Landlords Didn’t Expect Tenant Would Move Her Garden With Her, Have Potential Buyers Walk Out
Landlords are a tad like Vegemite—you either love ‘em or you loathe ‘em. From my personal experience (and feel free to pitch in with your own examples, Pandas), landlords are either some of the warmest and most accommodating people you’ve ever met or evil incarnate, intent on spreading misery and squeezing the last cent out of you. Redditor u/GardeningMonster brings us an intriguing tale about the latter.
The woman turned to the AITA community for a verdict about a dramatic situation that went down with her landlords. You see, GardeningMonster, as befits her online handle, has a bit of a green thumb. She turned the barren wasteland of a back yard into a verdant, lush oasis over the next 7 years of renting the property.
But when she was asked to move out, she packed up her entire garden and took it with her, being proud of it as she is. This, however, caused quite a quarrel with her landlords who were upset that the value of the home had just gone down. Scroll down for the full story and all the spicy details, Pandas! When you’re done reading, share your thoughts about the drama in the comments and let us know what tips you’d give anyone on how to solve issues with their landlords.
The tenant spent 7 years creating her perfect garden in the back yard
Image credits: Ben Ashby (not the actual photo)
However, when it came time for her to move out, she brought everything with her. Here’s the full story in her own words
Image credits: GardeningMonster
Image credits: Jan Canty (not the actual photo)
Practically everything in the garden wasn’t directly planted into the ground. It was all transportable. So GardeningMonster took her awesome shed, greenhouse, pizza oven, garden beds, aquaponics, and pavers with her when she left. It sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to do considering how much time, money, and effort she put into turning the dull back yard into a small paradise for her and her friends.
The thing to keep in mind is that everything’s completely fine from a legal standpoint. The tenant had all the photographic evidence to back up the fact that there was nothing growing in the back yard when she arrived. What’s more, her contract was sound and allowed her to take up gardening. The issue is that the landlords expected the fabulous new garden to stay: they took photos of it for the sale ads.
Naturally, with the garden gone, quite a few possible buyers evaporated into thin air. The green oasis was one of the main selling points… until it got packed up and waddled off to set its roots elsewhere. It could be quite a shock for anyone!
One potential solution to the entire situation is better communication. As cheesy as it sounds. The landlords should have expressly asked about the garden, considering how extensive the makeover to the back yard was.
Personally, I don’t believe that the tenant was obligated to let the landlords know that she’d be bringing the garden (i.e. her property) with her. To me, it sounds completely logical that you take your stuff with you, whatever form that it takes: whether it’s a sofa or a pizza oven. However, things might have gotten hairy if most of the garden property wasn’t transportable.
In case you want to make a green oasis of your own, Pandas, you should consider making it more eco-friendly and a haven for small critters like frogs and lizards. Dr. John W. Wilkinson from the Amphibian and Reptile Conservation charity explained to me that the “single most important thing you can do for garden life” is to set up a garden pond.
Following that, you should really stay away from using chemicals in your garden if you care about the local fauna. Size isn’t everything, but creativity is. Even if you’ve got barely any space, you can still make your back yard friendly for critters.
“In a small garden, even an upturned dustbin lid or bowl will provide a place for animals to drink,” Dr. Wilkinson told Bored Panda. Meanwhile, setting up compost heaps and log piles can provide cozy habitats for frogs and reptiles. Though climate change is making things tougher for critters in some parts of the world.
“Climate change can be a very negative factor for frogs, toads, and newts. Ponds can dry up too quickly, meaning their tadpoles don’t have enough time to develop. Also, warmer winters affect hibernating frogs. They use more energy during hibernation and partially wake up, meaning they are in poorer condition for breeding. This is particularly hard on the females who put a lot of energy into making eggs (spawn),” Dr. Wilkinson explained what’s happening in the UK.
Here’s what some internet users had to say about the drama over the garden
If the landlord took photos of the inside of the property would you be required to leave your furniture too? No. Take your possessions with you, including plants and garden supplies. 100% NTA.
NTA! The landlord wants to profit from the sweat of her backbreaking work, passion, and skills. To hell with that. They could never adequately compensate her for the amount of time that she put into the garden. It's a unending passion project for people who truly love to garden. They work in them daily. You can't put a value on that kind of dedication to your own garden. Any landlord worth their salt would've mentioned compensation for work being done around the yard years ago and learned what her plans were for it, instead of waiting to see, assuming it belonged to them. It takes some real balls to assume that the kind of upgrades she did like sheds, pizza oven, etc would be theirs at no cost. They're buffoons and deserve the garden to look as it did when she moved in. It was never her job to repair it. They didn't take pride in it. Why should it be left on her shoulders. That was her happy place, so glad she'll continue to enjoy it 😊
Load More Replies...I would like to see it as well, I can imagine how beautiful it is
Load More Replies...Nobody seems to be talking about it, but I give you 4:1 odds that the REASON they were "planning to sell" was because they thought she had increased the value of the property to something higher than they were charging her (since rent for current tenants can only be raised so much so often, at least where I live). They got greedy, and now they got nothing.
This. 1000% this. They figured they'd be able to take advantage of this young woman's hard work and supplies bought with her own money so that they could turn a tidy profit. Pure greed. Instead of a free garden and a new, higher-paying renter (or buyer), they have the same barren backyard they had before and NO renter with a property sitting empty and not generating income. Serves them right.
Load More Replies...I had a landlord take me to court years ago because I took all my plants when I moved. Potted plants, not in the ground. The judge LOL.
I hope the judge fined him for wasting the court's time.
Load More Replies...If they wanted you to leave it, the decent thing would have been for them to approach you about buying the garden from you. Otherwise, they can't get something for nothing. NTA
The decent thing would have been to let her keep her home? Lmfao
Load More Replies...Her money, her labor, her garden, none of it permanent, none of it done by owner. Enjoy garden elsewhere, landlord idiotic to assume tenant wouldn't take improvements with. When we rented, if I caulked or whatever, yeah, fine, that stayed, but my garden boxes didn't.
All the plants and installations was bought with HER money, its HER property. If her landowners wanted them, they should have at least offered to buy them.
LOL! If the tenant had left it, I bet the landlord would have tried to ding them on the deposit for leaving "trash" behind.
The landlord was not her contact, in the 5th panel mentioned an agent "signed off and she received her deposit back. So if anyone was 'dinged' by the landlord, it's the real estate agent who send off with the client. She worked with a 3rd party.
Load More Replies...People who garden or plant trees know how personal gardens can become, just like how we love our pets. My family has become so much attached to plants we grew within this lockdown that not taking them with us when/if we move out sounds ridiculous to us.
I can guarantee you that if they had left the garden how it was then the landlord would've tried to keep the deposit on the grounds "the property isn't how it was when you moved in". My sisters boyfriend spend hundreds of pounds renovating his bathroom in a rented house because it was unsightly before and the landlord kept his deposit because of it. In short, landlords are the devil who will strip you of every penny they think they can get their grubby little hands on. Don't feel bad for them, ever.
The level of entitlement is staggering. The tenant spent her own money, time, and effort to improve her living space. Would they have expected her to leave her furniture too?!
I don’t understand why it wasn’t discussed prior to the move. Landlord was probably really hoping to get it for free! If the photos are of the actual garden it must have been magnificent.
We've given our tenants notice. Their garden is so beautiful and I sincerely hope they manage to transfer it and make a new home.
Even if everyone told me that I was the A-hole, it wouldn't have changed a thing, I'd still take my plants and garden furniture with me. Why are people looking on the internet for confirmation from complete strangers?
Are you asking us strangers to answer that question??? 🤣 Sorry. 😃
Load More Replies...NTA and I am a landlord! They should have offered to pay for those improvements - your money, your labour, YOUR PROPERTY. We allow tenants a lot of freedom in decoration (gardens, paint walls, paint cabinets). The agreement is that If we don't like the change, it must be reversed by upon vacancy. If there are items, furniture, or other changes we like, we try to negotiate a deal.
Another idea: every time a tenant makes an improvement, especially one that they won’t be able to take with them, tell them to keep their receipts. You do a walkthrough of the improvements, add the receipt total plus a fair amount for their labor, and knock that grand total off their rent. They’re doing you a favor by improving your property, so it’s only fair you repay them for it. My husband and I have that kind of agreement with our landlord, who’s getting older and likes not having to worry about upkeep. He’s also always been good about repairing and replacing big ticket items when they need it. He knows it’s an old house, and things like the furnace (3 years ago) and central A/C (last year) finally reach their expiration date.
Load More Replies...I once rented an apartment (landlord on 2nd floor, me on 1st floor), that I cleaned and painted. It needed a lot of cleaning, because their adult daughter had lived there and was a real slob. I'm talking needing a spade to scrape up grease under the stove. I got that place looking really nice. Landlord checked it out and actually said, "this would rent for more money." She then proceeded to make life miserable. I soon moved, but not before I did a little more 'decorating.'
First of all you are NTA. Second you paid for it. It is yours. Third NO ONE would have kept the back yard as beautifully as you have and it would have looked like crap within the year. It would be like leaving your dogs behind because they "looked great in the yard" and no one took care of them. Screw'em.
lara, I'm not up on all the 'lingo', what does NTA stand for? Thx. 😋💖🙌🙌🙌😺
Load More Replies...We had a great one when we moved from our last rental. We'd been warned that our landlord would try to screw us on the deposit. We had verbal permission from them to do up the garden, which their property overlooked. I am a gardener by trade so did it up very nicely. I was all prepared to leave the lovely garden for the next tenants but when we came to leave they said that we would be charged our entire deposit for altering the garden. I had the photos of it from when we moved in so changed it back. I literally dug up the nice lawn, shrubs and even two small trees. Planted nettles, brambles etc exactly where they'd been when we moved in, sent the pictures to the letting agent with copies of their originals saying it had now been put back to its original state. They had to give us the deposit. Those landlords owned 30+ houses which they had inherited but just had to try and screw their tenants. It was a petty bit of revenge but God it felt good!
Hell no NTA!!! The landlords have sat back and allowed you to make a beautiful space without ever asking whether you were leaving it all behind... their problem. They were selling with your gardens helping out, if you left behind possessions you could charged until they were removed, your garden was your possession, so it goes. If an estate agent signs off - you is good to go!! We have planted gardens at our rental and screening bushes etc... but we let the owners know what we were up to and have only planted low maintenence plants that can survive without watering... coz they will stay here...
Can't be that hard for the landlord to put in a few plants to make it look like before; and/or update the listing pictures. "Garden space ready for your vision".
I'm guessing you haven't seen how much an "oasis" costs to install on a piece of property(?). It can be in the THOUSANDS $$$$! The landlord knows this, that's why he tried to pull a fast one! 😏
Load More Replies...When I was young, my parents fixed up the rental property we lived in. The landlord stopped by one day to say hi. He saw what they had done to it, and put it up for sale. We left it as it as found, minus the things we had added such as corkboards, blackboards, stove vent, cabinets etc. My parents had paid for every single improvement, so they took it all with them when they left. They repaired any damage their additions had done, (holes in the wall to hang the giant chalkboard wall etc) and left. The landlord tried to sue them, but lost his case in court. It was in better condition when we left than when we had moved in, but that wasn't enough for the landlord. Oh well!
How can those people she knows possibly even suggest that she's in the wrong? So if I spend years feeding, housing, buying special equipment for say a tropical fish collection, could the landlord ask for that? NO. Sadly, yet another case of greedy people a) showing no respect for a creators work and b) wanting money for doing absolutely nothing.
NTA!!! My cousin has always rented. She loves a beautiful garden too, but because she rents, she makes sure to plant all of her plants, etc. in containers that she moves with her when she moves out. I'm surprised that your landlord didn't insist that you leave all your household furniture too. What a jerk! BTW, so are your co-workers. Don't listen to them!
So my husband and I are landlords for one home (and only one home). If the landlord is using a third-party for management, then he needed to have had that discussion with his property mgt company re: the status of the garden. I would never presume that if my renters had lawn furniture, hammock, trampoline, potted plants, bird bath, bird feeders, kids swing set, or what-not would be left behind for my use. Garden/yard items that are not expressly in rooted in the ground (like a tree or bush or sprinkler system) are not chattel and not automatically transferable. So yeah, OP is NTA, the landlord is...
most of the time, a renter will do things like this but not take into consideration to make it with portable items or things that can be broken down and transported. this person did and so taking her things with her makes her NTA. that's a lot of time, money, and energy. now, if the landlord had at any time questioned her in regards to if anything was a permanent fixture he/she could have negotiated with her to keep the yard as she had developed with perhaps a monetary compensation. so, looks like the landlord better get a landscaper quick
You bring up a great point. The fact that everything was in a portable planter shows that she was aware of the rule not to make permanent changes to property that wasn't hers and that she intended to take it with her. She showed great respect and foresight. Had the landlord done the same, he could initiated a deal whereby in exchange for rent, she would make the backyard permanent. The fact that the landlords did not do this means they would rather have had the money for rent. The fact that they demanded it back mean they were hoping to unfairly profit. They were likely surprised that everything was portable and upset they didn't get the unearned bonus as evidenced by their demand that she give it back. I wonder if they contacted a landscaper before making their demand to her.
Load More Replies...Very pathetic and sad of the landlord. Saw a "quick buck" and decided to cash in on someones hard work. They had removed the garden in three days, I thought helping a friend clean out her hoarded large 3 bed 2 bath house was hard. Kudos to the renter. She obviously works very hard in all areas of her life and have very understanding and helpful family and friends, which you usually only get those by being a very good person. Landlord wanted to be a grinch ..a sneaky grinch .. and probably thought she couldn't dismantle everything in time for her to be out, but she got to work and got it done. PLUS, what ever was in her house that she moved too. She must be relieved that this nightmare is over with. Not sure how long the landlord gave her a warning of it going up for sell.. but what she (the tenant) did was outstanding. Eat your healthy fertilized dirt, Landowner. The landlord also obviously didn't expect an 18 (at the time) year old to be as smart to save the before photos. Very smart!
Definitely NTA. It's her property, she made an investment and should be allowed to keep it and enjoy the spoils elsewhere. Otherwise tenants would have little incentive to invest in garden, which is worse for society as a whole. So right wing classical liberal point of view seems to be appropriate: you can take the garden with you.
Pretty clear that she knew her occupancy was temporary by her choice to plant her garden in removable containers. Smart girl!
Also note she could have gotten sued for LEAVING the stuff there. Landlords have a right to demand the property be left as it was before she moved in -- not a right to demand the tenant improve the property. There have been lots of cases where tenants repainted or did other work on the properties they were renting only to be taken for the cost of restoring it to the original state.
Absolutely NTA! The landlord looked at the IMPROVEMENTS to his property as his. But if nothing was planted or permanent, in no way does any of her pots and greenhouse belongs to him. Not to mention all the time and effort she put into this. Serves him right for being TA.
How totally presumptuous and entitled of your former Landlords to expect you to leave your garden. You worked hard and spent hard earned money to make that backyard into an oasis for your enjoyment. If they wanted you to leave the garden they could have asked you and pay you for it. Girl forget them, and anyone who says you are in the wrong has their head so far up their butt they do not know what day it is. You are in the right.
all homeowners with well-developed, expensive beautiful gardens please note: You can take it with you, too. You can move any of your plants into pots or take them to the new house you just bought. The only proviso/requirement is that you do this BEFORE you list the property. If you move stuff after you list the property & sign an earnest money contract, you and your broker can be sued sued sued. And your broker will throw a fit and may even stop trying to sell the house. Once listed, everything has to stay, since all homes are ultimately sold as-is. The only way you can get away with this after you have signed & returned an earnest money contract is upon written explicit permission from the buyer. Venditor cave!
A good long while back I once spent quite a bit of money repairing a couple of old windows in a rental property that the landlord refused to fix- massively improving the comfort of the place- I was a trained building conservation expert, so no joke- that landlord got 5000+ free work conserving two historic (200 year old) windows for free. The landlord was overjoyed at the time "oh you shouldn't have gone to such bother, it's much better than it needs to be- fixing these old windows is so expensive!" Right up until I gave notice to leave, when suddenly they tried to take my whole deposit back for "unauthorised additions" to the house. Took them to court. Showed the before and after pictures and the judge more or less said to the Landlord "what? You're lucky you tenant hasn't invoiced YOU!". Still makes me smile to this day.
What? You owe them nothing. Your belongings are yours. Leave nothing that wasn’t there when you moved in.
Hypothesis: the coworkers who say the garden (that the renter rightfully owns) should be left behind, are actually homeowners/landlords. They are biased and looking out for their own group.
NTA! Our final landlord (before buying our first home) did something similar when we took cuttings of the rose bushes we planted and most of them died shortly after we moved out... we couldn't dig them up because they had rooted so much but I didn't want to not take them with us, so we took 12 cuttings from each plant and planted them in pots to take with us. Before we left they were alive but ropey, the landlord then moaned when they went to take pictures to advertise for new tenants because the front garden didn't look at nice. Similarly to the poster, we were allowed to garden and the garden was barren before we moved in (mud instead of grass, no pathway etc) and we'd worked hard to get it nice :)
Good for you....happy gardening in your new home... The sleazy landlords want go cash in on all your hard work. Good for you with your photo documentation...
can't believe this is even a discussion, you don't leave the furniture that you bought for the place so why would you leave the plants??? Funny how they say it's their plants with no evidence lol. And the coworkers are the assholes themselves to be honest.
NTA, the landlord has decided to throw them out and is banking on being able to steal her property. The fact that the entire setup can be moved in 72 hours is proof it wasn't 'firmly affixed or attached to the property' under the legal definition. I hope he rots in hell.
NTA Well, you bought a lot of stuff, and put a lot of hours in...of course it raised the value of the property. But it was still all your stuff, not the property of the landlord. If they wanted to sell your patio, greenhouse and pizza oven with the house, they should have made that clear to you, and agreed a fair price to pay you for your materials and labour.
How could they possibly be the asshole here? They were their possessions same as if they'd be ornaments. I myself once got stung by this when i bought a house that had an utterly beautiful garden when i looked round.... to my mind, i'd be moving into that in all it's glory.. fish pond as it was etc. After moving in and most of the plants had gone, and the fishpond was bare of coy carp etc i rang my dad to complain...... and the very first thing he said to me was 'did you check beforehand?'......... erm no dad......... 'well son.. hard lesson right now... but you should have checked..... but if all their flowers and plants were in pots, it's not like you can't grow your own now or buy your own fish is it?' that buy was my first....... but every time i've bought since i've made sure as s**t I get the estate agents (realtors) to detail EVERYTHING included in the sale........ even the light bulbs
interesting how the landlord decided to sell after she fixed the backyard herself. she has every right to take her garden with her she put in the time and effort and paid for it all so it belongs to her not the property. the landlord was trying to profit off of her hard work
The garden is a selling point for a lot of potential buyers and the landlord obviously hoped to profit from the tenant's hard work and expenditure. Just one question, Is the current landlord the same one as when the tenant moved in or has ownership of the property changed during her occupation?
It's your stuff. The landlord should have offered to buy the shed and plants from you. He didn't. Too bad, so sad.
NTA (as in NeverTA) for doing that! You paid for everything, used your labor, and made sure everything was temporary, not permanently constructed. Unless there is a clause in the lease that specifically states that " In exchange for allowing property improvements, the tenant agrees that all improvements become the property of the owner " you don't owe them anything. How dare they assume they are entitled to profit from your expenditure, time, and labor? A decent human being would have approached you and asked if you would be willing to leave everything and how much you wanted for it. The really fair way to have done it would have been to have two current appraisals done at their expense! One based on how it was and one based on how it is. They should then have offered you a minimum of 80% of the property value increase. If it is worth it to you, you can accept it and if not you just refuse and let them spend their own $$$ to recreate it from the pictures they took.
Definitely NTA. My husband & I rent a townhouse with a nice patio and small side yard (I call it the yardette). Over the past 8 years we have experimented with several different garden ideas and just this summer, finally found one that works for us. If & when we ever move I'll be happy to leave the pebble path and the plants, but no way in hell would I leave my birdbath or statue of St. Francis. Also, our landlord didn't want to pay for a screen door on the front. The HOA insists it be a white vinyl retractable screen, which is of course, just about the most expensive. So we bought one ourselves. You can bet we're taking that as well. (Unless he wants to reimburse us the $200 we paid).
NTA - I can almost hear them screaming; "there was soap in the soapdish when the house was listed! "there's clearly a 2019 black Maserati in the driveway photos!" "we were under the understanding the dog was INCLUDED!" 254610467_...621ef6.jpg
NTA. It wasn't there before, when you moved in and they didn't pay for it or you to do the work. I don't think there is a judge in the world that would make you put everything back since you returned it to it's original state before you moved in.
So...they expect to profit from your hard work, leaving you with nothing? Pretty sure that constitutes exploitation and/or slavery. Do they also expect you to leave all the furniture, food, goods, and clothing you also purchased while living there?
Here in England my father and I moved out of a house advertised as having a lovely well established garden We would actually have been entitled to have trees and shrubs dug up and moved to our new house. We didn't but we could have done.
NTA, but that being said, I don't think I've ever taken any things like that when I've rented. Decorative pots and such...yes, but I have always been a believer in leaving things better than when I've gotten it.
NTA!....Were they going to share a portion of the profits for the sale of the house? They were idiots to include your property in the valuation and offer without discussing compensation with you. They deserve to have the buyer walk out. Also whatever coworkers disagreed with you must be people using a-hole themselves. You cannot expect to gain reward for work you didn't do!
Funny how they take away your deposit when they claim you didn't leave the property as "clean" as when you moved in. We learnt the hard way and had to take photos. In France, when you sell your house that is actually on-lease, you are required by law to ask the actual tenant if they want to buy it before putting it on the market.
I'm a landlord, and NTA here! Everything she had was portable and removable. It's the landlords fault for not communicating. I'm also a gardener, I totally get this!
I can't believe you didn't post pictures of the dirt patio as you left it. Nothing more fun than a before and after
Had the landlord paid her $100000 for the greenery, fine. Now, f--k em. Her work, her stuff, their f--king problem.
And that could be a huge problem to buyers, if landlord managed to show them house before she moved, then they have the deal, she moved and then buyers were left with much shitier house,then they expected. I think that was the original plan of landlord^ not to pay for garden, but to take huge advantage from it.
When you're buying a place, you have to be careful that any chattels you expect are listed in the contract. If the landlord listed chattels that belonged to the TENANT, then wtf were they doing
They could have paid you to keep it. Or, they could pay you now, to redecorate it. But, it's your property!
NTA when I moved into my flat I had to wait for my landlord to 'factory reset' it. All the walls got painted magnolia. My landlord gives me all the creative freedom for the flat and garden. They should have expected you'd take the garden it was poor judgement and selfish greed on their part. That being said my garden is a s**t hole thanks to the last people so your landlords should be grateful that it's in a normal condition and not trashed
I have a job where we need to move houses every few years. I enjoy gardening but I plant in pots so I can take the plants that I have paid for and nurtured/not yet killed with me. If I put anything in the ground, I leave it. These plants and fixtures, none of which are cheap, are her possessions and she has moved them like she would her bed or sofa. As long as she hasn't left any gaping holes in the ground, she is NTA.
You could offer to design their garden for them for a price. Make a buck or two! Your work is obviously worthy of getting paid for.
Wow! I am so impressed with the amazing back yard you built and so very proud of you for taking it all with you 😊 It was your time and money and you are legally required to leave the property in the state that it was when you moved in. Go you good thing and I hope that you enjoy your beautiful garden in your new home 😊
Sorry landlord they should of asked her about her garden before the even thought about including it with the house. But what happened was they got the estimate with and without the garden and seen the price and tried to get over. Bomb 💣 it backed fired good for you landlord
It's not your fault prospective buyers are too lazy to do the same thing. NTA.
To be fair, some people would be able to keep it up just fine, but maybe not be able to design and build it from scratch. That’s not lazy, that’s just knowing your limitations. Of course, they could hire the previous tenant to landscape the yard—-that she’s already very familiar with—-permanently this time, for a decent price.
Load More Replies...Landscaping is one thing, but a garden is another. It shouldn't affect the valuation of a home.
Sounds like the tenant made a JERK move. COMMUNICATE! They didn't even discuss removing the garden. They may have offered to compensate so both parties benefit. Be careful how you look at this. Planting flowers is a temporary thing to be enjoyed by the tenant. However, removing them affects the landlord/ property owner/ manager. That's when compensation is reasonably expected.
Strange question. Clearly you’re within your rights. Unless you are (or were I suppose) friends with the landlord, why does it matter what they say?
NTA, although clearer communication would be better. Your landlords could do better planning accordingly.
If your lease/contract doesn't specify leaving the state of the garden as is, or that any additional structures are to be left behind, then you're in the clear. That being said, I think it's obvious that there are no legal issues here. The issue is the question of malice with the OP not really being aware that the landlord was using the garden as part of the selling point, and even if she has a little inkling of that being a possibility, they could've mentioned it to the landlord as a matter of courtesy. No issue legally, but for being a courteous individual...that's the question.
I moved into an apt. With lrg back yard previous tenant was a Gardner wan a be. She took plants. Left tons of junk, holes, trash, plastic, poles, etc. It took me and my soon weeks too clean up the hell hole, I did some work too trim trees and fix fences. Put in a corner flower bed. And edging, a small patio set. For morning coffee and book reading. When I moved out. Everything was trimmed, mulched, and mowed, the next guy moved in filled the yard with scrap metal and junk!! Took my old landlord 4 days and 15 U-Haul 6 loads too dump!!
I think I would have asked the landlord if they would like to buy the stuffs, but I'm just lazy and wouldn't want to dig everything up and replant (I'm talking pavers, plants, etc). I have a house I'm renting out and we are going to be selling it soon, and we actually went through and told the tenants the things we'd like to buy from them (they had bought a couple appliances)
Why should she have mentioned that? You don't mention to your landlord that you're taking your furniture n decor? It's the same thing. It's decor. It was her property. She had no obligation to anyone to explain herself. Idk why ppl think that it's different than a couch or a bed. It's the same thing. It's non permanent decor n furniture. She did everything 100% right. Others made assumptions. Not her fault at all.
Load More Replies...It isn't a capital improvement if it is all temporary and portable. Ask everyone with a shed that isn't on a foundation... ask people who own mobile homes...
Load More Replies...Your response doesn't make any sense. The landlord just hit her with, the need to come up with double rent or whatever the deposit will be in the new place, time out her life to find a new home, and the time and effort of moving. And you expect her, in the midst of all that, to stop and consider how to make the landlords life easier? The landlord was within their rights to sell their home. And she was within hers to take her stuff. It isn't her responsibility to make the landlord aware of what they need to do to sell their home. She has her own problems. It's not indecent to deal with your mess and let others deal with theirs.
Load More Replies...Then the landlord should have offered to pay for the upgrades they were expecting to profit off of.
Load More Replies...If the landlord took photos of the inside of the property would you be required to leave your furniture too? No. Take your possessions with you, including plants and garden supplies. 100% NTA.
NTA! The landlord wants to profit from the sweat of her backbreaking work, passion, and skills. To hell with that. They could never adequately compensate her for the amount of time that she put into the garden. It's a unending passion project for people who truly love to garden. They work in them daily. You can't put a value on that kind of dedication to your own garden. Any landlord worth their salt would've mentioned compensation for work being done around the yard years ago and learned what her plans were for it, instead of waiting to see, assuming it belonged to them. It takes some real balls to assume that the kind of upgrades she did like sheds, pizza oven, etc would be theirs at no cost. They're buffoons and deserve the garden to look as it did when she moved in. It was never her job to repair it. They didn't take pride in it. Why should it be left on her shoulders. That was her happy place, so glad she'll continue to enjoy it 😊
Load More Replies...I would like to see it as well, I can imagine how beautiful it is
Load More Replies...Nobody seems to be talking about it, but I give you 4:1 odds that the REASON they were "planning to sell" was because they thought she had increased the value of the property to something higher than they were charging her (since rent for current tenants can only be raised so much so often, at least where I live). They got greedy, and now they got nothing.
This. 1000% this. They figured they'd be able to take advantage of this young woman's hard work and supplies bought with her own money so that they could turn a tidy profit. Pure greed. Instead of a free garden and a new, higher-paying renter (or buyer), they have the same barren backyard they had before and NO renter with a property sitting empty and not generating income. Serves them right.
Load More Replies...I had a landlord take me to court years ago because I took all my plants when I moved. Potted plants, not in the ground. The judge LOL.
I hope the judge fined him for wasting the court's time.
Load More Replies...If they wanted you to leave it, the decent thing would have been for them to approach you about buying the garden from you. Otherwise, they can't get something for nothing. NTA
The decent thing would have been to let her keep her home? Lmfao
Load More Replies...Her money, her labor, her garden, none of it permanent, none of it done by owner. Enjoy garden elsewhere, landlord idiotic to assume tenant wouldn't take improvements with. When we rented, if I caulked or whatever, yeah, fine, that stayed, but my garden boxes didn't.
All the plants and installations was bought with HER money, its HER property. If her landowners wanted them, they should have at least offered to buy them.
LOL! If the tenant had left it, I bet the landlord would have tried to ding them on the deposit for leaving "trash" behind.
The landlord was not her contact, in the 5th panel mentioned an agent "signed off and she received her deposit back. So if anyone was 'dinged' by the landlord, it's the real estate agent who send off with the client. She worked with a 3rd party.
Load More Replies...People who garden or plant trees know how personal gardens can become, just like how we love our pets. My family has become so much attached to plants we grew within this lockdown that not taking them with us when/if we move out sounds ridiculous to us.
I can guarantee you that if they had left the garden how it was then the landlord would've tried to keep the deposit on the grounds "the property isn't how it was when you moved in". My sisters boyfriend spend hundreds of pounds renovating his bathroom in a rented house because it was unsightly before and the landlord kept his deposit because of it. In short, landlords are the devil who will strip you of every penny they think they can get their grubby little hands on. Don't feel bad for them, ever.
The level of entitlement is staggering. The tenant spent her own money, time, and effort to improve her living space. Would they have expected her to leave her furniture too?!
I don’t understand why it wasn’t discussed prior to the move. Landlord was probably really hoping to get it for free! If the photos are of the actual garden it must have been magnificent.
We've given our tenants notice. Their garden is so beautiful and I sincerely hope they manage to transfer it and make a new home.
Even if everyone told me that I was the A-hole, it wouldn't have changed a thing, I'd still take my plants and garden furniture with me. Why are people looking on the internet for confirmation from complete strangers?
Are you asking us strangers to answer that question??? 🤣 Sorry. 😃
Load More Replies...NTA and I am a landlord! They should have offered to pay for those improvements - your money, your labour, YOUR PROPERTY. We allow tenants a lot of freedom in decoration (gardens, paint walls, paint cabinets). The agreement is that If we don't like the change, it must be reversed by upon vacancy. If there are items, furniture, or other changes we like, we try to negotiate a deal.
Another idea: every time a tenant makes an improvement, especially one that they won’t be able to take with them, tell them to keep their receipts. You do a walkthrough of the improvements, add the receipt total plus a fair amount for their labor, and knock that grand total off their rent. They’re doing you a favor by improving your property, so it’s only fair you repay them for it. My husband and I have that kind of agreement with our landlord, who’s getting older and likes not having to worry about upkeep. He’s also always been good about repairing and replacing big ticket items when they need it. He knows it’s an old house, and things like the furnace (3 years ago) and central A/C (last year) finally reach their expiration date.
Load More Replies...I once rented an apartment (landlord on 2nd floor, me on 1st floor), that I cleaned and painted. It needed a lot of cleaning, because their adult daughter had lived there and was a real slob. I'm talking needing a spade to scrape up grease under the stove. I got that place looking really nice. Landlord checked it out and actually said, "this would rent for more money." She then proceeded to make life miserable. I soon moved, but not before I did a little more 'decorating.'
First of all you are NTA. Second you paid for it. It is yours. Third NO ONE would have kept the back yard as beautifully as you have and it would have looked like crap within the year. It would be like leaving your dogs behind because they "looked great in the yard" and no one took care of them. Screw'em.
lara, I'm not up on all the 'lingo', what does NTA stand for? Thx. 😋💖🙌🙌🙌😺
Load More Replies...We had a great one when we moved from our last rental. We'd been warned that our landlord would try to screw us on the deposit. We had verbal permission from them to do up the garden, which their property overlooked. I am a gardener by trade so did it up very nicely. I was all prepared to leave the lovely garden for the next tenants but when we came to leave they said that we would be charged our entire deposit for altering the garden. I had the photos of it from when we moved in so changed it back. I literally dug up the nice lawn, shrubs and even two small trees. Planted nettles, brambles etc exactly where they'd been when we moved in, sent the pictures to the letting agent with copies of their originals saying it had now been put back to its original state. They had to give us the deposit. Those landlords owned 30+ houses which they had inherited but just had to try and screw their tenants. It was a petty bit of revenge but God it felt good!
Hell no NTA!!! The landlords have sat back and allowed you to make a beautiful space without ever asking whether you were leaving it all behind... their problem. They were selling with your gardens helping out, if you left behind possessions you could charged until they were removed, your garden was your possession, so it goes. If an estate agent signs off - you is good to go!! We have planted gardens at our rental and screening bushes etc... but we let the owners know what we were up to and have only planted low maintenence plants that can survive without watering... coz they will stay here...
Can't be that hard for the landlord to put in a few plants to make it look like before; and/or update the listing pictures. "Garden space ready for your vision".
I'm guessing you haven't seen how much an "oasis" costs to install on a piece of property(?). It can be in the THOUSANDS $$$$! The landlord knows this, that's why he tried to pull a fast one! 😏
Load More Replies...When I was young, my parents fixed up the rental property we lived in. The landlord stopped by one day to say hi. He saw what they had done to it, and put it up for sale. We left it as it as found, minus the things we had added such as corkboards, blackboards, stove vent, cabinets etc. My parents had paid for every single improvement, so they took it all with them when they left. They repaired any damage their additions had done, (holes in the wall to hang the giant chalkboard wall etc) and left. The landlord tried to sue them, but lost his case in court. It was in better condition when we left than when we had moved in, but that wasn't enough for the landlord. Oh well!
How can those people she knows possibly even suggest that she's in the wrong? So if I spend years feeding, housing, buying special equipment for say a tropical fish collection, could the landlord ask for that? NO. Sadly, yet another case of greedy people a) showing no respect for a creators work and b) wanting money for doing absolutely nothing.
NTA!!! My cousin has always rented. She loves a beautiful garden too, but because she rents, she makes sure to plant all of her plants, etc. in containers that she moves with her when she moves out. I'm surprised that your landlord didn't insist that you leave all your household furniture too. What a jerk! BTW, so are your co-workers. Don't listen to them!
So my husband and I are landlords for one home (and only one home). If the landlord is using a third-party for management, then he needed to have had that discussion with his property mgt company re: the status of the garden. I would never presume that if my renters had lawn furniture, hammock, trampoline, potted plants, bird bath, bird feeders, kids swing set, or what-not would be left behind for my use. Garden/yard items that are not expressly in rooted in the ground (like a tree or bush or sprinkler system) are not chattel and not automatically transferable. So yeah, OP is NTA, the landlord is...
most of the time, a renter will do things like this but not take into consideration to make it with portable items or things that can be broken down and transported. this person did and so taking her things with her makes her NTA. that's a lot of time, money, and energy. now, if the landlord had at any time questioned her in regards to if anything was a permanent fixture he/she could have negotiated with her to keep the yard as she had developed with perhaps a monetary compensation. so, looks like the landlord better get a landscaper quick
You bring up a great point. The fact that everything was in a portable planter shows that she was aware of the rule not to make permanent changes to property that wasn't hers and that she intended to take it with her. She showed great respect and foresight. Had the landlord done the same, he could initiated a deal whereby in exchange for rent, she would make the backyard permanent. The fact that the landlords did not do this means they would rather have had the money for rent. The fact that they demanded it back mean they were hoping to unfairly profit. They were likely surprised that everything was portable and upset they didn't get the unearned bonus as evidenced by their demand that she give it back. I wonder if they contacted a landscaper before making their demand to her.
Load More Replies...Very pathetic and sad of the landlord. Saw a "quick buck" and decided to cash in on someones hard work. They had removed the garden in three days, I thought helping a friend clean out her hoarded large 3 bed 2 bath house was hard. Kudos to the renter. She obviously works very hard in all areas of her life and have very understanding and helpful family and friends, which you usually only get those by being a very good person. Landlord wanted to be a grinch ..a sneaky grinch .. and probably thought she couldn't dismantle everything in time for her to be out, but she got to work and got it done. PLUS, what ever was in her house that she moved too. She must be relieved that this nightmare is over with. Not sure how long the landlord gave her a warning of it going up for sell.. but what she (the tenant) did was outstanding. Eat your healthy fertilized dirt, Landowner. The landlord also obviously didn't expect an 18 (at the time) year old to be as smart to save the before photos. Very smart!
Definitely NTA. It's her property, she made an investment and should be allowed to keep it and enjoy the spoils elsewhere. Otherwise tenants would have little incentive to invest in garden, which is worse for society as a whole. So right wing classical liberal point of view seems to be appropriate: you can take the garden with you.
Pretty clear that she knew her occupancy was temporary by her choice to plant her garden in removable containers. Smart girl!
Also note she could have gotten sued for LEAVING the stuff there. Landlords have a right to demand the property be left as it was before she moved in -- not a right to demand the tenant improve the property. There have been lots of cases where tenants repainted or did other work on the properties they were renting only to be taken for the cost of restoring it to the original state.
Absolutely NTA! The landlord looked at the IMPROVEMENTS to his property as his. But if nothing was planted or permanent, in no way does any of her pots and greenhouse belongs to him. Not to mention all the time and effort she put into this. Serves him right for being TA.
How totally presumptuous and entitled of your former Landlords to expect you to leave your garden. You worked hard and spent hard earned money to make that backyard into an oasis for your enjoyment. If they wanted you to leave the garden they could have asked you and pay you for it. Girl forget them, and anyone who says you are in the wrong has their head so far up their butt they do not know what day it is. You are in the right.
all homeowners with well-developed, expensive beautiful gardens please note: You can take it with you, too. You can move any of your plants into pots or take them to the new house you just bought. The only proviso/requirement is that you do this BEFORE you list the property. If you move stuff after you list the property & sign an earnest money contract, you and your broker can be sued sued sued. And your broker will throw a fit and may even stop trying to sell the house. Once listed, everything has to stay, since all homes are ultimately sold as-is. The only way you can get away with this after you have signed & returned an earnest money contract is upon written explicit permission from the buyer. Venditor cave!
A good long while back I once spent quite a bit of money repairing a couple of old windows in a rental property that the landlord refused to fix- massively improving the comfort of the place- I was a trained building conservation expert, so no joke- that landlord got 5000+ free work conserving two historic (200 year old) windows for free. The landlord was overjoyed at the time "oh you shouldn't have gone to such bother, it's much better than it needs to be- fixing these old windows is so expensive!" Right up until I gave notice to leave, when suddenly they tried to take my whole deposit back for "unauthorised additions" to the house. Took them to court. Showed the before and after pictures and the judge more or less said to the Landlord "what? You're lucky you tenant hasn't invoiced YOU!". Still makes me smile to this day.
What? You owe them nothing. Your belongings are yours. Leave nothing that wasn’t there when you moved in.
Hypothesis: the coworkers who say the garden (that the renter rightfully owns) should be left behind, are actually homeowners/landlords. They are biased and looking out for their own group.
NTA! Our final landlord (before buying our first home) did something similar when we took cuttings of the rose bushes we planted and most of them died shortly after we moved out... we couldn't dig them up because they had rooted so much but I didn't want to not take them with us, so we took 12 cuttings from each plant and planted them in pots to take with us. Before we left they were alive but ropey, the landlord then moaned when they went to take pictures to advertise for new tenants because the front garden didn't look at nice. Similarly to the poster, we were allowed to garden and the garden was barren before we moved in (mud instead of grass, no pathway etc) and we'd worked hard to get it nice :)
Good for you....happy gardening in your new home... The sleazy landlords want go cash in on all your hard work. Good for you with your photo documentation...
can't believe this is even a discussion, you don't leave the furniture that you bought for the place so why would you leave the plants??? Funny how they say it's their plants with no evidence lol. And the coworkers are the assholes themselves to be honest.
NTA, the landlord has decided to throw them out and is banking on being able to steal her property. The fact that the entire setup can be moved in 72 hours is proof it wasn't 'firmly affixed or attached to the property' under the legal definition. I hope he rots in hell.
NTA Well, you bought a lot of stuff, and put a lot of hours in...of course it raised the value of the property. But it was still all your stuff, not the property of the landlord. If they wanted to sell your patio, greenhouse and pizza oven with the house, they should have made that clear to you, and agreed a fair price to pay you for your materials and labour.
How could they possibly be the asshole here? They were their possessions same as if they'd be ornaments. I myself once got stung by this when i bought a house that had an utterly beautiful garden when i looked round.... to my mind, i'd be moving into that in all it's glory.. fish pond as it was etc. After moving in and most of the plants had gone, and the fishpond was bare of coy carp etc i rang my dad to complain...... and the very first thing he said to me was 'did you check beforehand?'......... erm no dad......... 'well son.. hard lesson right now... but you should have checked..... but if all their flowers and plants were in pots, it's not like you can't grow your own now or buy your own fish is it?' that buy was my first....... but every time i've bought since i've made sure as s**t I get the estate agents (realtors) to detail EVERYTHING included in the sale........ even the light bulbs
interesting how the landlord decided to sell after she fixed the backyard herself. she has every right to take her garden with her she put in the time and effort and paid for it all so it belongs to her not the property. the landlord was trying to profit off of her hard work
The garden is a selling point for a lot of potential buyers and the landlord obviously hoped to profit from the tenant's hard work and expenditure. Just one question, Is the current landlord the same one as when the tenant moved in or has ownership of the property changed during her occupation?
It's your stuff. The landlord should have offered to buy the shed and plants from you. He didn't. Too bad, so sad.
NTA (as in NeverTA) for doing that! You paid for everything, used your labor, and made sure everything was temporary, not permanently constructed. Unless there is a clause in the lease that specifically states that " In exchange for allowing property improvements, the tenant agrees that all improvements become the property of the owner " you don't owe them anything. How dare they assume they are entitled to profit from your expenditure, time, and labor? A decent human being would have approached you and asked if you would be willing to leave everything and how much you wanted for it. The really fair way to have done it would have been to have two current appraisals done at their expense! One based on how it was and one based on how it is. They should then have offered you a minimum of 80% of the property value increase. If it is worth it to you, you can accept it and if not you just refuse and let them spend their own $$$ to recreate it from the pictures they took.
Definitely NTA. My husband & I rent a townhouse with a nice patio and small side yard (I call it the yardette). Over the past 8 years we have experimented with several different garden ideas and just this summer, finally found one that works for us. If & when we ever move I'll be happy to leave the pebble path and the plants, but no way in hell would I leave my birdbath or statue of St. Francis. Also, our landlord didn't want to pay for a screen door on the front. The HOA insists it be a white vinyl retractable screen, which is of course, just about the most expensive. So we bought one ourselves. You can bet we're taking that as well. (Unless he wants to reimburse us the $200 we paid).
NTA - I can almost hear them screaming; "there was soap in the soapdish when the house was listed! "there's clearly a 2019 black Maserati in the driveway photos!" "we were under the understanding the dog was INCLUDED!" 254610467_...621ef6.jpg
NTA. It wasn't there before, when you moved in and they didn't pay for it or you to do the work. I don't think there is a judge in the world that would make you put everything back since you returned it to it's original state before you moved in.
So...they expect to profit from your hard work, leaving you with nothing? Pretty sure that constitutes exploitation and/or slavery. Do they also expect you to leave all the furniture, food, goods, and clothing you also purchased while living there?
Here in England my father and I moved out of a house advertised as having a lovely well established garden We would actually have been entitled to have trees and shrubs dug up and moved to our new house. We didn't but we could have done.
NTA, but that being said, I don't think I've ever taken any things like that when I've rented. Decorative pots and such...yes, but I have always been a believer in leaving things better than when I've gotten it.
NTA!....Were they going to share a portion of the profits for the sale of the house? They were idiots to include your property in the valuation and offer without discussing compensation with you. They deserve to have the buyer walk out. Also whatever coworkers disagreed with you must be people using a-hole themselves. You cannot expect to gain reward for work you didn't do!
Funny how they take away your deposit when they claim you didn't leave the property as "clean" as when you moved in. We learnt the hard way and had to take photos. In France, when you sell your house that is actually on-lease, you are required by law to ask the actual tenant if they want to buy it before putting it on the market.
I'm a landlord, and NTA here! Everything she had was portable and removable. It's the landlords fault for not communicating. I'm also a gardener, I totally get this!
I can't believe you didn't post pictures of the dirt patio as you left it. Nothing more fun than a before and after
Had the landlord paid her $100000 for the greenery, fine. Now, f--k em. Her work, her stuff, their f--king problem.
And that could be a huge problem to buyers, if landlord managed to show them house before she moved, then they have the deal, she moved and then buyers were left with much shitier house,then they expected. I think that was the original plan of landlord^ not to pay for garden, but to take huge advantage from it.
When you're buying a place, you have to be careful that any chattels you expect are listed in the contract. If the landlord listed chattels that belonged to the TENANT, then wtf were they doing
They could have paid you to keep it. Or, they could pay you now, to redecorate it. But, it's your property!
NTA when I moved into my flat I had to wait for my landlord to 'factory reset' it. All the walls got painted magnolia. My landlord gives me all the creative freedom for the flat and garden. They should have expected you'd take the garden it was poor judgement and selfish greed on their part. That being said my garden is a s**t hole thanks to the last people so your landlords should be grateful that it's in a normal condition and not trashed
I have a job where we need to move houses every few years. I enjoy gardening but I plant in pots so I can take the plants that I have paid for and nurtured/not yet killed with me. If I put anything in the ground, I leave it. These plants and fixtures, none of which are cheap, are her possessions and she has moved them like she would her bed or sofa. As long as she hasn't left any gaping holes in the ground, she is NTA.
You could offer to design their garden for them for a price. Make a buck or two! Your work is obviously worthy of getting paid for.
Wow! I am so impressed with the amazing back yard you built and so very proud of you for taking it all with you 😊 It was your time and money and you are legally required to leave the property in the state that it was when you moved in. Go you good thing and I hope that you enjoy your beautiful garden in your new home 😊
Sorry landlord they should of asked her about her garden before the even thought about including it with the house. But what happened was they got the estimate with and without the garden and seen the price and tried to get over. Bomb 💣 it backed fired good for you landlord
It's not your fault prospective buyers are too lazy to do the same thing. NTA.
To be fair, some people would be able to keep it up just fine, but maybe not be able to design and build it from scratch. That’s not lazy, that’s just knowing your limitations. Of course, they could hire the previous tenant to landscape the yard—-that she’s already very familiar with—-permanently this time, for a decent price.
Load More Replies...Landscaping is one thing, but a garden is another. It shouldn't affect the valuation of a home.
Sounds like the tenant made a JERK move. COMMUNICATE! They didn't even discuss removing the garden. They may have offered to compensate so both parties benefit. Be careful how you look at this. Planting flowers is a temporary thing to be enjoyed by the tenant. However, removing them affects the landlord/ property owner/ manager. That's when compensation is reasonably expected.
Strange question. Clearly you’re within your rights. Unless you are (or were I suppose) friends with the landlord, why does it matter what they say?
NTA, although clearer communication would be better. Your landlords could do better planning accordingly.
If your lease/contract doesn't specify leaving the state of the garden as is, or that any additional structures are to be left behind, then you're in the clear. That being said, I think it's obvious that there are no legal issues here. The issue is the question of malice with the OP not really being aware that the landlord was using the garden as part of the selling point, and even if she has a little inkling of that being a possibility, they could've mentioned it to the landlord as a matter of courtesy. No issue legally, but for being a courteous individual...that's the question.
I moved into an apt. With lrg back yard previous tenant was a Gardner wan a be. She took plants. Left tons of junk, holes, trash, plastic, poles, etc. It took me and my soon weeks too clean up the hell hole, I did some work too trim trees and fix fences. Put in a corner flower bed. And edging, a small patio set. For morning coffee and book reading. When I moved out. Everything was trimmed, mulched, and mowed, the next guy moved in filled the yard with scrap metal and junk!! Took my old landlord 4 days and 15 U-Haul 6 loads too dump!!
I think I would have asked the landlord if they would like to buy the stuffs, but I'm just lazy and wouldn't want to dig everything up and replant (I'm talking pavers, plants, etc). I have a house I'm renting out and we are going to be selling it soon, and we actually went through and told the tenants the things we'd like to buy from them (they had bought a couple appliances)
Why should she have mentioned that? You don't mention to your landlord that you're taking your furniture n decor? It's the same thing. It's decor. It was her property. She had no obligation to anyone to explain herself. Idk why ppl think that it's different than a couch or a bed. It's the same thing. It's non permanent decor n furniture. She did everything 100% right. Others made assumptions. Not her fault at all.
Load More Replies...It isn't a capital improvement if it is all temporary and portable. Ask everyone with a shed that isn't on a foundation... ask people who own mobile homes...
Load More Replies...Your response doesn't make any sense. The landlord just hit her with, the need to come up with double rent or whatever the deposit will be in the new place, time out her life to find a new home, and the time and effort of moving. And you expect her, in the midst of all that, to stop and consider how to make the landlords life easier? The landlord was within their rights to sell their home. And she was within hers to take her stuff. It isn't her responsibility to make the landlord aware of what they need to do to sell their home. She has her own problems. It's not indecent to deal with your mess and let others deal with theirs.
Load More Replies...Then the landlord should have offered to pay for the upgrades they were expecting to profit off of.
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