As a woman, you sometimes notice how some people don’t get it. You just don’t approach a woman pumping gas at a station minding her business, especially when its dark. Similarly, you never try to pick up a woman at a gym who’s clearly busy exercising.
And in any occasion, you do not expect an explanation why a woman doesn’t want to talk to you. There’s no ‘why’ and ‘how,’ because every individual has a right to ‘just be’ and to keep to themselves ‘just because.’
Frustratingly, not everyone realizes that. Recently, Redditor Metallicmuffin asked women “What things do men do that frighten you without them even realizing it?” and the thread hit close to home for many people. The stories started rolling in, each one more eyebrow-raising than the one before it, making the thread go viral with 35.6k upvotes and 16.3k comments.
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Standing too close. How do you know if it's too close? I'll back up half a step, DON'T match it.
One Redditor who goes by the nickname Several-Stable-9051 shared how “wanting to take me somewhere isolated to be just the two of us on the first date” makes her feel very uncomfortable. In a post shared in response to this bread, the woman wrote: “It’s okay if we’ve been hanging out for a while, but not if it’s the first time I see you in person. Whenever this happens I come up with an excuse not to go. I just don’t feel safe since I barely know the other person, but the worst part is when they try so hard to convince me to go with them.”
Demanding justification for every no, and when it's given, arguing about how my reasons aren't valid.
Not taking no for an answer. Especially when they pretend to be jokey about it but you can clearly tell they’re kind of pissed…if that makes sense.
I hope they understand that the word 'no' in itself is a complete sentence.
We reached out to Several-Stable-9051 who shared some insights into what men’s behavior makes her and fellow women feel vulnerable, threatened, and uncomfortable. “Being in an isolated place with someone you see for the first time is very risky for your own safety. You can chat with that person and think, from the way that they text you, that they’re the sweetest and kindest soul you’ve ever met. However, in real life, they might unexpectedly turn out to be a dangerous and frightening person.”
Joking about r*pe. Just makes me think you have r*pe on the brain.
I met a couple dudes at a bar who invited me and my friend to a party they were headed to. We were trying to find a polite way to turn them down when one said, "Don't worry, we're not going to r*pe you. Ha, ha!" We turned him down flat, and not kindly (thankfully we were next to the bouncer) and his friend said, "dude! What the f**k is wrong with you?!" My question too.
Pushing my wheelchair to "help" me and be a "gentleman". You're literally abducting me - it's no different from my perspective that you picking up an able-bodied woman and running off with her.
Is it so hard to ASK if someone needs a hand before grabbing something?
Going to the bar to get you a drink without you there to watch the bartender pour it. If I don't know you well, I won't accept a drink from your hands... Ever. Straight from the bartender to me.
It's absolutely disgusting that women have to think like that. 100% understandable considering the creeps out there. Just horrible that the situation even exists.
This is because social media doesn’t represent reality, Several-Stable-9051 argues. “Very often we hear on the news hundreds of stories about people getting beaten, robbed, kidnapped, raped or even killed by someone they knew online and thought to be trustworthy,” she explained and added that “sadly, the majority of these victims are women.”
Oh god I had one of these guys, he “opened” the train door for me to get off (it opens automatically) and so I said “thanks”. Apparently he took that as an invitation, because he then followed me through the station trying to talk to me. I was polite but dismissive. He was creeping me out so I stopped to top up my metro card even though I didn’t need to. He stopped and waited for me. I pretended I didn’t see him.
He then followed me out of the station asking me where I lived (I lied) and then asked me if I had a boyfriend (I said yes). He then asked if I had Facebook (I didn’t answer) and then asked me if my boyfriend had my Facebook password?? He then told me “you don’t need to be scared of me, I just want to be friends.”
By this stage I was fully freaked and was texting my boyfriend about it. I didn’t want to go to my bus stop in case he followed me home, so I walked to the most populated street I could find, still ignoring him while he followed me. Eventually I went into a supermarket and thankfully lost him.
I have never spoken to a man on a train or at a station ever again. I don’t even make eye contact.
Blocking the doorway - especially during an argument. Ex did that and would make himself bigger (spreading his arms etc) so I couldn’t leave the room.
I was late getting my driver’s license and hired a professional driving instructor to help me learn to drive. He was a guy about my age and he was openly hitting on me. It was so uncomfortable. It was just us in the car and I was in such a vulnerable position as a novice driver depending on him for support. I didn’t want him to think I was interested but I also was terrified to be rude to him because he was in control. It was a terrible experience and actually set me back several more years from driver training.
Just need to add as well, since there are presumably men here reading to learn what not to do: learn how to notice hesitation. You’ll never understand the intense pressure to be nice, polite, and even feign some form of interest as a method of self-preservation. It is a survival tactic and it works, just about all of us have gotten out of a volatile situation this way. If a woman is avoiding eye contact, seems to hesitate to answer (especially personal questions), or is agreeing with you a lot without attempting to carry the conversation, she is hoping you’ll leave her alone. Interested women make eye contact, share willingly, and try to joke around or otherwise show their personality. If you’re not sure, tell her you’re going to another location in whatever establishment you’re in (“I’m going to grab a drink/go outside for a smoke/go back to my table”) and invite her to join you. If she comes along, green light. If she takes the out and makes an excuse to leave, you have your answer.
I just can’t believe this needs to be explained. But boy does it.
According to Several-Stable-9051, if she goes somewhere isolated with someone she doesn’t know personally, the chances of getting rescued if something happens are very low. Therefore, as a woman, she feels comfortable in public areas, like bars, “where everyone can hear me and come rescue me in case I need help.”
She also shared a couple of other men’s behavior that makes her very uncomfortable and violated, especially when dating. “Speaking from my own experience, something that makes me really uncomfortable is when the other person tries to touch me without my consent, like rubbing their hands on my thighs or putting their hands on my waist and not removing them even though they notice I’m getting really uncomfortable.”
The way a guy talks about a woman he doesn't find attractive is so unbelievably revealing about who they are as a person. I've been able to witness some of these conversations as I lived with a guy who was like this and it both frightened me and saddened me.
Just because someone is not desirable to you, it does not make them less of a human being. They are as deserving of respect as everyone else.
Not going away when I have made it abundantly clear that I am not interested.
My experience was the person didn't just not go way. He literally chased me wherever I go that it gave me a panic attack.
Wanting to take me somewhere isolated to be just the two of us on the first date. It’s okay if we’ve been hanging out for a while, but not if it’s the first time I see you in person. Whenever this happens I come up with an excuse not to go. I just don’t feel safe since I barely know the other person, but the worst part is when they try so hard to convince me to go with them. This makes me feel more and more uncomfortable.
Edit: ooookay I’ve read some of your comments and I think I have to clarify some things. What I intended was that I make up an excuse not to go to THAT specific isolated place, which means that I actually go to dates and propose to go to public places instead. I’ve never ghosted anyone and I’ve tried to tell truth and make the other person understand that I didn’t feel comfortable. Something I’ve been told many times is: “What do you mean by "I don't feel comfortable"? Do you think I'm a crazy psychopath who rapes or kills people? Come on don't say nonsense, let's go, get in the car.” I mean, is this supposed to make me feel safe? By the way they react it seems like I’m offending them, which is clearly not my intention. That’s why I started making up excuses, because they stop insisting only when they know that something bigger is preventing me from going. I’m fully aware of the fact that not everyone has bad intentions, but it’s not something I can understand immediately the first time I hang out with someone. Besides I don’t blame those who are simply clueless. My comment was just sharing a personal experience, not a general attack on men, and you can tell by the fact that I used “they” and “the other person” instead of “he”. Both men and women can experience this kind of things, and I welcome everyone’s story.
For those who commented using not very kind words, please stop trying to make me look like I’m just a paranoid woman who can’t tell the truth. And thanks to those who shared their experiences and opinions under what is one of my first comments here, I really appreciated all these interactions! Stay safe y’all!
Why would *any* woman meet a man for the first time anywhere *except* a public place with lots of people? It's a basic safety precaution.
It’s a safety precaution that has been known and passed on for well over 100 years. I can attest to that because of own family. My mother graduated high school in 1938, and married my father in 1941. When I was 15 and going on my first date, she told me, her youngest child and only daughter, never to accept a date from someone who wants to go anywhere that’s not public, never get in a car with a date you don’t feel comfortable with so always carry taxi or bus fare home. When you’re older and have your license, you drive yourself to and from the date so you’re not dependent on him for anything, plus you can make an excuse and leave any time you want. If you’re walking home and someone is following you too closely, cross the street and head for a crowded area or find a cop. If you can get to a phone, call home if you’re uncomfortable or he has tried something you don’t want, like to kiss you, or block you from leaving, or saying lewd stuff—-she said to remember that you have a father and four older brothers who will come and get you and give the creep a severe “talking to”. This was coming from a woman who herself was told the same stuff by her mother and older sister, back when she was 15 in 1935. Her mother had married her father in 1899, and was told the same things, modified for her time of course, when she started going on dates unchaperoned. Women have ALWAYS had to be careful when dealing with men on dates or at parties or in crowds or other functions men would go to also. Thankfully, it’s no longer some kind of secret or being swept under the rug, which is probably why so many unthinking men are getting so pissy about it, and and claiming they’re being bashed—-and claiming it happens to men too, even though those statistics are tiny in comparison. You’re not being attacked or bashed, guys, we’re letting you know what happens to us, as a way of telling you to step up and help when you see it happening, to stop doing it yourself, and to loudly and publicly call out your friends when you see them doing it too. (Sorry my comment is so lengthy.)
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Her edit makes makes me feel sick. That many people got mad at her on a post for being uncomfortable with isolated spots? She doesn't need to explain herself. No can also just mean no. No from being even slightly unsure still means no.
You have to wonder if many of the comments were one incel with multiple accounts. (Or hope it is since it's common sense not to go some where isolated with a stranger. Who would be offended aside from creepy people?)
Load More Replies... Anyone commenting negatively about this it THAT guy who is offended and starts to protest that he's not an axe murderer. And even in less creepy situations, like you're working in a shop and someone insisting that you give them something and they will bring the money later, and then getting offended that you take them to be dishonest. Don't be offended. Just accept that if someone doesn't know you, they don't know you. They just don't know if you're a great guy, if you're trustworthy. They don't assume you're a POS, but from their point of view it's just as possible as the opposite. It's not personal. It's reasonable.
The fact that this person had to write the edit in the first place is ridiculous. I see that all the time on subreddits that were created SPECIFICALLY FOR WOMEN with women feeling that they need to apologize because some butthurt men got offended.
Also, asking to meet at his apartment/house on a first date. Sometimes a guy is like 'I want to cook you dinner' or something and it could be completely sweet, but you should never do that. If I don't know you, I'm not going to your place alone. And I don't really want you at mine yet either. Adding to that, there's this ridiculous idea- at least in the US- that you have sex on the third date. So if a guy is asking to come over my place or wants me to come over his on a third date I assume he expects sex and that get's me annoyed. Don't pressure anyone based on that kind of thing because it just proves all you care about is the sex part. Yes sex is important but if I met you a week ago, I kind of want to know you a little bit. If all you're looking for is sex there are plenty of places to get that without strings attached. Don't pretend you're looking for a girlfriend if you aren't.
The right time for sex is when you BOTH FEEL COMFORTABLE, 1st date, 3rd date 6 weeks later 3 months or when you get married it's something you SHOULD discuss . It's not the same for everyone at every stage of life
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Gotta love the world we live in where a woman has to justify & defend her choice not to go somewhere *isolated* with someone she barely knows!
As soon as a guy starts challenging my safety requirements I'm done with him. Whether he is a psycho or not, he's not an understanding person. Next!
The fact that she had to explain herself again because people in the comments were getting offended says a lot about why we need to take these precautions already.
First date? Coffee shop at a decent hour with plenty of people around.
Love the coffee shop date. No long dinner to sit through if you don't vibe, if you do you can do something else afterwards.
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Honestly the edit wasn’t necessary. We have a habit of explaining ourselves to men who whine about our resistance. It’s not necessary or required.
No paranoia here, just good common sense. Anyone, man or woman, who does not understand the reasons for a woman to not put herself in an isolated location with, essentially, a stranger, and continue to insist it is ok are at best clueless. At worst, if a man, somewhat emotionally abusive. If a woman, a potential victim. My daughter and granddaughter would never do this on first meeting someone.
The fact that you would have to edit your post to explain yourself is really disturbing.
Anyone who expects you to explain/defend your response (either dates or commenters) are idiots and deserve the following, "What part of "no" don't you understand."
My mother and I (adult w/children) went on vacation in RD while my husband was in China. We accepted someone's offer to show us around - he has a horse and open carriage for a good price. First he stopped somewhere and wanted money to buy candy for the school children (I have him 1/2 of what he wanted), then he stopped somewhere in the middle of nowhere and there was a table, a fridge and a lean-to. He invited us to get down the carriage and eat a meal. We just looked at each other and both thought how stupid we were. My mother who doesn't speak much French (she didn't want the guy to understand) starts telling me what she imagine what would happen to us if we get down: drugged drinks, place to hide our body, etc. We declined but he kept insisting he needed to rest the horses. We didn't budge. The ride ended not long after that. OMG, we were so scared! I called my husband in China when we came back to our room. Didn't care about the price or the time zone.
OP. Who ever made you feel you had to explain that was a man being a sh*t head. No. Is enough. If someone makes you uncomfortable it is OK to Ghost them. You owe Nothing to these people. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. You in fact owe nothing to no one. And if someone makes you feel creeped out. Trust your feels. Ghost if you feel the need. Explaining why only makes them hide their creepy better so the next person questions themselves more. If we trusted our gut we'd be in less abusive situations. But "not all. Men" Is a phrase designed to make us trust ourselves less. All.men until all. Men are trying to stop it.
I don't think ghosting is a good idea. Explain why they come off as creepy. They might not realize they are doing something wrong. If they argue after you explain, then ghost them, but don't just leave them to simmer in hatred with no clue why. If enough people tell them what the problem is, maybe they'll think about it and stop doing the creepy thing? (Chances are they'll get angry and be an a*****e about it, but you never know.)
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Should be absolutely no need to explain/edit. And I 100% agree... after the first couple of times of people not taking "no" or "let's meet in public" then why not change tactics. I'm assuming the folks that negatively commented are the same ones that have zero clue how women feel in these situations. Yes, there are good men out there and they absolutely wouldn't question this either. If they do... run.
At first, if it is suggested, and refused and if it is accepted without argument and with understanding. That is not a red flag at first. However, if on the same date, the suggestion comes up again, that is a red flag. If the guy does not take no for an answer and is pushy about getting somewhere to be alone, run for the hills.
One of the things I think people lose track of: it is not every man that hurts women. Hell, it's not even most men. Really most men are fine, many are incredible. But the damage done by those few can take a lifetime to repair.
That's not the point. The point isn't to pat the "good guys" on the back. The point is, there are so many violent men out there, this post has included not only the original poster's experience, but also tons of women replying with their own similar experiences with downright scary, entitled men. If "most men are fine, many are incredible," there wouldn't be THIS many women reporting otherwise. Some women don't even report it, because they don't know if that "potentially incredible man" might find them, and make them pay for it with their life.
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Okay. The fact that OP had to use more words to explain and justify what she originally said because of the men responding with indignation is a huge indicator of the problem.
I'm guilty of this. I was talking to another woman i worked with for a bit but we only ever saw each other at work. I finally asked her out and my dumb a*s asked her to go hiking at a super remote place. I wasn't even thinking about the implications, just that i love that spot so much and it's so beautiful that I want to share it. After she was half joking like "ummm are you taking me to the woods to kill me?" I was like uhhh... How about the zoo instead. She said yes and we had a great time. A few months later she told me she was super scared when i suggested the hike. Me = idiot.
The fact this lady had to clarify anything shows how out of touch the commenters were.
I used to not do this and I have gotten in some really bad situations. I actually had to run away from a date. He was psychotic, aggressive and terrifying. Most men aren't like this, but some are and we're smaller than you so just let us do some basic things to protect ourselves from that possibility. We'll get to know you, feel safe and then we can go on dates in private.
Trolls won, by forcing you to add such a long edit. You do not need to explain yourself to anyone. Ever. If they say stupid s**t, let them.
Any man whose response to wanting to meet someplace public isn't "oh of course, duh, I should have thought about that" isn't someone I would want to pursue a relationship with. My only problem with the OP is that she decided to make excuses rather than straight up say "I'd rather meet someplace public like [coffeeshop/bar/restaurant/busy park]" to avoid discomfort and spare these guys' feelings. It should be a screening item!
There is zero reason to meet aman in a remote area unless you know who they are...know know... what they are about and ur cool with it.
I totally get this! What is wrong with you haters? Some guy I'd never met in person (yeah - a friend of a friend. Great friend.) wanted to PICK ME UP AT MY HOUSE, you know like - where my children live? And was obviously pissed when I told him I don't give my address to strangers. I let him rant for a minute or two and then just calmly told him, your reaction tells me everything I need to know about you & I have no desire to meet you in person. Please lose my number. My (ex) friend was really upset because "he's such a great guy" and I had hurt his feelings. Really? That "great guy" was arrested for attempted rape not six months later. Listen to your instincts.
yikes, I can't believe you had to defend yourself on this, that's a major warning sign from someone!
That she felt she had to defend herself after telling this story says a lot about the person commenting, & some people are clearly missing the fact they are demonstrating creepy, possessive, insecure, bullying, & abusive behavior. They have missed the point. Entirely. Your ego & entitlement just got in the way.
Even a lot of guys don't feel comfortable with that sort of thing, and the kind of language a person uses really reveal what their true intentions are.
First comment I ever placed on bored panda. Your edit feels like you need to justify any behavior you ever acted on when feeling unsafe. Sweety, there is absolutely no need to and anyone saying any unkind thing about this just hasn’t had this experience. This is what a lot of women go through, a lot! And having the strength to be honest like that just makes you someone I wish I was at a younger age. When it comes to stuff like this, there is just no need to be nice about it anymore. I’ve been nice enough for too many years to too many creeps.
When I don't know where a woman's comfortability is, and the first date is a dead ringer, I give public and more private options and let her choose. Rinse repeat until I know where we are.
The fact op had to edit and explain something that's pretty basic is sad. Like nobody should go to a isolated area with a stranger for a first date. Not sure why that made people upset with her.
You don't have to explain yourself on this one. Anyone worth your time will respect your decision to meet somewhere public. If they don't, their loss and you get to move on. My husband was one of the first guys who was the one to propose going somewhere public the first few dates to make sure I felt comfortable. No pressure, no guilt. They're our there, and if you feel you have to make up an excuse to not go somewhere isolated because they don't get why it would make you uncomfortable, move right along!
I am the exact same way, and I'm pretty blunt about the fact that I'm not comfortable. If the first thing out of anyone's mouth (potential girl and guy friends as well) is anything but "oh I understand. We can go *insert public place* or do you have a place in mind?" they are more than likely not going to be talking to me after that.
Dude, when I was in my 20s I met a lot of people online, and when we made plans to meet up in person, I would literallly ask, "Are you going to tie me up in a closet and pour bleach on me?" You can't effing trust anyone.
Better safe than sorry, as the saying goes. I mean, the victims found out in isolated spots don't get there by coincidentally teleporting there.
Never, ever, ever go someplace private on a first date unless you feel 1000% comfortable with it. No excuses necessary. Them insisting you go when you say your not comfortable with it is a huge red flag. Any man who does not respect no, or understand why women prefer to meet strange men in public, is not worth your time, and potentially dangerous. Stay safe. That's way more important than "offending" somebody.
Never let someone pick you up at your house. Meet them at a crowded place not bar or club. Go to Applebee’s or one of those places even if you hate it. Have what my friends and I call puma colada and appetizers. Which means just have a meaning one drink and couple appetizer. Safer and they can’t expect anything in return going to an expensive dinner. Drink a fruity drink like a pina colada. Or ask for a virgin one. If the guy birches tries to talk you into a real drink that’s a bad sign he’s trying to get you drunk. Just tell him you may have to work tomorrow/you’re on call. I never tell them what I really do for a living either.
I think our biggest problem is trying to be polite. We're afraid to say something back to a date if we think we're being rude. The manners that I was ingrained with by my Mama are hard to shrug off.
According to Redditor, boundaries are essential, and every single person must respect them. “Also, if they don’t take no for an answer, that makes me feel not only uncomfortable but absolutely terrified,” she added. “What I want everyone who does that to know is this: if you’re aware of the fact that you’re making the other person uncomfortable with your actions and you keep on behaving like that and do absolutely nothing to improve the situation, then you are a bad person to be absolutely avoided,” the woman said.
Years ago I went out with this dude and during snacks and a drink, it was pretty clear we weren't a good match. I politely turned down another round and thanked him. I put my bag over my shoulder and began walking to the bar to pay. Not more than two steps from the table the dude YANKS my purse strap and says
"what no hug?"
Really taken aback, I hugged him and shuffled quickly to pay and get out of there. As I was paying I explained to the waitress whom I knew from another job that the dude was super creepy and asked if I could sneak down the back stairs. She let me go through and I rushed down the backstairs and then outside to my car. Breathing a deep sigh I got out of the parking lot and at the first red light at the corner where the restaurant was....was the creepy dude crossing the street. Without any hint of emotion, he whipped out a pen and wrote my licence plate down on his hand. Never saw him again, that I know of.
Sitting right next to me when I don’t know you and there are plenty of other seats available.
It's like you become aware of every movement, every breath, every sound until they move. My whole body tenses up.
When I was at my thinnest (UK 6) a lot of men I might chat / flirt / go on dates with would talk about how they liked how small I was and they’d love to get their hands on me cos they could imagine how light and limber I would be, that they could lift me up, make shapes with my body, throw me around, have lots of fun essentially use my tiny body for their own gratification etc
They would often laugh and joke around in this manner like I should be so flattered cos, y’know, all every woman wants us a big stwong mayn to take a hold of them and just do whatever the f they want, show us how it’s done, right?!
Disgusting, disturbing and often quite scary. Many men just want to (ab)use a woman like a sex doll and expect to be thanked for it
I'm fat and guys always assume it's okay to be rough because I'm basically a cushion I guess. I hate it, I'm a sensitive person.
She continued: “However, if you really want to change, then learn to respect boundaries, to ask the other person what makes them feel safe and comfortable, to take no for an answer, and to be understanding. Something that you think is trivial might make the other person feel scared for their own life to the extent that they won’t be able to let you know that.” The woman asks men to “pay attention to the other person’s body and act accordingly. It means a lot, especially for women.”
"I don't know why you're acting so cautious. If I wanted to kill you, I would have already done it."
Said to me by a friend of a friend I was meeting because it was his first time in a foreign country.
My stepfather is constantly commenting on how much my daughter (10 yrs old) is growing into a young woman. Once mentioned how pretty she was in her tank top, and it skeeved me out so bad I had her go change. He noticed and said something along the lines of “oh I hope she didn’t do that because of me” Like, yes, dude, she did 😐
I'm a bisexual woman. Doesn't matter who I'm talking to, whether it's just a guy I'm getting to know or a guy I've been on a couple of dates with, EVERY ONE makes the "hehe we should have a threesome" joke. It's not funny. It's not cute. It's a violation of my boundaries and an immediate red flag. Automatically I'm on edge.
Several-Stable-9051 also wanted to clarify that even though the question in the thread was addressed to women men can have the same experiences. “That’s why I always used ‘they’ and ‘the other person.’ Under my post, I found comments from men sharing their own experiences, and I want them to know that their stories are as valid as those of women,” she concluded.
This one may be intentional, but it gives me the absolute creeps when men try to squeeze past me and lightly put their hands on me, especially my waist. I hate it. Just say “excuse me.”
Edit: quite a few people have asked clarifying questions, so I’ll give my thoughts on when it’s okay to touch a woman in a crowded area. (1) Try to just go around her another way. (2) If you can’t, say excuse me. (3) If it’s loud or something and that doesn’t work, sometimes touching just can’t be helped. Either just squeeze past if it’s a packed area, or if you have to lay your hands on her, a firm (but not rough) hand on the shoulder or upper back is likely fine. Lightly tickling the lower back or small of the waist is creepy. Usually if you touch a strange man that way, you might be up for an a*s beating. If you wouldn’t willingly touch some big, strange guy that way (mostly looking at you, straight guys), don’t do it to a woman.
Guy here. Never realized that working alone with no-one else in the store - night or day - can potentially be terrifying. I've opened and closed where I was the only employee in the building and not once have I ever felt in any immediate danger. Some folks I suspected being a bit shady but they never gave me any trouble. Not once did I ever think I could be at significant risk. As a guy, it's just not a thought that ever comes to mind.
I worked for a local business whose owner, 25 years ago, had a man run into his store at around 10am frantically telling him to call the police. Turns out the poor guy went into the adult video store next door and discovered the young female clerk stabbed to death and laying lifeless in a pool of blood on the floor. Details emerged that she was stalked by someone who went to school with her and one day he got fed up with being told "no" and not long after that returned with a knife and killed her. She was lying dead on the floor for at least a half hour before she was discovered... and since adult stores have their windows blocked and doors blocked so no one can see inside, the only way someone could see what happened is they were actually customer who intentionally went inside. Since it was a weekday morning, the store wasn't busy at all.
The case was solved a couple of years ago (after being a nearly 25yo cold case and easily the most high-profile unsolved homicide in our city's history) and I was on shift the day the local news - and cameras - came into my workplace and wanted to speak with my boss. I later learned my boss was the very first person who made the call to 911. He was in the cooler putting an order away and didn't hear the murder take place. My former boss came to Canada from the Middle East about 50 years ago so he's doubt see some s**t over there... and he still ranks this murder as the saddest and most traumatic thing he's personally dealt with.
From day on, he *never* let any staff member work by themselves to close the store again.
I see so many stores with only one, sometimes two, people on duty for the entire store. Doing everything from stocking to cashiering, to cleaning up. All by themselves. WTF would happen if someone decides to rob the store at opening or closing? God damn. That is NO way to run a business.
When men try to show off their “dominance” over you or anyone really. Like when you mention something to a guy about another guy and he goes “I’ll kill anyone who talks to you” it’s quite frightening really.
Not understanding that a polite decline isn't an invitation just to try harder, and is just that, declining to spend more time with the guy.
I know men complain all the time about how women must be communicating in some bizarre code they can't be expected to understand, but a lot of women have been conditioned by experience to decline a man's invitations or attentions in the most polite, face-saving way possible.
I don't think there is a woman out there who hasn't had a man get really angry and threatening when they, the woman, was just trying to say "thanks but no thanks" and move on.
I am not just talking about getting picked up in a bar or on the street. I am talking about any man anywhere who decides he wants a woman's full attention, or wants to give his opinion (on her appearance, attitude, lack of smiling, whatever), at that moment.
It happens so often that you just want to get away from this guy, but they aren't really noticing your (to you) obvious expressions of wanting to leave, and if you get more explicit, you really don't know what will happen. If you stay, you also don't know what will happen, because they might think you are "leading him on."
It feels like a no-win situation, and one a man could use as an excuse (either way) to verbally or physically attack you.
It’s like what part of “NO” do you not understand? No means no means NO! We’re even nice about it, at first, and add “Thank you”, FFS. Learn to read the signals, guys. And get your head out of your fantasy world. Real life is not like porn. Women are not going to just fall in bed with you without thoroughly vetting you first. By “vetting”, I mean making sure you’re compatible, you’re not a creep or potential stalker, you’re not abusive, you’re mature, etc, and especially whether the two of you have a good vibe going. If it’s just not there, it’s just not there. Do as we do after we turn you down——GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON! There’s someone for everyone, so just work on bettering yourself and keep looking until you find them. Cripes, it’s not rocket science.
I'm a guy, but I've been told by women that me raising my voice has been very frightening/triggering.
Oh man, this. If you're a guy, and start yelling, no matter the context, I will start crying. It triggers the scared 6 year old inside of me who was terrified of my father, and I can't handle it. Even talking loudly puts me in defensive mode. I hate yelling and screaming in general, but a man doing it is terrifying. EDIT: wow this has blown up. I didn't realise so many women felt like this and it makes me sad. However I am awed by everyone's reaching out and reacting. I wish you all strenght and good things, and kindness.
Someone saying "where's my hug?" or otherwise trying to imply that they are owed physical contact.
Asking personal questions that have nothing to do with why you are communicating in the first place. Example: getting my muffler welded and being asked by the welder "where do you live? How long have you lived there? Do you have roommates or is it just you?" And about thirty more personal and invasive questions.
So. F*****g. Uncomfortable.
Hovering. Don’t hover behind me. That’s one of the very few things that makes me nervous.
I was in IKEA trying to get a cart where they're kept. I had to go far into the barred area, when I backed up I immediately bumped into someone. It was this old, very tall guy just standing there with a grimace and staring down at me. I told him excuse me but he didn't even move for me. He expected me to somehow manuever around him. This s**t happens so often. One old, fat guy even nearly sat on me on the bus because he wanted the seat. I got up just in time but he sat on a corner of my skirt pulling it down. Creep.
It's not frightening, per se, but it definitely makes me wary because it could lead to situations that *are* frightening...
When talking to a guy, he's super pushy. Like, asking for pics of this and that (and *that*) and even saying no, they're stilly pushy... all that makes me do is not want to meet him. If he's THIS pushy via text/messaging, how pushy is he going to be in person? If he can't take no NOW, what are the odds he can take no in person?
​
I once had a guy DEMAND that I rank my sexual partners. I told him no. I told him "I can't and I won't." Dude flew off the digital handle. I blocked him right then.
Pretending we’re deeper friends than we are, being overly familiar and then acting like they have a “right” to you. Had a guy do this in college. When I told him he didn’t get to dictate who I talk to, he spit his drink in my face. I barely knew him!
Telling me things they would do to me if I didn't have a husband. Being out somewhere and them not letting me leave, not taking no for an answer, telling me that they drive by my home to see if I'm there.
"Idk why you're so nervous. It's not like I'm going to rape you... if I wanted to do that there's nothing you could do to stop me anyways"
UH. the thought hadn't crossed my mind until YOU brought it up unprovoked. FOUR TIMES.
Edit[copied from another comment I made further down to give context to the situation]
Hung out with a guy I knew from back in high-school that I hadn't seen in years. He is physically about 4 times my size and was acting a little strange. [Trying to touch me/ invade my personal space even after i had made it clear i wasn't interested in anything more than friendship] I was nervous and shaking like a leaf trying to figure out how to gently extract myself from the situation. What scared me more than anything was him saying things like " idk why you're so nervous.. it's not like I'm going to rape you"
I thought even though he was overly enthusiastic that I would be safe until he brought up how he - wasnt- going to rape me 4 times. Obviously it made me feel like he must have been considering it :/ thank God I got out of that one safely
Even if it is meant to be comforting, it comes across as threatening and creepy
Note: this post originally had 92 images. It’s been shortened to the top 30 images based on user votes.
So many of these have edits because people tried to destroy them for not being "open" or "expecting the worst." Women do not have to explain their rejection of someone to ANYONE. They can say no for ANY REASON. Anyone fighting that clearly feels like they "deserve" something, which is the exact toxic culture that is being pointed out. These are so hard to read.
It would be lovely if this was part of the conversation in schools instead of how much coal Poland produced in 1967. How to communicate with each other, how to make each other feel more comfortable, how to behave in a social setting, girls and boys alike. Teaching boys that their mere gender WILL make girls uncomfortable in certain situations and to deal with it in a healthy way. A lot of things men do to creep women out ARE unintentional, and the result of either never having experienced a constant background thought of "am I safe?" , or the fact that they feel awkward about the notion of girls being cautious and trying to handle it badly.
By reading the first ten answers I can assure you, it's not "without even realizing that". In most of those cases men really know what thwy're doing and do it to assert their dominance. Maybe some of them don't intentionally scare women, but they want to appear big and "alpha" because they believe that women want that.
I don't think they think that women "want that.' I think this is just how they are?
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common thread through it all: women are objects to be claimed, to be owned by men, that men are entitled to sample, control, handle and peruse at their will, unless the woman is claimed by another man. ALL of this is baked into our culture. 'Smile'. The feeling that they're entitled to sex/physical touch/emotional or physical access of any kind. etc. Men, do better. Everyone, teach the littles to do better and expect more. Cultural shifts don't happen overnight.
Yes, I like the way you put that, baked into the culture. I think, also, some of it is baked into our dna - there must have been some evolutionary advantage for domineering possessiveness over the childbearing members of the group?
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Im a teen girl. I was sitting by myself on a public bench yesterday, and every time a guy walked by i got all tense and nervous. they didn't even do anything i just immediately got scared. maybe it was my anxiety but the fact that women have to just assume strange men are threats in order to stay safe is honestly kinda sad i think
My daughter is 25 and she went to bingo alone the other night. A man sat down in front of her and said hi. At intermission he asked her if she wanted a water or anything and she politely declined. She was texting me the whole time and we were both kind of creeped out. He won twice and gave her $10 for bringing him good luck. We were absolutely sure he was some kind of creeper. I was getting ready to drive to the place and meet her so she didn't go to her car alone. He ended up leaving before the final round , and one of the waitresses told her he's a regular and he's just overly friendly. Security walked her to her car just to be sure. It's sad that somebody can't be nice without scaring young women. There is just too much danger out there
It's like men and kids. A grown man cannot show any interest in a child because he'll be taken as a pedo. It's really sad. Known a guy around 40 who walked through a park, then without thinking stopped to gaze at a kid around 4-5 years old, because they were holding a very thick, large book, like an encyclopedia. He was simply surprised that it's not a kiddie book. A second later two women practically attacked him, and ran him out of the park, screaming pedo, threatening to call police.
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Robert Giese, if you're reading this, I hope your get some good, proper therapy. For a loooong time.
Liking one comment on a random Facebook page.... Then trying to add you as friend and liking every thing on your wall without even engaging a conversation
I was assigned female at birth, and lived the first 30 years of my life presenting mostly as female socially. I was considered "butch" for most of that, so occasionally mistaken for a teenaged boy, but I'm also physically tiny and "conventionally" beautiful so mostly people saw a woman and treated me like one. I had a lot of this stuff happen to me with guys, often taken to the extreme when they found out I wasn't attracted to men. But for the past 5 years I've been medically masculinizing (transitioning) and am viewed as a male 8 times out of ten. Men are WAY more polite to me now. But the biggest difference I've noticed is how I interact with women had to change. Where I used to get eye contact and an easy shared smile or meaningless flirting, now I get the same practiced polite avoidance I used to have to give guys. I'm careful not to flirt casually, or pay too much attn to women if we're alone, not to walk behind a woman for too long, even if that means I reroute.
My main point here (ran out of room) is that I make an active effort not to scare women, and while it is a constant conscious process that takes energy and effort all the time...it's WAY less energy and effort than I spent presenting as female and just trying to stay safe. Guys need to quit freaking whining and complaining about this stuff like it's some big inconvenience. It's common courtesy, and it's way less effort for him than for her. I might have an advantage over some guys because I actually had the experience of being perceived as female so was on the other side most my life, meaning I know what to be aware of instinctually, but it's not that hard to learn. Try asking women you know who trust you what they do to stay safe, and remember that different women having different experiences and tactics is typical and all are valid.
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I’m surprised it wasn’t on this list, but a male friend exclaiming how they should have to try to impress a girl so that she would be interested in dating and that we’re all just going to run off with the most attractive or well off man anyway. Even larger red flag if a female friend points out how untrue it is and the guy doubles down. HUGE red flag for me
Most of these are not "without realizing it" and that's the scary part. It has threatening auras all around it and that is exactly what they are after.
I'm so lucky to live in a small town. For as long as I can remember, there has only been one big crime.
Even better, I live among deer, stray cats and pheasants. The largest crimes are along the lines of cabbage consumption committed at night. The only "catcalling" is done by me when I try to make friends with Ziggy, one of the regular cats around. Moving here was the best decision ever.
Load More Replies... I have al neighbor who always where I'm going, what I'm doing, who's coming over. Got upset when I told him it was non of his business (politely) he replied he was just watching out for me. That is so creepy I can't even see him without my skin crawling
Dated a guy about 50kg heavier than me - I was tiny. Said that I couldn't do anything if he held me down - I let him go after holding him in a headlock until he nearly passed out. We didn't date for much longer.
Hey I’m 58. Call me old if you want. But everything I’ve read here are old tricks guys were doing when I dated in my 20’s doesn’t change. Don’t let a guy pick you up at your house he doesn’t need to know where you live. Don’t pick him up the trick is to get you inside his house then it’s he’s almost ready, want a drink blah blah never make it out the house.Don’t go to a club/bar too noisy. Go to a inexpensive restaurant order a fruity drink have one of he tells you to get another ask for it with no alcohol or if he tries to talk you into something stronger just don’t.Go to the bathroom don’t drink anything you left on the table not even the water trust me.Had a woman tell me she was just drinking iced tea, went to the bathroom woke up at his house.Out by yourself or friends stick together.No one gets left behind saying “I have a ride”,“I’m ok” or “I’ll meet you at the next spot” chick went missing like that left with 2 guys didn’t make it homeSafety in numbers.Theres no after parties.
I had an online boyfriend at one point who made it abundantly obvious he had eyes for someone at his location. So I told him, "go after her then," and when he turned it into a fight, I told him we were through. He acted like b***h baby in the situation to his family, who then proceeded to threaten me and try to get me to commit suicide. I was about 13 at the time, the dude was 13 and acting like he was 4 and I'd slapped him to his family. I laughed at them and ran mental circles around them. They were all 3 to 4 times my age and couldn't keep up with me. When it divulged into them just calling me a b***h and it was no longer fun to drag them along, I blocked them. In other words, women don't like when you try to act like a b***h to gaslight us into what you want. You have actions and use them, you need to deal with the repercussions.
Hell, I'm one of those guys that are constantly worried that being nice to a woman could be seen as flirting attempt, or that women on the street think I'm a creep while I'm just on my way to somewhere. Thanks to such idiots it sadly is a legit concern for the women and me alike I think
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So the headline, *that explicitly states what happens in these posts*, should be altered because it makes you feel lumped in with all men? Well, welcome to the reality of many women trying to navigate the world safely. You want that to be different? Be part of the change. Call other men, boys, your friends out when they say unappropiated things, when they disrespect women. Even when "it's just a joke".
Load More Replies...
You are sick of it? Great, we are, too! We are f*cking tired of men behaving awfully, so we now call them out on their behavior! Lets stop creepy behavior being seen as normal, call assholes out even if they are friends or family.
Load More Replies...
So many of these have edits because people tried to destroy them for not being "open" or "expecting the worst." Women do not have to explain their rejection of someone to ANYONE. They can say no for ANY REASON. Anyone fighting that clearly feels like they "deserve" something, which is the exact toxic culture that is being pointed out. These are so hard to read.
It would be lovely if this was part of the conversation in schools instead of how much coal Poland produced in 1967. How to communicate with each other, how to make each other feel more comfortable, how to behave in a social setting, girls and boys alike. Teaching boys that their mere gender WILL make girls uncomfortable in certain situations and to deal with it in a healthy way. A lot of things men do to creep women out ARE unintentional, and the result of either never having experienced a constant background thought of "am I safe?" , or the fact that they feel awkward about the notion of girls being cautious and trying to handle it badly.
By reading the first ten answers I can assure you, it's not "without even realizing that". In most of those cases men really know what thwy're doing and do it to assert their dominance. Maybe some of them don't intentionally scare women, but they want to appear big and "alpha" because they believe that women want that.
I don't think they think that women "want that.' I think this is just how they are?
Load More Replies... common thread through it all: women are objects to be claimed, to be owned by men, that men are entitled to sample, control, handle and peruse at their will, unless the woman is claimed by another man. ALL of this is baked into our culture. 'Smile'. The feeling that they're entitled to sex/physical touch/emotional or physical access of any kind. etc. Men, do better. Everyone, teach the littles to do better and expect more. Cultural shifts don't happen overnight.
Yes, I like the way you put that, baked into the culture. I think, also, some of it is baked into our dna - there must have been some evolutionary advantage for domineering possessiveness over the childbearing members of the group?
Load More Replies... Im a teen girl. I was sitting by myself on a public bench yesterday, and every time a guy walked by i got all tense and nervous. they didn't even do anything i just immediately got scared. maybe it was my anxiety but the fact that women have to just assume strange men are threats in order to stay safe is honestly kinda sad i think
My daughter is 25 and she went to bingo alone the other night. A man sat down in front of her and said hi. At intermission he asked her if she wanted a water or anything and she politely declined. She was texting me the whole time and we were both kind of creeped out. He won twice and gave her $10 for bringing him good luck. We were absolutely sure he was some kind of creeper. I was getting ready to drive to the place and meet her so she didn't go to her car alone. He ended up leaving before the final round , and one of the waitresses told her he's a regular and he's just overly friendly. Security walked her to her car just to be sure. It's sad that somebody can't be nice without scaring young women. There is just too much danger out there
It's like men and kids. A grown man cannot show any interest in a child because he'll be taken as a pedo. It's really sad. Known a guy around 40 who walked through a park, then without thinking stopped to gaze at a kid around 4-5 years old, because they were holding a very thick, large book, like an encyclopedia. He was simply surprised that it's not a kiddie book. A second later two women practically attacked him, and ran him out of the park, screaming pedo, threatening to call police.
Load More Replies... Robert Giese, if you're reading this, I hope your get some good, proper therapy. For a loooong time.
Liking one comment on a random Facebook page.... Then trying to add you as friend and liking every thing on your wall without even engaging a conversation
I was assigned female at birth, and lived the first 30 years of my life presenting mostly as female socially. I was considered "butch" for most of that, so occasionally mistaken for a teenaged boy, but I'm also physically tiny and "conventionally" beautiful so mostly people saw a woman and treated me like one. I had a lot of this stuff happen to me with guys, often taken to the extreme when they found out I wasn't attracted to men. But for the past 5 years I've been medically masculinizing (transitioning) and am viewed as a male 8 times out of ten. Men are WAY more polite to me now. But the biggest difference I've noticed is how I interact with women had to change. Where I used to get eye contact and an easy shared smile or meaningless flirting, now I get the same practiced polite avoidance I used to have to give guys. I'm careful not to flirt casually, or pay too much attn to women if we're alone, not to walk behind a woman for too long, even if that means I reroute.
My main point here (ran out of room) is that I make an active effort not to scare women, and while it is a constant conscious process that takes energy and effort all the time...it's WAY less energy and effort than I spent presenting as female and just trying to stay safe. Guys need to quit freaking whining and complaining about this stuff like it's some big inconvenience. It's common courtesy, and it's way less effort for him than for her. I might have an advantage over some guys because I actually had the experience of being perceived as female so was on the other side most my life, meaning I know what to be aware of instinctually, but it's not that hard to learn. Try asking women you know who trust you what they do to stay safe, and remember that different women having different experiences and tactics is typical and all are valid.
Load More Replies... I’m surprised it wasn’t on this list, but a male friend exclaiming how they should have to try to impress a girl so that she would be interested in dating and that we’re all just going to run off with the most attractive or well off man anyway. Even larger red flag if a female friend points out how untrue it is and the guy doubles down. HUGE red flag for me
Most of these are not "without realizing it" and that's the scary part. It has threatening auras all around it and that is exactly what they are after.
I'm so lucky to live in a small town. For as long as I can remember, there has only been one big crime.
Even better, I live among deer, stray cats and pheasants. The largest crimes are along the lines of cabbage consumption committed at night. The only "catcalling" is done by me when I try to make friends with Ziggy, one of the regular cats around. Moving here was the best decision ever.
Load More Replies... I have al neighbor who always where I'm going, what I'm doing, who's coming over. Got upset when I told him it was non of his business (politely) he replied he was just watching out for me. That is so creepy I can't even see him without my skin crawling
Dated a guy about 50kg heavier than me - I was tiny. Said that I couldn't do anything if he held me down - I let him go after holding him in a headlock until he nearly passed out. We didn't date for much longer.
Hey I’m 58. Call me old if you want. But everything I’ve read here are old tricks guys were doing when I dated in my 20’s doesn’t change. Don’t let a guy pick you up at your house he doesn’t need to know where you live. Don’t pick him up the trick is to get you inside his house then it’s he’s almost ready, want a drink blah blah never make it out the house.Don’t go to a club/bar too noisy. Go to a inexpensive restaurant order a fruity drink have one of he tells you to get another ask for it with no alcohol or if he tries to talk you into something stronger just don’t.Go to the bathroom don’t drink anything you left on the table not even the water trust me.Had a woman tell me she was just drinking iced tea, went to the bathroom woke up at his house.Out by yourself or friends stick together.No one gets left behind saying “I have a ride”,“I’m ok” or “I’ll meet you at the next spot” chick went missing like that left with 2 guys didn’t make it homeSafety in numbers.Theres no after parties.
I had an online boyfriend at one point who made it abundantly obvious he had eyes for someone at his location. So I told him, "go after her then," and when he turned it into a fight, I told him we were through. He acted like b***h baby in the situation to his family, who then proceeded to threaten me and try to get me to commit suicide. I was about 13 at the time, the dude was 13 and acting like he was 4 and I'd slapped him to his family. I laughed at them and ran mental circles around them. They were all 3 to 4 times my age and couldn't keep up with me. When it divulged into them just calling me a b***h and it was no longer fun to drag them along, I blocked them. In other words, women don't like when you try to act like a b***h to gaslight us into what you want. You have actions and use them, you need to deal with the repercussions.
Hell, I'm one of those guys that are constantly worried that being nice to a woman could be seen as flirting attempt, or that women on the street think I'm a creep while I'm just on my way to somewhere. Thanks to such idiots it sadly is a legit concern for the women and me alike I think
Load More Replies... So the headline, *that explicitly states what happens in these posts*, should be altered because it makes you feel lumped in with all men? Well, welcome to the reality of many women trying to navigate the world safely. You want that to be different? Be part of the change. Call other men, boys, your friends out when they say unappropiated things, when they disrespect women. Even when "it's just a joke".
Load More Replies... You are sick of it? Great, we are, too! We are f*cking tired of men behaving awfully, so we now call them out on their behavior! Lets stop creepy behavior being seen as normal, call assholes out even if they are friends or family.
Load More Replies... 