa
The expert told us, “In general, children respond more strongly to warmth and encouragement than to punishment, especially when it is punitive in nature. That said, I am a big fan of “natural consequences” as a form of punishment.”
Dr. Jennifer Silvers gives an example of how she parents her children and you can definitely see parallels to what the Redditor said she does: “if my children are dawdling with a task I will tell them, ‘you can move slowly but that will mean we do not have time for dessert/book/insert favorite reward here’ and then I stick to it – they don’t get to do the fun thing if we in fact run out of time.”
Another thing is that she always listens to her children’s opinions and lets them express themselves however they want
Image credits: wubaiaoa
Another thing that the OP does differently than other parents is letting her children make their own decisions about their bodies. She lets them choose for themselves what they want to wear, if they want to be touched, and what hairstyles they prefer. That is why her daughter now has a shaved head.
Such liberty is not very accepted by wubaiaoa’s parents, especially her mother. The OP gives an example of the family’s disapproval of her methods when during her sister’s wedding, her daughter wanted to wear a suit.
Image credits: wubaiaoa
It upset almost everyone, but the sister eventually got over it and understood that the outfit was the child’s decision. She was disappointed that the girl wouldn’t wear the bridesmaid’s dress and that she wouldn’t match with them in the photo, but she would rather have the girl with the suit in photos than not having her niece in the photos at all.
The sister wasn’t bothered about the son wearing a dress, though, because he was supposed to be a flower boy and his outfit fit the aesthetic.
To the point that she let her daughter wear a suit and her son a dress to their aunt’s wedding, which caused dirty looks
Image credits: wubaiaoa
We were interested to know if such small children are capable of making their own decisions and Dr. Jennifer Silvers agrees that it is healthy to let children make their own decisions accordingly to their age with adults supervising them.
The expert gives an example from her own experience, “I let my children choose what they want to eat at dinner but only among 3-5 healthy food options that I have laid out on the table. I let them choose what to wear in the morning so long as it is among a set of options that is appropriate for the weather outside. It is wonderful to encourage agency in young children but in a way that is consistent with their developmental stage.”
The one who disapproves the most is the children’s grandmother who is convinced that her grandkids don’t love her
Image credits: wubaiaoa
So now we know that children should be encouraged to make age-appropriate decisions. But what about the decision of what they want to be as a person, what identity they want to assume? Dr. Jennifer Silvers points out that understanding of idenity evolves across a person’s lifespan, but it truly all starts at a young age similar to the OP’s children.
“Most children at this age have a strong sense of how they identify in terms of gender but understanding of race and ethnicity tend to be present but take longer to fully develop, as does sexual orientation. Children may express interests that could serve as kindling for future professional identities but few individuals are fully committed to a career path at this age. Similarly, young children might have a strong orientation towards caregiving but it would be impossible for a 4 year-old to say with certainty whether they will someday acquire the identity of “parent.” Children have an emerging sense of identity but the components of this identity will continue to change and develop for decades to come (though not as rapidly as in the first two decades of life).”
The OP is convinced that the grandmother should learn to communicate with them in a different way and that would solve the problem
Image credits: wubaiaoa
Returning back to the incident at the wedding, after a while the OP added an edit to the post and addressed it. The children’s outfits were discussed prior to the wedding and it wasn’t a case of showing up and giving everyone a surprise.
Also, during the day of the wedding, the bride seemed happy and wasn’t upset about it anymore and the mom thinks that she just needed some time to get used to the fact that her niece and nephew would be dressed not in a traditional fashion.
Image credits: wubaiaoa
But the grandmother wasn’t so lenient. She was hurt when her grandchildren would refuse to give her a hug and wear the clothes she bought them or play with toys she gave them. That makes her think that her grandkids don’t like her.
The OP doesn’t get that impression. She thinks that instead of forcing her own expectations on them, the grandmother should try to listen to them and respond accordingly and then the children will accept her.
The grandmother went as far as calling her daughter a neglectful mother that doesn’t teach her kids how life actually works. This didn’t sit well with the OP but she still wants a second opinion on what others think other than people in her friend and family circle.
The grandmother is worried that when the children will grow up, they will get bullied and won’t be able to adapt
Image credits: wubaiaoa
The comments are really mixed. Everyone has a different opinion. Some people thought that wubaiaoa has the right to ignore what her mom is saying because it is her children and she parents them as she sees fit.
People who supported the OP thought that she is raising very aware children who will treat others with kindness and consideration. Those who didn’t have much say in their lives when they were young, felt that they would have liked to have the woman as their mother.
The OP isn’t willing to change her parenting style, but is doubtful; that is why she is asking strangers to look at the situation with objectivity
Image credits: wubaiaoa
There were as many people who disagreed with OP’s parenting methods and saw the grandmother as the reasonable one. They argued that such small children need guidance from their parents who will tell them what is acceptable behavior and what is not.
There were a lot of people commenting on the wedding, too, saying that the mom letting her children dress disobeying the dress code was making a distraction from the bride on her big day and saw it as an inappropriate place to show off their free will in their choices.
In an edit, the woman addressed some comments and the important thing she mentioned was that if her methods will start to fail, she is not against changing them
Image credits: wubaiaoa
When asked about the comments that were saying that these children will have issues at school or in life in general because of the way they were raised the professor wasn’t so categorical. She thinks that it is difficult to predict such things and also, children have an amazing trait of being adaptable, “Children often behave differently in different settings and may acquiesce happily to rules at school that they would not abide by at home. This is actually pretty common because children are quite savvy about adapting to varied social norms as well as to things like peer expectations. This is not to say there will not be hiccups, there very well could be but it’s impossible to say whether there definitely will be without knowing the details of a child’s situation.”
Image credits: wubaiaoa
Another important thing those who oppose wubaiaoa’s parenting style should understand is that there is no one way to raise well behaved, kind and intelligent children. Dr. Jennifer Silvers believes that not all children who experienced abuse will necessarily grow up with mental problems.
Also, “All children are different and while none benefit from harsh or abusive parenting, their needs for structure differ quite a bit. A child who is very sensitive to punishment might only need a stern look from their parent to get in line whereas a child who struggles more with regulating behavior might need more explicit redirecting, correction and natural consequences.”
So it seems that the mother in the story understands that and is not rushing to punish her children more severaly than it needs to be done. Also, the mom has consulted with professionals and it seems that her discipline method is working jutst fine. We also shouldn’t forget that we don’t really know the whole situation and there is probably more to it than the OP let us in on.
Image credits: wubaiaoa
She also addressed the wedding outfits and explained they were agreed upon in advance and didn’t ruin the celebration for the bride
Image credits: wubaiaoa
What would be important to highlight is that the mom is open to changing her parenting style if it won’t work anymore, but for now her children’s behavior doesn’t cause serious problems.
As to whether what is good and bad parenting, it is hard to be decisive on it. As our expert puts it, it “is partially dependent on social and cultural context, which makes it very difficult to provide a single prescription for how to parent well or poorly.”
So the conclusion we could make is that parents should get to know their kids and figure out how they respond to different treatment. Then they can adapt and take measures at the same time always expressing their love and support.
Image credits: wubaiaoa
Even though it is nearly impossible to say whether wubaiaoa is a good parent or not, we can still debate on whether other people have a say in how parents should raise their children. Even if it is their own parents who see the methods as unfit.
Who would you say is the wrong one in this story? Do you feel like the OP needs to consider her own mom’s advice more or she just should allow her intuition to guide her? Let us know in the comments.
The opinions were really mixed and everyone had their own reasoning
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I applaud her letting the children make choices on what toys or clothing they want (my son wanted a doll house for Christmas a few years ago while my doctor wanted dinosaurs and Marvel action figures) but I agree with those saying that the 'just ignore the bad behaviour' bit may bite her in the a**e. It may work when they are young but not so much when those teenage hormones kick in and they deliberately start to test their boundaries.
Did you miss the bit where she said she'd adjust her approach if needed in future?
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"Be the parent you wish you had" is excellent advice. I also always explained to my daughter why certain behavior was inappropriate. Children are better equipped to think through the consequences of their actions after you've explained consequences for years.
Be the parent you wish you had, lemme give you a bad example: My bfs mom used to have super toxic parents. Authoritarian and lots of screaming and punishment. So she became the parent she wished she had and was super laissez-faire with her son and gave lots and lots of praise. To the point that he, my now bf, is disappointed in her for not teaching her how to do household chores/cooking and not having taught how share space (aka taking responsibility in a shared household) with someone else. He has a hard time accepting compliments ("there was a compliment inflation with my mom") and has difficulties giving them...so I'd say that in general the statement is correct and good in nature but in reality...well, depends on people's self awareness....
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So long as her kids are well-adjusted and well-behaved, and don't cause problems for others (other than their not conforming to gender norms or not allowing people to force hugs on them), then I'd say she's doing just fine. I can understand that Grandma wants to hug her grandkids, but mom absolutely has a point in that they're going to have a much better sense of self, boundries and consent by not forcing them to hug her if they don't want to. I think Grandma is just butthurt about it, honestly. Kids are little people, not property.
So your Mom's ACTUAL complaint is that you are not training them to love her no matter what a bitch she is. Yeah, ignore her and do you.
The problem is the current age we live in having changed some things. In my parents generation it was 'beat your kids into silence, make them conform to the social mold, and tell them what to do and how to live for the rest of their lives'. Nowadays people have broken away from the conformist style of living we did for generations and are trying new forms of parenting and living. I think the grandmother isn't able to adjust or account for that yet, she's stuck on the old-school style of raising a family. Grandma is insistent she wants hugs, this could be the old-school thing of children are just property to we can kiss, hug and abuse them whenever we want to; or, if grandpa is dead/was never around/is an unemotional person, the grandmother may be desperately seeking to replace the affection she should be getting from her spouse with the affection she wants from her grandchildren. Loneliness can turn us into nasty people, she may be suffering with this.
The kids don't owe it to her however. She must earn it or join a bridge club.
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Yeah, the only problem I saw was the not responding to bad behavior part. People will respond to their bad behavior for the rest of their lives. You're teaching them that something is wrong with other when they don't just ignore the bad behavior.
Sounds to me like she's following relatively old Behaviourist data which suggests that ignoring people who misbehave gives them "negative conditioing" and stops the behaviour. In fact it doesn't work, it causes escalation.
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I have been a teacher for 14 years now, and can say that children with this type of upbringing are often problematic in a classroom situation.
So am I, and my kids are at a school where this is ENTIRELY their way of working and guess what? Zero bullying, consistent A+ grades. That's a sample size of 400. So let's not assume that not fitting in with conventional classrooms (AKA pink floyd's brick in the wall), is wise.
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I like what she is doing, I'm parenting mostly the same way. However, I don't ignore bad behavior. My kids get time outs, toys or snacks taken away, etc with a lot of communication. We're currently doing a reward chart with my oldest and that cuts down on a lot of time outs, I just remind her she will get a sticker. Zero negative reinforcement will not go well for very long so I hope she is quick to change her parenting styles when the time comes. While this is just one aspect, I've seen parents who didn't care about their kids grades at all until high school. Free reign, no cares given. HS grades will make or break your future in Korea so they suddenly care and put tons of pressure on their kids. It doesn't work, it's too late. Parents end up literally crying to the teacher, telling us we can hit their children. Anything to get their grades up... Gotta start caring and setting boundaries when they are younger...
You're not doing what she is doing. I think she is doing respectful parenting, which doesn't include reward charts, or arbitrary punishment.
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So she ignores their bad behavior, meaning everyone else around them has to put up with it. That is not being a responsible parent. All the self choosing and no touching I'm all for, but discipline your brat when they misbehave.
no.. she redirects their bad behavior and praises them for good behavior.
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I don't mind anything written here, however one sentence puzzled me in context of the whole article. You wrote you were going to put your son in suit because tiny suits are cute. So wait, he didn't have saying till your sister asked you to give him dress? Because that's exactly how it sounds. Maybe I'm picking on details but that single sentence changed the context pretty rapidly and I don't understand it (yes, it's possible to make negative picture but that's not my intention, sometimes small things mean something sometimes they don't). Wish I could ask you, it made me think way too hard.
I agree with her parenting techniques. I've raised my daughter the same way, explaining why and it works. Just because they're children doesn't mean they can't think and reason. They need to for when they're older. You can't just explain later when they are "old enough". There will never be an old enough. As for when they are teenagers and deliberately test their boundaries? They do that their whole life. Just hope you've raised them right. And those kids will be incredibly adapted and inclusive. Just wish the rest of the world could be. Keep raising kids like that and we will be! Who thought up pants for men, dresses for women anyway? Why do we have to strictly adhere to that dress code? Get with the times. Other cultures aren't so restrictive, by the way. Just saying.
In Arabia, and some places like india, in formal religious wear, men wear long skirts, and in scotland, men wear short skirts called kilts. This thing of pants = boys is specifically a gaulish and possibly farsi heritage, it is NOT inherent in genetics! In africa, certainly, tribal wear for men is loincloths or long skirts (kanga). The pants thing is entirely from europe.
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My mom is bothered by some of my parenting choices, specifically that I treat my kid with respect and allow them to make as many decisions about their life as they're able to at their age. I mostly ignore, though I'm a bit saddened by the fact that she's ruining her relationship with her grandchild. My dad knows that his ability to have a relationship with his grandchild at all isn't guaranteed, so he keeps his mouth shut. I wouldn't take parenting advice from either of them - I know how their kids turned out.
I really cringed from being hug-kiss-kiss by relatives on one side of my fam as a kid, but... it was good training for smiling through other things I'd like to scream about.
If the children are happy and know how to behave when necessary, then why worry?
And how do we really know that? Because she said so? I `ve known many parents who claim their children are perfect but I also have seen those ``angels`` in action, so what is really the truth?
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I want her to adopt me, my parents seem to think forcing me to be effeminate and "act like a girl" will make me WANT to be effeminate, while it does the opposite, and they are borderline abusive with their punishments for bad behavior, while good behavior goes unnoticed and unrewarded, not even the smallest amount of praise.
If we like it or not there are also norms for the world. I thought I saw an article on here about a dad not taking his daughter to a wedding cause she wouldn’t dress up and everyone praised him. Of course no issue with the children dressing in a different gender if it’s appropriate. But it sounds like this mom is going too far in the let them live. My kids knew from a little age there may be events where they dress up when they don’t want to, or have to pretend to like a dish (at least take a bit or two and push it around lol) or be bored out of their mind where the still need to behave. there is a big balance as adults to take care of our needs while still respecting those around us. It’s important to start practicing even as a child
In this case, the kids did dress up for the wedding, in a way that the bride approved.
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I'm an autistic parent to a daughter. I was a tomboy, however, I'm glad my mother reinforced stereotypes of my sex by offering an array of toys and clothes but dressing me appropriately for formal events within society. She taught me the difference between my formal and personal life. I think there's a balance to be struck in discipline and you need to set the boundaries. Adults should be setting appropriate limits for children and working with them in this, you seem to think your progressive and actually you're teaching them to do whatever they want (regressive.) Gender games are cruel when you're feeding them directly into a billion pound industry of sex change.. there's an explosion of children wanting to change gender because PSHE now teaches gender ideology as fact from 2020, when we are a sexually dimorphic species. After puberty most peoples dysphoria remits we aim to forfill our biological function of passing on genes, you're creating victims of the system. Grandma knows.
I agree with you that the dismorphia thing is a risk. However I don't see that wearing a skirt is an issue. Ask the scots. Men there wear skirts at formal occasions and no-one would dare criticise a scot on his dress or putative gender. That's how you'd get an IRN BRU shoved sideways up your a**e. Moreover, by imposing gender norms from society you are perpetuating those gender norms uncritically. I'd suggest you look at which aspects you want to perpetuate.
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You're raising children to be good adults, not your friends. Be a parent.
Is a good adult a person who conforms to black and white binary thinking, kisses their gran, and wears the expected clothing? Or is that a conformist who joins armies, votes for the conservative option, and goes on to perpetuate injustices in society? How about thinking about WHAT aspects of "good adults" are in fact good and should be perpetuated? I'm not sure all of them ARE good.
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In my experience I have only seen that approach backfire with my SIL, but I am one experience and that doesn't make or break the system. My SIL has 2 kids and would ignore or redirect their attention as toddlers but when they got older the kids felt free to scream, throw, or run and do whatever they wanted. She attempted to change and become an authority but they would literally fight back. Those kids are 15 and 12 respectfully and are terrors. They honestly have no respect for anyone but sadly the oldest got kicked out school for bullying and then was arrested for shop lifting. I was in court with my family as support but when they were sent off for 2 years due to priors the look on their face said it all...honestly I don't think they felt they would ever get in trouble. The youngest is a bit quieter and has slowed down on attitude but the family is damaged. I left out their genders so people couldn't assume anything and you would be surprised. The family is affluent as well.
Mom is right. As long as they are healthy and safe, it is important to respect a child's feelings, thoughts, and preferences. No child should ever be forced be physical with anyone. That is a very dangerous precedent and would not be expressing love toward grandma either. Rest of family needs to respect mom's style of parenting. There is no one right way to parent a child.
NTA. My kids are similar. People always mistake them for girls despite the dinosaur shirts and blue pants. Idiots. Conservatives must just grow up, who cares what gender a person looks like. If you want the world to be black and white for you to be comfortable, that is your problem. Not mine, not my kids. My kids behave well in public. Any misbehaviour and we discuss it nicely. No need for violence at all. Ignoring bad behaviour isn't cool, they need to know that others don't like it, so catch the kid by the arm and say hey, by the way, no one likes that behaviour. And yes, good that they've been taught boundaries already. We say no to violence, excessive inappropriate diet, excessive screen time, plastic junk, etc. They know what no means. BE THE CHANGE.
Gosh your under 6 kid decided she wanted a shaved head and you did it. How exactly did that come about ? Mom on the laptop and MOM came across a photo of someone with a shaved head and asked her very young child if she liked it and then mom shaved her little girls head. You made that choice free style mom. Not that poor little girl. Cause Children that age do not understand the complexities of what MOM was trying to prove. And you are clearly trying to prove something to the world and are using your small innocent children to do it. What's next ? Is the kid going to be rocking full arm tats at 7. This has nothing to do with a free style of parenting . This is uneducated poor parenting. The only thing I agree with is not pushing gender norms or forcing hugs. But the mother is going to screw her children up big time . At this young age children need guidance and rules. That is how they learn to live as civilized human beings in this big wide world. Their brains are still absorbing and learning. How are they going to function at school. They will be expected to follow the rules. Gosh I guess free style mommy will teach her kids that it is OK to question authority and to tell her teachers to go f**k themselves if they don't agree with way things are run.
Considering how much she's been circling the gender thing, her daughter may be trans. In which case they might want to have short hair and dress in boy's clothes. The world doesn't end if a girl has short hair. I'm literally the only woman in my family with long hair. Everyone is doing just fine.
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You may have to use a similar technique on your mother. "No, they don't hate you, they just don't want to be hugged." "No, they don't hate you, but they have no interest in the gifts you chose. They would love your asking about what they like." You may even give her a few small ill chosen gifts and tell her yoi got something you liked, so you were sure she'd like them too.
The grandmother calling them ""[potential] snowflakes" is all you need to know about the type of person they are.
I would like to revisit this family to see how she adjusts when the kids are 15 and 12. Not being negative, just curious.
I recall as a child be allowed decisions on my own about clothes, food etc...However, those first six years or so of life set the tone for the next 80. Children must function in the world and develop coping skills. I work with teenagers just out of high-school who have been raised this way. The result is uneven. Most of the young people I deal with have had too much autonomy aneven though mom is not there giving them options, they think they set the options. Life is full of things we have to do that we don't want to do, and if a parent does set exceptions to free will life can be very hard for them later. Daily chores that effect no one else are fine. But accommodating others wishes at a wedding is a must. The adults must dress appropriately, so must the children. I was taught such things growing up and it served me well. Adapting to age and behavior changes may be tough down the road as the mothers method does not include strong consequences or even tears. Both of these things are something children must learn to work through. At the beginning of every semester I encounter kids who can cope and those who won't. And I've yet to be wrong about those who drop out. I hope this young mother finds more balance.
This is me. This is my parents. I'm 54... turned out fine. My parents belivied in me and my opinion... and that made an adult with opinions, voice, education etc.... and also my parents backup always! Keep on the good work..
My friend's cousin does JUST this and her kids are not the little bastions of lovely children SHE thinks they are. I get the impression this is all more about HER ego, her childhood pain and less about the kiddos. She has not adapted yet and the kids get a little worse each time I see them. I think most PEOPLE not just children appreciate parameters and knowing the rules makes for a more secure human.
Honestly don't care anymore. I'm a therapist and if there is any issues in their adulthood... well there's some new client for me so... yeah
I don't have a dog in this fight, so you do you, and everyone is different, so this might end up just fine, but it's taking a hell of a risk. The penalty for failure is literally your children's future, so I sincerely hope this works out well for all of you. For what I've seen, kids need boundaries to bounce against, not in the "this is why I'm strict" kind of way, but in the "kids need to learn how the society they live in operates" kind of way. For better or worse we don't live in a society that ignores bad behavior and rewards good behavior, our society is almost the exact opposite, and these kids might be in for a hard adjustment when they start to be held responsible for their decisions and actions. Good luck, I hope this ends well.
The "Clothing and genders... actual professionals..." raises a lot of questions. Gender dysphoria which require professional help for 3-year olds?
This parenting works for her and her children and don't hurt anyone, so there is no problem. NTA
I don't get how additional punishment is teaching something? How many times have you been punished because of your wrong choices or actions since being adult? Except the fact that you have to live with consequences, for me it's kind of horrible to wait for extra punishment just so you can learn something...
I appreciate the fact that everyone wants to be different. That everyone wants to be special and "above" the crowd. But we don't live alone, on a mountain with no contact with other people. We live in a society and society, while "elastic" also infers certain standards. Telling or raising your children as though they are above societal norms does not instill pride or the ability to create a viable and worthwhile life style, it creates people who expect the world to conform to them, which means they expect society and people to conform to them. We call those people entitled and one of the greatest "put downs" on this site is "entitled." You are not raising "free thinkers" you are raising the entitled. Because they are NOT going to be children all their lives, despite what they may think, they are going to have to grow up and live in the real world with other people. And people will not give them a "pass" because they are "entitled."
I think there's a difference between giving kids the ability to decide, within reason, and raising them to be entitled. For me, entitled means something like cutting queues, being disrespectful to waiters, expecting a servant to iron your shirts, etc. I agree that she's probably wrong on the control of bad behaviour, but beyond that I think it's ok. As for fitting in with society, I think that's super over-rated. There's a difference between conforming to reasonable norms - like which side of the road you drive on, like queueing in a shop, like holding a door for anyone, like not sneezing in peoples' faces - but I think that forcing boys to have short hair, wear blue, and girls to have long hair, and wear pink, is not even ridiculous, it's downright pathetic.
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Ya know, kids who aren't abused grow up to be more intelligent than kids who are abused
or it could just be that smart parents don't abuse their kids. Causation/correlation problem.
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Young person whos brain isnt fully developed thinking she is an expert on children after having one immediately after legally not being considered a child her self anymore. This bull s**t about not enforcing gender norms on your children is in turn forcing your ideas on them, one parent has their son in blue and car toys and daughter in pink and dresses and dolls and the other parent is having them wear ugly non gender specific clothing and think that having their son own dolls will have them choose their own gender. I Had girl cabbage patch kids as a child and played barbies with my sisters as well as playing He man with my brother. I realized I prefer to play on my own and have been a Baby Whisperer since I was a teenager. As well as spending years training in different martial arts.
Load of poo. This lady couldn't respect her sister enough to have her kids wear the appropriate outfits at her sister's wedding? That's so disrespectful 😒 eye roll. I'm all about kids having choices, but letting your kid shave his/her head just because they have no sense of impulse control is ridiculous. My kid says he wants cake and marshmallows for breakfast, am I going to give it to him? Hell no. He will be complaining of a stomach ache 20 minutes later. I'm not going to give it to him and wait for natural consequences... I'm done here.
I think that as long as the sister was fine with it, there is no problem. and, isn't it better that her daughter learn either that the hairstyle was fantastic (makes it easy for future hair decisions) or decides after that it's not so great (teachable moment)? as someone who grew up with 0 freedom over things, now my impulse control is worse than it ever would have been if i had more freedom to learn what works and what doesn't.
Load More Replies... No, if you look at violent crime incidents they overlap MORE with conservative areas or areas impoverished by conservatism. Look. The "South" has the most violent crime. PS I realise canada isnt usa but it's easier to make the point where we know which areas are conservative. overall-98...de5b1d.jpg 
I applaud her letting the children make choices on what toys or clothing they want (my son wanted a doll house for Christmas a few years ago while my doctor wanted dinosaurs and Marvel action figures) but I agree with those saying that the 'just ignore the bad behaviour' bit may bite her in the a**e. It may work when they are young but not so much when those teenage hormones kick in and they deliberately start to test their boundaries.
Did you miss the bit where she said she'd adjust her approach if needed in future?
Load More Replies... "Be the parent you wish you had" is excellent advice. I also always explained to my daughter why certain behavior was inappropriate. Children are better equipped to think through the consequences of their actions after you've explained consequences for years.
Be the parent you wish you had, lemme give you a bad example: My bfs mom used to have super toxic parents. Authoritarian and lots of screaming and punishment. So she became the parent she wished she had and was super laissez-faire with her son and gave lots and lots of praise. To the point that he, my now bf, is disappointed in her for not teaching her how to do household chores/cooking and not having taught how share space (aka taking responsibility in a shared household) with someone else. He has a hard time accepting compliments ("there was a compliment inflation with my mom") and has difficulties giving them...so I'd say that in general the statement is correct and good in nature but in reality...well, depends on people's self awareness....
Load More Replies... So long as her kids are well-adjusted and well-behaved, and don't cause problems for others (other than their not conforming to gender norms or not allowing people to force hugs on them), then I'd say she's doing just fine. I can understand that Grandma wants to hug her grandkids, but mom absolutely has a point in that they're going to have a much better sense of self, boundries and consent by not forcing them to hug her if they don't want to. I think Grandma is just butthurt about it, honestly. Kids are little people, not property.
So your Mom's ACTUAL complaint is that you are not training them to love her no matter what a bitch she is. Yeah, ignore her and do you.
The problem is the current age we live in having changed some things. In my parents generation it was 'beat your kids into silence, make them conform to the social mold, and tell them what to do and how to live for the rest of their lives'. Nowadays people have broken away from the conformist style of living we did for generations and are trying new forms of parenting and living. I think the grandmother isn't able to adjust or account for that yet, she's stuck on the old-school style of raising a family. Grandma is insistent she wants hugs, this could be the old-school thing of children are just property to we can kiss, hug and abuse them whenever we want to; or, if grandpa is dead/was never around/is an unemotional person, the grandmother may be desperately seeking to replace the affection she should be getting from her spouse with the affection she wants from her grandchildren. Loneliness can turn us into nasty people, she may be suffering with this.
The kids don't owe it to her however. She must earn it or join a bridge club.
Load More Replies... Yeah, the only problem I saw was the not responding to bad behavior part. People will respond to their bad behavior for the rest of their lives. You're teaching them that something is wrong with other when they don't just ignore the bad behavior.
Sounds to me like she's following relatively old Behaviourist data which suggests that ignoring people who misbehave gives them "negative conditioing" and stops the behaviour. In fact it doesn't work, it causes escalation.
Load More Replies... I have been a teacher for 14 years now, and can say that children with this type of upbringing are often problematic in a classroom situation.
So am I, and my kids are at a school where this is ENTIRELY their way of working and guess what? Zero bullying, consistent A+ grades. That's a sample size of 400. So let's not assume that not fitting in with conventional classrooms (AKA pink floyd's brick in the wall), is wise.
Load More Replies... I like what she is doing, I'm parenting mostly the same way. However, I don't ignore bad behavior. My kids get time outs, toys or snacks taken away, etc with a lot of communication. We're currently doing a reward chart with my oldest and that cuts down on a lot of time outs, I just remind her she will get a sticker. Zero negative reinforcement will not go well for very long so I hope she is quick to change her parenting styles when the time comes. While this is just one aspect, I've seen parents who didn't care about their kids grades at all until high school. Free reign, no cares given. HS grades will make or break your future in Korea so they suddenly care and put tons of pressure on their kids. It doesn't work, it's too late. Parents end up literally crying to the teacher, telling us we can hit their children. Anything to get their grades up... Gotta start caring and setting boundaries when they are younger...
You're not doing what she is doing. I think she is doing respectful parenting, which doesn't include reward charts, or arbitrary punishment.
Load More Replies... So she ignores their bad behavior, meaning everyone else around them has to put up with it. That is not being a responsible parent. All the self choosing and no touching I'm all for, but discipline your brat when they misbehave.
no.. she redirects their bad behavior and praises them for good behavior.
Load More Replies... I don't mind anything written here, however one sentence puzzled me in context of the whole article. You wrote you were going to put your son in suit because tiny suits are cute. So wait, he didn't have saying till your sister asked you to give him dress? Because that's exactly how it sounds. Maybe I'm picking on details but that single sentence changed the context pretty rapidly and I don't understand it (yes, it's possible to make negative picture but that's not my intention, sometimes small things mean something sometimes they don't). Wish I could ask you, it made me think way too hard.
I agree with her parenting techniques. I've raised my daughter the same way, explaining why and it works. Just because they're children doesn't mean they can't think and reason. They need to for when they're older. You can't just explain later when they are "old enough". There will never be an old enough. As for when they are teenagers and deliberately test their boundaries? They do that their whole life. Just hope you've raised them right. And those kids will be incredibly adapted and inclusive. Just wish the rest of the world could be. Keep raising kids like that and we will be! Who thought up pants for men, dresses for women anyway? Why do we have to strictly adhere to that dress code? Get with the times. Other cultures aren't so restrictive, by the way. Just saying.
In Arabia, and some places like india, in formal religious wear, men wear long skirts, and in scotland, men wear short skirts called kilts. This thing of pants = boys is specifically a gaulish and possibly farsi heritage, it is NOT inherent in genetics! In africa, certainly, tribal wear for men is loincloths or long skirts (kanga). The pants thing is entirely from europe.
Load More Replies... My mom is bothered by some of my parenting choices, specifically that I treat my kid with respect and allow them to make as many decisions about their life as they're able to at their age. I mostly ignore, though I'm a bit saddened by the fact that she's ruining her relationship with her grandchild. My dad knows that his ability to have a relationship with his grandchild at all isn't guaranteed, so he keeps his mouth shut. I wouldn't take parenting advice from either of them - I know how their kids turned out.
I really cringed from being hug-kiss-kiss by relatives on one side of my fam as a kid, but... it was good training for smiling through other things I'd like to scream about.
If the children are happy and know how to behave when necessary, then why worry?
And how do we really know that? Because she said so? I `ve known many parents who claim their children are perfect but I also have seen those ``angels`` in action, so what is really the truth?
Load More Replies... I want her to adopt me, my parents seem to think forcing me to be effeminate and "act like a girl" will make me WANT to be effeminate, while it does the opposite, and they are borderline abusive with their punishments for bad behavior, while good behavior goes unnoticed and unrewarded, not even the smallest amount of praise.
If we like it or not there are also norms for the world. I thought I saw an article on here about a dad not taking his daughter to a wedding cause she wouldn’t dress up and everyone praised him. Of course no issue with the children dressing in a different gender if it’s appropriate. But it sounds like this mom is going too far in the let them live. My kids knew from a little age there may be events where they dress up when they don’t want to, or have to pretend to like a dish (at least take a bit or two and push it around lol) or be bored out of their mind where the still need to behave. there is a big balance as adults to take care of our needs while still respecting those around us. It’s important to start practicing even as a child
In this case, the kids did dress up for the wedding, in a way that the bride approved.
Load More Replies... I'm an autistic parent to a daughter. I was a tomboy, however, I'm glad my mother reinforced stereotypes of my sex by offering an array of toys and clothes but dressing me appropriately for formal events within society. She taught me the difference between my formal and personal life. I think there's a balance to be struck in discipline and you need to set the boundaries. Adults should be setting appropriate limits for children and working with them in this, you seem to think your progressive and actually you're teaching them to do whatever they want (regressive.) Gender games are cruel when you're feeding them directly into a billion pound industry of sex change.. there's an explosion of children wanting to change gender because PSHE now teaches gender ideology as fact from 2020, when we are a sexually dimorphic species. After puberty most peoples dysphoria remits we aim to forfill our biological function of passing on genes, you're creating victims of the system. Grandma knows.
I agree with you that the dismorphia thing is a risk. However I don't see that wearing a skirt is an issue. Ask the scots. Men there wear skirts at formal occasions and no-one would dare criticise a scot on his dress or putative gender. That's how you'd get an IRN BRU shoved sideways up your a**e. Moreover, by imposing gender norms from society you are perpetuating those gender norms uncritically. I'd suggest you look at which aspects you want to perpetuate.
Load More Replies... You're raising children to be good adults, not your friends. Be a parent.
Is a good adult a person who conforms to black and white binary thinking, kisses their gran, and wears the expected clothing? Or is that a conformist who joins armies, votes for the conservative option, and goes on to perpetuate injustices in society? How about thinking about WHAT aspects of "good adults" are in fact good and should be perpetuated? I'm not sure all of them ARE good.
Load More Replies... In my experience I have only seen that approach backfire with my SIL, but I am one experience and that doesn't make or break the system. My SIL has 2 kids and would ignore or redirect their attention as toddlers but when they got older the kids felt free to scream, throw, or run and do whatever they wanted. She attempted to change and become an authority but they would literally fight back. Those kids are 15 and 12 respectfully and are terrors. They honestly have no respect for anyone but sadly the oldest got kicked out school for bullying and then was arrested for shop lifting. I was in court with my family as support but when they were sent off for 2 years due to priors the look on their face said it all...honestly I don't think they felt they would ever get in trouble. The youngest is a bit quieter and has slowed down on attitude but the family is damaged. I left out their genders so people couldn't assume anything and you would be surprised. The family is affluent as well.
Mom is right. As long as they are healthy and safe, it is important to respect a child's feelings, thoughts, and preferences. No child should ever be forced be physical with anyone. That is a very dangerous precedent and would not be expressing love toward grandma either. Rest of family needs to respect mom's style of parenting. There is no one right way to parent a child.
NTA. My kids are similar. People always mistake them for girls despite the dinosaur shirts and blue pants. Idiots. Conservatives must just grow up, who cares what gender a person looks like. If you want the world to be black and white for you to be comfortable, that is your problem. Not mine, not my kids. My kids behave well in public. Any misbehaviour and we discuss it nicely. No need for violence at all. Ignoring bad behaviour isn't cool, they need to know that others don't like it, so catch the kid by the arm and say hey, by the way, no one likes that behaviour. And yes, good that they've been taught boundaries already. We say no to violence, excessive inappropriate diet, excessive screen time, plastic junk, etc. They know what no means. BE THE CHANGE.
Gosh your under 6 kid decided she wanted a shaved head and you did it. How exactly did that come about ? Mom on the laptop and MOM came across a photo of someone with a shaved head and asked her very young child if she liked it and then mom shaved her little girls head. You made that choice free style mom. Not that poor little girl. Cause Children that age do not understand the complexities of what MOM was trying to prove. And you are clearly trying to prove something to the world and are using your small innocent children to do it. What's next ? Is the kid going to be rocking full arm tats at 7. This has nothing to do with a free style of parenting . This is uneducated poor parenting. The only thing I agree with is not pushing gender norms or forcing hugs. But the mother is going to screw her children up big time . At this young age children need guidance and rules. That is how they learn to live as civilized human beings in this big wide world. Their brains are still absorbing and learning. How are they going to function at school. They will be expected to follow the rules. Gosh I guess free style mommy will teach her kids that it is OK to question authority and to tell her teachers to go f**k themselves if they don't agree with way things are run.
Considering how much she's been circling the gender thing, her daughter may be trans. In which case they might want to have short hair and dress in boy's clothes. The world doesn't end if a girl has short hair. I'm literally the only woman in my family with long hair. Everyone is doing just fine.
Load More Replies... You may have to use a similar technique on your mother. "No, they don't hate you, they just don't want to be hugged." "No, they don't hate you, but they have no interest in the gifts you chose. They would love your asking about what they like." You may even give her a few small ill chosen gifts and tell her yoi got something you liked, so you were sure she'd like them too.
The grandmother calling them ""[potential] snowflakes" is all you need to know about the type of person they are.
I would like to revisit this family to see how she adjusts when the kids are 15 and 12. Not being negative, just curious.
I recall as a child be allowed decisions on my own about clothes, food etc...However, those first six years or so of life set the tone for the next 80. Children must function in the world and develop coping skills. I work with teenagers just out of high-school who have been raised this way. The result is uneven. Most of the young people I deal with have had too much autonomy aneven though mom is not there giving them options, they think they set the options. Life is full of things we have to do that we don't want to do, and if a parent does set exceptions to free will life can be very hard for them later. Daily chores that effect no one else are fine. But accommodating others wishes at a wedding is a must. The adults must dress appropriately, so must the children. I was taught such things growing up and it served me well. Adapting to age and behavior changes may be tough down the road as the mothers method does not include strong consequences or even tears. Both of these things are something children must learn to work through. At the beginning of every semester I encounter kids who can cope and those who won't. And I've yet to be wrong about those who drop out. I hope this young mother finds more balance.
This is me. This is my parents. I'm 54... turned out fine. My parents belivied in me and my opinion... and that made an adult with opinions, voice, education etc.... and also my parents backup always! Keep on the good work..
My friend's cousin does JUST this and her kids are not the little bastions of lovely children SHE thinks they are. I get the impression this is all more about HER ego, her childhood pain and less about the kiddos. She has not adapted yet and the kids get a little worse each time I see them. I think most PEOPLE not just children appreciate parameters and knowing the rules makes for a more secure human.
Honestly don't care anymore. I'm a therapist and if there is any issues in their adulthood... well there's some new client for me so... yeah
I don't have a dog in this fight, so you do you, and everyone is different, so this might end up just fine, but it's taking a hell of a risk. The penalty for failure is literally your children's future, so I sincerely hope this works out well for all of you. For what I've seen, kids need boundaries to bounce against, not in the "this is why I'm strict" kind of way, but in the "kids need to learn how the society they live in operates" kind of way. For better or worse we don't live in a society that ignores bad behavior and rewards good behavior, our society is almost the exact opposite, and these kids might be in for a hard adjustment when they start to be held responsible for their decisions and actions. Good luck, I hope this ends well.
The "Clothing and genders... actual professionals..." raises a lot of questions. Gender dysphoria which require professional help for 3-year olds?
This parenting works for her and her children and don't hurt anyone, so there is no problem. NTA
I don't get how additional punishment is teaching something? How many times have you been punished because of your wrong choices or actions since being adult? Except the fact that you have to live with consequences, for me it's kind of horrible to wait for extra punishment just so you can learn something...
I appreciate the fact that everyone wants to be different. That everyone wants to be special and "above" the crowd. But we don't live alone, on a mountain with no contact with other people. We live in a society and society, while "elastic" also infers certain standards. Telling or raising your children as though they are above societal norms does not instill pride or the ability to create a viable and worthwhile life style, it creates people who expect the world to conform to them, which means they expect society and people to conform to them. We call those people entitled and one of the greatest "put downs" on this site is "entitled." You are not raising "free thinkers" you are raising the entitled. Because they are NOT going to be children all their lives, despite what they may think, they are going to have to grow up and live in the real world with other people. And people will not give them a "pass" because they are "entitled."
I think there's a difference between giving kids the ability to decide, within reason, and raising them to be entitled. For me, entitled means something like cutting queues, being disrespectful to waiters, expecting a servant to iron your shirts, etc. I agree that she's probably wrong on the control of bad behaviour, but beyond that I think it's ok. As for fitting in with society, I think that's super over-rated. There's a difference between conforming to reasonable norms - like which side of the road you drive on, like queueing in a shop, like holding a door for anyone, like not sneezing in peoples' faces - but I think that forcing boys to have short hair, wear blue, and girls to have long hair, and wear pink, is not even ridiculous, it's downright pathetic.
Load More Replies... Ya know, kids who aren't abused grow up to be more intelligent than kids who are abused
or it could just be that smart parents don't abuse their kids. Causation/correlation problem.
Load More Replies... Young person whos brain isnt fully developed thinking she is an expert on children after having one immediately after legally not being considered a child her self anymore. This bull s**t about not enforcing gender norms on your children is in turn forcing your ideas on them, one parent has their son in blue and car toys and daughter in pink and dresses and dolls and the other parent is having them wear ugly non gender specific clothing and think that having their son own dolls will have them choose their own gender. I Had girl cabbage patch kids as a child and played barbies with my sisters as well as playing He man with my brother. I realized I prefer to play on my own and have been a Baby Whisperer since I was a teenager. As well as spending years training in different martial arts.
Load of poo. This lady couldn't respect her sister enough to have her kids wear the appropriate outfits at her sister's wedding? That's so disrespectful 😒 eye roll. I'm all about kids having choices, but letting your kid shave his/her head just because they have no sense of impulse control is ridiculous. My kid says he wants cake and marshmallows for breakfast, am I going to give it to him? Hell no. He will be complaining of a stomach ache 20 minutes later. I'm not going to give it to him and wait for natural consequences... I'm done here.
I think that as long as the sister was fine with it, there is no problem. and, isn't it better that her daughter learn either that the hairstyle was fantastic (makes it easy for future hair decisions) or decides after that it's not so great (teachable moment)? as someone who grew up with 0 freedom over things, now my impulse control is worse than it ever would have been if i had more freedom to learn what works and what doesn't.
Load More Replies... No, if you look at violent crime incidents they overlap MORE with conservative areas or areas impoverished by conservatism. Look. The "South" has the most violent crime. PS I realise canada isnt usa but it's easier to make the point where we know which areas are conservative. overall-98...de5b1d.jpg
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