“Don’t Have Children You Can’t Fully Afford”: 40 People Share Their Most Controversial Money Tips
Esther Mukumbo is a mom from South Africa, trying to find her way toward financial independence. She has over 10 years of experience in Development Finance and Banking and is a director at a black women-owned investment company she co-founded called Malkia Invest.
While trying to achieve her goals, Esther also regularly posts on social media and one of her latest tweets has gone viral. In it, the woman asked everyone to share their most controversial takes on personal finance, and people happily obliged.
This prompted an interesting discussion on money, a subject many often avoid in the real world, fearing making a fool of themselves or saying something that would trigger those around them. Yay the internet!
Image credits: EMukumbo
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HA!!! HERE IT IS!!! The Terry Pratchett Sam Vimes Boots theory I mentioned before!
However, let's challenge this thread from a different perspective. Not because it's inherently wrong—it might allow us to get a better understanding of what these people are talking about. As Kristin Wong pointed out in The New York Times, traditional personal finance advice is often tossed around in blanket statements. While there's nothing wrong with the actual advice in theory, the way we deal with money in reality is often much more nuanced.
Consumer spending is increasing and unemployment rates have fallen, but wage growth has been slow, and income inequality is still very much a problem. With the situation changing so fast and drastically, what can we actually do about money?
How is this controversial? They absolutely should not exist. You don’t become a billionaire by paying people fair wages and a fair amount of tax. You become one by playing the system and cheating people out a liveable wage.
This is true. Terry Pratchett's Sam Vimes had a GREAT little commentary on that.... too darn true.
"I'm interested in the causes and consequences of inequality, particularly from a labor market perspective," Kate Bahn, director of labor market policy and an economist at the research organization Washington Center for Equitable Growth, told Wong. Dr. Bahn argued there's not enough emphasis on the larger structural barriers that make people's financial lives difficult. Personal finance might sometimes even further de-emphasize these barriers, she said.
There is, for example, a concept called labor monopsony, which is what happens when a single hiring entity gains control over the workforce.
"So employers will take advantage and pay workers less because there's nowhere else to go," Dr. Bahn said. "It's geographically remote areas where there may be only one big employer, and there's no other company to work for, so that company can pay whatever they want because workers can’t say, 'Screw this,' and go somewhere else."
Or better yet: Don't police how other people spend their money. Unless they ask you directly, it's literally none of your business. How would you like it if people commented and judged you on your purchases? Don't do it to others.
Get rid of religion, it is only about control and money. Controlling YOU and YOUR money.
Dr. Bahn's argument is that personal finance is necessary, but not quite sufficient. It's put forth as a solution when what we really need is policy, she said, and places priority on personal choice over issues that are ultimately out of most people's control.
But there are still plenty of folks who think that personal finance remains helpful because it is a way to share information that many are discouraged from seeking. "People have criticized financial education, saying it doesn't work because people are still making mistakes," Billy Hensley, president and CEO at a private nonprofit, National Endowment for Financial Education, also told Wong. "Education can't help access jobs, but it can help people navigate the system as it exists."
You also can't buy in bulk, transport far for savings, or afford an annual subscription for discount stores or Prime.
In... the USA... yes. I remember well the incredulous conversation I had when I was in my early 20s with an American friend. I laughed and asked him something like 'Ha ha.. yeah, sure, so what happens if you break your leg on vacation?" and he said "I dunno... pray... and beg?" - then I realized he was serious. And... the conversation got worse from there... it took me a WHILE to truly accept he wasn't exaggerating.
But when you think about it, how do you even measure the effectiveness of personal finance? After all, so much of it is... personal.
Rachel Schneider, a researcher and co-author of The Financial Diaries: How American Families Cope in a World of Uncertainty, tried to look at how people handle money in the real world. She and her co-author, Jonathan Morduch, a researcher and professor at N.Y.U., worked with over 200 families for a year, gathering information on every dollar that went in and out of their homes.
Our job offered " free 30 talk with a financial planner" He determined that I would have to put 1800 a month towards retirement to make the magical 1 million mark. That would have left me with $800 a month to live. And why do i need a million if i am living off 45,000 a year now ?
True. Very true. We don't own a car. There was a time we had to take the bus home from a big grocery haul. It was cheaper to get a ton of food all at once than spend bus/cab fare multiple times. So I'd be waddling down the block from the bus stop carrying 6 bags on each hand. Sometimes having to go back and forth up and down the block lol. Laundry day meant gathering up 3 large bags, putting them on the wagon and walking it all down to the laundromat. There was no car to just drive the kid to school. Rain, sun, ice and snow we had to walk her there and back, sometimes using the wagon or sled. Cleaning meant actually scrubbing and dusting, not using all that fancy stuff. We had slumlords so we had to do a lot of repairs ourselves or wait until a cheap, careless contractor came to do a temporary patch job. I was in way better shape back then than I am now lol.
"A huge finding was the level of volatility people experience in their financial lives over the course of a year," Ms. Schneider explained.
Although she expected to find income volatility year to year, she was surprised to see how widely income varied within the year, too. A subject could be above the poverty line for the year overall, but that same person could fall below the poverty line in any given month.
My mom has a serious problem with this. She's super finicky about interior/exterior appearances and every boyfriend she's moved in with, she's "helped" with redecorating and renovating. Each time I just shake my head and roll my eyes when she's not looking. Keep telling her to just stop and stop moving in with men just because she doesn't feel comfortable being a "single woman living on her own".
This is a personal matter between the family. There are some well-to-do parents who have no problems kicking their 18 year old to the curb without anything to survive on. And then there are the other parents, regardless of how well-off or not, who know how hard it is for the single, young folk to get by on their own and are okay with letting them remain at home to save money. It's no one else's business. You do you, people. If you're okay with your kids living at home, then that's you're business. If you want to kick them out of the nest, that's you're business.
"This has a huge impact on how people deal with money," Schneider said. "The economy has been growing and the unemployment rate is relatively low and declining, yet we’re not seeing that growth and prosperity getting distributed down to the bottom."
While Schneider agreed that financial education is necessary and can be useful, she also worried that overemphasizing it as a solution to financial challenges shifts responsibility away from our economy's major players (like banks that offer subprime predatory loans or companies that take advantage of workers).
Unless you have been in those shoes, you can't know how to advise someone on living in them.
Disability benefits are there to cover the extra costs associated with having a disability/being disabled. Do you have to keep the heating on 3/4 of the year because of kidney failure, because there's a cost to that. Do you have to eat food without certain niche ingredients and therefore spend additional money covering the cost of that. I spend additional money each month on petrol so I can get to places because the bus isn't suitable. Disabilities cost more.
One thing that both proponents and critics of financial education seem to find common ground on, however, is that if we're going to help people navigate the current system, the way we talk about money has to evolve.
Financial education should not be telling a person to do this and in this exact way or you’re a failure. We need to humanize the topic and try to acknowledge the individual.
Anyway saving is a myth, that is NOT how rich people get rich. Source: I am in the 1% in my country, own 3 cars, paying off two properties, have two servants, private schooling, etc. How did I do it? Sheer luck, and playing the stock market with spare cash.
Ex-Credit Union manager here. If you're married, you should at least tell your spouse you have your own acct. Most honest couples disclose that ahead of time. AND don't ask anymore questions. If they can't accept that then they have issues that will probably ruin your relationship eventually anyhow. In the event of death the spouse is usually the beneficiary anyway.
This. I keep saying to people let's say "he is paid X" instead of "he earns X". Generally a person in management or above does not earn anything, they are more or less email forwarding devices that forward instructions between upper management and staff. That's not work.
a child's happiness depends on money I would feel better (and the people at school insulting me too) if I coul take a shower when I want instead of "water is expensive and we only have one hot water balloon-storage/day so we'll have to take turns : for a family of three max MAX is 1 shower every three days :(
I love my credit union. Still some fees but not nearly as bad as banks!
"Financial literacy" is code for rich people wanting to believe that poverty only happens due to personal faults and not systemic injustice.
Youtubers and other platformers get a lot of help from friends and family to advertise, and those who really did it themselves took a lot of sacrifices many of us aren't willing to risk. All these ones saying they quit their jobs to focus on their channel for a couple never tell you how they were able to do to that. Same with the ones saying they tried working one office job, quit and vowed to never work for someone again. HOW?
I think it should be taught in secondary school, as not everyone goes on to university
I never knew how true this was until a year ago. If I end up not being able to go back to work (currently on leave with a medical issue), I may or may not get social security benefits. They say that I can work, even if it's a job with less pay and less hours. How am I supposed to live on working 20 hours a week at $10 or $15 an hour?? If I don't find the right treatment, I'm poor no matter what.
If you are bad at your job. Keep your head down and be nice. Less likely to get fired if everyone likes you.
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Yeah, you've got to get past the hiring manager who has NO IDEA if you're good at your job, when all they have is your job hopping resume. Of all the items on this list so far, I'm calling this one an idiot
I suppose you don't quit your current job until you secure one that pays more.
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If you've switched jobs five times in the last three years, someone may hire you, but it won't be me.
That will raise a few eyebrows and might be purely circumstantial to the field/industry and it's likely they're not remaining in the same position.
Whereas in NZ my friend stayed for 20 years, she got a pay rise every year and is on $100K, if she'd quit she'd start on less. IT industry. Weird way it works in the US then.
I don't believe there is anything wrong with staying at a company, especially if you're thriving with good pay increases.
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12 months isn't long enough in some jobs, in my experience it's been at least 2-3 years if it's a professional position. I'd rephrase this to say that when you have mastery of your work, if you can't then move up at your current employer, then job hunt, and don't be afraid to get a new job or switch employers, and get another job that's challenging again and grows your skills. That's how you move up these days. The days of staying with one company and moving up over the course of your career are mostly gone. I've had good luck with moving every 5 years. Long enough to show you aren't flaky but short enough to not delay progress too much.
I've worked for several companies and always worked hard and added value for the company. After 3-4 years, I was ready to move on. When they "couldn't" give me a raise or a promotion, I'd start looking for another job. In effect, I gave myself the raise and the promotion.
3-4 years isn't job hopping. In fact, what you're doing is perfectly fine and sensible. it's the advice to move on after *less than a year* that's stupid.
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I'm great at my job. Worked in the same industry for almost 8 years now. I certainly did NOT get a pay bump for changing companies, I took less money for a better opportunity at advancement. Job hopping every 6-12 months shows you are unreliable and a risk. Cost of training involved, money spent on equipment. Employers won't want to spend that on you if you are going to change jobs straight after training.
No, moving jobs so frequently is stressful. Won't necessarily raise your wage
Loyalty to your employer might respond to same sort of therapy that helps people leave any abusive relationship. Any company that makes a profit is a system by which employee are exploited by paying them less than the value of their labor.
This is so true. My SIL does this and it blows my mind! She has "leveled up" her salary 15K higher than mine in a field she didn't even go to school for in a matter of 1.5 years. Idk how she does it, I have been a dedicated employee, gained valuable experience and worked for 3-5 years to build my portfolio at each job I have had and it doesn't pay off. However I apply at 50+ jobs and barely get an interview, in that time, she has already accepted 2 jobs and left both!
Confidence and luck. If they can negotiate a higher starting salary it makes it easier to negotiate an even higher salary next time because there's a proven history. We had someone like that - starting salary in the middle of our range, having left their previous job after eight months. We were desperate to fill the position and they talked good in interview. That was the trick. And just as we discovered they didn't even know how to navigate any of the office programs, they "decided to move on". To our competitor (ha!) who paid them even more. It happened again at a different company and this time it was even part of the C-suite! Moving from a mere department head to CEO is the pinnacle of this technique. Got a golden parachute deal for when he screwed up after less than 4 months. Luck and confidence. I'm not saying this is the case for your SIL, but in my experience, anyone who is successful in this trick places the emphasis on the first syllable of my first word.
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My husband has done this before. He'll be at a job for a year or a little more and try to find something better. As a matter of fact, he just applied for a better position inside the same company after working there just over a year.
A year is about the cut off point for it to be considered job hopping. 12-15 months is enough time for you to have experienced every normal part of working that job and make the most of learning what you can. It's the 6-12 month bracket that makes this poor advice.
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I spent my entire career working for one company, because I loved my job and eventually worked my way up to good pay and exemplary benefits... I don't think this is the norm anymore. I did notice that the people who moved most rapidly up the ladder (while I stayed happily in my little niche) were the people who moved from department to department within the company... the person who started in the mail room, then applied for entry level in purchasing, was promoted to section supervisor, then applied for a job in the legal department... in the span of my career he went from mail clerk to vice president, so I know it does happen, but I was happy in my niche, and not interested in corporate climbing.
If you have dyscalculia that is a very annoying statement to hear. It's not like we can't learn it just takes longer, and not a lot of people have the patience to take the time to teach it to someone with math dyslexia. It's frustrating and easier to just give up. But it's not that we're ignorant. We want this knowledge.
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Being poor is not a moral failing, but not giving a s#it about the poor is.
My financial advice to my fellow Americans: STOP voting against your own interests! If we would all do this then UNEARNED income wouldn't be taxed at a lower rate than earned income in this country.
Absolutely. I'd vote many time more UP if I could
Load More Replies... Other advice to not take from Twitter: who to vote for; whether to get vaccinated; whether the earth is flat; etc.
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Most poor people are doing everything they can to get out of poverty. You can actually do everything "right" and still be poor. All you need is bad luck. You cannot change what country you come from, wish parents you have, etcetera. And even if you start out well, an accident or a serious health problem can tank your economy for life.
I think mine would be that high-speed internet is not a luxury. Even if you don't use Amazon or have a streaming video service, having high-speed internet at home is necessary for any number of reasons: job hunting, having school-age kids, working from home, the list could go on.
Everyone should be able to live a normal life an have a family. Instead of shaming poor people for having kids we should change society so kids don’t grow up in poverty.
Poverty is actually avoidable if you graduate hs, always have a job, don’t have children until you’re married. Literally the formula that will make poverty disappear And your problems are not solved by trying to vote for the government to steal from “the wealthy”. Stop obsessing about “the wealthy” and focus on your wealth. Free healthcare is a lie. Pay your own medical expenses and be an adult.
My rule always was, if I have to wear Walmart shoes I'm damn sure not buying you a pair $250.00. I told my boys if they wanted them I would pay 50 and they had to earn the rest. Same thing with phones. But our kids didn't get a phone til the turned 13. These 9yr olds with the latest iPhone makes me cringe! I grew up poor.. I mean poor! It shows lol but my kids work there buts off now at 19.20 and 22! Proud momma!
If you are unskilled labor, it doesn’t how much money you make, eventually they will find a way to pay you or someone else less because there are no barriers to someone entering the job. Always have a skill and continually upgrade your skills to stay ahead of automation and cheaper incoming labor.
a justice system but the game ended. Attitudes after the game ended: the "rich" who all thought they were smarter and more deserving of everyone else. It was by f*cking chance (or the organizers) that they got the gold tokens. The poor understood that the game was rigged and were quite vocal about how it was rigged. Those who represented the middle class really thought they stood a chance of being the winner and were totally clueless as to what the game was all about. They were mostly bewildered at all the fuss made by the poor.
Played a "game" one time. Class was split into several teams of 5 people. Tokens were handed out "randomly". Different colors were worth different amounts. There were a very few gold tokens that were worth a lot more. The object of the game was be the person who ended up with the most points from their tokens. Scores were posted. Token handouts happened more than once. Takeaways from the game: In the two teams with the least scores (the poor) would race back to the others with their hands open. What have we got? Then one person was selected by the team to get all of the tokens for the team, the rest got 0. Those who got the golden tokens each stood alone, peeking at their hands. Those who thought they were still in the running to win, but really were not, each played their own hands but stayed with their teams. Cheating was rampant but those running the game said, we can't interfere, the game has not mechanism to deal with it. The "poor" were starting to talk about
Can we please stop using the term canceled please? No one gets canceled you get held accountable to the words you say or write. I'm not sorry your opinions are not viewed by the masses as acceptable and maybe just maybe your views are not acceptable are wrong.
What is true, and what is POPULAR often have no overlap. This little corner of the internet is a prime example of that. Say anything at all that 10 or more people don't LIKE and away you go. Doesn't matter if it's true, doesn't even matter if it's offensive. That's the problem that people have with "cancel culture" not being held accountable for your actions or words, but being held accountable for what some random stranger parses your words to mean or assumes to be true. There are countless examples over the past several years, the most recent example of course being Johnny Depp.
Load More Replies... So glad you shared! I'll be well on my way to my Caribbean retirement in no time with that advice!
Load More Replies... Being poor is not a moral failing, but not giving a s#it about the poor is.
My financial advice to my fellow Americans: STOP voting against your own interests! If we would all do this then UNEARNED income wouldn't be taxed at a lower rate than earned income in this country.
Absolutely. I'd vote many time more UP if I could
Load More Replies... Other advice to not take from Twitter: who to vote for; whether to get vaccinated; whether the earth is flat; etc.
Load More Replies... Most poor people are doing everything they can to get out of poverty. You can actually do everything "right" and still be poor. All you need is bad luck. You cannot change what country you come from, wish parents you have, etcetera. And even if you start out well, an accident or a serious health problem can tank your economy for life.
I think mine would be that high-speed internet is not a luxury. Even if you don't use Amazon or have a streaming video service, having high-speed internet at home is necessary for any number of reasons: job hunting, having school-age kids, working from home, the list could go on.
Everyone should be able to live a normal life an have a family. Instead of shaming poor people for having kids we should change society so kids don’t grow up in poverty.
Poverty is actually avoidable if you graduate hs, always have a job, don’t have children until you’re married. Literally the formula that will make poverty disappear And your problems are not solved by trying to vote for the government to steal from “the wealthy”. Stop obsessing about “the wealthy” and focus on your wealth. Free healthcare is a lie. Pay your own medical expenses and be an adult.
My rule always was, if I have to wear Walmart shoes I'm damn sure not buying you a pair $250.00. I told my boys if they wanted them I would pay 50 and they had to earn the rest. Same thing with phones. But our kids didn't get a phone til the turned 13. These 9yr olds with the latest iPhone makes me cringe! I grew up poor.. I mean poor! It shows lol but my kids work there buts off now at 19.20 and 22! Proud momma!
If you are unskilled labor, it doesn’t how much money you make, eventually they will find a way to pay you or someone else less because there are no barriers to someone entering the job. Always have a skill and continually upgrade your skills to stay ahead of automation and cheaper incoming labor.
a justice system but the game ended. Attitudes after the game ended: the "rich" who all thought they were smarter and more deserving of everyone else. It was by f*cking chance (or the organizers) that they got the gold tokens. The poor understood that the game was rigged and were quite vocal about how it was rigged. Those who represented the middle class really thought they stood a chance of being the winner and were totally clueless as to what the game was all about. They were mostly bewildered at all the fuss made by the poor.
Played a "game" one time. Class was split into several teams of 5 people. Tokens were handed out "randomly". Different colors were worth different amounts. There were a very few gold tokens that were worth a lot more. The object of the game was be the person who ended up with the most points from their tokens. Scores were posted. Token handouts happened more than once. Takeaways from the game: In the two teams with the least scores (the poor) would race back to the others with their hands open. What have we got? Then one person was selected by the team to get all of the tokens for the team, the rest got 0. Those who got the golden tokens each stood alone, peeking at their hands. Those who thought they were still in the running to win, but really were not, each played their own hands but stayed with their teams. Cheating was rampant but those running the game said, we can't interfere, the game has not mechanism to deal with it. The "poor" were starting to talk about
Can we please stop using the term canceled please? No one gets canceled you get held accountable to the words you say or write. I'm not sorry your opinions are not viewed by the masses as acceptable and maybe just maybe your views are not acceptable are wrong.
What is true, and what is POPULAR often have no overlap. This little corner of the internet is a prime example of that. Say anything at all that 10 or more people don't LIKE and away you go. Doesn't matter if it's true, doesn't even matter if it's offensive. That's the problem that people have with "cancel culture" not being held accountable for your actions or words, but being held accountable for what some random stranger parses your words to mean or assumes to be true. There are countless examples over the past several years, the most recent example of course being Johnny Depp.
Load More Replies... So glad you shared! I'll be well on my way to my Caribbean retirement in no time with that advice!
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