Today, patriarchy is alive and well and both men and women fall victim to it in numerous obscure ways. People are scratching their heads over how we still allow inequality and misuse of power to happen in our society. Although tackling such deeply rooted problems take time, there are people who start the dialogue and try to make a change. Slowly, but surely.
TikTok user domesticblisters created a video stating that the most eye-opening thing she learned about men was that they “don’t actually like women”. She explained a theory that the way our society socializes boys to become men is not to tell them how to be masculine—rather to teach them how to not be feminine.
Scroll down to read her insights and make sure to share your thoughts in the comment section below!
KC Davis is a licensed professional therapist who explains a theory on why “men don’t actually like women” to more than 1.2M of her followers on TikTok
Image credits: domesticblisters
Image credits: domesticblisters
Image credits: domesticblisters
KC Davis is a licensed professional therapist, speaker, and author of How to Keep House While Drowning: 31 days of compassionate help. On her TikTok account, she shares a variety of tips about self and home care and starts conversations about mental health, social issues, relationships and many other topics. In less than a year, her videos have drawn over a million followers.
According to her website, Davis began her therapy journey at 16 when she entered treatment for drug addiction and mental health issues: “After getting sober, she became a speaker and advocate for mental health and recovery.” For most of her career, the mother of two focused on addiction problems and had different professional roles—therapist, consultant, and executive director.
In the video she posted, KC Davis speaks about a professor from college who explained a theory about how patriarchal masculinity socializes men and why “shame, violence and disgust are so intricately linked”. The concept that being a man is defined by not being a woman is a result of patriarchal oppression and a long history of feminine attributes being seen as undervalued, and being masculine considered as powerful.
But what does it mean to be a “man” in today’s society? Terry Real, a renowned couple’s therapist, lecturer and bestselling author told Forbes, that “we all live under patriarchy, which is a rigid dichotomy of gender roles.” It tells us that men are supposed to be strong, independent, unemotional, logical and confident. Whereas women are assumed to be expressive, nurturing, weak and dependent. “Traditional gender roles don’t make anybody happy and they don’t make for intimacy,” he said.
“The old rules were built for stability, for production and consumption. Intimacy? I don’t think so. Happiness? No. It was about ‘Buckle up and do your job.’ But today we want intimacy,” the internationally recognized therapist said. It’s no surprise that such old rules won’t get us anywhere: “We need to re-configure who we are both as men and as women, and frankly we need a new vision.”
You can watch the full video, which got over 2.1M views, right over here
@domesticblistersMost men don’t like women. #patriarchy #toxicmasculinity #feminism #misogynistic♬ original sound – Kc Davis
Here’s another video where the TikToker elaborates that homophobia is actually hatred of women too
@domesticblistersReply to @lady14bug ding ding ding. #patriarchy #misogynistic #phobia♬ original sound – Kc Davis
KC Davis gives her take on “how to teach boys to be men”
@domesticblistersReply to @absurdistsisyphus why is learning to being good/worthwhile connected to our gender performance anyways? #masculinity #feminism #patriarchy♬ original sound – Kc Davis
Terry Real suggested, that “what we need are whole people”. He wants to undo this “halving” process—make women want to be strong and confident and men not be afraid to be big-hearted, vulnerable and sensitive. Real offers three effective steps on what we all can do in order to get closer to this “wholeness”.
First, be brave and step out of your comfort zone: “Become intensively aware of that contempt of vulnerability in both sexes. Beware of that code to shun our vulnerability, because we humans connect through our vulnerabilities, not through invulnerability.” Next, don’t try and do this all by yourself. Talk to your friends and your family about it, and make it a collective movement.
Lastly, insist on wholeness from others and from yourself: “Insist on relationality in your boys, insist on strength in your girls, and insist on wholeness in your relationship with each other,” he explained. “You can be a man and cry. You can be a woman and speak up. We can step outside the frame of patriarchy.”
According to a report by Pew Research Center, there’s definitely some work that still needs to be done in the gender equality area. They conducted an online survey of 4,573 American adults and found that about four-in-ten women have experienced discrimination or been treated unfairly because of their gender, while only 18 percent of men said this happened to them.
Millennial women are significantly more likely to say that men have it easier than women these days (compared to Generation X, Baby Boomer or Silent Generation women). Their views on whether changing gender roles have made it easier for women to live more satisfying lives clearly differ from men: “While 61% of Millennial men say women have benefited from these changes, only 48% of Millennial women agree.”
As powerful as patriarchy is, it’s not immortal. Although not as much as women, men also suffer the consequences that come with it. Not being able to freely express their emotions and show vulnerability causes great pressure on their everyday lives. As KC Davis suggested, we should teach children how to be good people without the gender binary. Tell them that they can be strong and also vulnerable, and invite that concept of wholeness both into yours and their lives.
This viral video sparked quite a discussion about masculinity in the comment section
This is BS and a good example for why I hate social media. You narrow everything down to bite-sized pieces and package them in catchy, click-baity slogans like "men don't like women", distorting the meaning of what may be a valid scientific investigation so much that you make it a parody of itself. Read the actual study, people, don't watch someone on Tiktok reducing it to a meaningless slogan!
The mistake is to reduce a single statement told within context in a class at colleage level by a professor, who hopefully based designing the lecture on thorough work with the scientific literature, into a provocative video on a social media platform meant for entertainment. The statement by itself may well be evidenced, but this is no proper way to discuss it let alone draw conclusions from it. Neither sociology nor psychology are simple subjects just because it is simply to talk about them; they are also no subjects where you pick your favourite theory and showcase it as if there are absolute truths like you have them in the natural sciences.
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Sorry, this is definitely true of some men but extending it to all men and saying they despise women is nonsense. Personally, my mother was my role model, my wife is my best friend and I have more female than male friends as I can’t stand “blokey” behaviour or sports. That doesn’t fit her caricature of men though.
I agree with you, but I think the takeaway here is that men who are taught as boys to refrain from displaying normal human emotion come to hate normal human emotion, because they equate it with weakness and a lack of masculinity. Women aren't taught this, generally, so these men view a natural emotional display from a woman as disgusting. "Stop crying. You're overreacting." Every man is different, of course. I've gotten the "stop crying" disgusted reaction AND the "it's ok, cry on my shoulder while I hug you" reaction. Generalizing about an entire gender based on the behavior of some is counterproductive and disingenuous.
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I’ve met terrible and wonderful folks of both (all) genders, and everyone is just trying to deal (or not) with their own issues in an ever maddening world. Toxicities don’t discriminate. It’s Friday, be nice to yourself, be nice to someone else. If you’re on here you’re probably looking for some good in the world, and I hope you find it both here and out there. Peace!
I am a father of two boys and I must be raising them wrong because I have been teaching them to treat girls as equals and that it is okay to cry and other stuff.
Well done, Mike. That's how it should be done. We are all equals, we all have emotions and should never feel ashamed for that.
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I'm going to say this as a woman because men get jumped on for it - jump on me all you want, I do not give a toss. You just can't say "men" in this kind of situation. Just because this person believes it doesn't mean that every man is guilty of this s**t. You just cannot lump 4 BILLION people into the one category, it's offensive and downright wrong. There are misogynists, you bet, I've met plenty. I've also met men who have been raised that way and do their best to unlearn it. I've also met men who treat women with equal respect. How can you expect misogynists to change when you're telling them "nope, sorry its just who you are"? How can you expect genuinely good hearted guys to read this and not be upset? Poison, that's what these articles are. Dangerous, toxic poison.
Thank you for putting it so well. I am also a woman and I was upset about this bigotry and tendency to make all men the bad guys.
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IMO the patriarchy is definitely a real thing, and there is much room for improvement on how men and women see and treat themselves and each other. But this post is just completely over-simplified, unnuanced and one-sided man-bashing. Come on BP, how are we supposed to react to this?
We have to simplify it because so many still don't grok. Your expected reaction is "be the change". This post illustrates the worst aspect of patriarchy: teaching boys that being girly is demeaning and beneath them. It's part of our military and police force training, part of our sports, the mentality that makes women second class citizens.
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"ALL MEN...*says stupid thing*" Oh look! The definition of sexism
Plenty of men have perfectly healthy, platonic relationships with women. Sweeping generalizations about a certain sex, gender or sexuality doesn't push the conversation forward. You're just putting people into neat little groups. I'm sorry so many of you have had terrible relationships with men.
A great way, I think, to start to counter this is to ask men to list women they're not related to who they admire and why.
Angela Merkel : being in office so long without any big scandals or losing your composure. To the incomplete view i had of her she truly looked like a servant to the people. Might be different if you actually live in germany. ......... But on the other hand Andy, that is a great idea. https://www.boredpanda.com/?p=3476284
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As I understand it, she is saying that toxic gender roles are endemic. This is shown by toxic roles that demean women, forced sexualization of roles, and insupportable dichotomies. Ok, I can accept that... and that no one can completely escape it. And... Holy Crap have some nuance! This in itself looks like click-baity crap designed to inspire "Not all men" responses, at the same time as it paints all men with the same brush. The obvios provocation makes it harder for people down the line to disarm the very things she is talking about, and poisons the image of feminists and men alike. They seem like they're fishing for views more than they are trying to fix real problems.
I have to say, that in in my experience and in close talks with men that are not afraid to share their feelings, women bolt the minute their interest starts to show too much earnest sensitivity or emotional depth. I think women are just as indoctrinated as the men are into thinking that detached macho is the way to go. In fact we're taught that to get a woman's attention you have to act disinterested. I for one am tired of pretending, and living dishonestly so I've never wanted to believe that, but in my experience it has 'worked', though noone wins there. You want men to feel more comfortable expressing sensitivity, openness, fairness, earnestness? Then first practice what you preach and secondly value it in men throughout your entire lives so they don't feel like the women in their lives mirror society's push for insensitivity as a valued trait.
It can be a subtle balance. So I think that revealing a lot on the first date might be a bit much. For example, a man I dated for about two months gave me a paragraph or sentence here and there about his past marriage. A few sentences about his insecurities about his acne on the first two dates (his acne didn't bother me). He just needed to talk from time to time. Don't most of us?
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This bullshit, men don't like women? I'm a man, and i'm looking at you as a person (yeah cliché but it's the truth). If i like you = i like you, if i dislike you = i dislike you (does not happen that often though). I judge you as a whole, not by your haircolour, proffession or the fact that you are male or female. Men don't see women as human... really the biggest BS i've ever layed eyes on. And i saw a lot!
Yeah and this toxic s**t is read by children on tiktok too!
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This tracks with my own observations and experiences during my 52 years. From what I've seen and heard, objectifying women and viewing "womanly" things with distain is pretty much normal for men. Education doesn't seem to have much to do with it - I've seen the same behavior from men with high school diplomas and PhD's.
I think there is definitely something to the general thrust of her statements. But I hate the way this is reduced to "let men cry, let men be vulnerable and it will fix everything". Trust me, I have a middle eastern family where men cry and show emotion all the time. They are definitely not less misogynist than the repressed western men I know.
There are tons of legitimate issues regarding systemic sexism in our society. And how society teaches boys to behave is wrong. But to take a societal norm, and assume this applies to every single person is ridiculous. There are always counter-culture people out there. Articles like this completely undermine the legitimacy of any attempt to fix the real issues. This woman has issues... and has decided that a sweeping generalization is a quick and easy explanation rather than having to put the mental effort into realizing the life and people are complex, diverse and complicated.
There's no denying that traditionally perceived female traits (empathy, caring for people, ...) are valued less than traditionally viewed male traits (strength, ambition, calculation,...). Male-dominated jobs are often perceived as more prestigious and higher paid. I guess this is somehow encapsulated in the simplified message here. It's a very valid explanation why women were allowed to vote or take an education only relatively short time ago. This doesn't equal "men don't like women", it means that what we understand as femininity is valued less than masculinity.
If I could add any word to videos like this (and articles, blog-posts, opinion-pieces, etc.), it would be this one word: 'Some'. 'Some men think (or act) like this', 'Some women think (or act) like this', 'Some Americans, some Europeans, some liberals, some conservatives, some white people, some people of color, etc, etc, etc.' There are no absolutes. There are no generalizations that are true across groups. Even study data only expresses aggregates - like an average - while individuals in that study may vary widely.
I usually feel like it's implied in cases like this. From the looks of the comment section, I think I'm in minority.
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This says more about this particular therapist's perception or experiences with men (my guess is no real experience, only theoretical) than it does anything else.
This is the biggest piece of horse crap i have ever read, former drug addict with mental health issues is suddenly the new Deepak Chopra, because she became a licensed therapist, sounds like someone has had some rejection issues, everyone is quick to jump in on toxic masculinity, but we never want to address toxic female behaviour, what kind of message is this so called therapist sending, oh boy i hope she doesn't have sons, and kinda feel for the guy that had to marry her, sorry lady not all women have had shitty relationships with men...
Not true. My husband raised by a single mom.....way more sensitive than me. I was raised by my single dad. But we love this about eachother. I've taught my sons to be sensitive caring and respectful. It's important especially in today's world. One of them recently asked me why his girlfriend was so gonho on paying her own phone bill and he couldn't help, I said respect that. She's being independent, your dad doesn't pay all my bills either.
lol yeah generalization is very nice way to start a discussion /s stuff like this, makes me think, WTF is going on in the US?
Speaking of generalizations...I think it's safe to say that sexism exists all over the world, not just in the US.
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In US you use "like a girl" as a slur. And it is totally weird when you're not used to that. And you use it _all_the_time_ The coach yells "come on ladies" as a way to say that the team is weak. No wonder american women have insecurity issues. They have been taught that to be a girl is a bad thing their whole life, and boys have learned that In other parts of the world, "you are running like a girl" is just as confusing as if you would say "you are running like a ohioan"
I agree with this. The doctor is correct. Men are trained from birth to be different than women. In my own life I often heard the "Be a man," line from many people. When I was a small boy I cried way to often. Now I understand I am on the Spectrum, but back then there was no diagnosis. They would just blame my behavior of "Attention Deficit" or some other half-butted excuse not to help me. >> The fact of the matter is that half our society is treated unfairly. Women are just as capable as a man, often more so. We should all be treated fairly.
Well, there's also the fact that sexual attraction doesn't have a 1:1 correlation with liking the person you're attracted to! And we expect to base our life partnerships on sexual attraction. It leads to problems in all sexes and orientations, our hormones don't do a good job of leading us to people who will make us happy. So straight men aren't the only ones to partner with people they don't actually like.
I like my mother and my sisters. I like women without being sexually attracted. I like them because they are different.
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damn I always thought I had a few female friends (with no benefits) but I guess I just don't like them, that's a shame
What she's describing is a system of patriarchal oppression based in sexism. That's very different than saying men don't like women. It's overly reductive. Seems like it would be similar to saying "white people don't like Black people" when it's more accurate to say that there is a system of oppression based on racism.
Based on the comments offered above and here, I think it's the other way around to be perfectly honest. Maybe people should just let people be people and stop making huge general statements about everyone while trying to pander to "Everyone is special and unique." The worst part of this, is that male clients of this lady are probably shamed about not liking women, when they actually are perfectly fine and not huge douchebags and that is really poor therapy.
Yup! We all to often assume about people before we even know them.
Load More Replies... I feel like this is why there is so much backlash against fake geek/gamer girls. Women can’t possibly like anything “masculine“ because it suddenly devalues everything.
Whoops, meant to make a new comment, must have clicked reply by mistake! (BTW I agree with you)
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In my formative years I was mostly raised by my mother and her mother. My biological father was absent, and I learned fairly early on that most of what my stepfather would hate was rooted in his upbringing and religious beliefs, so I rarely paid attention to him. My childhood heroes were always a mix of men and women, I knew what "Girl Power" was before I knew what stereotypes made a "typical guy", and I'll treat the people I like as people, no matter their gender (or lack thereof). If I find a reason to hate a woman, you can be sure it has nothing to do with her gender, but what she has done as a person (looking at you Ghislaine Maxwell, you monster). I've never felt ashamed of doing anything "feminine". Maybe that's because who I am as a person isn't defined by my masculinity or femininity, but by what I enjoy doing with my life. I am not a man, a woman, in between, or neither. I AM NERD! HEAR ME QUOTE OBSCURE POP CULTURE REFERENCES!
I've been saying this for years. Masculinity is a marketing campaign and all these incel, rapers and other creeps are proof that the campaign works. Men are emotionally stunted and dangerously unaware of their true desires or nature. The hot look for men this summer and every other day of the week is Repressed Feelings.
This kind of oversimplified bullshit is not conductive to starting any kind of useful conversation around patriarchy and gender roles.
Is the headline a click-baity over simplification? Of course it is, but there is still a valid point here. A lot if what society teaches boys about being masculine is to avoid anything with any connotations of being feminine. Boys do absorb the message that being "girly " is bad, and if they have been trained to look down on all things girly, then what will they think of girls (and women) themselves. I've seen it first hand raising my sons. I've repeatadly seen both my boys come home from school sad and embarrassed because they were shamed by other boys for liking something deemed to be "for girls" This has included books, kids TV shows, toys, colors, and literally spending time with female classmates. In every instance they have either professed to not like the thing anymore or decided to hide their intrest at school.
This is asinine. I like women. I absolutely do. That doesn't mean I want to be like them. I would not like a woman who wants to be just like a man!
To me, people are individuals with sex and gender identity as an influence and part of their identity, along with ethnicity, upbringing, etc. For you, Pablo, it might be comfortable to think of behaviour as neatly divided into "male" and "female", but I have a vested interest in thinking more in terms of range and spectrum. I grew up in a time and place where men and women were expected to behave in assigned roles and they did not suit me.
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And women who are strong and speak their minds are “bitches” or bossy to both sexes/genders.
First time ever posting my opinion in over a year of browsing and all I gotta say is ....this is such ridiculous bullshit.
This makes a lot sense. Every single one of it does. Our society is so grossly misogynist that it effects everyone. Men and women alike. Even though we're human beings too, men still don't see us that way.
All of the downvotes on this article only prove the truth of it all. it's also funny when a ton of people who aren't even willing to have a discussion about this without belittling, s**t talking and using ad hominems try to discredit this all when they've never actually stopped to think about the reality of our society, the downfalls of or society and why it is that we're loving backwards... which means they have also never stopped to think about their role in it all. So instead of learning and opening their minds to the experiences of others that could give them incite into the things about themselves and the world they don't understand, they they are also guilty of perpetuating... they would rather tear it all down, pretend it isn't real and give bullshit, unfounded, idiotic and absolutely absurd "reasons" as to why it's all fake... but all the while their exact behaviors and avoidance of talking about these issues only further proves the truth of it all. TL, DR. You're hypocrites
Interesting that I did not add the stars when I typed the word d**k. It was this sites’ software that edited my post. But it didn’t alter the way I typed pussy.
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It's fascinating how there's all this rationalization about particular (hates/-isms/etc.), when in the end, it just comes down to: Everyone wants to feel better than someone else, somehow. Maybe someone uses religion, another uses gender, another uses race, anotehr uses nationality, another uses education level, etc etc etc etc.... We're a very insecure bunch of hair-deprived primates, aren't we?
ademiralijagic, with a personality/characer like yours - crying and all - it's simply adorable how you think those kids are yours.
I agree with this article! Yes there are no absoletes. She isn’t talking about black and white thinking as some on here who disagree are doing so in their own black and white thoughts. Statistics show men kill women worldwide frequently enough just because of their gender. There are also books on how men just want respect and women want love. I believe this is because men don’t respect women ( no ogling isn’t respect, it’s a show of lack of self control and objectification an addiction for some)Yet I would also put forth the argument that women want love because they don’t really love men. You can’t love someone who doesn’t respect you. The women who argue against this will all say they have a man they love but the list will be of the so called feminine traits as kindness, empathy emotional traits. So if men have been programmed not to be these feminine traits. Then these women who say they love men are loving feminine traits not defined society masculinity! Obsolete not what this is.
Love my Wife, Daughter, mother and sister... but generally, Women just aren't interesting, they are Emotional, illogical, unaccountable and simply are confused creatures... Women aren't as interesting as Men..... No Women, Men don't want to be your friend, we just want sex.
I'm a 50 year old married man, Love my wife, my mom and sister.. Love them with all my heart, but... Overall, I just don't find Women interesting... They are emotional, illogical, confused creatures. Generally most men feel the same.
What about women not being attracted to men who show vulnerability towards them? It seems we as a society treat people with the thought of what can we get out of them instead of being able to be true to ourselves around others. Relationships are hard with friends or lovers and showing vulnerability when you can be ostracized for it is a pretty big risk so many of us don't even want to try since the risk outweighs the reward in a lot of not most cases.
This is not true. I hold women to standards. Yet I have been accused of not liking women. In any event, isn't it women, more specifically, white women that make up the majority of teachers?
I think we need to stop assuming about people before we even know them. Don't judge and assume anything. Until you get to know a person. If we would start doing that, then we can speak on who people are. But not before we know them.
A lot of furious commentators here appear to getting indignant without offering any rebuttal for what we know has been a humanity-long dehumanisation of women. Like a literal dehumanisation across every culture and civilisation. It happened. It’s documented. It still has understandable effects. Grow up and stop denying it. If you’re mad becuase you feel like you’re not a misogynist, but you don’t acknowledge the entirety of human history in which women were viciously oppressed, then you’re probably a misogynist. The facts are there.
This is designed to encourage women to dislike men., Not nice. Not good, and terribly 'sexist'. I would say that KC Davis is a man hater, I cannot guess why, but she is certainly very very bitter, I would think she should have her license to practise as a therapist should be revoked.
I disagree. If men are conditioned to "not be like women", it's so that they would be attractive to women. Women generally are not attractive to men who share exactly the same qualities as their sex: we (consciously or subconsciously) are drawn to masculine qualities, which are complementary to ours.
There will always be men who truly hate women, mostly because of what I read here, and because the rest of you are so conspicuously silent about it. Women got what they wanted, and we're leaving you alone now. That cuts both ways, though. We are not your protectors. We are not your providers. We will repay your schadenfreude and indifference with schadenfreude and indifference. I don't care if you're facing certain death, I will not help you. You reap what you sow.
Well, once again, despite the beard, testicles, and masculine identity, I am finding out I'm actually a woman?
This was the biggest load of all the bulls s**t ever. Just because you hate men, doesn't mean they hate women. Just goes to show that education doesn't equate inteligence.
[Enter scene: Stockholm City Hall] And this year's Nobel Prize for Medicine goes to this Catboy Emo on TikTok for discovering that not showering is beneficial for your health! *All cheer.* *The zombie from Guns, Gore, and Cannoli shuffles up and collects the Nobel Prize.*
One angle you dont often find is that some of the toxicity is not from being told to be a man, but from degradation and resentment for the mother who hated the father and punished the boy for it, lashing out their resentment in the wrong direction. Your first love in life is the person you fear most; told things like "you're so like your father" in a disgusted tone, traits and features, gestures and tones that are alike to your progenitor told to you as if you were worse for it. I think its overlooked because we have yet to really see the whole picture and see that sometimes, just sometimes, momma ain't no sweet little lady.
Similar happened to a sweet and intelligent guy I dated years back. He did get past the issues with his mother, but it was very hard on him as a child and a teenager. He saw it as his mother having the issues and not as a gender issue.
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I must be an outlier, then. The majority of my friends are women. There aren't many men I truly enjoy being around.
Many women may say they want this but in practice, don’t. Not all. But all I’ve met. To be fair, same goes for men too.
That's too bad. I hope you do meet someone who allows you to be a well-rounded individual. Doesn't always have to be an intimate partner. For example, a male acquaintance talked to me about the pain of a breakup, I listened and sympathized. It didn't cure his pain, but it helped. Breakups often suck, no reason to pretend they don't just because one belongs to a specific half of humanity.
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i just got into an accident the guy jumped out of his truck and his first words to me are you drunk and proceeded on from there calling me names it took him about 15 mins to ask if i was ok i got hit by the plow on his truck and his friend also said i wonder if your plow is ok i told my husband that id he had been the one driving this conversation would not have gone this way i am only 5ft tall 98 lbs if my husband who is 200 pounds and lifts weights would have been behind the wheel none of this would have been said i am so tired of men they treat me like dirt because of my size and that i am female there was absolutely nothing wrong with his truck and he is standing there yelling at me not to mention the s**t eating grin they had on there faces
That's enormously frustrating and belittling - one can feel powerless, helpless and bullied.
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I'm trying to dispel this idea with my bf. I asked him what his fave things is about me. He said everything. I can understand not wanting to say anything specific. Even though I'm not the type to throw a compliment back in his face, he seems to have had bad experiences with this in the past. I have heard him tell me he makes him laugh and I'm so funny to him, and he gets into the educational stuff I love. He loves my body the way it is and that's great to me. We don't give men enough credit for being just decent, manly human beings. There are shitty people of all genders. This whole article is toxic feminism.
This whole argument also works in reverse as women are taught not to be like men. There are elements of truth in it but the assumption and extrapolation (backed by zero referenced studies) in this argument are a massive stretch
She can roll this article up and put it in an orifice of her choice where the sun doesn't shine.
When writing theory everything seems it ought to work, but in real life, women don't want vulnerability in men. In fact, we're taught to not be vulnerable so that a woman's attention won't stray, and I've seen it all my life. that's why that 'bad boy' culture exists for women not just for men. That's why the saying goes nice guys finish last, because you're literally bored with vulnerability in men, and at the same time prod us into being more vulnerable.
Speaking for myself, a man expressing his hurt is fine - humans need to talk from time to time. If some talks only about their problems, it makes for a one-dimensional relationship. My dad and my husband both tell me about things that bother them. They also have a great sense of humour, enjoy learning new things, etc. On the other hand, my mother's conversations were mainly about things that bothered her, including complaints about my dad. He kept things to himself around her.
Load More Replies... Thats true. I'm incel, and I don't like women. I like only cute tomboys
We like women just fine, its actually her in particular that we can't stand. Blaming sexism for her own shitty personality lmao.
Ah, you mean people disagreeing with a catch-all generalization that radiates misandry more than anything else? Yes, definitely proof that men inherently dislike women...
Load More Replies... This is BS and a good example for why I hate social media. You narrow everything down to bite-sized pieces and package them in catchy, click-baity slogans like "men don't like women", distorting the meaning of what may be a valid scientific investigation so much that you make it a parody of itself. Read the actual study, people, don't watch someone on Tiktok reducing it to a meaningless slogan!
The mistake is to reduce a single statement told within context in a class at colleage level by a professor, who hopefully based designing the lecture on thorough work with the scientific literature, into a provocative video on a social media platform meant for entertainment. The statement by itself may well be evidenced, but this is no proper way to discuss it let alone draw conclusions from it. Neither sociology nor psychology are simple subjects just because it is simply to talk about them; they are also no subjects where you pick your favourite theory and showcase it as if there are absolute truths like you have them in the natural sciences.
Load More Replies... Sorry, this is definitely true of some men but extending it to all men and saying they despise women is nonsense. Personally, my mother was my role model, my wife is my best friend and I have more female than male friends as I can’t stand “blokey” behaviour or sports. That doesn’t fit her caricature of men though.
I agree with you, but I think the takeaway here is that men who are taught as boys to refrain from displaying normal human emotion come to hate normal human emotion, because they equate it with weakness and a lack of masculinity. Women aren't taught this, generally, so these men view a natural emotional display from a woman as disgusting. "Stop crying. You're overreacting." Every man is different, of course. I've gotten the "stop crying" disgusted reaction AND the "it's ok, cry on my shoulder while I hug you" reaction. Generalizing about an entire gender based on the behavior of some is counterproductive and disingenuous.
Load More Replies... I’ve met terrible and wonderful folks of both (all) genders, and everyone is just trying to deal (or not) with their own issues in an ever maddening world. Toxicities don’t discriminate. It’s Friday, be nice to yourself, be nice to someone else. If you’re on here you’re probably looking for some good in the world, and I hope you find it both here and out there. Peace!
I am a father of two boys and I must be raising them wrong because I have been teaching them to treat girls as equals and that it is okay to cry and other stuff.
Well done, Mike. That's how it should be done. We are all equals, we all have emotions and should never feel ashamed for that.
Load More Replies... I'm going to say this as a woman because men get jumped on for it - jump on me all you want, I do not give a toss. You just can't say "men" in this kind of situation. Just because this person believes it doesn't mean that every man is guilty of this s**t. You just cannot lump 4 BILLION people into the one category, it's offensive and downright wrong. There are misogynists, you bet, I've met plenty. I've also met men who have been raised that way and do their best to unlearn it. I've also met men who treat women with equal respect. How can you expect misogynists to change when you're telling them "nope, sorry its just who you are"? How can you expect genuinely good hearted guys to read this and not be upset? Poison, that's what these articles are. Dangerous, toxic poison.
Thank you for putting it so well. I am also a woman and I was upset about this bigotry and tendency to make all men the bad guys.
Load More Replies... IMO the patriarchy is definitely a real thing, and there is much room for improvement on how men and women see and treat themselves and each other. But this post is just completely over-simplified, unnuanced and one-sided man-bashing. Come on BP, how are we supposed to react to this?
We have to simplify it because so many still don't grok. Your expected reaction is "be the change". This post illustrates the worst aspect of patriarchy: teaching boys that being girly is demeaning and beneath them. It's part of our military and police force training, part of our sports, the mentality that makes women second class citizens.
Load More Replies... "ALL MEN...*says stupid thing*" Oh look! The definition of sexism
Plenty of men have perfectly healthy, platonic relationships with women. Sweeping generalizations about a certain sex, gender or sexuality doesn't push the conversation forward. You're just putting people into neat little groups. I'm sorry so many of you have had terrible relationships with men.
A great way, I think, to start to counter this is to ask men to list women they're not related to who they admire and why.
Angela Merkel : being in office so long without any big scandals or losing your composure. To the incomplete view i had of her she truly looked like a servant to the people. Might be different if you actually live in germany. ......... But on the other hand Andy, that is a great idea. https://www.boredpanda.com/?p=3476284
Load More Replies... As I understand it, she is saying that toxic gender roles are endemic. This is shown by toxic roles that demean women, forced sexualization of roles, and insupportable dichotomies. Ok, I can accept that... and that no one can completely escape it. And... Holy Crap have some nuance! This in itself looks like click-baity crap designed to inspire "Not all men" responses, at the same time as it paints all men with the same brush. The obvios provocation makes it harder for people down the line to disarm the very things she is talking about, and poisons the image of feminists and men alike. They seem like they're fishing for views more than they are trying to fix real problems.
I have to say, that in in my experience and in close talks with men that are not afraid to share their feelings, women bolt the minute their interest starts to show too much earnest sensitivity or emotional depth. I think women are just as indoctrinated as the men are into thinking that detached macho is the way to go. In fact we're taught that to get a woman's attention you have to act disinterested. I for one am tired of pretending, and living dishonestly so I've never wanted to believe that, but in my experience it has 'worked', though noone wins there. You want men to feel more comfortable expressing sensitivity, openness, fairness, earnestness? Then first practice what you preach and secondly value it in men throughout your entire lives so they don't feel like the women in their lives mirror society's push for insensitivity as a valued trait.
It can be a subtle balance. So I think that revealing a lot on the first date might be a bit much. For example, a man I dated for about two months gave me a paragraph or sentence here and there about his past marriage. A few sentences about his insecurities about his acne on the first two dates (his acne didn't bother me). He just needed to talk from time to time. Don't most of us?
Load More Replies... This bullshit, men don't like women? I'm a man, and i'm looking at you as a person (yeah cliché but it's the truth). If i like you = i like you, if i dislike you = i dislike you (does not happen that often though). I judge you as a whole, not by your haircolour, proffession or the fact that you are male or female. Men don't see women as human... really the biggest BS i've ever layed eyes on. And i saw a lot!
Yeah and this toxic s**t is read by children on tiktok too!
Load More Replies... This tracks with my own observations and experiences during my 52 years. From what I've seen and heard, objectifying women and viewing "womanly" things with distain is pretty much normal for men. Education doesn't seem to have much to do with it - I've seen the same behavior from men with high school diplomas and PhD's.
I think there is definitely something to the general thrust of her statements. But I hate the way this is reduced to "let men cry, let men be vulnerable and it will fix everything". Trust me, I have a middle eastern family where men cry and show emotion all the time. They are definitely not less misogynist than the repressed western men I know.
There are tons of legitimate issues regarding systemic sexism in our society. And how society teaches boys to behave is wrong. But to take a societal norm, and assume this applies to every single person is ridiculous. There are always counter-culture people out there. Articles like this completely undermine the legitimacy of any attempt to fix the real issues. This woman has issues... and has decided that a sweeping generalization is a quick and easy explanation rather than having to put the mental effort into realizing the life and people are complex, diverse and complicated.
There's no denying that traditionally perceived female traits (empathy, caring for people, ...) are valued less than traditionally viewed male traits (strength, ambition, calculation,...). Male-dominated jobs are often perceived as more prestigious and higher paid. I guess this is somehow encapsulated in the simplified message here. It's a very valid explanation why women were allowed to vote or take an education only relatively short time ago. This doesn't equal "men don't like women", it means that what we understand as femininity is valued less than masculinity.
If I could add any word to videos like this (and articles, blog-posts, opinion-pieces, etc.), it would be this one word: 'Some'. 'Some men think (or act) like this', 'Some women think (or act) like this', 'Some Americans, some Europeans, some liberals, some conservatives, some white people, some people of color, etc, etc, etc.' There are no absolutes. There are no generalizations that are true across groups. Even study data only expresses aggregates - like an average - while individuals in that study may vary widely.
I usually feel like it's implied in cases like this. From the looks of the comment section, I think I'm in minority.
Load More Replies... This says more about this particular therapist's perception or experiences with men (my guess is no real experience, only theoretical) than it does anything else.
This is the biggest piece of horse crap i have ever read, former drug addict with mental health issues is suddenly the new Deepak Chopra, because she became a licensed therapist, sounds like someone has had some rejection issues, everyone is quick to jump in on toxic masculinity, but we never want to address toxic female behaviour, what kind of message is this so called therapist sending, oh boy i hope she doesn't have sons, and kinda feel for the guy that had to marry her, sorry lady not all women have had shitty relationships with men...
Not true. My husband raised by a single mom.....way more sensitive than me. I was raised by my single dad. But we love this about eachother. I've taught my sons to be sensitive caring and respectful. It's important especially in today's world. One of them recently asked me why his girlfriend was so gonho on paying her own phone bill and he couldn't help, I said respect that. She's being independent, your dad doesn't pay all my bills either.
lol yeah generalization is very nice way to start a discussion /s stuff like this, makes me think, WTF is going on in the US?
Speaking of generalizations...I think it's safe to say that sexism exists all over the world, not just in the US.
Load More Replies... In US you use "like a girl" as a slur. And it is totally weird when you're not used to that. And you use it _all_the_time_ The coach yells "come on ladies" as a way to say that the team is weak. No wonder american women have insecurity issues. They have been taught that to be a girl is a bad thing their whole life, and boys have learned that In other parts of the world, "you are running like a girl" is just as confusing as if you would say "you are running like a ohioan"
I agree with this. The doctor is correct. Men are trained from birth to be different than women. In my own life I often heard the "Be a man," line from many people. When I was a small boy I cried way to often. Now I understand I am on the Spectrum, but back then there was no diagnosis. They would just blame my behavior of "Attention Deficit" or some other half-butted excuse not to help me. >> The fact of the matter is that half our society is treated unfairly. Women are just as capable as a man, often more so. We should all be treated fairly.
Well, there's also the fact that sexual attraction doesn't have a 1:1 correlation with liking the person you're attracted to! And we expect to base our life partnerships on sexual attraction. It leads to problems in all sexes and orientations, our hormones don't do a good job of leading us to people who will make us happy. So straight men aren't the only ones to partner with people they don't actually like.
I like my mother and my sisters. I like women without being sexually attracted. I like them because they are different.
Load More Replies... damn I always thought I had a few female friends (with no benefits) but I guess I just don't like them, that's a shame
What she's describing is a system of patriarchal oppression based in sexism. That's very different than saying men don't like women. It's overly reductive. Seems like it would be similar to saying "white people don't like Black people" when it's more accurate to say that there is a system of oppression based on racism.
Based on the comments offered above and here, I think it's the other way around to be perfectly honest. Maybe people should just let people be people and stop making huge general statements about everyone while trying to pander to "Everyone is special and unique." The worst part of this, is that male clients of this lady are probably shamed about not liking women, when they actually are perfectly fine and not huge douchebags and that is really poor therapy.
Yup! We all to often assume about people before we even know them.
Load More Replies... I feel like this is why there is so much backlash against fake geek/gamer girls. Women can’t possibly like anything “masculine“ because it suddenly devalues everything.
Whoops, meant to make a new comment, must have clicked reply by mistake! (BTW I agree with you)
Load More Replies... In my formative years I was mostly raised by my mother and her mother. My biological father was absent, and I learned fairly early on that most of what my stepfather would hate was rooted in his upbringing and religious beliefs, so I rarely paid attention to him. My childhood heroes were always a mix of men and women, I knew what "Girl Power" was before I knew what stereotypes made a "typical guy", and I'll treat the people I like as people, no matter their gender (or lack thereof). If I find a reason to hate a woman, you can be sure it has nothing to do with her gender, but what she has done as a person (looking at you Ghislaine Maxwell, you monster). I've never felt ashamed of doing anything "feminine". Maybe that's because who I am as a person isn't defined by my masculinity or femininity, but by what I enjoy doing with my life. I am not a man, a woman, in between, or neither. I AM NERD! HEAR ME QUOTE OBSCURE POP CULTURE REFERENCES!
I've been saying this for years. Masculinity is a marketing campaign and all these incel, rapers and other creeps are proof that the campaign works. Men are emotionally stunted and dangerously unaware of their true desires or nature. The hot look for men this summer and every other day of the week is Repressed Feelings.
This kind of oversimplified bullshit is not conductive to starting any kind of useful conversation around patriarchy and gender roles.
Is the headline a click-baity over simplification? Of course it is, but there is still a valid point here. A lot if what society teaches boys about being masculine is to avoid anything with any connotations of being feminine. Boys do absorb the message that being "girly " is bad, and if they have been trained to look down on all things girly, then what will they think of girls (and women) themselves. I've seen it first hand raising my sons. I've repeatadly seen both my boys come home from school sad and embarrassed because they were shamed by other boys for liking something deemed to be "for girls" This has included books, kids TV shows, toys, colors, and literally spending time with female classmates. In every instance they have either professed to not like the thing anymore or decided to hide their intrest at school.
This is asinine. I like women. I absolutely do. That doesn't mean I want to be like them. I would not like a woman who wants to be just like a man!
To me, people are individuals with sex and gender identity as an influence and part of their identity, along with ethnicity, upbringing, etc. For you, Pablo, it might be comfortable to think of behaviour as neatly divided into "male" and "female", but I have a vested interest in thinking more in terms of range and spectrum. I grew up in a time and place where men and women were expected to behave in assigned roles and they did not suit me.
Load More Replies... And women who are strong and speak their minds are “bitches” or bossy to both sexes/genders.
First time ever posting my opinion in over a year of browsing and all I gotta say is ....this is such ridiculous bullshit.
This makes a lot sense. Every single one of it does. Our society is so grossly misogynist that it effects everyone. Men and women alike. Even though we're human beings too, men still don't see us that way.
All of the downvotes on this article only prove the truth of it all. it's also funny when a ton of people who aren't even willing to have a discussion about this without belittling, s**t talking and using ad hominems try to discredit this all when they've never actually stopped to think about the reality of our society, the downfalls of or society and why it is that we're loving backwards... which means they have also never stopped to think about their role in it all. So instead of learning and opening their minds to the experiences of others that could give them incite into the things about themselves and the world they don't understand, they they are also guilty of perpetuating... they would rather tear it all down, pretend it isn't real and give bullshit, unfounded, idiotic and absolutely absurd "reasons" as to why it's all fake... but all the while their exact behaviors and avoidance of talking about these issues only further proves the truth of it all. TL, DR. You're hypocrites
Interesting that I did not add the stars when I typed the word d**k. It was this sites’ software that edited my post. But it didn’t alter the way I typed pussy.
Load More Replies... It's fascinating how there's all this rationalization about particular (hates/-isms/etc.), when in the end, it just comes down to: Everyone wants to feel better than someone else, somehow. Maybe someone uses religion, another uses gender, another uses race, anotehr uses nationality, another uses education level, etc etc etc etc.... We're a very insecure bunch of hair-deprived primates, aren't we?
ademiralijagic, with a personality/characer like yours - crying and all - it's simply adorable how you think those kids are yours.
I agree with this article! Yes there are no absoletes. She isn’t talking about black and white thinking as some on here who disagree are doing so in their own black and white thoughts. Statistics show men kill women worldwide frequently enough just because of their gender. There are also books on how men just want respect and women want love. I believe this is because men don’t respect women ( no ogling isn’t respect, it’s a show of lack of self control and objectification an addiction for some)Yet I would also put forth the argument that women want love because they don’t really love men. You can’t love someone who doesn’t respect you. The women who argue against this will all say they have a man they love but the list will be of the so called feminine traits as kindness, empathy emotional traits. So if men have been programmed not to be these feminine traits. Then these women who say they love men are loving feminine traits not defined society masculinity! Obsolete not what this is.
Love my Wife, Daughter, mother and sister... but generally, Women just aren't interesting, they are Emotional, illogical, unaccountable and simply are confused creatures... Women aren't as interesting as Men..... No Women, Men don't want to be your friend, we just want sex.
I'm a 50 year old married man, Love my wife, my mom and sister.. Love them with all my heart, but... Overall, I just don't find Women interesting... They are emotional, illogical, confused creatures. Generally most men feel the same.
What about women not being attracted to men who show vulnerability towards them? It seems we as a society treat people with the thought of what can we get out of them instead of being able to be true to ourselves around others. Relationships are hard with friends or lovers and showing vulnerability when you can be ostracized for it is a pretty big risk so many of us don't even want to try since the risk outweighs the reward in a lot of not most cases.
This is not true. I hold women to standards. Yet I have been accused of not liking women. In any event, isn't it women, more specifically, white women that make up the majority of teachers?
I think we need to stop assuming about people before we even know them. Don't judge and assume anything. Until you get to know a person. If we would start doing that, then we can speak on who people are. But not before we know them.
A lot of furious commentators here appear to getting indignant without offering any rebuttal for what we know has been a humanity-long dehumanisation of women. Like a literal dehumanisation across every culture and civilisation. It happened. It’s documented. It still has understandable effects. Grow up and stop denying it. If you’re mad becuase you feel like you’re not a misogynist, but you don’t acknowledge the entirety of human history in which women were viciously oppressed, then you’re probably a misogynist. The facts are there.
This is designed to encourage women to dislike men., Not nice. Not good, and terribly 'sexist'. I would say that KC Davis is a man hater, I cannot guess why, but she is certainly very very bitter, I would think she should have her license to practise as a therapist should be revoked.
I disagree. If men are conditioned to "not be like women", it's so that they would be attractive to women. Women generally are not attractive to men who share exactly the same qualities as their sex: we (consciously or subconsciously) are drawn to masculine qualities, which are complementary to ours.
There will always be men who truly hate women, mostly because of what I read here, and because the rest of you are so conspicuously silent about it. Women got what they wanted, and we're leaving you alone now. That cuts both ways, though. We are not your protectors. We are not your providers. We will repay your schadenfreude and indifference with schadenfreude and indifference. I don't care if you're facing certain death, I will not help you. You reap what you sow.
Well, once again, despite the beard, testicles, and masculine identity, I am finding out I'm actually a woman?
This was the biggest load of all the bulls s**t ever. Just because you hate men, doesn't mean they hate women. Just goes to show that education doesn't equate inteligence.
[Enter scene: Stockholm City Hall] And this year's Nobel Prize for Medicine goes to this Catboy Emo on TikTok for discovering that not showering is beneficial for your health! *All cheer.* *The zombie from Guns, Gore, and Cannoli shuffles up and collects the Nobel Prize.*
One angle you dont often find is that some of the toxicity is not from being told to be a man, but from degradation and resentment for the mother who hated the father and punished the boy for it, lashing out their resentment in the wrong direction. Your first love in life is the person you fear most; told things like "you're so like your father" in a disgusted tone, traits and features, gestures and tones that are alike to your progenitor told to you as if you were worse for it. I think its overlooked because we have yet to really see the whole picture and see that sometimes, just sometimes, momma ain't no sweet little lady.
Similar happened to a sweet and intelligent guy I dated years back. He did get past the issues with his mother, but it was very hard on him as a child and a teenager. He saw it as his mother having the issues and not as a gender issue.
Load More Replies... I must be an outlier, then. The majority of my friends are women. There aren't many men I truly enjoy being around.
Many women may say they want this but in practice, don’t. Not all. But all I’ve met. To be fair, same goes for men too.
That's too bad. I hope you do meet someone who allows you to be a well-rounded individual. Doesn't always have to be an intimate partner. For example, a male acquaintance talked to me about the pain of a breakup, I listened and sympathized. It didn't cure his pain, but it helped. Breakups often suck, no reason to pretend they don't just because one belongs to a specific half of humanity.
Load More Replies... i just got into an accident the guy jumped out of his truck and his first words to me are you drunk and proceeded on from there calling me names it took him about 15 mins to ask if i was ok i got hit by the plow on his truck and his friend also said i wonder if your plow is ok i told my husband that id he had been the one driving this conversation would not have gone this way i am only 5ft tall 98 lbs if my husband who is 200 pounds and lifts weights would have been behind the wheel none of this would have been said i am so tired of men they treat me like dirt because of my size and that i am female there was absolutely nothing wrong with his truck and he is standing there yelling at me not to mention the s**t eating grin they had on there faces
That's enormously frustrating and belittling - one can feel powerless, helpless and bullied.
Load More Replies... I'm trying to dispel this idea with my bf. I asked him what his fave things is about me. He said everything. I can understand not wanting to say anything specific. Even though I'm not the type to throw a compliment back in his face, he seems to have had bad experiences with this in the past. I have heard him tell me he makes him laugh and I'm so funny to him, and he gets into the educational stuff I love. He loves my body the way it is and that's great to me. We don't give men enough credit for being just decent, manly human beings. There are shitty people of all genders. This whole article is toxic feminism.
This whole argument also works in reverse as women are taught not to be like men. There are elements of truth in it but the assumption and extrapolation (backed by zero referenced studies) in this argument are a massive stretch
She can roll this article up and put it in an orifice of her choice where the sun doesn't shine.
When writing theory everything seems it ought to work, but in real life, women don't want vulnerability in men. In fact, we're taught to not be vulnerable so that a woman's attention won't stray, and I've seen it all my life. that's why that 'bad boy' culture exists for women not just for men. That's why the saying goes nice guys finish last, because you're literally bored with vulnerability in men, and at the same time prod us into being more vulnerable.
Speaking for myself, a man expressing his hurt is fine - humans need to talk from time to time. If some talks only about their problems, it makes for a one-dimensional relationship. My dad and my husband both tell me about things that bother them. They also have a great sense of humour, enjoy learning new things, etc. On the other hand, my mother's conversations were mainly about things that bothered her, including complaints about my dad. He kept things to himself around her.
Load More Replies... Thats true. I'm incel, and I don't like women. I like only cute tomboys
We like women just fine, its actually her in particular that we can't stand. Blaming sexism for her own shitty personality lmao.
Ah, you mean people disagreeing with a catch-all generalization that radiates misandry more than anything else? Yes, definitely proof that men inherently dislike women...
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