Company Is Trying To Scam Freelancer Into Working For Free But He Is Having None Of It, They Get Mad
Working on a trial basis. Working as an unpaid intern. Working for exposure. All of these things are bound to get your inner alarm bells ringing, especially if the company or client you’re talking to doesn’t have a well-established, trustworthy reputation. In short, some companies use flowery language and promises of full-time contracts to hide the fact that you’d be working for them for free… for a very long time or until they don’t have any more use for you.
Redditor Nitiddesigns, aka social media strategy freelancer Luke, shared an email thread between him and a company that was considering hiring him. However, the work offer was incredibly shady and Luke felt like they were trying to get him to work for free. He didn’t waste much time and called them out on it. Well, things soon took a turn for the dramatic! Check out the full story below, dear Pandas!
Meanwhile, Bored Panda reached out to the Freelancer Club, which fights against unpaid work and supports freelancers, and had a chat with them about how to react when asked to work for free. Read on for our interview with the founder of the project, Matt Dowling.
Freelancer Luke shared their emails with a company that got his alarm bells ringing
Image credits: Andrea Piacquadio (not the actual photo)
Though the job offer seemed more or less fine at the very beginning, it soon took a shady turn
Here’s how the company reacted when Luke asked to make things more official
The company ignored Luke’s 50 euro per hour fee and instead offered to make him work on a trial basis. According to them, if they’re satisfied with the end results, they’d pay the freelancer. Essentially, they asked him to work for free with no guarantees of being paid. Ever.
When Luke pointed out that he’d like a written guarantee that he’d get paid for the work he’s done (instead of just relying on a promise that it might happen), the company representative quickly turned sour. They called him a ‘shyster’ (I believe everyone sees the irony here, no?) and even put his name in quotation marks, mocking him.
Matt, the founder of the Freelancer Club and the #nofreework campaign, said that everyone at the project is “all too familiar with” the scenario where a freelancer is asked to work for free.
“When we launched Freelancer Club, we vowed not to post unpaid work, and yet we receive requests for free work on a daily basis,” Matt told Bored Panda.
He noted that far from every request to work for free is malicious or comes “from a place of exploitation,” however. Some companies and clients are naive. Though that’s not true in every case, of course.
“We advise freelancers to gently educate the client by breaking down what is required for them to complete the project and highlight how this work will commercially benefit the client. It’s a difficult balance as you don’t want to embarrass the client or patronize them. Try to influence their outlook and explain why paying a fair rate for work will ultimately improve their bottom line,” Matt explained how freelancers can negotiate.
One of the core missions at the Freelancer Club is to empower its freelance members. “We believe creativity has an enormous value, both economically and socially, and that we must change the toxic culture that undervalues artistic endeavors,” Matt explained.
“We frequently lecture at creative universities to let the next generation of freelancers know that what they do is highly valuable and that it pays in the long term to say no to unpaid work. A study we conducted in conjunction with our #NOFREEWORK campaign proved as much. 73% of all freelancers who had accepted unpaid work in the past said it had no benefit or a negative impact on their careers,” Matt pointed out that working for free isn’t in one’s best interest. The proof’s in the pudding!
And here’s how some Reddit users reacted to the story
109Kviews
Share on FacebookYou should give the name of the company: if they think this is normal working habits then they won't mind, right?
The sub has a rule against sharing such information as it could be used to identify, doxx, and harass people.
Load More Replies..."If we're satisfied." Trump is notorious for doing this to contractors and suppliers. He'd claim not to be totally satisfied with the work/product and pay only a fraction of the pre-agreed price. Example: a supplier delivered a number of pianos for one of Trumps resorts. The exact model specified by Trump. Then Trump claimed to not be satisfied and would only pay a fraction of the cost. When the supplier sued, Trump counter sued. The legal costs made the supplier eventually give up.
so it's not just "instagram people" who ask stuff for free now. company do it too?
Yup. Had a company stiff me for my last bill. Went to a collection agency. They were familiar with the crappy tactics that skivers use to try and get you to back off. The cost was almost the full amount of the bill, a no win for me.
Load More Replies...They want free publicity? Ok, share the email exchange online and name and shame these a-holes.
Had a company that proposed to pay me only if project was going well. Answered that bank wants mortgage money anyway and greeted.. .
I would answer that i also don't like the attitude of not paying employees which seems something that they do often! And i would also tell them that i wouldn't recommend them to anyone either, and i would make sure EVERYONE i know, finds out what a shitty unprofessional company they are!
Many companies also use the volunteer method of not paying people. When there are more volunteers than staff you know your getting used. "Worked" at an Aquarium as a volunteer where the staff to volunteer ration was 3:20, as well as the volunteer positions used to be paid jobs. Volunteering is great, have done it many many times long term, but those who use the status to not pay people should be a crime
Load More Replies...the lesson to remember when someone dealing with someone who expects you to work for free as a contractor or as an unpaid intern is the lesson Matthew Broderick as the David character taught us in the 1983 movie "War Games". He said, "Strange game. The only way to win is not to play". Real simple, folks. Don't give those people anything. They do not respect you. They will not do anything for you in return. Learn the ways of seducers and their seductions so you are not victimized by them. This is a hard hard hard life lesson to learn. Are you listening, young people? Yes, if you have a teachable spirit, you might have something to learn from the pathetic boomers out there who have already gone through all of this.
Translation: "We're willing to overlook the fact that people want to get paid for their work." Luke should write back to them with something along the lines of "I'm willing to overlook your desire to not pay your contractors. My fee for working with companies with policies such as yours is 150 euros per hour because of the increased risk to my business's reputation."
There's also a best practices rule for how contractors should receive payment: 20% of total job cost is due upfront. Alpha drafts are deliberately incomplete (just gives the general layout and idea). Payment due upon acceptance of alpha is 33% of total job. Beta is nearly complete with only a few tweaks being required. Another 33% of total job cost is due upon acceptance of Beta (total of 86% of total job cost). The remainder is due upon launch or receipt of deliverables. Cancellation fee is 80% of total job price after the acceptance of Alpha. This is to prevent the client from taking your design concepts and asking their internal team to duplicate it.
Load More Replies...I think you should recommend the company to ‘your’ associates-i.e. the entire Bored Panda community.
Company name.should.be disclosed to alert freelancers out there
What? They didn’t use the “We are ‘influencers’ and don’t pay others for their services, but, rather, you should pay us for the privilege of breathing the air in the same room as us.” claim?
"Associates"? Who the heck do you think you are? Al Capone? John Dillinger?
Pls clean my home and take care of my garden,if i like it i will maybe pay you,or even better,i will give you free publicity
I have a slightly different take on this one, just because we're only getting this one side of it. From the first email, and his response to it, it sounds like the freelancer was coldcalling/sending prospective clients unsolicited emails. I'm a small business owner and I get these "I can optimize your website" emails daily. To me it's all spam, and much of the time these are scammers. So I totally get the company's response, because it sounds to me like they were thinking that they were dealing with one of those scammers that just uses English-sounding names and will take your money but not actually do any work (or just give you something that's copied and pasted from a website).
It's understandable until they turned hostile when asked if they can get their agreement in writing. At that point it was clear the company was seeking to exploit freelancers.
Load More Replies...So easy to just make freelancers work and then claim that the work was not upto the standards... and not pay... sure.
Two things that stand out: this is a man/guy/male, not multiple people so the "their" isn't needed; this was quite obvious as a scam from the first correspondence. What a waste of a post!
Rather large assumption that these are text messages and that these are the only communication done.
Load More Replies...You should give the name of the company: if they think this is normal working habits then they won't mind, right?
The sub has a rule against sharing such information as it could be used to identify, doxx, and harass people.
Load More Replies..."If we're satisfied." Trump is notorious for doing this to contractors and suppliers. He'd claim not to be totally satisfied with the work/product and pay only a fraction of the pre-agreed price. Example: a supplier delivered a number of pianos for one of Trumps resorts. The exact model specified by Trump. Then Trump claimed to not be satisfied and would only pay a fraction of the cost. When the supplier sued, Trump counter sued. The legal costs made the supplier eventually give up.
so it's not just "instagram people" who ask stuff for free now. company do it too?
Yup. Had a company stiff me for my last bill. Went to a collection agency. They were familiar with the crappy tactics that skivers use to try and get you to back off. The cost was almost the full amount of the bill, a no win for me.
Load More Replies...They want free publicity? Ok, share the email exchange online and name and shame these a-holes.
Had a company that proposed to pay me only if project was going well. Answered that bank wants mortgage money anyway and greeted.. .
I would answer that i also don't like the attitude of not paying employees which seems something that they do often! And i would also tell them that i wouldn't recommend them to anyone either, and i would make sure EVERYONE i know, finds out what a shitty unprofessional company they are!
Many companies also use the volunteer method of not paying people. When there are more volunteers than staff you know your getting used. "Worked" at an Aquarium as a volunteer where the staff to volunteer ration was 3:20, as well as the volunteer positions used to be paid jobs. Volunteering is great, have done it many many times long term, but those who use the status to not pay people should be a crime
Load More Replies...the lesson to remember when someone dealing with someone who expects you to work for free as a contractor or as an unpaid intern is the lesson Matthew Broderick as the David character taught us in the 1983 movie "War Games". He said, "Strange game. The only way to win is not to play". Real simple, folks. Don't give those people anything. They do not respect you. They will not do anything for you in return. Learn the ways of seducers and their seductions so you are not victimized by them. This is a hard hard hard life lesson to learn. Are you listening, young people? Yes, if you have a teachable spirit, you might have something to learn from the pathetic boomers out there who have already gone through all of this.
Translation: "We're willing to overlook the fact that people want to get paid for their work." Luke should write back to them with something along the lines of "I'm willing to overlook your desire to not pay your contractors. My fee for working with companies with policies such as yours is 150 euros per hour because of the increased risk to my business's reputation."
There's also a best practices rule for how contractors should receive payment: 20% of total job cost is due upfront. Alpha drafts are deliberately incomplete (just gives the general layout and idea). Payment due upon acceptance of alpha is 33% of total job. Beta is nearly complete with only a few tweaks being required. Another 33% of total job cost is due upon acceptance of Beta (total of 86% of total job cost). The remainder is due upon launch or receipt of deliverables. Cancellation fee is 80% of total job price after the acceptance of Alpha. This is to prevent the client from taking your design concepts and asking their internal team to duplicate it.
Load More Replies...I think you should recommend the company to ‘your’ associates-i.e. the entire Bored Panda community.
Company name.should.be disclosed to alert freelancers out there
What? They didn’t use the “We are ‘influencers’ and don’t pay others for their services, but, rather, you should pay us for the privilege of breathing the air in the same room as us.” claim?
"Associates"? Who the heck do you think you are? Al Capone? John Dillinger?
Pls clean my home and take care of my garden,if i like it i will maybe pay you,or even better,i will give you free publicity
I have a slightly different take on this one, just because we're only getting this one side of it. From the first email, and his response to it, it sounds like the freelancer was coldcalling/sending prospective clients unsolicited emails. I'm a small business owner and I get these "I can optimize your website" emails daily. To me it's all spam, and much of the time these are scammers. So I totally get the company's response, because it sounds to me like they were thinking that they were dealing with one of those scammers that just uses English-sounding names and will take your money but not actually do any work (or just give you something that's copied and pasted from a website).
It's understandable until they turned hostile when asked if they can get their agreement in writing. At that point it was clear the company was seeking to exploit freelancers.
Load More Replies...So easy to just make freelancers work and then claim that the work was not upto the standards... and not pay... sure.
Two things that stand out: this is a man/guy/male, not multiple people so the "their" isn't needed; this was quite obvious as a scam from the first correspondence. What a waste of a post!
Rather large assumption that these are text messages and that these are the only communication done.
Load More Replies...
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