Doctor Writes “The Most Passive-Aggressive Note” To Sign Off An Employee For 2 Weeks Instead Of 2 Days After Her Jerk Manager Illegally Threatens To Fire Her
Interview With Author
Sick leave is paid time off from work that employees can use to stay at home and address their health needs… or run around the city, trying to please their abusive boss before their body shuts down.
Some time ago, when Reddit user u/kathjoy was suffering from flu-like symptoms, they informed their manager about taking a few days off, as permitted by law.
The manager, however, threatened to fire u/kathjoy if they don’t get a doctor’s note. Luckily, the Reddittor’s well-being was in good hands — instead of 2 days, they got 2 weeks of rest and a disciplinary hearing for their barbaric manager, all thanks to a devoted doctor who refused to contribute to the world’s injustice.
Below, you will find a detailed description of the events that u/kathjoy themselves had written on r/MaliciousCompliance.
Image credits: francisblack (not the actual photo)
u/kathjoy told Bored Panda that Steve was one of the worst managers they have ever had. “He never believed everyone about anything, and would often talk down to us and tell us how to do our job even though he didn’t know anything about the department,” the Redditor said. “You could probably walk up to him holding your own head in your hand and he’d probably still not believe you needed to go to the doctor. Nobody liked Steve because he just didn’t seem to care about anyone but himself. He hid in his office most of the time and even when we put out calls for him because we needed him for a complaint, you’d usually have to call several times and he’d take his sweet time getting to you. So I guess you could say there was no love lost between us.”
But their doctor surpassed all u/kathjoy’s expectations. “I was just expecting the doctor to confirm I was ill. I didn’t expect her to do what she did and I’m forever grateful.” In fact, u/katjhoy was even afraid she’d turn them away.
“After the incident, Steve was kind of weird towards me,” u/kathjoy said about the dynamic at work after they went back. “Sometimes he’d be a fake sickly-sweet nice to me like ‘Hey, it’s [you], my favorite worker’ or ‘I’m so glad you’re feeling better’ and other times he would blank me out and ignore or avoid me. But he never tried to force me to come in when I called in sick, so that was a plus.”
Currently, British employees must give their employer a doctor’s ‘sick note’ (also called ‘fit note’) if they’ve been ill for more than 7 days in a row and have taken sick leave. This includes non-working days, such as weekends and bank holidays.
If it’s not Covid, they can get a note from a GP or hospital doctor. If their employer agrees, a similar document can be provided by a physiotherapist, podiatrist, or occupational therapist instead. This is called an Allied Health Professional (AHP) Health and Work Report.
If employees are off work for 7 days or less (like u/kathjoy would have been), they do not need to give their employer a note or other proof of sickness from a medical professional. When they return to work, their employer can ask them to confirm they’ve been off sick. This is called ‘self-certification’. The employer and employee will agree on how the employee should do this. They might need to fill in a form or send details of their sick leave by email.
Sadly, similar experiences are still the norm in many parts of the world. According to a 2019 study from global staffing firm Accountemps, for example, 9 in 10 employees in the US admit going to work sick. Moreover, one-third said they always go to the office with cold or flu symptoms and 54 percent of those who report to the office with cold or flu symptoms said they do so because they have too much work to do. Most respondents who said they report to the office while ill because of an overwhelming workload were from New York City, Minneapolis and Miami.
People were really happy to learn everything turned out for the best
That was not a "passive-aggressive" note. That was a very straightforward, assertive note that accomplished the task perfectly. Nothing passive about that! Well done.
That comment from fake_math (third up from the bottom): they f*cking WHAT now?!! I just had to pick my jaw up off the floor. How? How the ever loving f*ck do Americans not take a page out of their French (former) allies and start removing heads?
Simply put, as an American, we keep forgetting the guillotine b/c they brainwashed us to guns, and those are a lot less selective, is my guess. And, no, I'm not being sarcastic. The problem is also that if we behead the serpent of rampant profiteering corporatism, the thrashing of the body will hurt innocent bystanders.
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A Universal Healthcare, paid sick leave, and a Union story, you say? Where the worker was not screwed over and not only didn't lose their job, but got paid for two weeks, AND didn't go into massive debt? Wow! It's almost like it's a good thing... hmmmm
In the Netherlands it's even illegal to ask why you are calling in sick (like 'what is your ailment'). Only after six days a company doctor will call you and you have to indicate when you think you are getting back to work. It's not untill after six weeks an official medical report is made and the company doctor is not allowed to tell you employer what you have. Offcourse when it's just a flu we generally mention it but legally we do not have to tell anything.
It's really bad in the US. I got written up for excessive absences just the other day - I've been out one day in 7 months.
Ironically, some of the most inconsiderate employers when it comes to sick time is hospitals. Who wants a nurse looking after them who is wearing a mask because she/he has what you can hear is a very bad cold. (Not everyone can take cold medication) The best one was when I had a severe migraine ( I have hemiplegic migraines. The rarest kind in the world. Beyond horrible). My mom calls in for me and my boss says "Can't she just take a couple of Tylenol and come in?" Shouldn't have said that. What a tongue lashing she got. And no! My daughter isn't coming in! Also, sick notes are required after 3 days. Now the docs are billing the employer for them. Also, at one hospital in the US, I had to come in with a temperature of 39C, about 104F. By the time I could go to the doctor (on my day off) still had that temperature and was breathing 40 times a minute. 2x the normal. Was furious I had to work like this. I had one of the worst flues you could have. Gave me flu medication and said if I'm not better in 24hrs he's putting me in the hospital. No note. Just called my boss and told her off big time. "She'll be off for as long as I say she'll be off!"
The doctor that attend the protagonist of this is a badass. Steve is truly a villain
I had a similar situation. I was out for over a week, and brought a doctors note, but my really horrible manager wasn't satisfied with the doctors note. She wanted me to go back to him and tell him to write another note explaining what was wrong with me, and why I couldn't come to work. I went to the doctor and told him what she said. He called her. Asked if she wanted a note explaining what was wrong with me, and she said yes. He spent the next 20 minutes raining fury on her head, giving her the basics of medical privacy laws, and telling her he was calling her superior to explain why the company could be sued for even asking me these questions. That ghastly woman spent a good deal of time in HR, trying to explain herself, received a disciplinary action, and hated me until she died, but she never bothered me again.
I can promise you that it is extremely rare to come across a manager who will look after the lower employees like that over another manager. Most of them really are in the "All Boys Together" club and stick to each other no matter what. If this lady HAD been fired she would have had a good case of unfair dismissal and even then the manager would have been able to get himself out of it by making up some story that she had done something else that was a sackable offence. Believe me I know form experience. I was sacked for leaving the supermarket where I worked to help a lady home with her shopping. We were not allowed to leave the premises during working hours except during lunch break. I was told by a manager to help this lady home with her shopping and then another manager fired me when I got back. When I told him Manager A told me to do that manager A flat out said that he didn't and manager B believed him. So I was gone and there was nothing I could do about it.
Sorry that happened to you - that person was a gutless moron. I have to say my own experiences have been very different. I've been lucky with the managers I've had. People vary but I suspect that any sh!tty manager was once a sh!tty staff member who hid it well to get promotion.
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I'm in the US. I dropped out of college in order to work full time so that I would have health insurance when I was 19, since my dad dropped me when he left my mom and was no longer sharing an address with me. Though I liked the job I had, I didn't always get along with the boss, she thought I was young and dumb. Anyway, I have allergies and frequent sinus and related infections. One day I noticed swelling starting at the tip of my nose, and spreading across my cheek and eye. I knew it was cellulitis, or at least assumed so because I had it twice before, and that I needed treatment asap. I could still open and shut my eye when I told my boss I needed to leave for the ER, and she said it didn't look that bad, stop picking at it and I'd be fine (I wasn't picking, both my eye and nose were running) I couldn't leave until my eye was about swollen shut & my nose was bulbous and throbbing; that was just before the end of my shift, forcing me to drive like that during rush hour.
Something similar happened to my friend, he kept requesting a change in shift pattern because of his son and our manager refused everytime so my friend got a new job and when he walked in with his notice the manager freaked out pretended he was kidding and immediately started asking my friend what sort of hours worked for him. My friend was like nope I'm gone bye
This reminded me of something similar that happened when I used to work at a grocery store as well. I was a newer hire who had only been working about 4 to 6 months. I started getting menstrual and uterine problems that caused severe pain. When I went to the doctors, they told me I was severely anemic amongst other things and the work I was doing was way too strenuous. So they started giving me notes to give to my manager so I could take medical leave. I went into the doctor every two weeks and basically they were giving me notes to extend my medical leave until I was better. When I went in to give another note to the manager, she was with the store director. When the store director saw it was another extension, she just scoffed and said "what was the point in hiring you if you couldn't even work". The manager never said anything and as a young employee at their first job, I didn't say anything either but it felt awful to be blamed for something beyond my control
They said they had a walk-in session, so no appointment. That's not really the norm these days - though I never have a problem getting in the same day if I am sufficiently ill. If I'm not that ill then fair enough, I can wait.
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In France, basis are: you have to go to the doctor immediately and send an official paper within 24hours. You're not paid until the 4th day, then you're paid 60% of your salary by social security. If you are lucky, your company complete it. Anyway, this story is amazing, with a lot of amazing people facing the a-holeness. That's great!
Isn't that right time consuming for the doctors, as well as rather unpleasant for people who are too sick to work and yet don't really need a doctor?
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In the US you're lucky if you get 3 days of sick leave all year, or at all.
The more I learn about the US the more I wonder how you haven't revolted yet.
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I am only wondering...when are you supposed to go to the doctor if not when you are ill? when you are healthy?
I had many years back a cunning HR in corporate UK based firm in India. While taking job I declared of allergic sinusitis and during monsoon I am terrible n at times gasping for breath... During recession they were targeting staff to remove and picked this issue of mine and tried force to put paper. I however didn't. But after few years when I left they did rook revenge of stating in back ground check in other company tht I took too much leave. But India mumbai is not like other countries where u have better transportation to travel n better options with medication
'I sometimes fantasize about living in a country where workers have rights." Same, fam. Same.
One workplace I was treated so badly I had really awful, painful cramping stress related IBS. FORTUNATELY didn't affect how I went to the toilet in any way, but the cramps were so awful, and some days I would be in constant pain at work, while still being treated like crap. the doctor said to me, it's pretty obvious what is causing this, how much notice do you have to give? because that's how long I'm signing you off for, and you never have to go back. amazing how quickly after making that decision it went away.
Not go to the doctor when you are ill? So when do you should go? When you are healthy? My goodness. How do you know what kind of medicine you should take, what is your sickness, you have pneumonia or not if you don't go to the doctor???
exactly I was like what? but I have to consider this is a different country. In my country you go to doctor when you are ill not when you are healthy. and they will give notice which you will send to your employer within 3 days. Even if you have a terrible cold and just need rest and C vitamin you still go to the doctor for a check. they will decide what is your disease and if you need some medicine, not you.
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If you can't go to the doctor while you're sick, how do you find out what your sick with? Is there another process for that? Would the OP have had to go to the emergency department if their symptoms got worse?
In the UK they won't give out antibiotics for viruses (as they only work on bacterial infections), so going to the doctor with the flu or a cold doesn't actually achieve anything. In countries where you pay fees, I'm sure they'd be happy to give you an appointment, some drugs and a hefty invoice though
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In America we're free to get fired. So there!! 'Murica!!! FREEDUMB!!!
I just can not see this happening in the UK, we have laws here to protect workers.
That's why he ended up getting disciplinary action. Sure if she'd been fired she could have gone the legal route and eventually got her job back and backpay but that wouldn't pay her food bill and rent in the meantime. If you're living on a low wage and only just getting by then some managers are going to take advantage of that because they know that even if you eventually win your case, you can't afford to get fired.
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You see your GP for a variety of things but not when you have a contagious virus. That isn't particularly treatable. Most viruses are a 'drink fluids, rest and take painkillers as needed' situation. In the UK you would be considered an idiot expecting treatment and infecting half the waiting room and staff for something that you'll just get better from in a few days. If you get a complication later, like a chest infection, then you see your GP for a prescription. A&E exists for accidents and emergencies - such as not being able to breathe.
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Yes. In countries with functional health care systems (so not America), you are supposed to stay home while you are contagious with an illness you don't need medicine for, and go to clinics for preventative care and well checks. If you are so sick you need medical intervention to recover, you go to hospital.
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I sometimes use 'Americanisms' on BP. For example Doctors Office might be easier to understand internationally than GP to people across the globe (country specific acronyms can be annoying). People pick phrases up anyway so that's not much to go by. The Union would in no way be on strike over this, what an overreaction that would be! The appointment - it was a walk in surgery. This was clearly before most of the practices went over to an appointment only system. This was clearly NOT during the pandemic. He talks about it as a past event. Though I have had a same day appointment every time I've needed it and I see my GP fairly often. During the pandemic I have had same day treatment accessed via the phone on two occasions. My spouse had to see a GP and got a same day appointment during one of the lockdowns. Can't assume.
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You are not supposed to go to the doctors with contagious things that do not require medical attention, like coughs, colds and the flu, because you could pass them onto other people.
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That is the manager's fault and if anyone should be resented it is them!! The rest of the staff are probably very aware of what a fckwit they are. If the manager was any use (unlikely) they'd pick up the slack themselves. People get sick and other people have to deal with it, that's life. Some work can wait - you deal with the urgent stuff and your own less urgent stuff has to wait. I expect Steve has done it for them sometimes. Swings and roundabouts.
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That was not a "passive-aggressive" note. That was a very straightforward, assertive note that accomplished the task perfectly. Nothing passive about that! Well done.
That comment from fake_math (third up from the bottom): they f*cking WHAT now?!! I just had to pick my jaw up off the floor. How? How the ever loving f*ck do Americans not take a page out of their French (former) allies and start removing heads?
Simply put, as an American, we keep forgetting the guillotine b/c they brainwashed us to guns, and those are a lot less selective, is my guess. And, no, I'm not being sarcastic. The problem is also that if we behead the serpent of rampant profiteering corporatism, the thrashing of the body will hurt innocent bystanders.
Load More Replies... A Universal Healthcare, paid sick leave, and a Union story, you say? Where the worker was not screwed over and not only didn't lose their job, but got paid for two weeks, AND didn't go into massive debt? Wow! It's almost like it's a good thing... hmmmm
In the Netherlands it's even illegal to ask why you are calling in sick (like 'what is your ailment'). Only after six days a company doctor will call you and you have to indicate when you think you are getting back to work. It's not untill after six weeks an official medical report is made and the company doctor is not allowed to tell you employer what you have. Offcourse when it's just a flu we generally mention it but legally we do not have to tell anything.
It's really bad in the US. I got written up for excessive absences just the other day - I've been out one day in 7 months.
Ironically, some of the most inconsiderate employers when it comes to sick time is hospitals. Who wants a nurse looking after them who is wearing a mask because she/he has what you can hear is a very bad cold. (Not everyone can take cold medication) The best one was when I had a severe migraine ( I have hemiplegic migraines. The rarest kind in the world. Beyond horrible). My mom calls in for me and my boss says "Can't she just take a couple of Tylenol and come in?" Shouldn't have said that. What a tongue lashing she got. And no! My daughter isn't coming in! Also, sick notes are required after 3 days. Now the docs are billing the employer for them. Also, at one hospital in the US, I had to come in with a temperature of 39C, about 104F. By the time I could go to the doctor (on my day off) still had that temperature and was breathing 40 times a minute. 2x the normal. Was furious I had to work like this. I had one of the worst flues you could have. Gave me flu medication and said if I'm not better in 24hrs he's putting me in the hospital. No note. Just called my boss and told her off big time. "She'll be off for as long as I say she'll be off!"
The doctor that attend the protagonist of this is a badass. Steve is truly a villain
I had a similar situation. I was out for over a week, and brought a doctors note, but my really horrible manager wasn't satisfied with the doctors note. She wanted me to go back to him and tell him to write another note explaining what was wrong with me, and why I couldn't come to work. I went to the doctor and told him what she said. He called her. Asked if she wanted a note explaining what was wrong with me, and she said yes. He spent the next 20 minutes raining fury on her head, giving her the basics of medical privacy laws, and telling her he was calling her superior to explain why the company could be sued for even asking me these questions. That ghastly woman spent a good deal of time in HR, trying to explain herself, received a disciplinary action, and hated me until she died, but she never bothered me again.
I can promise you that it is extremely rare to come across a manager who will look after the lower employees like that over another manager. Most of them really are in the "All Boys Together" club and stick to each other no matter what. If this lady HAD been fired she would have had a good case of unfair dismissal and even then the manager would have been able to get himself out of it by making up some story that she had done something else that was a sackable offence. Believe me I know form experience. I was sacked for leaving the supermarket where I worked to help a lady home with her shopping. We were not allowed to leave the premises during working hours except during lunch break. I was told by a manager to help this lady home with her shopping and then another manager fired me when I got back. When I told him Manager A told me to do that manager A flat out said that he didn't and manager B believed him. So I was gone and there was nothing I could do about it.
Sorry that happened to you - that person was a gutless moron. I have to say my own experiences have been very different. I've been lucky with the managers I've had. People vary but I suspect that any sh!tty manager was once a sh!tty staff member who hid it well to get promotion.
Load More Replies... I'm in the US. I dropped out of college in order to work full time so that I would have health insurance when I was 19, since my dad dropped me when he left my mom and was no longer sharing an address with me. Though I liked the job I had, I didn't always get along with the boss, she thought I was young and dumb. Anyway, I have allergies and frequent sinus and related infections. One day I noticed swelling starting at the tip of my nose, and spreading across my cheek and eye. I knew it was cellulitis, or at least assumed so because I had it twice before, and that I needed treatment asap. I could still open and shut my eye when I told my boss I needed to leave for the ER, and she said it didn't look that bad, stop picking at it and I'd be fine (I wasn't picking, both my eye and nose were running) I couldn't leave until my eye was about swollen shut & my nose was bulbous and throbbing; that was just before the end of my shift, forcing me to drive like that during rush hour.
Something similar happened to my friend, he kept requesting a change in shift pattern because of his son and our manager refused everytime so my friend got a new job and when he walked in with his notice the manager freaked out pretended he was kidding and immediately started asking my friend what sort of hours worked for him. My friend was like nope I'm gone bye
This reminded me of something similar that happened when I used to work at a grocery store as well. I was a newer hire who had only been working about 4 to 6 months. I started getting menstrual and uterine problems that caused severe pain. When I went to the doctors, they told me I was severely anemic amongst other things and the work I was doing was way too strenuous. So they started giving me notes to give to my manager so I could take medical leave. I went into the doctor every two weeks and basically they were giving me notes to extend my medical leave until I was better. When I went in to give another note to the manager, she was with the store director. When the store director saw it was another extension, she just scoffed and said "what was the point in hiring you if you couldn't even work". The manager never said anything and as a young employee at their first job, I didn't say anything either but it felt awful to be blamed for something beyond my control
They said they had a walk-in session, so no appointment. That's not really the norm these days - though I never have a problem getting in the same day if I am sufficiently ill. If I'm not that ill then fair enough, I can wait.
Load More Replies... In France, basis are: you have to go to the doctor immediately and send an official paper within 24hours. You're not paid until the 4th day, then you're paid 60% of your salary by social security. If you are lucky, your company complete it. Anyway, this story is amazing, with a lot of amazing people facing the a-holeness. That's great!
Isn't that right time consuming for the doctors, as well as rather unpleasant for people who are too sick to work and yet don't really need a doctor?
Load More Replies... In the US you're lucky if you get 3 days of sick leave all year, or at all.
The more I learn about the US the more I wonder how you haven't revolted yet.
Load More Replies... I am only wondering...when are you supposed to go to the doctor if not when you are ill? when you are healthy?
I had many years back a cunning HR in corporate UK based firm in India. While taking job I declared of allergic sinusitis and during monsoon I am terrible n at times gasping for breath... During recession they were targeting staff to remove and picked this issue of mine and tried force to put paper. I however didn't. But after few years when I left they did rook revenge of stating in back ground check in other company tht I took too much leave. But India mumbai is not like other countries where u have better transportation to travel n better options with medication
'I sometimes fantasize about living in a country where workers have rights." Same, fam. Same.
One workplace I was treated so badly I had really awful, painful cramping stress related IBS. FORTUNATELY didn't affect how I went to the toilet in any way, but the cramps were so awful, and some days I would be in constant pain at work, while still being treated like crap. the doctor said to me, it's pretty obvious what is causing this, how much notice do you have to give? because that's how long I'm signing you off for, and you never have to go back. amazing how quickly after making that decision it went away.
Not go to the doctor when you are ill? So when do you should go? When you are healthy? My goodness. How do you know what kind of medicine you should take, what is your sickness, you have pneumonia or not if you don't go to the doctor???
exactly I was like what? but I have to consider this is a different country. In my country you go to doctor when you are ill not when you are healthy. and they will give notice which you will send to your employer within 3 days. Even if you have a terrible cold and just need rest and C vitamin you still go to the doctor for a check. they will decide what is your disease and if you need some medicine, not you.
Load More Replies... If you can't go to the doctor while you're sick, how do you find out what your sick with? Is there another process for that? Would the OP have had to go to the emergency department if their symptoms got worse?
In the UK they won't give out antibiotics for viruses (as they only work on bacterial infections), so going to the doctor with the flu or a cold doesn't actually achieve anything. In countries where you pay fees, I'm sure they'd be happy to give you an appointment, some drugs and a hefty invoice though
Load More Replies... In America we're free to get fired. So there!! 'Murica!!! FREEDUMB!!!
I just can not see this happening in the UK, we have laws here to protect workers.
That's why he ended up getting disciplinary action. Sure if she'd been fired she could have gone the legal route and eventually got her job back and backpay but that wouldn't pay her food bill and rent in the meantime. If you're living on a low wage and only just getting by then some managers are going to take advantage of that because they know that even if you eventually win your case, you can't afford to get fired.
Load More Replies... You see your GP for a variety of things but not when you have a contagious virus. That isn't particularly treatable. Most viruses are a 'drink fluids, rest and take painkillers as needed' situation. In the UK you would be considered an idiot expecting treatment and infecting half the waiting room and staff for something that you'll just get better from in a few days. If you get a complication later, like a chest infection, then you see your GP for a prescription. A&E exists for accidents and emergencies - such as not being able to breathe.
Load More Replies... Yes. In countries with functional health care systems (so not America), you are supposed to stay home while you are contagious with an illness you don't need medicine for, and go to clinics for preventative care and well checks. If you are so sick you need medical intervention to recover, you go to hospital.
Load More Replies... I sometimes use 'Americanisms' on BP. For example Doctors Office might be easier to understand internationally than GP to people across the globe (country specific acronyms can be annoying). People pick phrases up anyway so that's not much to go by. The Union would in no way be on strike over this, what an overreaction that would be! The appointment - it was a walk in surgery. This was clearly before most of the practices went over to an appointment only system. This was clearly NOT during the pandemic. He talks about it as a past event. Though I have had a same day appointment every time I've needed it and I see my GP fairly often. During the pandemic I have had same day treatment accessed via the phone on two occasions. My spouse had to see a GP and got a same day appointment during one of the lockdowns. Can't assume.
Load More Replies... You are not supposed to go to the doctors with contagious things that do not require medical attention, like coughs, colds and the flu, because you could pass them onto other people.
Load More Replies... That is the manager's fault and if anyone should be resented it is them!! The rest of the staff are probably very aware of what a fckwit they are. If the manager was any use (unlikely) they'd pick up the slack themselves. People get sick and other people have to deal with it, that's life. Some work can wait - you deal with the urgent stuff and your own less urgent stuff has to wait. I expect Steve has done it for them sometimes. Swings and roundabouts.
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