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Esther Mukumbo is a mom from South Africa, trying to find her way toward financial independence. She has over 10 years of experience in Development Finance and Banking and is a director at a black women-owned investment company she co-founded called Malkia Invest.

While trying to achieve her goals, Esther also regularly posts on social media and one of her latest tweets has gone viral. In it, the woman asked everyone to share their most controversial takes on personal finance, and people happily obliged.

This prompted an interesting discussion on money, a subject many often avoid in the real world, fearing making a fool of themselves or saying something that would trigger those around them. Yay the internet!

Image credits: EMukumbo

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D. Pitbull
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

HA!!! HERE IT IS!!! The Terry Pratchett Sam Vimes Boots theory I mentioned before!

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However, let's challenge this thread from a different perspective. Not because it's inherently wrong—it might allow us to get a better understanding of what these people are talking about. As Kristin Wong pointed out in The New York Times, traditional personal finance advice is often tossed around in blanket statements. While there's nothing wrong with the actual advice in theory, the way we deal with money in reality is often much more nuanced.

Consumer spending is increasing and unemployment rates have fallen, but wage growth has been slow, and income inequality is still very much a problem. With the situation changing so fast and drastically, what can we actually do about money?

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Rabbit Carrot
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1 year ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How is this controversial? They absolutely should not exist. You don’t become a billionaire by paying people fair wages and a fair amount of tax. You become one by playing the system and cheating people out a liveable wage.

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D. Pitbull
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is true. Terry Pratchett's Sam Vimes had a GREAT little commentary on that.... too darn true.

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"I'm interested in the causes and consequences of inequality, particularly from a labor market perspective," Kate Bahn, director of labor market policy and an economist at the research organization Washington Center for Equitable Growth, told Wong. Dr. Bahn argued there's not enough emphasis on the larger structural barriers that make people's financial lives difficult. Personal finance might sometimes even further de-emphasize these barriers, she said.

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There is, for example, a concept called labor monopsony, which is what happens when a single hiring entity gains control over the workforce.

"So employers will take advantage and pay workers less because there's nowhere else to go," Dr. Bahn said. "It's geographically remote areas where there may be only one big employer, and there's no other company to work for, so that company can pay whatever they want because workers can’t say, 'Screw this,' and go somewhere else."

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Troux
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

YES to #2. "Start your own business" is advice that gets abused just as much as "Go to college." It's not for everyone, folks.

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Andy Acceber
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Or better yet: Don't police how other people spend their money. Unless they ask you directly, it's literally none of your business. How would you like it if people commented and judged you on your purchases? Don't do it to others.

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Swan
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I had very good grades at school where's he money they promised my I'd have if I worked hard? did I work hard for nothing? Do you just have to know rich people and they give you jobs... or not FILLON RENDS L'ARGENT!

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Wilko Lunenburg
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Get rid of religion, it is only about control and money. Controlling YOU and YOUR money.

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Dr. Bahn's argument is that personal finance is necessary, but not quite sufficient. It's put forth as a solution when what we really need is policy, she said, and places priority on personal choice over issues that are ultimately out of most people's control.

But there are still plenty of folks who think that personal finance remains helpful because it is a way to share information that many are discouraged from seeking. "People have criticized financial education, saying it doesn't work because people are still making mistakes," Billy Hensley, president and CEO at a private nonprofit, National Endowment for Financial Education, also told Wong. "Education can't help access jobs, but it can help people navigate the system as it exists."

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Andy Acceber
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You also can't buy in bulk, transport far for savings, or afford an annual subscription for discount stores or Prime.

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D. Pitbull
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

In... the USA... yes. I remember well the incredulous conversation I had when I was in my early 20s with an American friend. I laughed and asked him something like 'Ha ha.. yeah, sure, so what happens if you break your leg on vacation?" and he said "I dunno... pray... and beg?" - then I realized he was serious. And... the conversation got worse from there... it took me a WHILE to truly accept he wasn't exaggerating.

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Linda Lee
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes! The highest earner's compensation should not be more than x% of the lowest wage employee. This should apply to every company!

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But when you think about it, how do you even measure the effectiveness of personal finance? After all, so much of it is... personal.

Rachel Schneider, a researcher and co-author of The Financial Diaries: How American Families Cope in a World of Uncertainty, tried to look at how people handle money in the real world. She and her co-author, Jonathan Morduch, a researcher and professor at N.Y.U., worked with over 200 families for a year, gathering information on every dollar that went in and out of their homes.

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Sue User
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Our job offered " free 30 talk with a financial planner" He determined that I would have to put 1800 a month towards retirement to make the magical 1 million mark. That would have left me with $800 a month to live. And why do i need a million if i am living off 45,000 a year now ?

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Shane S
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It’s also totally fine to keep finances separate. Have one shared account for joint household bills, but then separate accounts for your fun money and personal expenses.

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LagoonaBlueColleen
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

True. Very true. We don't own a car. There was a time we had to take the bus home from a big grocery haul. It was cheaper to get a ton of food all at once than spend bus/cab fare multiple times. So I'd be waddling down the block from the bus stop carrying 6 bags on each hand. Sometimes having to go back and forth up and down the block lol. Laundry day meant gathering up 3 large bags, putting them on the wagon and walking it all down to the laundromat. There was no car to just drive the kid to school. Rain, sun, ice and snow we had to walk her there and back, sometimes using the wagon or sled. Cleaning meant actually scrubbing and dusting, not using all that fancy stuff. We had slumlords so we had to do a lot of repairs ourselves or wait until a cheap, careless contractor came to do a temporary patch job. I was in way better shape back then than I am now lol.

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"A huge finding was the level of volatility people experience in their financial lives over the course of a year," Ms. Schneider explained.

Although she expected to find income volatility year to year, she was surprised to see how widely income varied within the year, too. A subject could be above the poverty line for the year overall, but that same person could fall below the poverty line in any given month.

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Karen K
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

When my mother was in her late eighties, I told her that she could stop saving for her old age. She blinked and started laughing because she realized that she was, in her mind, still doing so. I miss her every day.

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LagoonaBlueColleen
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My mom has a serious problem with this. She's super finicky about interior/exterior appearances and every boyfriend she's moved in with, she's "helped" with redecorating and renovating. Each time I just shake my head and roll my eyes when she's not looking. Keep telling her to just stop and stop moving in with men just because she doesn't feel comfortable being a "single woman living on her own".

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LagoonaBlueColleen
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a personal matter between the family. There are some well-to-do parents who have no problems kicking their 18 year old to the curb without anything to survive on. And then there are the other parents, regardless of how well-off or not, who know how hard it is for the single, young folk to get by on their own and are okay with letting them remain at home to save money. It's no one else's business. You do you, people. If you're okay with your kids living at home, then that's you're business. If you want to kick them out of the nest, that's you're business.

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"This has a huge impact on how people deal with money," Schneider said. "The economy has been growing and the unemployment rate is relatively low and declining, yet we’re not seeing that growth and prosperity getting distributed down to the bottom."

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While Schneider agreed that financial education is necessary and can be useful, she also worried that overemphasizing it as a solution to financial challenges shifts responsibility away from our economy's major players (like banks that offer subprime predatory loans or companies that take advantage of workers).

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Swan
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

yes some poor children are smart but we never get to grow our smartness meet other people study be given opportunity we just stay there in the bled.. I mean.. it's a waste ; and I hate waste; us, poor people, do

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Chucky Cheezburger
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Unless you have been in those shoes, you can't know how to advise someone on living in them.

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Amy S
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I get frustrated at people saying it's inexpensive to cook healthy stews with cheaper cuts of meat and veg. The ingredients might be less expensive but having the oven on for 2 hours is more than many can afford where I live.

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ChimeraBubbles
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Disability benefits are there to cover the extra costs associated with having a disability/being disabled. Do you have to keep the heating on 3/4 of the year because of kidney failure, because there's a cost to that. Do you have to eat food without certain niche ingredients and therefore spend additional money covering the cost of that. I spend additional money each month on petrol so I can get to places because the bus isn't suitable. Disabilities cost more.

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One thing that both proponents and critics of financial education seem to find common ground on, however, is that if we're going to help people navigate the current system, the way we talk about money has to evolve.

Financial education should not be telling a person to do this and in this exact way or you’re a failure. We need to humanize the topic and try to acknowledge the individual.

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You cant stop the truth
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Anyway saving is a myth, that is NOT how rich people get rich. Source: I am in the 1% in my country, own 3 cars, paying off two properties, have two servants, private schooling, etc. How did I do it? Sheer luck, and playing the stock market with spare cash.

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Shane S
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Not having a car payment ROCKS! I’ll drive mine until the wheels fall off or it’s no longer economically sound to keep it

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Deb M.F.
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

been hearing that poor people need to work harder to have better things. If we don't work harder we don't deserve nice things. I work hard yet things don't get better..at my age I don't think they ever will

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Lesley Shore
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ex-Credit Union manager here. If you're married, you should at least tell your spouse you have your own acct. Most honest couples disclose that ahead of time. AND don't ask anymore questions. If they can't accept that then they have issues that will probably ruin your relationship eventually anyhow. In the event of death the spouse is usually the beneficiary anyway.

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You cant stop the truth
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This. I keep saying to people let's say "he is paid X" instead of "he earns X". Generally a person in management or above does not earn anything, they are more or less email forwarding devices that forward instructions between upper management and staff. That's not work.

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Swan
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

a child's happiness depends on money I would feel better (and the people at school insulting me too) if I coul take a shower when I want instead of "water is expensive and we only have one hot water balloon-storage/day so we'll have to take turns : for a family of three max MAX is 1 shower every three days :(

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Andy Acceber
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"Financial literacy" is code for rich people wanting to believe that poverty only happens due to personal faults and not systemic injustice.

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LagoonaBlueColleen
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Youtubers and other platformers get a lot of help from friends and family to advertise, and those who really did it themselves took a lot of sacrifices many of us aren't willing to risk. All these ones saying they quit their jobs to focus on their channel for a couple never tell you how they were able to do to that. Same with the ones saying they tried working one office job, quit and vowed to never work for someone again. HOW?

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Kylie Leanne
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think it should be taught in secondary school, as not everyone goes on to university

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Amy S
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The US system seems so complicated to me. In the UK your employer just deducts your taxes for you, mostly it's self-employed people have to do tax returns/work out their own payments.

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madbakes
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I never knew how true this was until a year ago. If I end up not being able to go back to work (currently on leave with a medical issue), I may or may not get social security benefits. They say that I can work, even if it's a job with less pay and less hours. How am I supposed to live on working 20 hours a week at $10 or $15 an hour?? If I don't find the right treatment, I'm poor no matter what.

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LagoonaBlueColleen
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1 year ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you have dyscalculia that is a very annoying statement to hear. It's not like we can't learn it just takes longer, and not a lot of people have the patience to take the time to teach it to someone with math dyslexia. It's frustrating and easier to just give up. But it's not that we're ignorant. We want this knowledge.

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