Dad Doesn’t Want His 6-Year-Old Daughter To Go To Beauty Pageants, His Ex-Fiancée Disagrees
There she is, Miss America– Well, little Miss America. She’s still in diapers, but isn’t she gorgeous?
Did you know that children can start entering beauty pageants before they’re even a year old? I think most infants look pretty much the same, with their adorable chubby cheeks and wide-eyed expressions, but apparently they can be judged on their appearance, their outfits, their talent and… How long they can go without needing to be changed?
Child beauty pageants have been controversial for quite some time, with the TLC show Toddlers & Tiaras launching them into the mainstream media over the past decade or two. But how would you feel if your child was planning on entering one?
One father recently posted on the “Am I the [Jerk]?” subreddit asking for advice because his ex plans to enter their daughter in a beauty pageant, and he is not on board. Below, you’ll find the full story, as well as responses from invested readers, and you can decide for yourself whether or not you’d allow your child to get all glammed up for a pageant. Then, if you’re interested in reading another Bored Panda article discussing beauty pageants, look no further than right here!
This father refuses to get on board with his ex’s idea that their young daughter will start competing in beauty pageants
Image credits: fxquadro (not the actual photo)
Image credits: Prostock-studio (not the actual photo)
Image credits: ThROwRAabcdef1235
Pageants, in general, are a bit controversial, as they have been known to promote unrealistic beauty standards, place more emphasis on physical traits than internal qualities and have a negative impact on participants’ self-esteem. But when a woman is an adult, she can make an informed decision for herself whether or not entering a pageant is a good idea. When it comes to children, on the other hand, they likely have no idea what they’re getting themselves into. And do we really want to be teaching our young girls that the way to become valuable is to be pretty, answer questions diplomatically and walk across a stage smiling despite how uncomfortable their outfit and shoes are?
According to Dr. Allan Schwartz, LCSW, “Psychologists and psychiatrists largely agree that pageants, such as Toddlers and Tiaras, reinforce negative female body image issues that result in eating disorders such as anorexia and bulimia. As evidence of this, mental health experts point out the trend towards the onset of eating disorders at much younger ages than ever before. For example, beauty competitions emphasize the ‘Barbie doll’ image of what a beauty queen should look like. The trouble is that there is no way for a human being to look that way because it is so exaggerated.”
Young girls in pageants (yes, even 6-year-olds) are expected to be spray-tanned, wearing full faces of makeup, wearing wigs, wearing fake teeth and participating in rigorous beauty regimens that most adult women can’t afford (and wouldn’t be able to maintain regularly even if they could). Children should be allowed to run around and enjoy their childhood without feeling any pressure to look a certain way and be judged for how they look. Sadly, girls will hear plenty of opinions about their appearances once they grow up; there’s no need to subject them to that scrutiny from a young age.
Child beauty pageants are also notorious for sexualizing children. “The stereotyped thinking that females are sexual objects is detrimental to these kids,” Dr. Schwartz writes. “Their make up, clothes and types of dances all focus on being sexy. If you have any doubt about this, just watch [Toddlers & Tiaras] to see for yourself.”
When it comes to the father in this particular story, he has every right to be concerned about his daughter being entered in a pageant at such a young age, when it’s really not even up to her. It’s up to her parents to decide. Not to mention the fact that participating in pageants is an extremely expensive hobby. One mother of a Toddlers & Tiaras participant told Today in 2011 that entry fees for a pageant can be around $400, and the glamorous dresses can cost a whopping $4,000. “Costumes, they’re around $300 to $500. Coaching lessons are $50 a session, which is like an hour,” the mother told Today. “If you get into headshots, that’s super expensive. So it gets pretty expensive, not including your [hotel] stay and your gas and everything.”
Especially if he is going to be the one financially responsible for this new pageant hobby, this father is justified in wanting to have a say in whether or not his daughter participates. Perhaps, if the mother can afford to pay for it all on her own, the daughter can be allowed to enter pageants when she’s a bit older and can actually make the decision for herself. We would love to hear your thoughts on this topic in the comments below, pandas. Would you ever let your daughter enter a pageant?
Many readers agreed that the father has every right to voice his opinion and that he isn’t obligated to fund his daughter’s participation in pageants
However, other readers weren’t sure what to think, nothing that the issue may be more complicated than we know
I can't really understand people saying "ask your kid, maybe she wants to take part in it". Well if something is so wrong and creepy would you still let a 6yo kid do this because that's what she wants? That's not how parenting works...
Exact my thoughts! I had a lot of wishes and ideas as a kid and in hindsight I'm happy they decided against a lot of them. That's parenting. As an adult you have to make the final decisions, because children lack the experience to navigate through the world.
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NTA. I understand that a little girl may want to prance around in a beautiful *princess dress* and wear makeup and such. I get it. But as a parent I would never let a daughter participate in a pagent bc it sexualises girls and I think it's an unhealthy environment for kids in general. We want to raise our children to be confident and love themselves and this doesn't help...
I couldn't agree more! At that age, I have a feeling the girl is more excited simply to wear a fancy dress or play dress-up. A better idea would be to let her gather some friends for a fun little party where they could all play dress-up, maybe make their own little crowns with flowers and sparkles, and eat cupcakes. Hell...I kind of want a party like that! 😂
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The worst thing about these child beauty pageants is the twisted beliefs that they instill in a 6 y.o. little girl. Children (especially at such young age) think in black & white. Since they get appreciation and praise due to their appearance, they'll start to believe that this is what they need to showcase, in order to get the same appreciation later in life. I had such a classmate in highschool (and she was 15, not 6). She had won several beauty pageants (her parents encouraged her because of the money.) She was displaying sexy outfits and heavy make-up as these gave her "validation" and made her the center of attention; everything else (school, friends, family) was secondary. Do you really want that for your daughter?
I agree with you. Plus he should see a lawyer and find out what his rights are. I don't believe he has no say in this. I definitely would not tell him to stop the support payments. That's entirely wrong.
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Back when I worked in childcare I caught two six year olds playing a game involving tying string around their necks and trying to attach the other end to an overhead water downpipe, and they didn't get it when I screamed "NO!" and sprinted over to put a stop to it. In other words, six year olds think a lot of things are a good idea which really REALLY aren't. So even if this one said yes to one of those disgusting pageants the adults involved should have the sense to say no.
NTA, the idea of kids' beauty pageants is disgusting. I don't doubt that a 6 yo girl might be on board with it, she's 6. she sees a bright sparkly picture and she likes it. She comprehends neither the amount of pressure and objectification those kids are going through, nor creepy connotations we can sense as adults. She doesn't know better. But her parents should.
I hate the idea of "beauty" pageants at all, especially for young people. Another thing - if the mother thinks the child is going to "earn money" doing this she's ill advised. People come out of these in the negatives, money wise, with trophies and tiaras, maybe, but the "earnings" are low. They're not going to get you rich, especially with what you have to put into them.
Well if mom forces dad to pay for everything, she'd get to pocket all the prize.
Load More Replies... Child beauty pageants are legal substitutes for child porn; they sexualize young children and attract the interest of child predators. They enforce rigid "norms" about female beauty and reinforce negative body images that lead to eating disorders. They place undue stress on children, and on parents, who may become abusive and controlling in order to get what they want out of their child's participation. France has banned child beauty pageants for children under the age of 16. They should be banned everywhere.
Which is weird given France hasn't yet established a minimum age of consent for sex and which has rape laws that demand women must fight back for it to be considered rape and a long cultural tradition of older literary figures preying on young girls and being socially accepted.
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NTA BUT: Dad needs to jump-start his self-confidence (to make decisions in his child's life), WHICH IS NOT BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF CHILD SUPPORT HE PAYS. Also: Even if daughter desperately wanted to take part, she couldn't, if only one parent disagrees. Joint custody, so there. She's 6! And pageants, hello? Disgusting sick predators that dress up children as prostitutes.
Dad needs to talk to a lawyer so he understands what his rights are under joint custody. He seems to think that he doesn't have any decision-making authority, but joint legal means both parents have equal decision-making ability. The parent the child lives with primarily usually makes most of the day to day decisions because it's logistically easier on everyone, but big decisions should absolutely be discussed and agreed on. If he doesn't start exercising his rights, a future court may decide that he essentially forfeited those rights.
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My aunt was a nightmare "stage mum" who forced her daughter into modelling, beauty contests, talent competitions - anything she could find, until my cousin ran away at age 17. 10 years later my cousin is a drug addict with 4 kids to different dads and works in a really seedy strip club. Her mum f@#$ed her up royally.
Absolutely not. Where I live child pageants are defined as abuse and therefore illegal. They are so for a reason. No. No context or further information needed - just straight up no. Which means NTA, naturally.
Uhh I just struggled with two 23 year olds having a 6 year old kid. No wonder they’re divorced
Actually, it sounded like they didn't even get that far, it mentioned engaged and living together.
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NTA south park did it best but child beauty pageants are messed up. Why can't she just keep doing gymnastics?
Because mom's Instagram will look much better with icky pageant pictures of her 6yr old dressed like a 23yr old ready for a night out than it would with her 6yr old dressed like a 6yr old doing gymnastics?
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OP is definitely NTA. A children's beauty pageant is a predator's smorgasbord, an excellent way to pick and stalk their victims. At 6 years of age, a child doesn't have the concept of danger; they merely see beauty pageants as an extended version of dressing up and playing make-believe. I can't imagine what motivates a parent to subject their children to such an exploitative situation, except possibly living vicariously through them. Besides the danger factor, if OP's daughter decides that she doesn't want to do pageants anymore, will she be allowed to quit? Or will her mother force her to continue, while missing out on a childhood? OP is correct in being opposed to this, and like it or not, he has a LOT of say in regards to the safety of his daughter. It sounds like he needs a lawyer and a court date, and soon, if he wants to put the kibosh on this. There's no telling what his ex might do.
NTA, in my opinion kids beauty pageants are p3d0 bait. (unless the kids aren't wearing makeup and dresses that are "too grown up" for them but I haven't seen a single one that doesn't do that so far)
My kids didn't do pageants, but one of my family members started competing in them as a teen. Pageants today are not the "Toddlers and Tiara" stereotype. The contestants of all ages are judged on interview skills, public speaking, community involvement, and poise, and they are a very physically diverse group. The little kids don't wear caked-on makeup any more, and the atmosphere seems to be supportive. That being said, I also wouldn't want my 6-year-old to be in a pageant, but would wait until she was a teenager.
All I read was "AITA for refusing to let my 6 year-old daughter enter a beauty pageant." That's all I needed to read to know NTA.
I agree with the father on this one. His ex should google Honey Boo Boo to see what could happen to a child in these pageants.
Pretty sure Honey Boo Boo's problem was her white trash mom who dated convicted pedophiles
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Have the child join a gymnastics competition, or take up dancing, or something else that's more an "activity" rather than a livestock show where the participants turn out to be small humans. Beauty pageants are scary... Showing off their fancy clothing is fun, even having their hair and makeup done is fun, for some and for some time. But . no. CHildren learning that their value is measured in how they look is creepy.
Mom has too much money and time. Probably does not work while Dad foots all the bills. dad needs to pay support and not buy houses or cars anymore. Do NOT support her behavior and take her a*s to Court. Let the judge know what is going on and that the mother may be putting the child into a dangerous situation and yes those things are dangerous. If you don't think people who harm a child go to just these types of events you are crazier then this mother.
Pretty sure no judge is going to give him greater custody rights cause mom wants to do child beauty pageants. Judges barely terminate rights for parents who are actually abusive to kids ( my brother had to fight to get his foster kids mom's rights terminated so they could be adopted AFTER she repeatedly let the kids be physically and sexually abused and the state still gave them back 3 times). And it sounds like dad doesn't really want to be involved in the day to day raising of the kid since all he does is holidays and phone calls. Also mom does the bulk of child rearing which itself is a job and no where does it say she doesn't work too. It just says he makes more than her ( likely cause a teen pregnancy torpedoed her earning potential)
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I call them Pedo Pick and Mix because they get to ogle at little kids and knock one off the wrist without having to risk being caught downloading kiddie fiddler photos. Child pageants should be banned. When you read and hear news stories of kids getting plastic surgery such as buttock and breast implants, well, I want the surgeon struck off for a start. Struck off a skyscraper with a baseball bat would be best
Never ever TA, who in sane mind would present his own child to pedophiles?
I think I would talk to my lawyer.. I see a female parent who has been parenting since she was 16/17. What is she missing in her life that she wants to live thru a child??
The child may find the idea of the beauty contests appealing, but she doesn't understand what that involves. Getting fitted for a dental appliance to cover up the gap where the two front teeth are missing. Hours spent traveling and just sitting around being bored. Spray tan and makeup, and can't do anything to mess it up. Learning how to pose and act onstage. Some kids may enjoy all of the activity, but many would miss the time that they could be kicking back on the weekend after a busy week in school.
Definitely NTA. At 23 he has bought the ex a house for her and the child they had when they were 17, has joint custody and pays child support. He may come from a rich family, he may just work really hard. I don’t care. If he is uncomfortable with this he has every right to say no. He also has the right to say no when the ex asks for extra money because she has spent the money he gives her on pageant fees, dresses, makeup, hair etc. He can still ensure his child is fed and clothed even if he is working away by ordering online deliveries. The mother will realise that she has a choice between pageants and available funds.
Exactly. All these saying with joint custody that he has no decision making with regard to what his child is allowed without his permission, people are mistaken. There is no reason he needs to agree to this and he's right. This woman sounds like she's just lazy and demanding and contributes little to the actual upbringing of her child except sitting home. He needs to advocate for his child, courts will support him in that believe me. He's not a parent who has not paid child support and has gone out of his way to be sure the child is comfortable. He's done an admirable job so far and he needs to keep pursuing that. The hell with her tell her to get a job and find something to do with her time and leave the child alone. Have you ever seen these pageant moms? They are trying to live through their children. They're not not concerned with the stress in competing. They take Mommy's ego and make a mint on that. Poor children
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Um, asking a 6-year-old to decide for herself is a horrible idea. Pageants for small children shouldn't a thing. If she wants to be a pretty princess save it for her birthday party.
If SHE wants to do it, get some of her friends together and let them all put on a pageant for the families. Having "grown up on the stage", I promise it'll be a MUCH more fun experience than a REAL beauty pageant.
How is it that you, a 23 year old, bought a car, a condo and also pay child support. What does the mother do? You do have a say in your daughters extra curricular activity. Stop paying so much.
Those things are definitely the kind of grooming the right wing always accuses the other side of doing. They sexualize children in very disgusting ways.
I think the mother is living through the daughter.SHE wants the acclaim, praise. SHE wants the travel, parties, socializing, to DRESS UP her daughter. Everything that goes with pageants.Ugh, our society is shallow enough. I can't think of ONE good thing about pageants that a girl couldn't get through Blue Birds, Brownies, church groups, activities at the library, music lessons. The poor NTA father! AND the daughter!
Aside from child beauty pageants being weird and gross...have you seen how some of the parents are with their kids? The kind of physical, mental, emotional strain, I mean. A lot of these parents act as if they're the ones participating in these contests!
There are parents like that in every sport too. Its hardly limited to pagents. Most Little League Baseball games have to remind parents not to scream at/ assault kids/ coaches and refs
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Just buy her some cool grown up dresses at Goodwill, and let her invite her first grade class mates over for a dress up party. I guarantee you that she will be so much happier with this kind of "beauty pageant." And she and her friends can do it over and over....even into their teens, when they make their own costumes, etc. Because the official commercial pageants are so exploitative. They teach self destructive values to young girls. They teach girls to see each other as enemies instead of as friends. And it the whole people pleasing garbage that it sets up between the mother and daughter is incredibly abusive.
I didn't read it all but imo all that needs to be said is, children shouldn't be pressured or forced into doing pageants by their parents/guardians. However, if a kid sees a pageant flier and asks if they can participate, unless your are in a position where you are unable to do so, you should let them them participate. The social experiences at those pageants can bring wonderful memories, but being forced into those kinds of social activities can also make them feel demoralized.
A 23 year old who bought someone else’s house and can afford to care for a child and themselves? What the heck does he do?
No one can make you present you little girl infront of pedophiles. Not even the mother.
Part of parenting is explaining to the kid why some choices are not a good idea (age appropriate of course). She's way to young to understand these sorts of things. Young kids don't really understand why beauty pageants aren't a good idea. If she was a teenager, that would be different and could have a better adult like conversation. Little girls need to be little girls not wearing caked on make-up and dressing like a 20 something college girl on at a party.
It's sad that everyone's only reference to pageants is Toddlers and Tiaras. There are thousands of pageant systems out there that focus on volunteering and community service, academic excellence, public speaking, and sisterhood. I am not a fan of "glitz pageants" but I'd never presume that all pageants are like that. I'm a former director and I still judge and compete, as does my daughter. We've always chosen to participate in pageants that aligned with our values and beliefs. There's no shortage of quality programs out there awarding scholarship money to deserving young women and acknowledging the accomplishments of Ms. and Mrs. contestants. Until you've attended one and seen first hand what wonderful opportunities they offer, please do not lump them altogether as bad.
An adult woman can make a decision 4 herself but a child cannot. If a parent is putting a little one in a pageant, that is all about the parents low self esteem and need 4 attention and validation. A child wouldn't know about beauty pageants unless someone is prepping or promoting him or her. Kids love to dress up and have fun. Let that be enough for the child.....and u the parent.
NTA, and this may be something that needs to be brought up before his family-court judge that oversees the custody and child support.
Okay so I’m trying to stay neutral. I don’t think that some pageants are bad but I also believe both parents should be on board. This article is extremely bias and the author really doesn’t know enough about pageants to be writing on the topic. For example, high glitz pageants are the only ones that require fake teeth (which look ridiculous btw) a full face of make up, etc. Natural and most semi glitz do not allow that. For the younger girls up to 6 the shoes are typically just plain white Mary Jane flats. They’re no different than what a little girl would wear to church on Sunday. My daughter is 5. She has been in 3. She has proved what the majority of you are saying completely wrong. She competed with minimal experience against other little girls who’s mothers had paid for pageant coaching and fake teeth and hair. My daughter had none of that. She went on stage and was just herself and she beat them all but one.
Absolutely NTA. I'm a guy and I have a visceral repulsion against beauty pageants for kids, and I don't even have any kids. If an adult woman decides she wants to participate in a beauty pageant, that's fine, sort of. However, I strongly believe there's a real danger that what children in pageants will learn is that they should expect to be objectified - before they've even become adults. These shows ought to have been outlawed years ago.
I dislike the idea of underage pagent where people judge how attractive you are. Competition for gymnastics I feel is better. I'm sure there are creepy people there too but it's not the feature point of the whole thing, lol.
You are aware of massive sex abuse scandals within competitive gymnastics right? ( Google Larry Nassar if you aren't) It certainly appears plenty of pedos show up in the gymnastics world and frequently enjoy institutional protection.
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I'm not sure whr u live, but in Canada joint custody means both parents hve equal decision making power legally regarding their child's activities, regardless of whr the child resides. Custody arrangements & residency arrangements r not the same thing. If u don't want ur daughter participating in this activity, & talking w ur ex isn't wrking, you still hve legal avenues. Re child support payments, ur ex can not force u to pay more, jst bc of an activity she chooses for ur child, if you r already paying the amount set by a judge, in accordance w ur income. She would hve to take u to court & explain why she needs more money. If it's not an essential activity, judge would most likely tell her that she needs to live within her means. Text her abt her registering ur daughter against ur will, & abt who will be paying fr the activity and all that comes w it. This wd become ur evidence that ex is asking for money for pageants, not asking for more money fr groceries, or othr essentials.
Find a lesser paying job closer to home, send the mother to work for her living, get equally involved in the rearing of your kid.
Nowhere does it say mom doesn't work. In fact she likely does as there is an income disparity. But it sounds like she is effectively parenting this kid alone except holidays and phone calls and having had a kid at 16 will have really hurt her chances for a good education and a well paying job since the bulk of childcare ( not to mention actually growing the baby) fell to her
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First of all, I would investigate whether he could get an injunction to prevent this. Secondly, OP didn't suggest stopping child support as some seem to think, but he should definitely make it clear that he will not give a cent towards pageant expenses, which will be huge btw. Perhaps he could suggest an alternative to his daughter, such as joining a circus school, callisthenics, etc
Don't stop the support however he may need to get an attorney/court involved. Joint custody but doesn't dictate what she can do when she is with mom. He can refuse for the weeks he has her but not mom. The money is already there in the cs which is where it will from. Just do NOT give any additional to it. As this will cost more than he pays in cs. One dress can be $1000s of dollars. If she wants to spend the food money on a dress. She will do it.
Yes, he can't dictate what happens on mom's time. If he wants to prevent something he will need to go to court and ask a judge to order it. Mom may want to be cautious with how she spends the child support. It's not common but I have seen judges order an accounting of how the money was spent. I've only heard of one case where the parent was required to pay the support money back (into an account monitored by the guardian ad litem, but she spent every penny on her and her bf and nothing on the child.
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Children beauty Pageants should really be classified as child exploitation. I never attended one, but I would bet half the audience are pedophiles and the other half relatives. Who wants to see children parading dressed as adults anyway? Even if the child expressed an interest in participating, that's what parents are for. We are supposed to know better.
Well I am from a small town and since before I was born there has been a little miss & miss "beauty pageant". It can go to further contests from there for the winners. I was in both when I was of age, and my daughters were both in little miss. It was their (& mine) to participate in the "miss" pageant. Both contests are on the same night in the same venue. So not all contests are for "getting to be the next STAR) they are fun and during the"prep" time before the contestants do activities together go places and have fun. All beauty pageants are not EVIL & SCANDALOUS... Promoting the"sexualization" of girls. And yes the young girls ASK to be a part. Can judge every one by the TV shows that just promote the terrible things that can and do happen
(1) See a lawyer - preferably the one who did your divorce. See what leverage the decree and your state's laws give you. (2) Your ex doesn't respect your opinion, but is there some one she does listen to? Bring your concerns to that person, and see what they can do. (3) If your ex goes forward with this, step up your contact with your daughter. Have conversations that will counter the message she'll be getting. Without mentioning the beauty contests, keep up themes such as looks are not a measure of self worth, not all forms of approval are equally valuable, her other interests like gymnastics are important and worthwhile, and in fact all the other things a father should be telling a daughter. (4) Grit your teeth, and go to the beauty contests and be supportive of her without being supportive of the event. (5) Don't express disapproval of the pageants to your daughter because she shouldn't have to choose between you and her mom. (6) Remember your ex isn't evil, just mistaken.
These are always posted by people like 20 years old who’ve been married for 5. These people are children themselves.
Not all children's pageants are glitz. There are natural pageants and service pageants a convo needs to be had.
Overreact much? The pageants are creepy but will probably be short lived. Most people vacation in a hobby, do it once or for a short time and then move on. I have spoken to lots of people who went skiing once or twice or waterskiing once, used to play piano, did chess tournaments, a season of a sports team or played in a rock band for a couple of months with much talk about next time or doing it again than never materializes. The bigger deal he makes, the more the ex will lean in. If she makes it to one, I 'd be surprised. If she does more than the then start worrying and visit a lawyer. Express your concerns about negative messages to the mom and shut up, she'll probably notice the toxic environment herself and give it up.
It sounds like he has largely abdicated responsibility for the bulk of the actual parenting ( mentions not being around, calling daughter a couple of times a week etc) but thinks because he pays child support he gets to pop in and demand his ex do or not do certain things because he doesn't like them. Whether pageants are good or not is not the issue here. If he wants that level of control over his daughter's life he needs to be much more actively involved and present. And legally pretty sure he has no leg to stand on
If he has shared legal custody, he absolutely has a leg to stand on. I spend so much time explaining to our clients that both parents have decision-making ability unless a judge says that they don't. Child support and visitation have nothing to do with legal custody (decision-making).
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Looks like the mother wants to raise a child just like her; pregnant when she is only 16 like she was
YTA for claiming 'I front all the costs so I should be able to decide!' You may make more money, but the mental and physical load of caring for your daughter day to day has value that is comparable if not more than your money. That said, NTA for not wanting your 6 year old to compete in those pageants. Do a quick search of "Where are they now?" contestants of an older show called Toddlers and Tiaras and see how that worked out. Why start your little girl, or any child for that matter, down a path of unattainable, unrealistic, misogynistic beauty standards that will F her up for life?? Beauty pageants being about 'scholarships and leadership skills' is absolute hogwash.
He should be able to decide which extracurriculars/hobbies he pays for. If the mom wants the beauty pageants so badly, she can pay for them.
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DO NOT PAY!!! She can't get a court order that would make you pay for beauty parents. If she uses the child support take her a*s back to court.
I can't really understand people saying "ask your kid, maybe she wants to take part in it". Well if something is so wrong and creepy would you still let a 6yo kid do this because that's what she wants? That's not how parenting works...
Exact my thoughts! I had a lot of wishes and ideas as a kid and in hindsight I'm happy they decided against a lot of them. That's parenting. As an adult you have to make the final decisions, because children lack the experience to navigate through the world.
Load More Replies... NTA. I understand that a little girl may want to prance around in a beautiful *princess dress* and wear makeup and such. I get it. But as a parent I would never let a daughter participate in a pagent bc it sexualises girls and I think it's an unhealthy environment for kids in general. We want to raise our children to be confident and love themselves and this doesn't help...
I couldn't agree more! At that age, I have a feeling the girl is more excited simply to wear a fancy dress or play dress-up. A better idea would be to let her gather some friends for a fun little party where they could all play dress-up, maybe make their own little crowns with flowers and sparkles, and eat cupcakes. Hell...I kind of want a party like that! 😂
Load More Replies... The worst thing about these child beauty pageants is the twisted beliefs that they instill in a 6 y.o. little girl. Children (especially at such young age) think in black & white. Since they get appreciation and praise due to their appearance, they'll start to believe that this is what they need to showcase, in order to get the same appreciation later in life. I had such a classmate in highschool (and she was 15, not 6). She had won several beauty pageants (her parents encouraged her because of the money.) She was displaying sexy outfits and heavy make-up as these gave her "validation" and made her the center of attention; everything else (school, friends, family) was secondary. Do you really want that for your daughter?
I agree with you. Plus he should see a lawyer and find out what his rights are. I don't believe he has no say in this. I definitely would not tell him to stop the support payments. That's entirely wrong.
Load More Replies... Back when I worked in childcare I caught two six year olds playing a game involving tying string around their necks and trying to attach the other end to an overhead water downpipe, and they didn't get it when I screamed "NO!" and sprinted over to put a stop to it. In other words, six year olds think a lot of things are a good idea which really REALLY aren't. So even if this one said yes to one of those disgusting pageants the adults involved should have the sense to say no.
NTA, the idea of kids' beauty pageants is disgusting. I don't doubt that a 6 yo girl might be on board with it, she's 6. she sees a bright sparkly picture and she likes it. She comprehends neither the amount of pressure and objectification those kids are going through, nor creepy connotations we can sense as adults. She doesn't know better. But her parents should.
I hate the idea of "beauty" pageants at all, especially for young people. Another thing - if the mother thinks the child is going to "earn money" doing this she's ill advised. People come out of these in the negatives, money wise, with trophies and tiaras, maybe, but the "earnings" are low. They're not going to get you rich, especially with what you have to put into them.
Well if mom forces dad to pay for everything, she'd get to pocket all the prize.
Load More Replies... Child beauty pageants are legal substitutes for child porn; they sexualize young children and attract the interest of child predators. They enforce rigid "norms" about female beauty and reinforce negative body images that lead to eating disorders. They place undue stress on children, and on parents, who may become abusive and controlling in order to get what they want out of their child's participation. France has banned child beauty pageants for children under the age of 16. They should be banned everywhere.
Which is weird given France hasn't yet established a minimum age of consent for sex and which has rape laws that demand women must fight back for it to be considered rape and a long cultural tradition of older literary figures preying on young girls and being socially accepted.
Load More Replies... NTA BUT: Dad needs to jump-start his self-confidence (to make decisions in his child's life), WHICH IS NOT BASED ON THE AMOUNT OF CHILD SUPPORT HE PAYS. Also: Even if daughter desperately wanted to take part, she couldn't, if only one parent disagrees. Joint custody, so there. She's 6! And pageants, hello? Disgusting sick predators that dress up children as prostitutes.
Dad needs to talk to a lawyer so he understands what his rights are under joint custody. He seems to think that he doesn't have any decision-making authority, but joint legal means both parents have equal decision-making ability. The parent the child lives with primarily usually makes most of the day to day decisions because it's logistically easier on everyone, but big decisions should absolutely be discussed and agreed on. If he doesn't start exercising his rights, a future court may decide that he essentially forfeited those rights.
Load More Replies... My aunt was a nightmare "stage mum" who forced her daughter into modelling, beauty contests, talent competitions - anything she could find, until my cousin ran away at age 17. 10 years later my cousin is a drug addict with 4 kids to different dads and works in a really seedy strip club. Her mum f@#$ed her up royally.
Absolutely not. Where I live child pageants are defined as abuse and therefore illegal. They are so for a reason. No. No context or further information needed - just straight up no. Which means NTA, naturally.
Uhh I just struggled with two 23 year olds having a 6 year old kid. No wonder they’re divorced
Actually, it sounded like they didn't even get that far, it mentioned engaged and living together.
Load More Replies... NTA south park did it best but child beauty pageants are messed up. Why can't she just keep doing gymnastics?
Because mom's Instagram will look much better with icky pageant pictures of her 6yr old dressed like a 23yr old ready for a night out than it would with her 6yr old dressed like a 6yr old doing gymnastics?
Load More Replies... OP is definitely NTA. A children's beauty pageant is a predator's smorgasbord, an excellent way to pick and stalk their victims. At 6 years of age, a child doesn't have the concept of danger; they merely see beauty pageants as an extended version of dressing up and playing make-believe. I can't imagine what motivates a parent to subject their children to such an exploitative situation, except possibly living vicariously through them. Besides the danger factor, if OP's daughter decides that she doesn't want to do pageants anymore, will she be allowed to quit? Or will her mother force her to continue, while missing out on a childhood? OP is correct in being opposed to this, and like it or not, he has a LOT of say in regards to the safety of his daughter. It sounds like he needs a lawyer and a court date, and soon, if he wants to put the kibosh on this. There's no telling what his ex might do.
NTA, in my opinion kids beauty pageants are p3d0 bait. (unless the kids aren't wearing makeup and dresses that are "too grown up" for them but I haven't seen a single one that doesn't do that so far)
My kids didn't do pageants, but one of my family members started competing in them as a teen. Pageants today are not the "Toddlers and Tiara" stereotype. The contestants of all ages are judged on interview skills, public speaking, community involvement, and poise, and they are a very physically diverse group. The little kids don't wear caked-on makeup any more, and the atmosphere seems to be supportive. That being said, I also wouldn't want my 6-year-old to be in a pageant, but would wait until she was a teenager.
All I read was "AITA for refusing to let my 6 year-old daughter enter a beauty pageant." That's all I needed to read to know NTA.
I agree with the father on this one. His ex should google Honey Boo Boo to see what could happen to a child in these pageants.
Pretty sure Honey Boo Boo's problem was her white trash mom who dated convicted pedophiles
Load More Replies... Have the child join a gymnastics competition, or take up dancing, or something else that's more an "activity" rather than a livestock show where the participants turn out to be small humans. Beauty pageants are scary... Showing off their fancy clothing is fun, even having their hair and makeup done is fun, for some and for some time. But . no. CHildren learning that their value is measured in how they look is creepy.
Mom has too much money and time. Probably does not work while Dad foots all the bills. dad needs to pay support and not buy houses or cars anymore. Do NOT support her behavior and take her a*s to Court. Let the judge know what is going on and that the mother may be putting the child into a dangerous situation and yes those things are dangerous. If you don't think people who harm a child go to just these types of events you are crazier then this mother.
Pretty sure no judge is going to give him greater custody rights cause mom wants to do child beauty pageants. Judges barely terminate rights for parents who are actually abusive to kids ( my brother had to fight to get his foster kids mom's rights terminated so they could be adopted AFTER she repeatedly let the kids be physically and sexually abused and the state still gave them back 3 times). And it sounds like dad doesn't really want to be involved in the day to day raising of the kid since all he does is holidays and phone calls. Also mom does the bulk of child rearing which itself is a job and no where does it say she doesn't work too. It just says he makes more than her ( likely cause a teen pregnancy torpedoed her earning potential)
Load More Replies... I call them Pedo Pick and Mix because they get to ogle at little kids and knock one off the wrist without having to risk being caught downloading kiddie fiddler photos. Child pageants should be banned. When you read and hear news stories of kids getting plastic surgery such as buttock and breast implants, well, I want the surgeon struck off for a start. Struck off a skyscraper with a baseball bat would be best
Never ever TA, who in sane mind would present his own child to pedophiles?
I think I would talk to my lawyer.. I see a female parent who has been parenting since she was 16/17. What is she missing in her life that she wants to live thru a child??
The child may find the idea of the beauty contests appealing, but she doesn't understand what that involves. Getting fitted for a dental appliance to cover up the gap where the two front teeth are missing. Hours spent traveling and just sitting around being bored. Spray tan and makeup, and can't do anything to mess it up. Learning how to pose and act onstage. Some kids may enjoy all of the activity, but many would miss the time that they could be kicking back on the weekend after a busy week in school.
Definitely NTA. At 23 he has bought the ex a house for her and the child they had when they were 17, has joint custody and pays child support. He may come from a rich family, he may just work really hard. I don’t care. If he is uncomfortable with this he has every right to say no. He also has the right to say no when the ex asks for extra money because she has spent the money he gives her on pageant fees, dresses, makeup, hair etc. He can still ensure his child is fed and clothed even if he is working away by ordering online deliveries. The mother will realise that she has a choice between pageants and available funds.
Exactly. All these saying with joint custody that he has no decision making with regard to what his child is allowed without his permission, people are mistaken. There is no reason he needs to agree to this and he's right. This woman sounds like she's just lazy and demanding and contributes little to the actual upbringing of her child except sitting home. He needs to advocate for his child, courts will support him in that believe me. He's not a parent who has not paid child support and has gone out of his way to be sure the child is comfortable. He's done an admirable job so far and he needs to keep pursuing that. The hell with her tell her to get a job and find something to do with her time and leave the child alone. Have you ever seen these pageant moms? They are trying to live through their children. They're not not concerned with the stress in competing. They take Mommy's ego and make a mint on that. Poor children
Load More Replies... Um, asking a 6-year-old to decide for herself is a horrible idea. Pageants for small children shouldn't a thing. If she wants to be a pretty princess save it for her birthday party.
If SHE wants to do it, get some of her friends together and let them all put on a pageant for the families. Having "grown up on the stage", I promise it'll be a MUCH more fun experience than a REAL beauty pageant.
How is it that you, a 23 year old, bought a car, a condo and also pay child support. What does the mother do? You do have a say in your daughters extra curricular activity. Stop paying so much.
Those things are definitely the kind of grooming the right wing always accuses the other side of doing. They sexualize children in very disgusting ways.
I think the mother is living through the daughter.SHE wants the acclaim, praise. SHE wants the travel, parties, socializing, to DRESS UP her daughter. Everything that goes with pageants.Ugh, our society is shallow enough. I can't think of ONE good thing about pageants that a girl couldn't get through Blue Birds, Brownies, church groups, activities at the library, music lessons. The poor NTA father! AND the daughter!
Aside from child beauty pageants being weird and gross...have you seen how some of the parents are with their kids? The kind of physical, mental, emotional strain, I mean. A lot of these parents act as if they're the ones participating in these contests!
There are parents like that in every sport too. Its hardly limited to pagents. Most Little League Baseball games have to remind parents not to scream at/ assault kids/ coaches and refs
Load More Replies... Just buy her some cool grown up dresses at Goodwill, and let her invite her first grade class mates over for a dress up party. I guarantee you that she will be so much happier with this kind of "beauty pageant." And she and her friends can do it over and over....even into their teens, when they make their own costumes, etc. Because the official commercial pageants are so exploitative. They teach self destructive values to young girls. They teach girls to see each other as enemies instead of as friends. And it the whole people pleasing garbage that it sets up between the mother and daughter is incredibly abusive.
I didn't read it all but imo all that needs to be said is, children shouldn't be pressured or forced into doing pageants by their parents/guardians. However, if a kid sees a pageant flier and asks if they can participate, unless your are in a position where you are unable to do so, you should let them them participate. The social experiences at those pageants can bring wonderful memories, but being forced into those kinds of social activities can also make them feel demoralized.
A 23 year old who bought someone else’s house and can afford to care for a child and themselves? What the heck does he do?
No one can make you present you little girl infront of pedophiles. Not even the mother.
Part of parenting is explaining to the kid why some choices are not a good idea (age appropriate of course). She's way to young to understand these sorts of things. Young kids don't really understand why beauty pageants aren't a good idea. If she was a teenager, that would be different and could have a better adult like conversation. Little girls need to be little girls not wearing caked on make-up and dressing like a 20 something college girl on at a party.
It's sad that everyone's only reference to pageants is Toddlers and Tiaras. There are thousands of pageant systems out there that focus on volunteering and community service, academic excellence, public speaking, and sisterhood. I am not a fan of "glitz pageants" but I'd never presume that all pageants are like that. I'm a former director and I still judge and compete, as does my daughter. We've always chosen to participate in pageants that aligned with our values and beliefs. There's no shortage of quality programs out there awarding scholarship money to deserving young women and acknowledging the accomplishments of Ms. and Mrs. contestants. Until you've attended one and seen first hand what wonderful opportunities they offer, please do not lump them altogether as bad.
An adult woman can make a decision 4 herself but a child cannot. If a parent is putting a little one in a pageant, that is all about the parents low self esteem and need 4 attention and validation. A child wouldn't know about beauty pageants unless someone is prepping or promoting him or her. Kids love to dress up and have fun. Let that be enough for the child.....and u the parent.
NTA, and this may be something that needs to be brought up before his family-court judge that oversees the custody and child support.
Okay so I’m trying to stay neutral. I don’t think that some pageants are bad but I also believe both parents should be on board. This article is extremely bias and the author really doesn’t know enough about pageants to be writing on the topic. For example, high glitz pageants are the only ones that require fake teeth (which look ridiculous btw) a full face of make up, etc. Natural and most semi glitz do not allow that. For the younger girls up to 6 the shoes are typically just plain white Mary Jane flats. They’re no different than what a little girl would wear to church on Sunday. My daughter is 5. She has been in 3. She has proved what the majority of you are saying completely wrong. She competed with minimal experience against other little girls who’s mothers had paid for pageant coaching and fake teeth and hair. My daughter had none of that. She went on stage and was just herself and she beat them all but one.
Absolutely NTA. I'm a guy and I have a visceral repulsion against beauty pageants for kids, and I don't even have any kids. If an adult woman decides she wants to participate in a beauty pageant, that's fine, sort of. However, I strongly believe there's a real danger that what children in pageants will learn is that they should expect to be objectified - before they've even become adults. These shows ought to have been outlawed years ago.
I dislike the idea of underage pagent where people judge how attractive you are. Competition for gymnastics I feel is better. I'm sure there are creepy people there too but it's not the feature point of the whole thing, lol.
You are aware of massive sex abuse scandals within competitive gymnastics right? ( Google Larry Nassar if you aren't) It certainly appears plenty of pedos show up in the gymnastics world and frequently enjoy institutional protection.
Load More Replies... I'm not sure whr u live, but in Canada joint custody means both parents hve equal decision making power legally regarding their child's activities, regardless of whr the child resides. Custody arrangements & residency arrangements r not the same thing. If u don't want ur daughter participating in this activity, & talking w ur ex isn't wrking, you still hve legal avenues. Re child support payments, ur ex can not force u to pay more, jst bc of an activity she chooses for ur child, if you r already paying the amount set by a judge, in accordance w ur income. She would hve to take u to court & explain why she needs more money. If it's not an essential activity, judge would most likely tell her that she needs to live within her means. Text her abt her registering ur daughter against ur will, & abt who will be paying fr the activity and all that comes w it. This wd become ur evidence that ex is asking for money for pageants, not asking for more money fr groceries, or othr essentials.
Find a lesser paying job closer to home, send the mother to work for her living, get equally involved in the rearing of your kid.
Nowhere does it say mom doesn't work. In fact she likely does as there is an income disparity. But it sounds like she is effectively parenting this kid alone except holidays and phone calls and having had a kid at 16 will have really hurt her chances for a good education and a well paying job since the bulk of childcare ( not to mention actually growing the baby) fell to her
Load More Replies... First of all, I would investigate whether he could get an injunction to prevent this. Secondly, OP didn't suggest stopping child support as some seem to think, but he should definitely make it clear that he will not give a cent towards pageant expenses, which will be huge btw. Perhaps he could suggest an alternative to his daughter, such as joining a circus school, callisthenics, etc
Don't stop the support however he may need to get an attorney/court involved. Joint custody but doesn't dictate what she can do when she is with mom. He can refuse for the weeks he has her but not mom. The money is already there in the cs which is where it will from. Just do NOT give any additional to it. As this will cost more than he pays in cs. One dress can be $1000s of dollars. If she wants to spend the food money on a dress. She will do it.
Yes, he can't dictate what happens on mom's time. If he wants to prevent something he will need to go to court and ask a judge to order it. Mom may want to be cautious with how she spends the child support. It's not common but I have seen judges order an accounting of how the money was spent. I've only heard of one case where the parent was required to pay the support money back (into an account monitored by the guardian ad litem, but she spent every penny on her and her bf and nothing on the child.
Load More Replies... Children beauty Pageants should really be classified as child exploitation. I never attended one, but I would bet half the audience are pedophiles and the other half relatives. Who wants to see children parading dressed as adults anyway? Even if the child expressed an interest in participating, that's what parents are for. We are supposed to know better.
Well I am from a small town and since before I was born there has been a little miss & miss "beauty pageant". It can go to further contests from there for the winners. I was in both when I was of age, and my daughters were both in little miss. It was their (& mine) to participate in the "miss" pageant. Both contests are on the same night in the same venue. So not all contests are for "getting to be the next STAR) they are fun and during the"prep" time before the contestants do activities together go places and have fun. All beauty pageants are not EVIL & SCANDALOUS... Promoting the"sexualization" of girls. And yes the young girls ASK to be a part. Can judge every one by the TV shows that just promote the terrible things that can and do happen
(1) See a lawyer - preferably the one who did your divorce. See what leverage the decree and your state's laws give you. (2) Your ex doesn't respect your opinion, but is there some one she does listen to? Bring your concerns to that person, and see what they can do. (3) If your ex goes forward with this, step up your contact with your daughter. Have conversations that will counter the message she'll be getting. Without mentioning the beauty contests, keep up themes such as looks are not a measure of self worth, not all forms of approval are equally valuable, her other interests like gymnastics are important and worthwhile, and in fact all the other things a father should be telling a daughter. (4) Grit your teeth, and go to the beauty contests and be supportive of her without being supportive of the event. (5) Don't express disapproval of the pageants to your daughter because she shouldn't have to choose between you and her mom. (6) Remember your ex isn't evil, just mistaken.
These are always posted by people like 20 years old who’ve been married for 5. These people are children themselves.
Not all children's pageants are glitz. There are natural pageants and service pageants a convo needs to be had.
Overreact much? The pageants are creepy but will probably be short lived. Most people vacation in a hobby, do it once or for a short time and then move on. I have spoken to lots of people who went skiing once or twice or waterskiing once, used to play piano, did chess tournaments, a season of a sports team or played in a rock band for a couple of months with much talk about next time or doing it again than never materializes. The bigger deal he makes, the more the ex will lean in. If she makes it to one, I 'd be surprised. If she does more than the then start worrying and visit a lawyer. Express your concerns about negative messages to the mom and shut up, she'll probably notice the toxic environment herself and give it up.
It sounds like he has largely abdicated responsibility for the bulk of the actual parenting ( mentions not being around, calling daughter a couple of times a week etc) but thinks because he pays child support he gets to pop in and demand his ex do or not do certain things because he doesn't like them. Whether pageants are good or not is not the issue here. If he wants that level of control over his daughter's life he needs to be much more actively involved and present. And legally pretty sure he has no leg to stand on
If he has shared legal custody, he absolutely has a leg to stand on. I spend so much time explaining to our clients that both parents have decision-making ability unless a judge says that they don't. Child support and visitation have nothing to do with legal custody (decision-making).
Load More Replies... Looks like the mother wants to raise a child just like her; pregnant when she is only 16 like she was
YTA for claiming 'I front all the costs so I should be able to decide!' You may make more money, but the mental and physical load of caring for your daughter day to day has value that is comparable if not more than your money. That said, NTA for not wanting your 6 year old to compete in those pageants. Do a quick search of "Where are they now?" contestants of an older show called Toddlers and Tiaras and see how that worked out. Why start your little girl, or any child for that matter, down a path of unattainable, unrealistic, misogynistic beauty standards that will F her up for life?? Beauty pageants being about 'scholarships and leadership skills' is absolute hogwash.
He should be able to decide which extracurriculars/hobbies he pays for. If the mom wants the beauty pageants so badly, she can pay for them.
Load More Replies... DO NOT PAY!!! She can't get a court order that would make you pay for beauty parents. If she uses the child support take her a*s back to court.
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