“Am I The [Jerk] For Not Giving Up My “Man Cave” To Accommodate My Mother-In-Law?”
Everyone needs their own corner. A place where you can relax, recharge, and be yourself. A place where you set the rules and nobody intrudes.
So when Reddit user u/needmyspaceaita had built himself such a space, he wasn’t willing to let go of it. Even if it meant having a marital conflict.
You see, his wife demanded the man give up his “man cave” so that her mother could move in with them. u/needmyspaceaita tried to compromise but the couple couldn’t reach an agreement.
After the whole thing blew into a huge argument, he made a post, explaining the whole situation and asking whether or not he’s being too stubborn.
Continue scrolling to learn exactly what had happened.
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Relationship coach Jessica Brighton thinks that talking it through is pretty much the best thing partners can do when they see eye to eye on all but one thing.
“The key to a resolution becomes communication and the concept of picking your battles,” she told Bustle. “You need to have an extensive conversation to discuss your feelings and where each of you stands on the issue. If you determine that you are still unable to find common ground, then a compromise and agreeing to disagree may be your best plan of action.”
Brighton noted that nothing is perfect, but it’s necessary to focus on the positive and reframe your outlook if you want to stay together.
“We all have to deal with negative issues and unpleasant situations in the other avenues of our lives,” she said. “Why deal with one more in your personal life? If you determine that the positives in your relationship outweigh the negatives, I suggest you embrace the positivity and happiness that your relationship brings you and focus less on the one negative issue.”
Here’s what people made of the story
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However, finding a way to express your concerns to one another can be difficult. This is where clarity becomes crucial, as you don’t want your partner to focus their emotional energy on a counterargument to something you didn’t suggest. According to Catherine E. Aponte, Psy.D, it’s all about taking a beat to think over what you want before bringing it up.
“Being able to be clear about your specific take [something] and being able to clearly state your wishes or concerns is important to finding a workable compromise,” Dr. Aponte told Fatherly.
“Each of you wants to be able to express what you want to happen. Each of you is willing to explain why what you want to do is important to you. Each should give the other the opportunity to express his or her preference, without interruption.”
So if you find yourself in a similar predicament, the best course of action is to keep talking. Not calling each other nasty names.
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The most important question here is "What does the mother in law want?" I've read what he and his wife want and don't want, but nothing about how the MIL feels about moving in with her daughter. I can think of millions of reasons why the MIL wouldn't want to live under one roof with her daughter and her family. This whole drama could turn out to be totally unnecessary in the end.
That's an important consideration. My folks finally came to an agreement about converting my dad's garage into an apartment for her after who knows how many rounds of arguments only for grandma to tell them "heck no, I've got my own house!".
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One way to win the wife over about finding a closer place for your MIL is that, if G-ma has her own place, there is a place for the kids to go after school and the kids spending time at G-mas gives you the opportunity to have some alone time with your wife..everyone wins. To the person who suggested that he move his Man Cave to the Garage, you could just as easily convert the garage to a MIL suite. Then, after G-ma passes, make it a She Shed for the wife. Also, has anyone asked the MIL what she wants. She may not want to be around the grandkids 24/7. Maybe a senior community where she will be looked after AND be around people her own age for company. Just make it somewhere near where you live so your wife can visit her mother.
Agreed. Why not just find another Solution? Also basically it is his House and he gets to decide what happens to his belongings. He's already very generous in my opinion. Also is there a way to separate one of the rooms into two smaller rooms? The Kids can have smaller rooms and it'll still be their own rooms. Also once they get older (seeing that one is already 10) they will also benefit from his Man Cave. I'm sure it'll be a perfect party room for them and their friends once they are 14?
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The title used to be "Am I the asshole for not giving up my man cave for my mother-in-law with health issues?" & I was immediately ready to say "Yes, family comes first, especially in times of need!" But after reading the article, there's no "need" at all. The wife doesn't want to move MIL in to take care of her failing health, she wants to take over because MIL is lonely when there are so many better options to fix the problem that don't end in destroying someone's hard-earned luxury. I also feel like, thanks to stereotypes about men disappearing into their man caves to leave their wives with all the work of child-rearing & chores, more people will be quick to blame him without hearing the full story. They'll assume he's really selfish when in reality he's been very generous with his family, but has a boundary about his personal area. I wonder if there would be less immediate bias if he had a craft room instead. Ignore me, this is just my two cents on the title! NTA!
Do you love the baement enough to divorce your wife over it? Make a choice.
Yes. That's the whole point of the question. The wife is demanding complete ownership of HIS house. It's not even her house.
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Why are they obsessed with her being in the household? Build an addition, or a "guesthouse", convert a garage, find a place nearby, but if her health is failing? Unless you are willing to become her full-time caretaker, *no*. Just *no*. the results can devastate finances, families, personal health, and oh, yeah, you get people kililng the resident in-law just to be done with the stress. The wife is grieving, this is her process, but it's better to get counseling than go through *this* mess.
And I wonder how the wife is going to handle it when her mommy's health declines to the point of needing to be spoon fed like a baby, and having her diapers changed? I've worked in nursing homes as a CNA, and it ain't pretty! Cleaning a catheter bag, clearing a bowel impaction - not for the weak, lol
Load More Replies... I was in a similar situation although with WAY less investment in a personal space. Long and short my wife and her brother decided the MIL would split her year with us [she ends up with us easily 8months of the year] without my input. I have resented it almost every moment. We DID build an attachment to our house which made it better than when her bedroom was across the hall from our door. No one would even consider the suggestion she get a place nearby [she's independently wealthy at this point and physically independent as well although she lets her children take care of her every need because why should she learn to do anything in her early 70's]. I unhappily tolerate it BUT if my spouse passes on before me and MIL, she is out.
That's a huge stress on a marriage to have someone treat your home like a free B&B. I have no issues with emergency situations. This is just exploitation. Either your MIL manipulated her children into thinking it's an obligation or she's twisted their arms by implying that she'll cut them out the will otherwise (if inheritance is a factor, there's no guarantee there - people can blow money or change wills on a whim).
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I kinda get the situation.. for the last 7 years I've lived alone and my spare room is my man cave/gaming room. Sadly my g/f's mum recently passed away and her siblings are insisting her mum's house is sold. It's been my g/f's home since forever, but the other two siblings don't really see it as a home because they both have famiies and their own place so they just see it as their inheritance and want it asap. I'm happy to have my girlfriend move in with me, and she practically has anyway since her mum passed away as I don't want her spending time alone in that house full of memories of her mum so she's stayed here every night anyway. My place is small... in fact my man cave is only about 12ft by 7ft - but I'll shift t hings around so it's turned into an us-cave rather than a me-cave - Life is full of compromises, and in my case I'm happy to...however in his case I probably wouldn't as there are simpler alternatives and tbh his missus sounds like a complete grabber.
Parents should think about their future and have some ideas in mind regarding lonliness in their old age, rather than expecting their children to be their sole source of engagement. Yes family is important, but so are friends, hobbies, and other interests.
No one said the mother expected this. It's what the daughter wants. The MIL'S desires weren't discussed in the post.
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To all of the people saying that loneliness is not a good reason for the MIL to need to move, wow. Loneliness is a health problem in itself that deserves to be treated.
Yeah, but Grandma might have a very healthy social life right where she is. By now, she might even be tentatively starting to date again. Why would she want to leave that to hole up in a basement or a room?
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The one piece of the puzzle that’s missing is whether MIL even WANTS to move in with them! That would make this whole argument pointless. Did the wife just assume she would, without asking her first? Plus, MIL has health issues, so it would be better for her to move into assisted living, or at least an apartment close to a doctor’s office and all other necessities. Just because Dad’s gone and Mom has health problems doesn’t automatically mean she wants to go from living in her own house to living in the basement or a room in her daughter and SIL’s house. I also don’t see why hubby has to keep giving up this and giving up that. Oh, and don’t add her to the deed.
Given the situation (school age kids and elderly mother at the time of marriage) it sounds like they got married mid life which is a factor. People criticizing him for treating it as "his house"... it was his alone longer than this has been "theirs", not to mention he inherited it from his parents, which likely means it was paid off before the two of them got married. In most places that would make it his, even in places with community property laws. And psychologically, it is his family home. Not just some place he bought a few years before they got married. Of course he is going to consider it his.
It doesn't matter how long he lived there before he got married, if he can't understand the concept that it'll be both their homes he never should've married and moved them in.
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The wife was out of line calling her SO an AH. Verbal abuse doesn't belong in a loving relationship. She seems like a controlling person.
To be honest, I wouldn't allow my MIL to move in with us in the first place and wouldn't expect my wife to accept my mother moving in (with the exception of really desperate circumstances and even then on a temporary basis). Assuming the MIL has a place to live at the moment, my solution would be to either sell or rent her place out and move her closer to where we live. The wife is being totally unreasonable.
This is a VERY important consideration. Eventually (perhaps sooner that they thought) Grandma will have declining health, may need a walker or a wheelchair. Renovating the basement is not the solution.
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No one is an asśhole here. I think it’s all understandable and they just need to talk it out and stop acting like there’s no solution.
NTA, you will need a place to retreat to if MIL is moving in. It sounds like you haven't communicated that to the wife, or she just doesn't care. My mom lives with us d/t her dementia. My husband doesn't have a place to retreat to and I wish he did. It gets very stressful. Besides, the MIL should be somewhere where she can be with people her own age. She could still be lonely living with a busy family.
Since he said he has a house (as opposed to a condo or townhome), they probably have a back yard. So seems like the easiest way around this is to build or buy a back yard living unit. Some are prebuilt and dropped off by truck or crane so you can have it up in a weekend. My wife and I planning on doing that when we can talk her mom into giving up her house. (we've got enough room in the back yard to go for a full in-law unit with bathroom and cooking facilities, but you can do just a simple bedroom for not much money)
make the mother in law rent an apt with her own money,,, you are not obligated to support her... plan B: build a spare bedroom in the garage with a small window a/c,,, she will finally get the message & rent her own apt... and p.s... charge her rent, food costs, & bills..
wow this post is super divided. personally i'm wondering how old the mil is. cause i don't think it's right to put the burden of her failing health in you and your wife. obviously your kids are gonna be annoyed after a while since they'll probably want their own home without their grandma. is she ikr enough to move into a nursing home? or maybe she could move into an apartment nearby with a care taker. that what my grandpa did. after my grandma died, he moved into a very nice apartment five blocks away from our house. he's still in good health but once he gets older, we're gonna get him a caretaker and eventually he'll move into a nursing home. i think it's unfair of her to tell you that you guys need to move the mil in. on the other hand, i completely understand where your wife is coming from. she wants to take care of her mom since her husband died and she's very lonely. i think there's nah, but at the same time, your wife should have called you an asshole.
do you think MIL as an elderly person would want to live in the basement? I cannot imagine my grandma being happy in the basement plus old people tend to have movement problems when they get older. wouldnt stairs be a problem in a few years? Also being a widow doesnt mean you are unable to live in your previous house. If she is still young maybe she will eventually find a new boyfriend. would it be possible if she lived with her daughter? I doubt it. Maybe MIL can live with them temporarily till she gets together but I wouldnt force it for a long term if she is still capable of taking care of herself (like she is still healthy enough)
also i dont think rebuilding part of the basement is a solution. can you imagine the husband playing biliard and drinking with his friends and the MIL trying to sleep on the other side of the wall?
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This dude is not an asshole, immature or selfish what so ever. He offered the mother a room in his house, just not the one the wife wants to give. He sounds like he’s been very giving and accepting. He worked on HIS house for 10 years and wants his own space. She’s more selfish for taking something away from him rather than have her children share a room. Most of you are bitching because she was a single mother.
People who use the fact that they’re single mother to get what they want are the WORST! Not that some of them don’t deserve help or sympathy, but being a single mother doesn’t make you a saint, special or above anyone.
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What happens if the MIL moves in and at some point she can't use the stairs anymore? Basement has stairs, right?
Have the wife even asked if her mother would like to move in?
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I think the real problem is moving the mother in law in. He's already being really accommodating about that. Based upon kids of 8 and 10, wife likely in her 30s, and therefore mother in law most likely in her 50s. Does she really need to move in? I think the problem is the wife, who is just demanding that everything is done her way and not allowing for the fact that this is a huge disruption to the whole family's life.
Did anyone else notice that he called the kids “her kids” instead of “our kids”? I agree that it’s a lot of change for him, and he deserves some space, but it sounds like he isn’t as committed to this marriage—not just to a woman, but to a family—as he should be. He chose to marry her, and should have known full well he was also accepting children and a MIL. Man-cave can be moved to the garage or a backyard shed after some slight reno, maybe a window AC. Others are correct in that he has a right to the space he dedicated time, work, and money into— but he should have known that by entering into a contract of marriage with a woman and her family, that he has to share. That’s literally one of the most basic tenets of marriage.
If everyone had to love and accept their partners children, most single people with children wouldn’t be getting married. He let her and her kids move in, gave them there own rooms. Someone who isn’t invested wouldn’t have married her. All he wants is his own room. Maybe he never wanted kids but loved her enough to marry her. Unless he adopts the children, the kids are her sole responsibility.
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I agreed to my in-laws moving in *briefly* until they could get their own place after emigrating from South Africa (we were in the Netherlands at the time). I suggested giving them our bedroom on the 1st floor because the bathroom was on the same floor ( 2nd toilet on ground floor). We moved to the top floor, which was fine. They made my life hell for the 14 nightmarish months they lived with us. I live alone now, with my cat and I've never been happier.
That's why my husband decided to sell his parents' house and we bought a new place together. Married or not, at the end of the day it would have remained HIS house and not OURS, since it was part of HIS and not MY inheritance. I love my in-laws, and would take them in at any time in an emergency. Everything can be managed for a certain period of time, but in the long run we would only be able to have them live with us if we could spare a self-contained area in which they would feel comfortable. I think the husband is very much right, although the wife's demands are also understandable. Albeit, not well presented.
There's a few unasked/unanswered questions here. Is the MIL pushing her daughter to move in with them, or is this the daughter's way of controlling mom to get a bigger inheritance? Also, and this one is big, imo - if MIL has health issues, how is it going to work for her to be living in a basement apartment? That's just not a good scenario for an elder in poor health. Plus, the kids - are we talking 2 boys, 2 girls, or 1 of each? At the ages they are, if it's 1 boy/1 girl, they definitely need separate rooms. The best solution is to find a senior living community closer to them for the MIL. She'd probably be happier there & might begin to recover from her grief.
Mom needs to make friends within her peer group. Book clubs, senior center lunches, classes for seniors, church ( if that's your thing). It is not up to the kids to entertain her. She will still likely be lonely without friends.
I have the feeling this is less about the man cave and more about how he feels invaded, put upon, and/or used. And that he really doesn't want MIL to actually move in, and this will fully prevent that.
If MIL doesn't want to be alone (and we haven't determined that she even wants to move in with daughter), why can't she rent out a room in HER house. We lived with my Dad & stepmother for a year when we first moved to San Diego. It wasn't bad, but I certainly didn't feel like it was "my" house. The real kicker was my 1/2 sister, her husband and their feral monkey of a daughter (3 y/o) lived there as well. The kid was never disciplined and if I'm being honest, I thought her parents were some of the most lacking & inept I'd seen in a while. But, a month after we found our own place, my Dad was diagnosed with lung cancer and died 4 months later, so having that last year with him was priceless - despite the kid. She's 11 now and pretty cool.
How about no! Sick of these self entitled women and occasionally men that think they’ve hit the Jack pot in situations like this. It’s not her house. Because you owned it when you married her the best she would get is a settlement based on what she had contributed to the property re mortgage, maintenance ect. There is no mortgage so she hasn’t contributed anything to that
I can't believe how many people are equating the wife to an unruly tenant who "lives in his house rent-free." She's not a tenant or a squatter. She's his f*****g wife. And everyone is acting like she's some termites that crawled under the door and infested "his" house. Regardless of your personal opinion on the MIL moving in, how are there so many people here who regard their SPOUSES as unequal lesser-thans who are TENANTS in THEIR house?
Find a place 4 monster in law do not give up man cave, she'll have ur balls in her ourse next, this is ur family home u've been in it longer.
In many cultures, taking in elderly parents is normal, regardless of whether or not they're sick. The kids would benefit from having their grandmother, and the couple in question would have a full-time babysitter or someone to keep an eye on the house when they're not around. As hard as it is to give up the man-cave, it sounds like it's only for him, and not a rec room that the whole family uses, and he is being a selfish ass for resisting.
I understand both sides here, and appreciate how they feel. This is my experience. 20 years ago, my wife's parents invited us to come live with them. They helped us raise our children. They treated me like a son. I loved my in-laws as much as my own parents, and lived with them longer. It hasn't always been easy. But they took care of us, and as they got older, we took care of them. Her father passed away 3 years ago. I will always feel that loss. Her Mom is moving on in years. I'm so grateful for this time we had together. Only an individual can decide what is right for themselves and their family, and whether or not they need space. For me, personally, I'd rather have my mother-in-law than a man cave. When it's time to say good-bye to her, I know I will miss her more than words can say.
Ugh, he's being treated less than her kids here, that's a flag. This relationship moved way to fast especially if this is what damages the marriage, that she wants this and if it doesn't happen you're an ahole? It's your house, not hers. The kids can either share a room, or if there's space in the yard build a small space for her to live but you shouldn't have to give up the room you love and have worked hard on
NTA, but... he should consider that he will be old and need support some day... and does he want his step-children to support him or dismiss him. By supporting the Grandmother he is teaching (by showing) his kids that supporting elderly parents is a good idea... he might need it one day. -- that being said, he is still NTA, even if it is "their" home, the decision should still work out for them, not just her.
Once they all moved in together it became their home, not his. He cannot have that kind of attitude or she and the children are forever guests. Does everyone else have a playroom and only he has to give it up or does he literally have all of the extra space as his own and cannot give up for a small time? I owned my home before I got married and I would never consider telling everyone it was MY house.
The OP needs his man cave. He has two step-children who don't have another father figure, but he has to have a space of his own. Does he hide out there when the children are up, watching TV or doing homework? All good times for him to be present in their lives. π A more practical solution for the short term, at least, might be to make his playroom into the living room. The current living room could be made into the MIL suite for the time being. If she has health issues they would need an elevator or stair transport for her to get to a basement bedroom. They would also need to discuss what MIL would contribute as part of the family. Get it in writing. For the future, also keep track of all her expenses that her daughter and SIL took care of. π Would it be better for her to have help around her own home? Provide a free room there for a health care worker who is employed elsewhere, charging only for utilities in exchange for some assistance as needed.
Part of the problem is the difference between "house" and "home". It is definitely her home as much as his. However "house" is an object with a legal ownership standing. Given that he had it going into the marriage, the "house" is his. So then the question is, which one matters? The people on his side seem to be worried about whose house it is, and those on her side are worried about whose home it is. And if they divorce, she will loose both, which shows how uneven the power balance is.
Who downvoted this? There is literally nothing to object to from either side in this entirely correct observation.
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Ngl tho the basement looks nice. (Yes im well aware i missed the entire point. No need to point it out.)
Do you know where I can find the spreadsheet or other documentation? I'm applying for a comparative statistics course and this would be a great project for my portfolio.
Load More Replies... The wife is way out of line and needs to have a 'come to Jesus meeting' with his divorce lawyer.
If she's smart, she's already had a come to Jesus moment and contacted her own.
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The comment "you didn't just marry the wife, you married her family" - outside of the kids - it ends there. The compromise here is - the kids share a room. MIL gets a room - temporarily. The MIL gets to use the 'man cave' as her space too except say - Friday and Saturday. Set a time limit of 6-8 months or so, then move her into her own place nearby, where she goes 2 nights a week, then 3, 4, etc.. until full time. After that everything returns to normal.
Unless Grandma can slam shots, do a yard of beer and is of a decent standard at both poker and pool then I would say let's get her a place close by, then you can train her up on the first four terms. If she can't handle all nighters she'll be dead before you know it.
NTA, seems you're the only person who has had to make major changes in the marriage so far anyway.
Perhaps a self contained grannex is the answer, but expensive. Seeing as he’s handy, perhaps the compromise could be that he builds the annex himself. Or failing that, perhaps the mother in law could pay for a granny flat to be added. Lots of possibilities, but your wife’s mother is a very important part of the family so while the building is done make small adjustments to the man cave to house her temporarily.
Grandma needs to see a therapist if she is having trouble with grief, not impose on her family
I am fundamentally against "man caves" unless they are more for the whole family to enjoy. I would love the hell out of a good man cave in my own home, but with the understanding that me and my ovaries would be using it. All of that being said, it is a lot to have someone else live with you and it is a huge sacrifice on the part of the husband. The wife shouldn't be pushing for him to lose that space which will just create a ton of added hostility. Sounds like she wants her mother around, but also tucked away. A good compromise is just to help the mother move closer, not in with them.
A few women I know have sewing/hobby rooms.... only the same thing, so why are man caves fundamentally wrong?
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One question...would you do it for your mother? How you answer that is your answer to your question. So are you a jerk or not in your opinion? Really, In my opinion, you are a jerk.
"Happy Wife, happy life" so I think you can work it out for yourself.
It shouldn't be hard to find a man who'd like an instant family of three generations in his home. :)
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NTA! But that won't work, @Otter! He spent a big amount of time creating that man cave. Plus, it is the man's house because he inherited it from his parents after they past away. For him, it's like building a block tower just for it to get destroyed by someone else. The man did have a point when he said that he was gonna lose something when the rest of the family got something. If his wife gave up half, she would get something in return, which is her mom. Since I don't think he was being selfish, I honestly suggest the man should keep his man cave, and the kids should share a room.
Load More Replies... The most important question here is "What does the mother in law want?" I've read what he and his wife want and don't want, but nothing about how the MIL feels about moving in with her daughter. I can think of millions of reasons why the MIL wouldn't want to live under one roof with her daughter and her family. This whole drama could turn out to be totally unnecessary in the end.
That's an important consideration. My folks finally came to an agreement about converting my dad's garage into an apartment for her after who knows how many rounds of arguments only for grandma to tell them "heck no, I've got my own house!".
Load More Replies... One way to win the wife over about finding a closer place for your MIL is that, if G-ma has her own place, there is a place for the kids to go after school and the kids spending time at G-mas gives you the opportunity to have some alone time with your wife..everyone wins. To the person who suggested that he move his Man Cave to the Garage, you could just as easily convert the garage to a MIL suite. Then, after G-ma passes, make it a She Shed for the wife. Also, has anyone asked the MIL what she wants. She may not want to be around the grandkids 24/7. Maybe a senior community where she will be looked after AND be around people her own age for company. Just make it somewhere near where you live so your wife can visit her mother.
Agreed. Why not just find another Solution? Also basically it is his House and he gets to decide what happens to his belongings. He's already very generous in my opinion. Also is there a way to separate one of the rooms into two smaller rooms? The Kids can have smaller rooms and it'll still be their own rooms. Also once they get older (seeing that one is already 10) they will also benefit from his Man Cave. I'm sure it'll be a perfect party room for them and their friends once they are 14?
Load More Replies... The title used to be "Am I the asshole for not giving up my man cave for my mother-in-law with health issues?" & I was immediately ready to say "Yes, family comes first, especially in times of need!" But after reading the article, there's no "need" at all. The wife doesn't want to move MIL in to take care of her failing health, she wants to take over because MIL is lonely when there are so many better options to fix the problem that don't end in destroying someone's hard-earned luxury. I also feel like, thanks to stereotypes about men disappearing into their man caves to leave their wives with all the work of child-rearing & chores, more people will be quick to blame him without hearing the full story. They'll assume he's really selfish when in reality he's been very generous with his family, but has a boundary about his personal area. I wonder if there would be less immediate bias if he had a craft room instead. Ignore me, this is just my two cents on the title! NTA!
Do you love the baement enough to divorce your wife over it? Make a choice.
Yes. That's the whole point of the question. The wife is demanding complete ownership of HIS house. It's not even her house.
Load More Replies... Why are they obsessed with her being in the household? Build an addition, or a "guesthouse", convert a garage, find a place nearby, but if her health is failing? Unless you are willing to become her full-time caretaker, *no*. Just *no*. the results can devastate finances, families, personal health, and oh, yeah, you get people kililng the resident in-law just to be done with the stress. The wife is grieving, this is her process, but it's better to get counseling than go through *this* mess.
And I wonder how the wife is going to handle it when her mommy's health declines to the point of needing to be spoon fed like a baby, and having her diapers changed? I've worked in nursing homes as a CNA, and it ain't pretty! Cleaning a catheter bag, clearing a bowel impaction - not for the weak, lol
Load More Replies... I was in a similar situation although with WAY less investment in a personal space. Long and short my wife and her brother decided the MIL would split her year with us [she ends up with us easily 8months of the year] without my input. I have resented it almost every moment. We DID build an attachment to our house which made it better than when her bedroom was across the hall from our door. No one would even consider the suggestion she get a place nearby [she's independently wealthy at this point and physically independent as well although she lets her children take care of her every need because why should she learn to do anything in her early 70's]. I unhappily tolerate it BUT if my spouse passes on before me and MIL, she is out.
That's a huge stress on a marriage to have someone treat your home like a free B&B. I have no issues with emergency situations. This is just exploitation. Either your MIL manipulated her children into thinking it's an obligation or she's twisted their arms by implying that she'll cut them out the will otherwise (if inheritance is a factor, there's no guarantee there - people can blow money or change wills on a whim).
Load More Replies... I kinda get the situation.. for the last 7 years I've lived alone and my spare room is my man cave/gaming room. Sadly my g/f's mum recently passed away and her siblings are insisting her mum's house is sold. It's been my g/f's home since forever, but the other two siblings don't really see it as a home because they both have famiies and their own place so they just see it as their inheritance and want it asap. I'm happy to have my girlfriend move in with me, and she practically has anyway since her mum passed away as I don't want her spending time alone in that house full of memories of her mum so she's stayed here every night anyway. My place is small... in fact my man cave is only about 12ft by 7ft - but I'll shift t hings around so it's turned into an us-cave rather than a me-cave - Life is full of compromises, and in my case I'm happy to...however in his case I probably wouldn't as there are simpler alternatives and tbh his missus sounds like a complete grabber.
Parents should think about their future and have some ideas in mind regarding lonliness in their old age, rather than expecting their children to be their sole source of engagement. Yes family is important, but so are friends, hobbies, and other interests.
No one said the mother expected this. It's what the daughter wants. The MIL'S desires weren't discussed in the post.
Load More Replies... To all of the people saying that loneliness is not a good reason for the MIL to need to move, wow. Loneliness is a health problem in itself that deserves to be treated.
Yeah, but Grandma might have a very healthy social life right where she is. By now, she might even be tentatively starting to date again. Why would she want to leave that to hole up in a basement or a room?
Load More Replies... The one piece of the puzzle that’s missing is whether MIL even WANTS to move in with them! That would make this whole argument pointless. Did the wife just assume she would, without asking her first? Plus, MIL has health issues, so it would be better for her to move into assisted living, or at least an apartment close to a doctor’s office and all other necessities. Just because Dad’s gone and Mom has health problems doesn’t automatically mean she wants to go from living in her own house to living in the basement or a room in her daughter and SIL’s house. I also don’t see why hubby has to keep giving up this and giving up that. Oh, and don’t add her to the deed.
Given the situation (school age kids and elderly mother at the time of marriage) it sounds like they got married mid life which is a factor. People criticizing him for treating it as "his house"... it was his alone longer than this has been "theirs", not to mention he inherited it from his parents, which likely means it was paid off before the two of them got married. In most places that would make it his, even in places with community property laws. And psychologically, it is his family home. Not just some place he bought a few years before they got married. Of course he is going to consider it his.
It doesn't matter how long he lived there before he got married, if he can't understand the concept that it'll be both their homes he never should've married and moved them in.
Load More Replies... The wife was out of line calling her SO an AH. Verbal abuse doesn't belong in a loving relationship. She seems like a controlling person.
To be honest, I wouldn't allow my MIL to move in with us in the first place and wouldn't expect my wife to accept my mother moving in (with the exception of really desperate circumstances and even then on a temporary basis). Assuming the MIL has a place to live at the moment, my solution would be to either sell or rent her place out and move her closer to where we live. The wife is being totally unreasonable.
This is a VERY important consideration. Eventually (perhaps sooner that they thought) Grandma will have declining health, may need a walker or a wheelchair. Renovating the basement is not the solution.
Load More Replies... No one is an asśhole here. I think it’s all understandable and they just need to talk it out and stop acting like there’s no solution.
NTA, you will need a place to retreat to if MIL is moving in. It sounds like you haven't communicated that to the wife, or she just doesn't care. My mom lives with us d/t her dementia. My husband doesn't have a place to retreat to and I wish he did. It gets very stressful. Besides, the MIL should be somewhere where she can be with people her own age. She could still be lonely living with a busy family.
Since he said he has a house (as opposed to a condo or townhome), they probably have a back yard. So seems like the easiest way around this is to build or buy a back yard living unit. Some are prebuilt and dropped off by truck or crane so you can have it up in a weekend. My wife and I planning on doing that when we can talk her mom into giving up her house. (we've got enough room in the back yard to go for a full in-law unit with bathroom and cooking facilities, but you can do just a simple bedroom for not much money)
make the mother in law rent an apt with her own money,,, you are not obligated to support her... plan B: build a spare bedroom in the garage with a small window a/c,,, she will finally get the message & rent her own apt... and p.s... charge her rent, food costs, & bills..
wow this post is super divided. personally i'm wondering how old the mil is. cause i don't think it's right to put the burden of her failing health in you and your wife. obviously your kids are gonna be annoyed after a while since they'll probably want their own home without their grandma. is she ikr enough to move into a nursing home? or maybe she could move into an apartment nearby with a care taker. that what my grandpa did. after my grandma died, he moved into a very nice apartment five blocks away from our house. he's still in good health but once he gets older, we're gonna get him a caretaker and eventually he'll move into a nursing home. i think it's unfair of her to tell you that you guys need to move the mil in. on the other hand, i completely understand where your wife is coming from. she wants to take care of her mom since her husband died and she's very lonely. i think there's nah, but at the same time, your wife should have called you an asshole.
do you think MIL as an elderly person would want to live in the basement? I cannot imagine my grandma being happy in the basement plus old people tend to have movement problems when they get older. wouldnt stairs be a problem in a few years? Also being a widow doesnt mean you are unable to live in your previous house. If she is still young maybe she will eventually find a new boyfriend. would it be possible if she lived with her daughter? I doubt it. Maybe MIL can live with them temporarily till she gets together but I wouldnt force it for a long term if she is still capable of taking care of herself (like she is still healthy enough)
also i dont think rebuilding part of the basement is a solution. can you imagine the husband playing biliard and drinking with his friends and the MIL trying to sleep on the other side of the wall?
Load More Replies... This dude is not an asshole, immature or selfish what so ever. He offered the mother a room in his house, just not the one the wife wants to give. He sounds like he’s been very giving and accepting. He worked on HIS house for 10 years and wants his own space. She’s more selfish for taking something away from him rather than have her children share a room. Most of you are bitching because she was a single mother.
People who use the fact that they’re single mother to get what they want are the WORST! Not that some of them don’t deserve help or sympathy, but being a single mother doesn’t make you a saint, special or above anyone.
Load More Replies... What happens if the MIL moves in and at some point she can't use the stairs anymore? Basement has stairs, right?
Have the wife even asked if her mother would like to move in?
Load More Replies... I think the real problem is moving the mother in law in. He's already being really accommodating about that. Based upon kids of 8 and 10, wife likely in her 30s, and therefore mother in law most likely in her 50s. Does she really need to move in? I think the problem is the wife, who is just demanding that everything is done her way and not allowing for the fact that this is a huge disruption to the whole family's life.
Did anyone else notice that he called the kids “her kids” instead of “our kids”? I agree that it’s a lot of change for him, and he deserves some space, but it sounds like he isn’t as committed to this marriage—not just to a woman, but to a family—as he should be. He chose to marry her, and should have known full well he was also accepting children and a MIL. Man-cave can be moved to the garage or a backyard shed after some slight reno, maybe a window AC. Others are correct in that he has a right to the space he dedicated time, work, and money into— but he should have known that by entering into a contract of marriage with a woman and her family, that he has to share. That’s literally one of the most basic tenets of marriage.
If everyone had to love and accept their partners children, most single people with children wouldn’t be getting married. He let her and her kids move in, gave them there own rooms. Someone who isn’t invested wouldn’t have married her. All he wants is his own room. Maybe he never wanted kids but loved her enough to marry her. Unless he adopts the children, the kids are her sole responsibility.
Load More Replies... I agreed to my in-laws moving in *briefly* until they could get their own place after emigrating from South Africa (we were in the Netherlands at the time). I suggested giving them our bedroom on the 1st floor because the bathroom was on the same floor ( 2nd toilet on ground floor). We moved to the top floor, which was fine. They made my life hell for the 14 nightmarish months they lived with us. I live alone now, with my cat and I've never been happier.
That's why my husband decided to sell his parents' house and we bought a new place together. Married or not, at the end of the day it would have remained HIS house and not OURS, since it was part of HIS and not MY inheritance. I love my in-laws, and would take them in at any time in an emergency. Everything can be managed for a certain period of time, but in the long run we would only be able to have them live with us if we could spare a self-contained area in which they would feel comfortable. I think the husband is very much right, although the wife's demands are also understandable. Albeit, not well presented.
There's a few unasked/unanswered questions here. Is the MIL pushing her daughter to move in with them, or is this the daughter's way of controlling mom to get a bigger inheritance? Also, and this one is big, imo - if MIL has health issues, how is it going to work for her to be living in a basement apartment? That's just not a good scenario for an elder in poor health. Plus, the kids - are we talking 2 boys, 2 girls, or 1 of each? At the ages they are, if it's 1 boy/1 girl, they definitely need separate rooms. The best solution is to find a senior living community closer to them for the MIL. She'd probably be happier there & might begin to recover from her grief.
Mom needs to make friends within her peer group. Book clubs, senior center lunches, classes for seniors, church ( if that's your thing). It is not up to the kids to entertain her. She will still likely be lonely without friends.
I have the feeling this is less about the man cave and more about how he feels invaded, put upon, and/or used. And that he really doesn't want MIL to actually move in, and this will fully prevent that.
If MIL doesn't want to be alone (and we haven't determined that she even wants to move in with daughter), why can't she rent out a room in HER house. We lived with my Dad & stepmother for a year when we first moved to San Diego. It wasn't bad, but I certainly didn't feel like it was "my" house. The real kicker was my 1/2 sister, her husband and their feral monkey of a daughter (3 y/o) lived there as well. The kid was never disciplined and if I'm being honest, I thought her parents were some of the most lacking & inept I'd seen in a while. But, a month after we found our own place, my Dad was diagnosed with lung cancer and died 4 months later, so having that last year with him was priceless - despite the kid. She's 11 now and pretty cool.
How about no! Sick of these self entitled women and occasionally men that think they’ve hit the Jack pot in situations like this. It’s not her house. Because you owned it when you married her the best she would get is a settlement based on what she had contributed to the property re mortgage, maintenance ect. There is no mortgage so she hasn’t contributed anything to that
I can't believe how many people are equating the wife to an unruly tenant who "lives in his house rent-free." She's not a tenant or a squatter. She's his f*****g wife. And everyone is acting like she's some termites that crawled under the door and infested "his" house. Regardless of your personal opinion on the MIL moving in, how are there so many people here who regard their SPOUSES as unequal lesser-thans who are TENANTS in THEIR house?
Find a place 4 monster in law do not give up man cave, she'll have ur balls in her ourse next, this is ur family home u've been in it longer.
In many cultures, taking in elderly parents is normal, regardless of whether or not they're sick. The kids would benefit from having their grandmother, and the couple in question would have a full-time babysitter or someone to keep an eye on the house when they're not around. As hard as it is to give up the man-cave, it sounds like it's only for him, and not a rec room that the whole family uses, and he is being a selfish ass for resisting.
I understand both sides here, and appreciate how they feel. This is my experience. 20 years ago, my wife's parents invited us to come live with them. They helped us raise our children. They treated me like a son. I loved my in-laws as much as my own parents, and lived with them longer. It hasn't always been easy. But they took care of us, and as they got older, we took care of them. Her father passed away 3 years ago. I will always feel that loss. Her Mom is moving on in years. I'm so grateful for this time we had together. Only an individual can decide what is right for themselves and their family, and whether or not they need space. For me, personally, I'd rather have my mother-in-law than a man cave. When it's time to say good-bye to her, I know I will miss her more than words can say.
Ugh, he's being treated less than her kids here, that's a flag. This relationship moved way to fast especially if this is what damages the marriage, that she wants this and if it doesn't happen you're an ahole? It's your house, not hers. The kids can either share a room, or if there's space in the yard build a small space for her to live but you shouldn't have to give up the room you love and have worked hard on
NTA, but... he should consider that he will be old and need support some day... and does he want his step-children to support him or dismiss him. By supporting the Grandmother he is teaching (by showing) his kids that supporting elderly parents is a good idea... he might need it one day. -- that being said, he is still NTA, even if it is "their" home, the decision should still work out for them, not just her.
Once they all moved in together it became their home, not his. He cannot have that kind of attitude or she and the children are forever guests. Does everyone else have a playroom and only he has to give it up or does he literally have all of the extra space as his own and cannot give up for a small time? I owned my home before I got married and I would never consider telling everyone it was MY house.
The OP needs his man cave. He has two step-children who don't have another father figure, but he has to have a space of his own. Does he hide out there when the children are up, watching TV or doing homework? All good times for him to be present in their lives. π A more practical solution for the short term, at least, might be to make his playroom into the living room. The current living room could be made into the MIL suite for the time being. If she has health issues they would need an elevator or stair transport for her to get to a basement bedroom. They would also need to discuss what MIL would contribute as part of the family. Get it in writing. For the future, also keep track of all her expenses that her daughter and SIL took care of. π Would it be better for her to have help around her own home? Provide a free room there for a health care worker who is employed elsewhere, charging only for utilities in exchange for some assistance as needed.
Part of the problem is the difference between "house" and "home". It is definitely her home as much as his. However "house" is an object with a legal ownership standing. Given that he had it going into the marriage, the "house" is his. So then the question is, which one matters? The people on his side seem to be worried about whose house it is, and those on her side are worried about whose home it is. And if they divorce, she will loose both, which shows how uneven the power balance is.
Who downvoted this? There is literally nothing to object to from either side in this entirely correct observation.
Load More Replies... Ngl tho the basement looks nice. (Yes im well aware i missed the entire point. No need to point it out.)
Do you know where I can find the spreadsheet or other documentation? I'm applying for a comparative statistics course and this would be a great project for my portfolio.
Load More Replies... The wife is way out of line and needs to have a 'come to Jesus meeting' with his divorce lawyer.
If she's smart, she's already had a come to Jesus moment and contacted her own.
Load More Replies... The comment "you didn't just marry the wife, you married her family" - outside of the kids - it ends there. The compromise here is - the kids share a room. MIL gets a room - temporarily. The MIL gets to use the 'man cave' as her space too except say - Friday and Saturday. Set a time limit of 6-8 months or so, then move her into her own place nearby, where she goes 2 nights a week, then 3, 4, etc.. until full time. After that everything returns to normal.
Unless Grandma can slam shots, do a yard of beer and is of a decent standard at both poker and pool then I would say let's get her a place close by, then you can train her up on the first four terms. If she can't handle all nighters she'll be dead before you know it.
NTA, seems you're the only person who has had to make major changes in the marriage so far anyway.
Perhaps a self contained grannex is the answer, but expensive. Seeing as he’s handy, perhaps the compromise could be that he builds the annex himself. Or failing that, perhaps the mother in law could pay for a granny flat to be added. Lots of possibilities, but your wife’s mother is a very important part of the family so while the building is done make small adjustments to the man cave to house her temporarily.
Grandma needs to see a therapist if she is having trouble with grief, not impose on her family
I am fundamentally against "man caves" unless they are more for the whole family to enjoy. I would love the hell out of a good man cave in my own home, but with the understanding that me and my ovaries would be using it. All of that being said, it is a lot to have someone else live with you and it is a huge sacrifice on the part of the husband. The wife shouldn't be pushing for him to lose that space which will just create a ton of added hostility. Sounds like she wants her mother around, but also tucked away. A good compromise is just to help the mother move closer, not in with them.
A few women I know have sewing/hobby rooms.... only the same thing, so why are man caves fundamentally wrong?
Load More Replies... One question...would you do it for your mother? How you answer that is your answer to your question. So are you a jerk or not in your opinion? Really, In my opinion, you are a jerk.
"Happy Wife, happy life" so I think you can work it out for yourself.
It shouldn't be hard to find a man who'd like an instant family of three generations in his home. :)
Load More Replies... NTA! But that won't work, @Otter! He spent a big amount of time creating that man cave. Plus, it is the man's house because he inherited it from his parents after they past away. For him, it's like building a block tower just for it to get destroyed by someone else. The man did have a point when he said that he was gonna lose something when the rest of the family got something. If his wife gave up half, she would get something in return, which is her mom. Since I don't think he was being selfish, I honestly suggest the man should keep his man cave, and the kids should share a room.
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