Philosophers and writers have long debated the roles people have played in influencing the progress of civilization. While Thomas Carlyle, for example, felt that great figures are key to guiding us forward, Leo Tolstoy, on the other hand, was of the belief that no individual can single-handedly steer the course of humanity, no matter what position they held.

Regardless of what the case might be, there are two kinds of people: those who are forgotten and those who live on in our collective memory. In an attempt to figure out if some of the latter are getting undeserved praise, Reddit user TGYHJDFGH made a post on the platform, asking everyone: "What beloved person in history should be hated?" and it was immediately flooded with answers.

But before you scroll down to check them out, I want to make things a little bit more interesting and/or complicated for you. Tell me, can we judge someone's morals after hundreds of years, when the entire cultural landscape has changed course? And where do we draw the line between what we can and cannot accept about someone's personal life if their work has transcended time and allowed countless people to find meaning?

I know, these are pretty tough questions. But humans are walking contradictions and it would be irresponsible to instantly dismiss the legacy of, say, the Founding Fathers or Mother Teresa.

#1

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Christopher columbus...didnt discover s**t and brought misery wherever he went.

sticksnXnbones , wiki Report

Aran Lindvail
Community Member
3 months ago

This needs to be higher. Columbus was THE WORST. Slavery, murder, torture, you name it.

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#2

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Mother Theresa. My father was a taxi driver in Australia and one of his customers was a man who'd been raised in Mother Theresa's orphanage. He said she beat him terribly.

Another user also added: She was obsessed with preventing wartime sexual abuse victims from getting abortions.

Her order sold babies.

She buddied up to dictators and accepted stolen cash from them.

Collected millions in donations and never spent them on her "houses of the poor" which were vermin infested crapholes where people went to die.

Refused pain medication for the dying and ill because she believed suffering = being close to god.

Had nothing but top of the line medical care for herself.

20thCenturyCobweb Report

Lucifer
Community Member
3 months ago

Teresa was a horrible human being. She believed that only through pain you can reach Christ, so let the people suffer in her care. And it was backed by the Catholic Church so that she can convert as many people as possible to Christianity. And the Western world backed her with billions in donations. (Read 'Missionary Position' By Christopher Hitchens)

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#3

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Thomas Edison. I’ll never forgive him for what he did to Tesla.

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Nunya Business
Community Member
3 months ago

He electrocuted an elephant to death to prove his point about AC/DC electricity and I will forever detest him for that.

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#4

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Ronald Reagan - moved somewhere between 50-80 TRILLION from middle class to upper 1%. Ruined America!

Robby777777 , wiki Report

Lucifer
Community Member
3 months ago

Reagan is the reason why America is in such a mess right now. He was the original cult leader, before Trump took over the GOP.

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#5

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Coco Chanel was a goddamn Nazi spy. Yes, she was an incredible designer, and she's probably one of the most influential humans of the 20th century, based on the number of people who have worn clothing directly inspired by her over the past 100 years. She really did change the way women dress in a truly radical way, and I respect that - knitwear, feminized menswear, ditching the corset, transforming black into an everyday color, the essential skirt suit, costume jewelry, synthetic fragrances in perfume, the list goes on.

But she was a goddamn Nazi spy. Coco was a wretched anti-Semite, like so many other members of the European elite during the 30s. She dated a number of staggeringly wealthy British aristocrats and they'd all sit around talking about the Protocols of Zion and s**t, trying to figure out whether any members of the royal family were secretly Jews, etc. When war broke out, the two Jewish brothers who ran her perfume empire (aka Chanel No 5, the best selling perfume in the world then and now) had to flee to the US for safety. How did Coco respond? By writing to the Nazis to ask them to transfer ownership over to her, a good Aryan, so she could make more money. But that's not the half of it.

She fell in love with a dashing German spy named "Spitz" who'd been seducing bluebloods all over France and England for years leading up the war. Coco was a useful woman - she was simply one of the richest women in the world, and she knew everyone in the British aristocracy, including her old hunting buddy and dear friend, Winston Churchill himself. She and Spitz socialized with all the biggest Nazi names in town, especially Otto Abetz, the Nazi ambassador to France, who invited them to every party in town. Spitz convinced her to join the Abwehr (aka the German secret service) and make trips to Spain. Operating under the code name "Westminster", she attempted to broker a "separate peace" between Germany and England. (In the meantime, she may or may not have reported at least one woman at the Hotel Ritz whom she suspected of being Jewish to the SS.) She had a grand old time going on her adventures, and wrote about the excitement of working for the Abwehr in her private notes.

Chanel was arrested only a few days after the liberation of Paris - absolutely everyone in town knew what she'd been doing and who she'd been doing it with - but for rEaSoNs UnKnOwN she was released without charges. It's widely believed that Winston Churchill personally intervened. It might be because the two of them had been close friends for decades. It might be because she was going to embarrass the s**t out of Britain by outing all the anti-Semites and pro-Nazis in the British aristocracy - including the recently abdicated Edward VIII who used his f***ng honeymoon as an excuse to tour Nazi Germany and shake Hitler's hand. She spent the rest of her life being a nasty, bitter morphine addict living in the Hotel Ritz. The House of Chanel has very, very little to say about the matter, and every few years a few more bits of damning evidence are declassified from the vaults.

If you want to learn more, I did a whole episode about her Nazi days in my French history podcast: "The Collaborator"

overduebook , wiki Report

Arik
Community Member
3 months ago

Not co-co-ol

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#6

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Pablo Picasso, he was misogynistic and sexually assaulted women

Camby_doodles , wiki Report

karl briggs
Community Member
3 months ago

And children.

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#7

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Gandhi. After learning all the colorist and racist s**t he would say to those who had darker complexion or those of African descent in my 8th grade year i haven’t seen him the same.

unknown , wiki Report

Lucifer
Community Member
3 months ago

Gandhi was racist and also liked younger women.

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#8

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Bill Cosby. America's dad. Up until those allegations started

NealR2000 , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

he had creepy eyes IMO even when I was little, and being little, I'd say "creeper eyes"...

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#9

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Woodrow Wilson.

Guy was majorly racist, segregated the military, kicked black people out of the government, he screened a KKK movie in the White House and was a strong defender of the KKK. Even for his time he was considered racist

starcraft_al , wiki Report

Bee she/her
Community Member
3 months ago

BUT HE KEPT US OUT OF WAR🙄

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#10

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers PT BARNUM.

Most people know but due to the romanticization of The Greatest Showman, people should know that he was a maniac that did an ungodly experiments on living beings, locked people in cages, abused them, and mocked them. All whilst earning pocket from them.

RogueVogueDino Report

Florence
Community Member
3 months ago (edited)

i loved the greatest showman and i knew these things but i didn’t realize how the greatest showman was covering up the true stories of how shitty he was

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#11

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers John Lennon. Treated like s**t during his childhood, whinges about it his whole life, then does the exact same thing to his son Julian.

BigMattress269 , wiki Report

Steve Kenney
Community Member
3 months ago

He also beat his wife Yoko Ono

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#12

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Based on personal experience with Oprah Winfrey at Barnes Municipal Airport on New Years Eve in 1991, I would say it would have to be her. Cosby's private jet brought her and Steadman into the airport under cover of darkness to go to the Cosby estate up North. I watched from the tower and she shoved a lone child out of the way and slammed the door to the limo. All the child wanted was an autograph. Oprah's kindness and compassion was an act. If she didn't get something out of it, she was quite capable of stepping on feelings of a lone child when the cameras were not on her

LeoEmptor , wiki Report

You cant stop the truth
Community Member
3 months ago

most celebs are actors, right?

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#13

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Elvis Presley. He groomed a then 14 year old and slept with her while he toured.

YellowB , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

This. He was a straight-up pedo.

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#14

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers King Edward the VIII was a nazi sympathizer who possibly colluded with the Germans to retake the throne in the event of an invasion and conquest of Britain.

He wasn’t just a love sick romantic who gave up his kingdom for a woman.

mwm1980 , wiki Report

Joy
Community Member
3 months ago

The royal family have more secrets than the Vatican and are just as determined to hold onto the devotion, worship and wealth.

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#15

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Steve Jobs. The way he treated his family is horrible.

iameshwar_raj , wiki Report

Kookamunga
Community Member
3 months ago

The silence for this one is deafening.

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#16

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Alfred Hitchcock, the guy probably was one of the best filmmakers ever, yes. but it's worth mentioning how much he abused his actors, including sexually harassing Tippi Hedren

RingoStarAllies , wiki Report

Joy
Community Member
3 months ago

Indeed. He was a miserable sonofabitch who used his skill to belittle, mock and humiliate actresses.

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#17

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Not quite beloved, but Joseph P. Kennedy Sr..

He decided that Rosemary (his daughter) who was 23 at the time should have a lobotomy; he did not inform his wife of this decision until after the procedure was completed. And then they sent her away to an institute.

In her early young adult years, Rosemary Kennedy experienced seizures and violent mood swings. In response to these issues, her father arranged a prefrontal lobotomy for her in 1941 when she was 23 years of age; the procedure left her permanently incapacitated and rendered her unable to speak intelligibly.

Sick f**k, who would do this to their own child.

renaissancemonse , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

"Who would do this to their own child". In that era? Quite a few people, unfortunately. The lobotomy at that time was peddled as a "cure" ----- they truly didn't know better.

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#18

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers 8000 comments so it might be here Apparently John Wayne needed to be restrained from assaulting a native American actress in the 70s at the academy awards or something. I think her name was Sacheen Little feather. And Clint Eastwood allegedly was mocking her too.

b10h454r8_y , wiki Report

Eric G
Community Member
3 months ago (edited)

John Wayne was definitely racist. Remember the playboy article where he said “I believe in white supremacy,” he said, and spoke harshly about African Americans, saying, “We can’t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks.” “I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people,” he said. This is just the tip of the iceberg. And Clint Eastwood talks to invisible people in chairs.

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#19

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Einstein wasn’t a great guy. Brilliant, sure, but kinda douchy in his personal life.

He refused to marry his long time lover for years, even after she got pregnant. The child was assumed to be given up for adoption, but no record has ever been found.

He and his wife, Mileva Marić, worked together on their research. People saw them do it. They made jokes about it at parties. He proudly told people that she did all his calculations. They only put his name on their work and he went on to claim all the credit - ignoring any work she had done. Part of their agreement was that she would get the Nobel prize money but he tried to prevent that.

She raised two children - one schizophrenic - took care of the house and tutored to bring in extra money because he couldn’t get a job for a long time. He started getting more notoriety and then began an affair with his first cousin.

He moved to a different country to be with his new hillbilly mistress. He divorced his wife and quickly married the new, younger model. He had rules she had to abide by, such as leaving the room immediately when told and not expecting or asking for any sort of affection except when necessary for appearances sake.

Elsa, his second wife, was dying and he worked nonstop because he didn’t know what to do (I guess). She was basically abandoned her last few months.

He cheated on both his wives, numerous times. Ignored his children. Oh - and he was pretty into his second wife’s daughter and thought about marrying her instead.

Miss_Adventures123 , wiki Report

Bee she/her
Community Member
3 months ago

About the missing child, there is a series called The Missing By Marget Peterson Haddix, book fives discusses it

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#20

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Charles Dickens had his wife, the mother of his children, committed to an insane asylum so he could run off with a teenage actress.

Edit- I have been informed that this wasn't successful, he tried to have the mother of his ten children committed but it didn't work. Which is still quite bad

Spacebarman010101 , wiki Report

Tigerpacingthecage
Community Member
3 months ago

People (men, or ok "not all men") still try to label women as crazy or mentally unfit to get what they want.

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#21

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Joseph Smith-

I grew up LDS and left with my family when I was in junior high. After some reading and learning from historical documents without church bias, I realized how drastically different he was when he wasn’t viewed in the eyes of the church.

LocalWitch56 , wiki Report

Tonya Wallace
Community Member
3 months ago

Joseph Smith...Big pimpin' (I saw that on a t-shirt that I regret not buying. 😭)

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#22

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Churchill. He started the Bengal Famine which killed 3 million people. He also was incredibly racist and liked killing through gas.

ComplexNombers , wiki Report

Lucifer
Community Member
3 months ago

Winston Churchill, a hero according to the UK & US. Churchill carried out a genocide in India (4+ million killed through deliberate famine). And Churchill believed that eugenics could solve race deterioration and reduce crime and poverty. US & UK were very much on the side of Hitler, until they realized that he posed a threat to their power on the global stage. That seems to be missing in the narrative of why WW2 started.

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#23

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Andrew Jackson.

He’s always presented as the “common man’s president” but he treated the Native American’s terribly . He also had a huge rowdy party and trashed the White House

Account28784 , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

He's Trump's fave POTUS. Nuff said.

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#24

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Travis Scott, still ain’t over what insane s**t he did

GrouchyInteraction12 , wiki Report

Priscilla Reshell
Community Member
3 months ago

That concert was hell

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See Also on Bored Panda
#25

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Oliver Cromwell

Tried to make England a republic, ended up being a king in all but name. Butchered the Irish, banned Christmas and is partially responsible for the puritans (who fled to America after the monarchy was restarted)

EwanWhoseArmy , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

Oliver Cromwell is/was "beloved"?!

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#26

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Charlie Chaplin definitely. Dude groped/assaulted girls and married a woman 40 years younger than him

cnoelle94 , wiki Report

Nicole Weymann
Community Member
3 months ago

First wife had (falsely) announced a pregnancy at 16, then they married, later divorced. Second wife announced pregnancy at 15, he married her, otherwise might have been prosecuted because she was a minor when she got pregnant. Also divorced. Marriage no. 3 was relatively unspectacular age wise (she was 21). Within and in between marriages multiple affairs. His last wife, Oona, was 18 when they married (he was 54). They stayed together until his death, had eight children. (All according to Wikipedia - not good, but I found no 40 year age gap).

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#27

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Benito Juárez

He was the type of president who kills his opposition instead of negotiating. He did a lot of illegal executions.

He was going to be executed in Guadalajara, however one of his ministers convinced the soldiers not to kill him with a famous phrase "alto, los valientes no asesinan", the soldiers forgave his life and risked theirs as the disobey an order. Well, as soon as Juarez returned to Mexico city, he immediately ordered to kill all of those soldiers with no mercy (source: my sister worked with the Sargent's descendant)

After Juárez's government, there's a period Known as the porfiriato, where Porfirio Díaz was Mexico's president for 30 years. It was possible just because there was no opposition alive

Juarez suddenly died in 1872 from a heart attack. It's believed that a woman, to avenge his husband, worked on his home as a maid, and when she had the opportunity, she put an infusion of "veintiunilla'" a herb known by the natives for being poisonous and cause a heart attack 21 days (veintiún dias) after it was drank

elav92 , wiki Report

Lorraine
Community Member
3 months ago

This. Not to mention he reformed the Mexican state by removing the church influence (which was not wrong) only to enrich himself and his family with all the resources confiscated. Also, he was indigenous but ashamed of it so he was extremely racist. If he hadn't died, he was ready to change the law to stay in power indefinitely.

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#28

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Andy Warhol was a fraud and an abuser.

The book Edie is a great read, but sad.

IdgyThreadgoode Report

Luther von Wolfen
Community Member
3 months ago

Warhol wasn't great as a person, but I've done a little research into him. He was a complex person who suffered in some ways. He did horrible things, but he also served at his church's homeless shelter well into his later years. Derinitely suffered from trauma and possibly depression.

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#29

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Dr Suess cheated on his partially disabled wife and she eventually committed suicide because of how distraught she was.

“I am too old and enmeshed in everything you do and are, that I cannot conceive of life without you,”

brunette5179 , wiki Report

Felipe Pereira de Sousa
Community Member
3 months ago

Also a racist.

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#30

Someone Asked "What Beloved Person In History Should Be Hated?", Here Are 30 Eye-Opening Answers Kinda coming much more into light now but The Founding Fathers, all of them owned slaves and by modern day standards they would be horrible people. But something I think lots of people don’t remember is even if these things are utterly reprehensible, everyone was doing it and they were all children of their time.

madrazych7 , wiki Report

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

What history books didn't mention that fact? I learned that in the 1970s! And we had debates in Ethics class about this stuff....

ShadowMorph
Community Member
3 months ago

and Thomas Jefferson was against slaves but still owned them.

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Tim
Community Member
3 months ago

Factually untrue that all of them owned slaves. A majority did but there absolutely were some (John Adams as an example) who did not and were against slavery both in principle and in practice.

Tom Lippert
Community Member
3 months ago

You are wrong, there were several who didn't off the top of my head John Adams didn't own one. Try reading before posting drivel.

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Robert Peters-Gehrke
Community Member
3 months ago

No, not "everyone was doing it". Some of the Founding Fathers were strict opponents of slavery, for example John Adams so why does the picture show him?

Leo Domitrix
Community Member
3 months ago

B/c they don't know their history. And htey used a cheap online image instead of doing some work.

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Aria Whitaker
Community Member
3 months ago (edited)

"Children of their time". What a crock excuse. You know who else were in their "time"? Abolitionists. An entire movement that disagreed with the institution of slavery, participated in the underground railroad to help free them, and politically supported those who wanted to do away with it. If they, who were born and raised in the SAME time period as the slave drivers, can see and understand the evil nature of owning humans, those slave owners could have as well. ALL could have joined that movement at any time. They chose not to. They liked having slaves and being a master. Stop with that tired excuse.

Tameka Womack-Jean
Community Member
3 months ago

Thank you!!!

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Bill Allen
Community Member
3 months ago

All of them owned slaves? I don’t think John Adam’s owned slaves. There were probably others as well. What the founding fathers were was the top 1% of earners of their time who started a war so they wouldn’t have to pay taxes. Then felt that only rich land owners should have the right to vote.

Hobby Hopper
Community Member
3 months ago

@Sarah Rose, by your logic current day lawmakers are horrible people too, because horrible legislation has been passed under their watch (even if they fought said legislation). Should they not even come to the table? What does that accomplish? We all do the best we can within the systems we're born with, while also trying to change those systems. Or, are you advocating violence every time you feel righteous anger? Terrible people feel righteous anger (from their perspective) every bit as strongly as you do. Who gets to decide when the violence is justified?

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Tonya Wallace
Community Member
3 months ago

I can't believe you said "everyone was doing it" as a justification or exemption.

Sarah Rose
Community Member
3 months ago

Continues to stare in native, yea we have evidence that not everyone was doing it

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Mazer
Community Member
3 months ago

John Adams never owned slaves, nor did his son

Dennis Kender
Community Member
3 months ago

Historical figures are to be judge by the times in which THEY lived, not by the current times in which WE live.

Noah
Community Member
3 months ago

Yes!

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nooneimportant
Community Member
3 months ago

Of the 1st 5 presidents John Adams was the only one with one term, the only not from Virginia, and the only one without slaves (his farm was ran by mostly Abigail and also himself when not in Philadelphia or Boston)

Tameka Womack-Jean
Community Member
3 months ago

What a crock. You know who else were children of their time who weren't doing it"? Abolishionists! Even by the pasts standards slavery was utterly reprehensible. Try again!

Curry on...
Community Member
3 months ago

"Everyone was doing it," isn't that what teenagers whose frontal cortex isn't fully developed, say? The wrongs and evils that have been committed because everyone was doing it are too many to count.

Hobby Hopper
Community Member
3 months ago

This comment has been deleted.

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Encyclopedia Purple
Community Member
3 months ago

I'm raising money to carve butts into the back of Mount Rushmore

Carole Reid
Community Member
3 months ago

Trump could finally make it (hole wise, I mean)?

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Brian Michael
Community Member
3 months ago

I was in high school 2000-2004 and we went over slavery, trail of tears, land grabbing from natives, plague blankets, and a bevy of topics

Carol Emory
Community Member
3 months ago

@Brian. You should look into the stories of Spanish Settlers that were living in what is now New Mexico and Texas. The horrible stories of how their land was stolen from them as well.

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Carol Emory
Community Member
3 months ago

Also should note that many of them slept with the slave women they owned. Jefferson had a few kids with his slaves...but at least he gave them all their freedom on his death.

Sarah Rose
Community Member
3 months ago

they didn't sleep with the women they owned, they raped them. Not trying to tear you down Carol, just wanted to highlight the distinction

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Da Milla
Community Member
3 months ago

Lotsa white dudes on this list

Thomson StClair
Community Member
3 months ago

John Adams was not a slave owner, nor was his son. They were anti-slavery. So no, not "all" Founding Fathers owned people.

PandaRave
Community Member
3 months ago

THANK YOU! Modern standards people! This isn’t the 20th century when things were getting better, this was back when this was too normal. Way too normal. But what are we gonna do about it?

Nicole Weymann
Community Member
3 months ago

It was a double standard even then. Europe/colonists made a lot of money with slave trade and slave labour, while outlawing it at home.

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Randy Klefbeck
Community Member
3 months ago

North and South Carolina got support to force the vote to become independent states apart from English rule (the Declaration of Independence) by unanimous vote only. They did this in order to keep the rule of slavery intact. Those two states forced the point, even though virtually all others were either opposed to slavery, or ambivalent. Washington tried to (through his will upon his death) free his slaves. His wife Martha however, nullified that due to the/her belief that they were "property" that belonged to her. People at times could free black persons but those persons could be kidnapped and subject to be sold and removed to the south where no one would contest their indentured service. Jefferson was clearly conflicted about the issue.

shodokai
Community Member
3 months ago

We hold these truths to be self evident. That all men are created equal. (written by men who owned people as property) {and all created equal... except Women, Jews, Black or Brown skinned people or people who don't own property.}

Vernon Purvis
Community Member
3 months ago

No, those founding fathers in colonies / states that did not allow for slavery did not own slaves. Such as John Adams, Ben Franklin and Gouverneur Morris.

ljbeanfield
Community Member
3 months ago

That's why I hate Hamilton (the musical!)

Carole Reid
Community Member
3 months ago

There are lots of reasons to hate " Hamilton" (the crappy musical!)

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Jessica Fisch
Community Member
3 months ago

They bedded those slaves

Desiree Neil
Community Member
3 months ago

John Adams did not own enslaved people

T Matteson
Community Member
3 months ago

Not Hamilton

kim morris
Community Member
3 months ago

"All" of them did not own slaves. Governor Morris of NY did not own slaves. John Adams of Mass did not own slaves. Surprisingly, Ben Franklin did.

Janice Bontrager
Community Member
3 months ago

There was 74 yrs between Washington and end of slavery. Thats a long time to progress to the thinking that slavery is wrong and needs to be ended.

Carole Reid
Community Member
3 months ago

Well....

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Asher Tye
Community Member
3 months ago

There's something to be said there.

Marnie
Community Member
1 month ago

Utterly untrue that "everyone was doing it".

GPZ
Community Member
3 months ago

Also the whole Boston Tea Party affair- what the British were doing would actually have lowered tea prices (not raised them). Currently held that certain members were involved in the smuggling of tea and the reduced prices would've undercut their smuggling operations

Karen Lyon
Community Member
3 months ago

That they were people of their time is often important to remember. Most of us are really complicated, and often hold ignorant beliefs until we get older and smarter.

GramDB
Community Member
3 months ago

Sadly … just like all racists + John Wayne.

Pamela Keown
Community Member
3 months ago

Society of 2022 cannot apply to 1776

natalie cohen
Community Member
3 months ago

Who said anything about history books ? An interesting topic, but off track. What OP is trying to say is that these people were each a product of their times. They had been molded and influenced by antiquated attitudes and a drastically different scope of knowledge. That really has to be taken into account before you start judging them. In THEIR time they were giants among men.

survivalrhino
Community Member
3 months ago

Much more complicated than you imagine-- even in the North, slavery was common, as well as indentured servitude, which for all intents and purposes, was slavery. Look, people are a product of their times, and culture-- the fact that many of the founders were aware of their shortcomings, and tried to rectify them, as under the laws and customs of the time. In many areas, slaves could not be freed, by law, with few exceptions. Slavery was common throughout the world-- and is still common in many. Part of the magnificence of the founding documents is how much the learned, yet faulted men tried too build a Nation where Liberty was the guiding principles, as well as such obtuse concepts as fair play-- Were they perfect? Of course not-- that is the human condition--and anybody expecting perfection is on the wrong planet. Fall, stumble, pick yourself up, dust off, and try to do better is the best we can hope far in this mortal plain.

Ryan Parker
Community Member
3 months ago

This is a stupid pick. 250 years from now, the people will say how “horrible” we all are during this time in history, for whatever reason. Things change, times change, societies change. It’s how the world works.

Edwin Quantrall
Community Member
3 months ago

(...A)ll of them owned slaves(...) Um...no. John Adams never owned slaves and was, in fact, opposed to slavery. (He was, however, a bit of an Authoritarian.)

Alan Sanborn
Community Member
3 months ago

Not John Adams.

Mickie Shea
Community Member
3 months ago

Well said and by my think'n true.

Evan Wills
Community Member
3 months ago

This comment has been deleted.

WhatEvenIsLife
Community Member
3 months ago

Y'know, people knew full well back then that slavery was wrong. The Constitution actually received a lot of criticism for talking about "freedom for all" when the U.S. practiced slavery. It's not like anyone back then was blind to the fact that slavery was awful.

bill marsano
Community Member
3 months ago

Not to Leo Domitrix: You're right. It's often the case that when some people learn a surprising fact they immediately assume that it's brand new and no none's ever heard of it before. I learned about the horrors of slavery in school too--and that was 65 years ago.

Roger Nehring
Community Member
3 months ago

The issue for me is that Washington and Jefferson believed slavery was wrong. In spite of that, Washington hunted for an an enslaved woman who had fled and apparently allowed floggings by his overseers. Jefferson repeatedly raped one of the enslaved woman in his control and sired children yet never emancipated her.

JJM
Community Member
3 months ago

So true, it was the norm back then.

Sabine Hahn
Community Member
3 months ago

Interesting - out of 30 horrible people 3 are female, the rest male. Tells you a lot.

Tracy Wallick
Community Member
3 months ago

Not all of them owned slaves; IIRC Thomas Jefferson and John Adams were very anti-slavery but had to concede to the majority when drafting the DoI, Constitution, etc.

Doug the Special one
Community Member
3 months ago

What was right at the time cannot be viewed with modern day ideals.

Gwyn
Community Member
3 months ago

"Everyone was doing it" is no excuse

Marc Lauzon
Community Member
3 months ago

Same about sexism and elitism. They didn't beleive everyone should vote, much less women, but only land owners.

El Dee
Community Member
3 months ago

...but everyone was doing it! Didn't wash with my mother and it doesn't with me either..

Carole Reid
Community Member
3 months ago

Putin?

Andrew Hoppe
Community Member
3 months ago

The wrote the constitution in a specific way to be able to abolish slavery in the future. Smart MFers.

Angela Martel
Community Member
3 months ago

No. Even then, slavery was thought of as bad.

Patrick Meza
Community Member
3 months ago

John Adams owned slaves? i think you are mistaken

Ildi Tóth
Community Member
3 months ago

I wonder sometimes how people insisting to measure a previous era's behaviour with today's social norms will feel when the coming generations (assuming we'll live to raise future generations) judge them, say, on owning mobile phones or having plastic stuff in their house. "What do you mean everyone had them at that time? In fact, there were forward thinking people already living off the grid, using only sustainable materials and renewable energy! That @hole just carried on destroying the planet only to post self-absorbed comments on BP."

Synsepalum
Community Member
3 months ago

John Adams did not own slaves, and Ben Franklin dabbled in the slave trade (obviously disgusting) but found the experience so repugnant that he became a devout abolitionist.

John Russo
Community Member
3 months ago (edited)

So, Mao Tse-tung, Hitler, and Pol Pot don't make the list. How about Putin, Lenin, Stalin, Idi Amin? You can find many who revere them. With a few exceptions, those on this list made significant positive contributions to their fields. Columbus smelled bad? Oh the horror!

laura lee
Community Member
3 months ago (edited)

"But something I think lots of people don’t remember is even if these things are utterly reprehensible, everyone was doing it and they were all children of their time." That's not true, while it may be with the wealthy class as it is now as well, normal people didn't and some states like New Jersey had it written in their constitution that slavery of any kind is illegal. The "founding fathers" were d***s

Rost it
Community Member
3 months ago

They taught this in school when I was there 20+ years ago. What school did OP go to?

Sofia
Community Member
3 months ago

J.K Rowling!! so homophobic!! Screenshot...8d1cdb.png Screenshot-2022-04-28-84148-PM-626b3458d1cdb.png

Kantami Blossom
Community Member
3 months ago

They get praised for breaking way from the English Monarchy when they only did it to save money and after the new government was set up with them in charge they milked it for every penny they could get, they also very quickly forgot how the Native Americans helped them win the war and basically wiped them out.

George Gameston
Community Member
3 months ago

Yes but you never judge historical figures by todays moral standards, you judge based upon the standards of the day. And that by that measure, they were exceptional people ( if you disregard the fact that, according to the english, they were backstabbing traitorous vermin! )

Potterhead 0-0
Community Member
3 months ago

A lot of them were against slavery and if they had slaves they were treated well and/ or payed

Aria Whitaker
Community Member
3 months ago

If they were against slavery, they would not have had slaves. You dont do things you do not want to do...I hate that animals are killed for their fur. So I dont wear or purchase fur products. If they did not want to participate in slavery, they simply would not have. No excuses.

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James Arvidson
Community Member
3 months ago

As a human, his faults do not diminish his accomplishments. His, and others sacrifices laid a groundwork for the United States. The country he had a hand in creating, with it's mistakes and faults, has done more for humanity as a whole than any other single entity in history. It is more than most others in the history of human kind can claim.

George washingmashine
Community Member
3 months ago

I will say….. HAMILTON DIDNT! But he also cheated on his wife. But that pales in comparison to Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings.

Concept-Peter Roosdorp
Community Member
3 months ago

But according to the standards of their time. It was not the same issue. (until it was. :D )

Tonya Wallace
Community Member
3 months ago

I came back to this to tell you that I downvoted the hell out of your post.

ljbeanfield
Community Member
3 months ago

Why? It's true and it's literally common knowledge

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Jon Borrmann
Community Member
3 months ago

This is silly, this is WHAT ran the country. It wasnt all hippies and cancel culture. It was a hard life. S**t happens.

Jamie Greco
Community Member
3 months ago

I don’t think people from other eras should be held to today’s moral standard.

Hobby Hopper
Community Member
3 months ago

Agreed, but the other side of the coin is we shouldn't ignore the problems their legacy left us.

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Alvin Rendell
Community Member
3 months ago

Yes, context of the period is important, even if we are made sad by the revelations.

iseefractalz
Community Member
3 months ago

Yes, they were children of their time. The standards and morals of modern society have no baring on the realities of life that modern humans couldn't even comprehend the trials of. Nothing new is "coming to light" it was all common knowledge for....ever. The only thing that's changed is people ignoring the realities of society in that era in an effort to paint a more provocative narrative that justifies the often radical idiocies being thrown around today.

Healing Moon Breezes
Community Member
3 months ago

owning slaves during a time when slavery was acceptable is kind of ignorant.

CMDR unematti
Community Member
3 months ago

Honestly it's quite DUH that they had slaves, anyone with money would in those days, best situation would be if the master is nice to them. And look at politicians today, same horrible people a lot of times.

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