Worker Refuses To Donate Vacation Days To A Colleague With A Sick Daughter, Gets Hate From Entire Office, Wonders If He’s A Jerk
Office life is full of drama, and this story proves that you can become the villain even without doing anything.
A now-deleted Reddit user made a post on the subreddit ‘Am I the [Jerk]?‘ describing a particularly weird spot they ended up in.
Some time ago, one of their colleagues started asking around if somebody could “donate” their paid time off to her so she could attend to her sick daughter.
Eventually, word got out that our Redditor had a few days, and the woman confronted them. However, she received a negative reply, and the whole thing quickly escalated.
This person had saved up a few days off and was planning to spend them with their family
Image credits: Jason Goodman (not the actual photo)
But a coworker started demanding they “donate” their “savings”
Image credits: Sigmund (not the actual photo)
American workers are actually notorious for being workaholics. Since March of 2020, an overwhelming majority of U.S. employees have shortened, postponed, or canceled their vacation time, according to one survey of 2,000 people within the country.
Another recent study found that 26% of its respondents had never taken two weeks of vacation at one time.
And the Center for Economic and Policy Research has even gone so far as to call the U.S. the “No Vacation Nation.”
However, leaving vacation time on the table is taking its toll on us. A recent study by the World Health Organization (WHO) found that 745,000 people died in 2016 from heart disease and stroke due to long hours and said the trend might worsen due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The research suggested that working 55 hours or more a week was associated with a 35% higher risk of stroke and a 17% higher risk of dying from heart disease than a workweek of 35 to 40 hours.
So saying that our Redditor had “nothing to lose” by giving up their paid time off is actually simply not true.
Not to mention that going on holiday makes you feel more present and stimulated. “When we travel, we are usually breaking our normal routine,” Richard Davidson, professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, and founder of the Center for Healthy Minds, told Forbes.
That means we break our autopilot cycle. “[The] decreased familiarity is an opportunity for most people to be more fully present, to really wake up,” he explained.
According to other research, meditation and vacations appear to have overlapping effects—the report discovered that both meditation exercises and vacationing were associated with higher levels of well-being and increased mindfulness.
So think twice the next time someone (or your own brain) tries to rationalize you out of getting some well-deserved rest!
People think the original poster (OP) had every right to refuse
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The real problem here is that a mother has no possibility to care for her child other than begging for other people's well deserved vacation days. Here in Germany, you have unlimited sick days for yourself and a limited number to care for your children. If you go over that limit, your health insurance will come up for it.
The problem here is the stupid system which doesn't give parents time to look after sick kids.
There is a system, it's called FMLA, among others. The problem here is, she's a parent with bad planning and just "expects" everyone else to chip in to help her out. She is literally asking everyone to donate money to her, money they earned. Which if fine, but saying "no" should be equally fine. I have 4 kids, and working around a shedule to do a doctor's visit, school thing, or whatever is one thing. Literally asking for the equivalent of cash is another becuase my lack of planning. Make arrangements, save you PTO, have a GD emergency fund so you can take FMLA unpaid if needed. If your kid has these issues, you should of been preparing for this, this isn't sudden.Be freaking responsible for your children, choose to save for these unpaid days instead of the nails/hair/new iphone, nice car payment..... There are MANY options avaliable to her in the U.S, she is just a leech, and too lazy to exercise those options.
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The "I got kids" argument pisses me off. Well yeah, I have a cat, so we are even!
Same I have cats and dogs that needed attention and care too.
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i wouldn't be surprised if the mom is milking her kid's condition to get days off. i don't see why psoriasis (a non-lifethreatening skin condition) would require her to use up all her sick days & garner enough sympathy for others to donate to her. her kid doesn't need an organ transplant. her kid doesn't have cancer. yeah psoriasis isn't pleasant, but it isn't a severe illness that requires round-the-clock care so based on the mother's entitled behavior & the nature of psoriasis as a condition i 100% believe she's duped her other coworkers into thinking her kid is wayyy sicker than they really are so they pity her & donate even though it isn't really necessary. the bullying goes farther than just op; i genuinely believe she's manipulated everyone to take advantage of kindness she's seen online (coworkers donating vacation days to someone going through chemo for example).
The OP is saying it’s psoriasis but could be something like psoriatic arthritis which is a pretty serious condition similar to rheumatoid arthritis. So the time off may be warranted. That being said the mother and coworkers are definitely out of line.
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Why do you accept donation as a solution for health-problems.... this is not normal. Bills, days off... everybody is almost forced to donate to make other survive... I don't understand the acceptance in this...
It''s almost as if the people could get together and give a small amount of their wages to helpother people, and would be there if they also needed help. They could vote for an organisation that could administer a situation like this for everyone. In my country we call that "GOVERNMENT"
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I f*****g detest this b******t of acting like people without kids are less deserving of time off than people who do have them. Additionally, it's on the employer to make allowances for time off for emergencies, not the other employees.
The problem is that the bosses tried to play the workers against each other by publishing the PTO data (would be illegal in Europe) rather than deal with the issue themselves.
Load More Replies... Don't you just love it when greedy, stingy management turn employees against each other instead of providing fair work conditions...
Wrong from beginning to end. The mom should NEVER have had access to how much PTO each employee had. The boss should have protected from that and not made a spreadsheet for all to see. You do not browbeat people into donating what they have earned. If they choose not to, that's where it ends. I would donate, if I could, to someone in crisis for whatever reason. I would not, however, continue to donate to someone who has a recurring reason to keep asking. There are solutions for situations like that which are not the responsibility of fellow employees to provide.
Absolutely, I don't generally understand why would anyone know how much PTO I have left, or don't have any. I don't care about others people's work days also. That concept seems pretty harmful to me because it gives other associates the right to talk about it between themselves, whether you're present or not. Very bad working atmosphere and therefore, worse results. In my artistic work environment, it would never pass as normal. Because it's not.
Load More Replies... In a civilized country, which I assume is not the place where this took place, parents have paid leave to assist their sick children, on top of their vacation days.
Why should parents get more time off than employees who don't have kids? I don't understand that reasoning. That's not civilized, that's socialism.
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What kind of sh*t is this?! I'm sorry, but I don't understand what does it even mean, that you have certain amount of sickdays or that you can donate vacationdays? In Finland, if you or your child are sick and you can't work, then you're sick and won't work. It doesn't matter if it's one day in a year or five days every month.. and when you've used your vacationdays, you can often take unpaid days or use your hours if you've done overtime.. it shouldn't be coworker's duty to make sure you get enough time off.
But this mom with child who has psoriasis (non-life threatening skin condition) wanted for everyone else to donate to her their PAID days off. Not sick days, but paid vacations. (Of which they have a lot of too few anyway).
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I think intentionally leaving a particular worker out of important emails is unprofessional and somewhat illegal. They can sue thw company for false claims of works leftover if they never sent the work email. It can be really effective to sue the company of discriminatory behaviour based on personal bias
And the boss couldn't just grant the mom extra PTO, because.....? By the way, in civilised countries we have a set number of sick days to care for children or for ourselves.
Just another example of horrible corporate culture pitting workers against each other. Next time "Sally really deserves a raise, how much of a paycut will you each chip in to make this happen?"
Sash don't give them ideas! Someone might see opportunity here
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I don't get why people in the US don't go ape s**t on this vacation and paid time off thing. It's barbaric. And it's not like 1 week is q lot hahah. Insanity! I have gave 37 plus 22 coming up next October and would not donate them
Just get a job that provides you with enough vacation/sick time or PTO. A business needs enough people to keep running. If you don't like the benefits, go elsewhere.
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The boss and co-worker are so out of line and creating a hostile work environment. I wish there was an update to this one. You are not responsible for other people's kids. We get so little vacation time as it is, I'm not sacrificing my precious time for someone I don't know or work closely with. If it's that important that she get the time off, management should give it to her and not punish everyone else by trying to take their time.
This makes me so mad. The company should not demand other staff donate money (which is essentially what PTO is) when they could more easily help out their employee. At least in NJ (where I live), we have paid family leave in the form of up to 12 weeks off with 80% of your salary (but it's capped). California and seven other states and DC have it too. You also get job protection.
Glad to hear that some states are a bit more generous.
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Is it legal for the boss to post personal vacation days? That just really seems like that’s crossing a line.
So much WRONG in this. A few people have mentioned (and I think it’s important to emphasize) that PTO is equivalent to *salary* (in the USA, anyway). Plus: it’s not entirely clear, but OP is new and might have only one, maybe two to weeks of vacation for the year. If these people insist on proceeding with this madness, they should target employees with seniority who get 3–4-5+ weeks of vacation annually. And why isn’t the company itself offering to help out? They could just give the woman extra time off. Or if they’ve gotta get employees involved, they could match the number of employee-contributed days?
Lol is that a village company? That sounds like what village folk will do in an oppressed medieval village. After all the church and the lord have their fill, the peasants would have to fight over what's left of the harvest... No Graham even though you worked twice as hard on your field, you need to give them to Stuart. How dare you say no? It doesn't matter he spends more time at the pub, he has a FAMILY!
Weird that you can take someone else's vacation days. What if someone gets paid way less? Where I work you can buy free days. You just get less income.
Posting the time that people have off is a violation of privacy. It would be the equivalent of posting an excel sheet with everyone's pay. The person that posted it should be reprimanded and the OP should start looking for work elsewhere. Any company that tolerates this behavior is not worth working for.
This is not a matter of just giving up some days off! This is being asked to surrender part or all of a paycheck. That's a double loss to you and a double gain to her. Not only are you giving her time to spend with her daughter, but you are also paying her to do so! Why doesn't she just take UNPAID LEAVE? Her entitlement and the ridiculous wokeness of the others are disgusting.
What a strange situation. You aren’t obligated to give anything to anybody and don’t need to offer any explanation. Why do people with kids think their needs are greater than other people’s? It’s like smokers back in the day taking breaks all the time while the rest of us continued working. I remember years ago just getting a new job after being unemployed for a long time and being asked to donate $20 I really needed myself until my first paycheque for some woman’s baby shower I never met. I mean why would they even ask me during my first week but I felt like obligated because I wanted to fit in to my new workplace? Still rankles over 2 decades later.
Come on. I saved up mine IN CASE OF emergency. And I used it when my family had one. I had two months of it banked up and I ended I up needing it for my husband. We never know.
NTA! - that's exactly why I don't have kids. So I don't have to pester strangers for time off so basically taking their hard earned vacation day to spend on my sick child. Guess what She could instead asked to swap shifts and work around schedules and her family needs. You're hard working young graduate, you work therefore you have earned you pto! I don't care if next to you is mother Theresa herself begging you to give up days. Just no! Equal work, equal expectations. If you say this out loud and change PTO to "I need your daily earnings to go spend time with my family" you would think this person is crazy. Unfortunately everyone has their own life and live within their own restrictions. Mother must find other ways for childcare. You are not the problem here, the problem is lack of support the mother has in the form of affordable childcare and healthcare. USA the land of the rich and entitlement, but nothing to show for it if you only look at average citizen and quality of life
NTA. That’s ur time and if u don’t want to give it away that’s fine. If u chose to help her that’s awesome. But that’s that. This makes me think of my sister as her oldest son just had a severe health issue where he ended up being flown across our province for an emergency surgery and was told either way since it took this long he will never walk again. My sister needless to say took time off of work to go be with her son. Some of her colleagues all pitched in and donate hours (of their own accord without anyone asking them to) to help her out as the first 2 weeks she didn’t leave the hospital room). That was something that she didn’t expect but was so happy and grateful that they did for her. It was an amazing gesture from them. But not expected. My nephew has surpassed all doctors expectations and has been in rehabilitation learning to walk again and every new goal they set for him he is demolishing weeks ahead of the dates they think.
Back in my 'working in retail' days, I worked most second-tier holidays, I'll work St. Paddy's day, because I'm not interested in any 'drinking' holiday. I'm not religious so yeah, I'll work Sunday. Need me to come in early or stay late? Sure thing. Come in on my day off? Yep. * I wasn't working that much because I loved it, we needed the money so I took all the hours I could get. One nice thing about being that reliable? On the rare occasion you do ask for a particular holiday off they tend to give it to you. They like to keep the reliable ones happy.
The office should give that person the necessary time to take care of her daughter and not turn it into a fight between co workers. I took a month and a half because my mom was in the hospital and someone had to take care of her. I still received my salary and I my vacation time was affected. That country has to change their laws instead of making the workers fight.
We have something called compassionate leave in the U.K, that and the fact that kids are legal dependents so you legally can take time off if they're sick, no-one would need to give up holiday, that's ridiculous.
Honestly, when I become manager of my own business, this is NOT gonna happen to my coworkers. Unlimited sick days and days for self-care, and a four day work week would be the norm. In addition, it’s not about how many hours are worked. It’s what you DO with them that counts. Aimless companies are the ones who create aimless busywork, and end up eating up the lives of their workers. Not in my house. BTW, the company itself is definitely the rearhole. Most companies are.
What do you think happens when you build an economy from the ground up on subjugating and exploiting people? You think that subjugation just disappears or does it just transform?
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HR or payroll people, a question: how does this work? Does the recipient of the donated days get the salary of the person who donated? Or their normal compensation? For example, a mid tier employee who makes $30 an hour, gets a day donated by the VP, who earns $100 an hour, and a day by the receptionist, who only makes $12 an hour. Does the person get their normal compensation of $240 a day, or will they get $800 one day and $96 the next?
If they ask again say "I feel for her, I do, but I can't spare $xxx you're asking for" filling in with your daily or weekly salary. It will sound so much more ridiculous a request if you reframe it that way. She isn't asking for time off, they can just give her that. She is asking to get your wage for that time period.
If you are on a contract, your annual pay factors in a certain amount of time for your annual leave. Essentially you are being paid for 47 weeks a year, not 52 weeks a year (assuming 5 weeks annual leave as is usual in the UK)). If you come in on a holiday day, you are working for free.
Never mind the fact that people who don't take holidays and constantly work, end up burning themselves out, ending up being the ones in need. The US "system" sucks.
It's NOT a question of "the OP had every right to refuse" but a question of the others having NO right to ask." Apparently everyone knew of the situation. People CLOSE to the OP could offer to donate. It MIGHT be OK for them to mention that to others but NEVER OK for them to flat-out ask. As for the boss who posted the details he's TA in spades, and if he's so concerned about the OP he should fund a few days himself, not pressure others to do so. Meanwhile, others will, in addition, be doing her work. And has OP said anything about paying back? I'll bet not.
1) How many days did the "boss" give? 2) I would have said see how you feel when you can't see your child for Christmas. Would you like to call my mom? 3) This is an HR issue
Hold up, the co-workers were seriously talking to OP to decide if their reason for taking PTO was 'worthy'? Who are they to judge on how another person uses their own PTO?
Donating PTO sounds dumb. Why would someone think it’s okay to bully someone into donating their PTO to them? Like people don’t deserve a vacation because it’s not a emergency? What!?!? This country has regulated unhealthy work culture to such perfection that people don’t even notice.
Ugh, only in America. Why can't we have mandatory sick & vacation leave like other countries. Other countries get like 2 months. We get barely 2 weeks, sometimes less. GRRR
Thing is, in a the western world you are actually required to go on vacation. You are not generally allowed to cash in your vacation days (like "I don't need 5 weeks, I'll just tahe 3 and please give me the rest in money") so the idea of "donating" time off is ridiculous. You guys better start voting for the right people so you can catch up on what is normal in the rest of the civilized world. PS: NTA. Your time, you are free to chose.
NTA, your country ITA. In my country we have sick days and sick days for taking care of your ill children...
Upper management can give her as many days as they want - paid or unpaid. They make the rules. They shouldn't be pressuring other workers to give up theirs. I would suggest reminding other colleagues of this, and that rather than harassing you, they should organise and petition management for better parental leave.
When my kids were little, I never asked for other people's PTO, I just took unpaid leave, if it got to that. I felt that's what I signed up for when I had kids. There are a lot of improvements that I've seen in the workplace, like flex time and working from home, that are long overdue and in our workplace, it's been a huge benefit for parents, especially when school's out. I wish that was a thing when I had my kids, but I'm happy that things are getting better for the next gen!
NTA. They put the rest of the workers in the spotlight so that they are pressured to give away some of their own pto. I'm sorry her child is sick but that isn't a you problem. Yes it sucks and you can show empathy and offer other ways to help, but that is your time to do as you please. If you say no, you shouldn't be made to he the bad guy when the ones who should take responsibility is the company that gives such stingey time off. And management for making that information public.
This whole "donate PTO" nonsense was invented by ahole managers to get employees focused on each other and not on the fact that their company has garbage time off policies. On the flip tho, was there a reason this person couldn't take FMLA? It's there for this very reason. This makes me suspect that the "condition" of the child is not severe enough to warrant time off and that this "victim" is milking it. At the end of the day, OP is not a the ahole. It's not their responsibility in life to make sure that basically some stranger has time off to take care of their kid. That's between the mother and HR. I'd be looking for a position at another company after the toxic reaction of the coworkers. Seems like a crappy place to work all around.
The mom is not in the wrong here in the bigger picture. It's the capitalism system of limited days even if you _need_ more. You need laws and taxes to protect parents rights to care for their kids without begging others. And worker's rights so these type of things won't happen. No one except your employer should be able to see how many days you have left and no one should have a say in how you should use them and what is a valid reason. This is craziness to me.
A few of things to think about: 1) some people earn PTO at a different rate so a week of vacation might take one person 20-50% longer to accumulate compared to others. 2) PTO IS money so why directly ask for cash? Let's see how generous they'd be when it's cold hard cash. 3) management screwed the OP over but it may have been unrelated; it's bad to post pto hours but I can see how filling out the PTO calendar could be important. Overall, that job environment is probably too toxic to stay in now. Also, If that company had a heart, they should be matching the donated PTO to some degree.
Funny how none of OP's colleagues are pointing the blame where it truly belongs: the company.
I think the issue of having so little PTO is the issue. I live in Australia and we have 4 weeks a year, 1 week for every 3 months employed. If you are a shift worker, you get 6.
PTO is a part of your total compensation. I would tell them, "I'll be happy to sell my PTO to you for the equivalent of my hourly rate. Let's see, I make $25 an hour, you need a week, so that's 40 x $25 - I'll take that in $20 or $50 bills - better head to the ATM, chop chop."
My son was up all night being sick the other day and I stayed up with him to help him. 7am I called my boss and asked for an emergency day as we were both tired and he would not be allowed to go to school (not that I would make him). Granted straight away, doesn't come off my holiday time either. Capitalism is not about working yourself to death. It used to be that capitalism was about barter or trade, each party gets a fair deal, be that an exchange of labour or goods. Now all it is is greed, and the little people suffer.
The assho le is the system you are working in. What a sicko system where coworkers bully you into giving up the few PTO days you have because a mother has a sick child at home and can't take care of it.
"American workers are actually notorious for being workaholics." You know what? That's a lie! America is notorious for exploiting their own people to the last bit. Humilating working ethics and zero F-s give to basic human needs. Guy is not a problem - your boss and the set up system is your problem. But you won't dare to take them and ask for responsibility. You are rather happy to bully your working colleague. (Most people are morons) America is the best!!!!
Yeah, yeah. Keep on telling yourself that America is the best.
Load More Replies... The real problem here is that a mother has no possibility to care for her child other than begging for other people's well deserved vacation days. Here in Germany, you have unlimited sick days for yourself and a limited number to care for your children. If you go over that limit, your health insurance will come up for it.
The problem here is the stupid system which doesn't give parents time to look after sick kids.
There is a system, it's called FMLA, among others. The problem here is, she's a parent with bad planning and just "expects" everyone else to chip in to help her out. She is literally asking everyone to donate money to her, money they earned. Which if fine, but saying "no" should be equally fine. I have 4 kids, and working around a shedule to do a doctor's visit, school thing, or whatever is one thing. Literally asking for the equivalent of cash is another becuase my lack of planning. Make arrangements, save you PTO, have a GD emergency fund so you can take FMLA unpaid if needed. If your kid has these issues, you should of been preparing for this, this isn't sudden.Be freaking responsible for your children, choose to save for these unpaid days instead of the nails/hair/new iphone, nice car payment..... There are MANY options avaliable to her in the U.S, she is just a leech, and too lazy to exercise those options.
Load More Replies... The "I got kids" argument pisses me off. Well yeah, I have a cat, so we are even!
Same I have cats and dogs that needed attention and care too.
Load More Replies... i wouldn't be surprised if the mom is milking her kid's condition to get days off. i don't see why psoriasis (a non-lifethreatening skin condition) would require her to use up all her sick days & garner enough sympathy for others to donate to her. her kid doesn't need an organ transplant. her kid doesn't have cancer. yeah psoriasis isn't pleasant, but it isn't a severe illness that requires round-the-clock care so based on the mother's entitled behavior & the nature of psoriasis as a condition i 100% believe she's duped her other coworkers into thinking her kid is wayyy sicker than they really are so they pity her & donate even though it isn't really necessary. the bullying goes farther than just op; i genuinely believe she's manipulated everyone to take advantage of kindness she's seen online (coworkers donating vacation days to someone going through chemo for example).
The OP is saying it’s psoriasis but could be something like psoriatic arthritis which is a pretty serious condition similar to rheumatoid arthritis. So the time off may be warranted. That being said the mother and coworkers are definitely out of line.
Load More Replies... Why do you accept donation as a solution for health-problems.... this is not normal. Bills, days off... everybody is almost forced to donate to make other survive... I don't understand the acceptance in this...
It''s almost as if the people could get together and give a small amount of their wages to helpother people, and would be there if they also needed help. They could vote for an organisation that could administer a situation like this for everyone. In my country we call that "GOVERNMENT"
Load More Replies... I f*****g detest this b******t of acting like people without kids are less deserving of time off than people who do have them. Additionally, it's on the employer to make allowances for time off for emergencies, not the other employees.
The problem is that the bosses tried to play the workers against each other by publishing the PTO data (would be illegal in Europe) rather than deal with the issue themselves.
Load More Replies... Don't you just love it when greedy, stingy management turn employees against each other instead of providing fair work conditions...
Wrong from beginning to end. The mom should NEVER have had access to how much PTO each employee had. The boss should have protected from that and not made a spreadsheet for all to see. You do not browbeat people into donating what they have earned. If they choose not to, that's where it ends. I would donate, if I could, to someone in crisis for whatever reason. I would not, however, continue to donate to someone who has a recurring reason to keep asking. There are solutions for situations like that which are not the responsibility of fellow employees to provide.
Absolutely, I don't generally understand why would anyone know how much PTO I have left, or don't have any. I don't care about others people's work days also. That concept seems pretty harmful to me because it gives other associates the right to talk about it between themselves, whether you're present or not. Very bad working atmosphere and therefore, worse results. In my artistic work environment, it would never pass as normal. Because it's not.
Load More Replies... In a civilized country, which I assume is not the place where this took place, parents have paid leave to assist their sick children, on top of their vacation days.
Why should parents get more time off than employees who don't have kids? I don't understand that reasoning. That's not civilized, that's socialism.
Load More Replies... What kind of sh*t is this?! I'm sorry, but I don't understand what does it even mean, that you have certain amount of sickdays or that you can donate vacationdays? In Finland, if you or your child are sick and you can't work, then you're sick and won't work. It doesn't matter if it's one day in a year or five days every month.. and when you've used your vacationdays, you can often take unpaid days or use your hours if you've done overtime.. it shouldn't be coworker's duty to make sure you get enough time off.
But this mom with child who has psoriasis (non-life threatening skin condition) wanted for everyone else to donate to her their PAID days off. Not sick days, but paid vacations. (Of which they have a lot of too few anyway).
Load More Replies... I think intentionally leaving a particular worker out of important emails is unprofessional and somewhat illegal. They can sue thw company for false claims of works leftover if they never sent the work email. It can be really effective to sue the company of discriminatory behaviour based on personal bias
And the boss couldn't just grant the mom extra PTO, because.....? By the way, in civilised countries we have a set number of sick days to care for children or for ourselves.
Just another example of horrible corporate culture pitting workers against each other. Next time "Sally really deserves a raise, how much of a paycut will you each chip in to make this happen?"
Sash don't give them ideas! Someone might see opportunity here
Load More Replies... I don't get why people in the US don't go ape s**t on this vacation and paid time off thing. It's barbaric. And it's not like 1 week is q lot hahah. Insanity! I have gave 37 plus 22 coming up next October and would not donate them
Just get a job that provides you with enough vacation/sick time or PTO. A business needs enough people to keep running. If you don't like the benefits, go elsewhere.
Load More Replies... The boss and co-worker are so out of line and creating a hostile work environment. I wish there was an update to this one. You are not responsible for other people's kids. We get so little vacation time as it is, I'm not sacrificing my precious time for someone I don't know or work closely with. If it's that important that she get the time off, management should give it to her and not punish everyone else by trying to take their time.
This makes me so mad. The company should not demand other staff donate money (which is essentially what PTO is) when they could more easily help out their employee. At least in NJ (where I live), we have paid family leave in the form of up to 12 weeks off with 80% of your salary (but it's capped). California and seven other states and DC have it too. You also get job protection.
Glad to hear that some states are a bit more generous.
Load More Replies... Is it legal for the boss to post personal vacation days? That just really seems like that’s crossing a line.
So much WRONG in this. A few people have mentioned (and I think it’s important to emphasize) that PTO is equivalent to *salary* (in the USA, anyway). Plus: it’s not entirely clear, but OP is new and might have only one, maybe two to weeks of vacation for the year. If these people insist on proceeding with this madness, they should target employees with seniority who get 3–4-5+ weeks of vacation annually. And why isn’t the company itself offering to help out? They could just give the woman extra time off. Or if they’ve gotta get employees involved, they could match the number of employee-contributed days?
Lol is that a village company? That sounds like what village folk will do in an oppressed medieval village. After all the church and the lord have their fill, the peasants would have to fight over what's left of the harvest... No Graham even though you worked twice as hard on your field, you need to give them to Stuart. How dare you say no? It doesn't matter he spends more time at the pub, he has a FAMILY!
Weird that you can take someone else's vacation days. What if someone gets paid way less? Where I work you can buy free days. You just get less income.
Posting the time that people have off is a violation of privacy. It would be the equivalent of posting an excel sheet with everyone's pay. The person that posted it should be reprimanded and the OP should start looking for work elsewhere. Any company that tolerates this behavior is not worth working for.
This is not a matter of just giving up some days off! This is being asked to surrender part or all of a paycheck. That's a double loss to you and a double gain to her. Not only are you giving her time to spend with her daughter, but you are also paying her to do so! Why doesn't she just take UNPAID LEAVE? Her entitlement and the ridiculous wokeness of the others are disgusting.
What a strange situation. You aren’t obligated to give anything to anybody and don’t need to offer any explanation. Why do people with kids think their needs are greater than other people’s? It’s like smokers back in the day taking breaks all the time while the rest of us continued working. I remember years ago just getting a new job after being unemployed for a long time and being asked to donate $20 I really needed myself until my first paycheque for some woman’s baby shower I never met. I mean why would they even ask me during my first week but I felt like obligated because I wanted to fit in to my new workplace? Still rankles over 2 decades later.
Come on. I saved up mine IN CASE OF emergency. And I used it when my family had one. I had two months of it banked up and I ended I up needing it for my husband. We never know.
NTA! - that's exactly why I don't have kids. So I don't have to pester strangers for time off so basically taking their hard earned vacation day to spend on my sick child. Guess what She could instead asked to swap shifts and work around schedules and her family needs. You're hard working young graduate, you work therefore you have earned you pto! I don't care if next to you is mother Theresa herself begging you to give up days. Just no! Equal work, equal expectations. If you say this out loud and change PTO to "I need your daily earnings to go spend time with my family" you would think this person is crazy. Unfortunately everyone has their own life and live within their own restrictions. Mother must find other ways for childcare. You are not the problem here, the problem is lack of support the mother has in the form of affordable childcare and healthcare. USA the land of the rich and entitlement, but nothing to show for it if you only look at average citizen and quality of life
NTA. That’s ur time and if u don’t want to give it away that’s fine. If u chose to help her that’s awesome. But that’s that. This makes me think of my sister as her oldest son just had a severe health issue where he ended up being flown across our province for an emergency surgery and was told either way since it took this long he will never walk again. My sister needless to say took time off of work to go be with her son. Some of her colleagues all pitched in and donate hours (of their own accord without anyone asking them to) to help her out as the first 2 weeks she didn’t leave the hospital room). That was something that she didn’t expect but was so happy and grateful that they did for her. It was an amazing gesture from them. But not expected. My nephew has surpassed all doctors expectations and has been in rehabilitation learning to walk again and every new goal they set for him he is demolishing weeks ahead of the dates they think.
Back in my 'working in retail' days, I worked most second-tier holidays, I'll work St. Paddy's day, because I'm not interested in any 'drinking' holiday. I'm not religious so yeah, I'll work Sunday. Need me to come in early or stay late? Sure thing. Come in on my day off? Yep. * I wasn't working that much because I loved it, we needed the money so I took all the hours I could get. One nice thing about being that reliable? On the rare occasion you do ask for a particular holiday off they tend to give it to you. They like to keep the reliable ones happy.
The office should give that person the necessary time to take care of her daughter and not turn it into a fight between co workers. I took a month and a half because my mom was in the hospital and someone had to take care of her. I still received my salary and I my vacation time was affected. That country has to change their laws instead of making the workers fight.
We have something called compassionate leave in the U.K, that and the fact that kids are legal dependents so you legally can take time off if they're sick, no-one would need to give up holiday, that's ridiculous.
Honestly, when I become manager of my own business, this is NOT gonna happen to my coworkers. Unlimited sick days and days for self-care, and a four day work week would be the norm. In addition, it’s not about how many hours are worked. It’s what you DO with them that counts. Aimless companies are the ones who create aimless busywork, and end up eating up the lives of their workers. Not in my house. BTW, the company itself is definitely the rearhole. Most companies are.
What do you think happens when you build an economy from the ground up on subjugating and exploiting people? You think that subjugation just disappears or does it just transform?
Load More Replies... HR or payroll people, a question: how does this work? Does the recipient of the donated days get the salary of the person who donated? Or their normal compensation? For example, a mid tier employee who makes $30 an hour, gets a day donated by the VP, who earns $100 an hour, and a day by the receptionist, who only makes $12 an hour. Does the person get their normal compensation of $240 a day, or will they get $800 one day and $96 the next?
If they ask again say "I feel for her, I do, but I can't spare $xxx you're asking for" filling in with your daily or weekly salary. It will sound so much more ridiculous a request if you reframe it that way. She isn't asking for time off, they can just give her that. She is asking to get your wage for that time period.
If you are on a contract, your annual pay factors in a certain amount of time for your annual leave. Essentially you are being paid for 47 weeks a year, not 52 weeks a year (assuming 5 weeks annual leave as is usual in the UK)). If you come in on a holiday day, you are working for free.
Never mind the fact that people who don't take holidays and constantly work, end up burning themselves out, ending up being the ones in need. The US "system" sucks.
It's NOT a question of "the OP had every right to refuse" but a question of the others having NO right to ask." Apparently everyone knew of the situation. People CLOSE to the OP could offer to donate. It MIGHT be OK for them to mention that to others but NEVER OK for them to flat-out ask. As for the boss who posted the details he's TA in spades, and if he's so concerned about the OP he should fund a few days himself, not pressure others to do so. Meanwhile, others will, in addition, be doing her work. And has OP said anything about paying back? I'll bet not.
1) How many days did the "boss" give? 2) I would have said see how you feel when you can't see your child for Christmas. Would you like to call my mom? 3) This is an HR issue
Hold up, the co-workers were seriously talking to OP to decide if their reason for taking PTO was 'worthy'? Who are they to judge on how another person uses their own PTO?
Donating PTO sounds dumb. Why would someone think it’s okay to bully someone into donating their PTO to them? Like people don’t deserve a vacation because it’s not a emergency? What!?!? This country has regulated unhealthy work culture to such perfection that people don’t even notice.
Ugh, only in America. Why can't we have mandatory sick & vacation leave like other countries. Other countries get like 2 months. We get barely 2 weeks, sometimes less. GRRR
Thing is, in a the western world you are actually required to go on vacation. You are not generally allowed to cash in your vacation days (like "I don't need 5 weeks, I'll just tahe 3 and please give me the rest in money") so the idea of "donating" time off is ridiculous. You guys better start voting for the right people so you can catch up on what is normal in the rest of the civilized world. PS: NTA. Your time, you are free to chose.
NTA, your country ITA. In my country we have sick days and sick days for taking care of your ill children...
Upper management can give her as many days as they want - paid or unpaid. They make the rules. They shouldn't be pressuring other workers to give up theirs. I would suggest reminding other colleagues of this, and that rather than harassing you, they should organise and petition management for better parental leave.
When my kids were little, I never asked for other people's PTO, I just took unpaid leave, if it got to that. I felt that's what I signed up for when I had kids. There are a lot of improvements that I've seen in the workplace, like flex time and working from home, that are long overdue and in our workplace, it's been a huge benefit for parents, especially when school's out. I wish that was a thing when I had my kids, but I'm happy that things are getting better for the next gen!
NTA. They put the rest of the workers in the spotlight so that they are pressured to give away some of their own pto. I'm sorry her child is sick but that isn't a you problem. Yes it sucks and you can show empathy and offer other ways to help, but that is your time to do as you please. If you say no, you shouldn't be made to he the bad guy when the ones who should take responsibility is the company that gives such stingey time off. And management for making that information public.
This whole "donate PTO" nonsense was invented by ahole managers to get employees focused on each other and not on the fact that their company has garbage time off policies. On the flip tho, was there a reason this person couldn't take FMLA? It's there for this very reason. This makes me suspect that the "condition" of the child is not severe enough to warrant time off and that this "victim" is milking it. At the end of the day, OP is not a the ahole. It's not their responsibility in life to make sure that basically some stranger has time off to take care of their kid. That's between the mother and HR. I'd be looking for a position at another company after the toxic reaction of the coworkers. Seems like a crappy place to work all around.
The mom is not in the wrong here in the bigger picture. It's the capitalism system of limited days even if you _need_ more. You need laws and taxes to protect parents rights to care for their kids without begging others. And worker's rights so these type of things won't happen. No one except your employer should be able to see how many days you have left and no one should have a say in how you should use them and what is a valid reason. This is craziness to me.
A few of things to think about: 1) some people earn PTO at a different rate so a week of vacation might take one person 20-50% longer to accumulate compared to others. 2) PTO IS money so why directly ask for cash? Let's see how generous they'd be when it's cold hard cash. 3) management screwed the OP over but it may have been unrelated; it's bad to post pto hours but I can see how filling out the PTO calendar could be important. Overall, that job environment is probably too toxic to stay in now. Also, If that company had a heart, they should be matching the donated PTO to some degree.
Funny how none of OP's colleagues are pointing the blame where it truly belongs: the company.
I think the issue of having so little PTO is the issue. I live in Australia and we have 4 weeks a year, 1 week for every 3 months employed. If you are a shift worker, you get 6.
PTO is a part of your total compensation. I would tell them, "I'll be happy to sell my PTO to you for the equivalent of my hourly rate. Let's see, I make $25 an hour, you need a week, so that's 40 x $25 - I'll take that in $20 or $50 bills - better head to the ATM, chop chop."
My son was up all night being sick the other day and I stayed up with him to help him. 7am I called my boss and asked for an emergency day as we were both tired and he would not be allowed to go to school (not that I would make him). Granted straight away, doesn't come off my holiday time either. Capitalism is not about working yourself to death. It used to be that capitalism was about barter or trade, each party gets a fair deal, be that an exchange of labour or goods. Now all it is is greed, and the little people suffer.
The assho le is the system you are working in. What a sicko system where coworkers bully you into giving up the few PTO days you have because a mother has a sick child at home and can't take care of it.
"American workers are actually notorious for being workaholics." You know what? That's a lie! America is notorious for exploiting their own people to the last bit. Humilating working ethics and zero F-s give to basic human needs. Guy is not a problem - your boss and the set up system is your problem. But you won't dare to take them and ask for responsibility. You are rather happy to bully your working colleague. (Most people are morons) America is the best!!!!
Yeah, yeah. Keep on telling yourself that America is the best.
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