Company Demands Employee Bring A Doctor’s Note To Prove They’re Sick, Regrets It When The Doctor Writes A Fake One
Company policy. Two words that can sometimes do the organization more harm than good. And this example perfectly proves it. Recently, Reddit user /u/jaxmagicman made a post on r/MaliciousCompliance, talking about the time he got food poisoning. The company /u/jaxmagicman works for requires employees to bring a doctor’s note when they’re sick and refuses to make any exceptions. Even if the worker will miss more days than they would otherwise…
Image credits: francisblack (not the actual photo)
When talking with senior managers of a large company, Liezl Groenewald from Ethics Institute heard one of them ask whether it is okay to bend the rules from time to time if it is for the greater good of the company.
“Performance-based judgment calls are managerial decisions to bend the rules because, in doing so, company or individual performance will be enhanced,” Groenewald wrote. “This is typically related to rewarding employees for good performance by making exceptions to established rules.”
“Faulty rules refer to ambiguous, out-dated or simply wrong rules in the eyes of the manager.”
Moreover, a study by the Academy of Management Executives (USA) revealed that 70% of executives bend company rules. When asked why they do so, they mentioned three rationales for rule-bending, namely performance–based judgement calls, faulty rules and socially embedded norms.
“Organisations need to build a culture where the emphasis is on following the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. A code of ethics should thus not be predominantly rules-based, but rather a combination of rules- and values-based.”
Here’s what people had to say about the whole situation
everyone acting like it's almost a crime while here in switzerland it's normal
Like in germany. I guess, in most european countries "social" just doesn't equal "communist" like in the USA.
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Everywhere I've ever worked requires a note to come back to work after missing three consecutive days. Mostly to prove you are well enough to work, and not going to infect other people.
I live in germany. That is completly normal here. But it is also normal here that you have unlimited sick leave. There are some rules, so you get a paycut after the first 6 weeks of being sick, but with one day at work the 6 weeks with full sick pay start again. Also that is enforced by law. Nothing a company can choose. If you are not living in a third world country a healthcare like that should be normal. The only downside is, you have to have proof so that idiots have it harder to scam the system that is here to save the weakest. Because of that, one day leaves are rare, cause a lot of companys want a doctors note also for the first day. But it is better vor your health to have some time for recovery. Overall I love our system after realizing how unhuman a lot of countries are in this regard. Two years before I didn't had to struggle with my 7 weeks of sick leave cause I can't work with a broken arm.
That's not quite right. The six weeks only start again if you have a NEW illness. If you've had a particular illness and you had your six weeks of fully paid leave you can't just go back for one day and the six weeks start again. In that case you'll get 'Krankengeld' instead of 'Lohnweiterzahlun'.
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We have to prove we're sick in Italy. Our family doctor has to write a note. But our sick leave is paid. We have paid sick leave for 18 months every 3 years.
Pretty much the same here. I can't even understand why should anyone believe that you were sick for a week just because you say so.
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In the US going to the doc is an expensive venture, and probably less than half the people have any kind of paid sick leave. So you're missing wages you can't afford to miss, then paying through the nose to go to a doctor for a piece of paper that says you have a cold. So we all work while sick. Frankly, if we can drive, we'll go to work instead of a doctor. Few can afford it.
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I've never required a sick note, I never will. If you're sick, you should probably be staying home anyhow. But then, I don't treat my employees like c**p, so I know i can trust them.
So much truth in this statement. I work for a small business and they treat us like people (or grown a*s adults like the article stated) because they trust us to make the right decision for our health and the health of others. No one in the office abuses this privilege because we respect our boss and other employees. If I need a personal day or mental health day I can take that too so long as I don't go over the allotted sick and vacation time. It is amazing how if you treat your employees well and trust them that they will do the same for you. I have never worked a big corporate job so I can see why this may not work in that setting, but that is also one of the reasons I don't have a big corporate job!
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If I have a cold, I need to stay at home! A doctor can not do anything for you, and all you are doing is spreading your germs. When you force "notes" you are encouraging people to go to work sick... " I don't feel that sick yet". That guarantees I will probably be getting sick in the next few days.
Why is a note encouraging people to go to work sick? Or is that again because of the failed US healthcare? Cause in modern countries there is no real struggle to get a diagnose from a proffesional. Cause we have unlimited paid sick leave by law, we encourage people to stay at home if they are sick. I think that is the better way then making doctors too expensive for half of the citizens.
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I had a similar situation. Just a cold that my dr could do nothing for except tell me to hydrate and rest. When I told her I came in for a note she asked me "how many days would you like off" and wrote it accordingly.
I work for one of the largest Banks in the U.S. They DO NOT require a note when you are out. They don't even ask for death certificates if you have to attend a funeral. I have never had a company ask me for a doctor's note when I was out for being sick. There was 1 time I did ask my doctor for a note just to cover my @$$ since I was out for about 8 days with the flu.
I had to have adequate proof for our staffing department that I had given birth to my child before they would take me off the schedule for more than 3 days. The baby that I carried for 9 months, and clearly spent my last days at work heavily pregnant. Looking back it was so stupid. I also got a lot of really nasty attitude from the woman I spoke with, however I was so happy with my son I didn't care.
That seems to be across the board. They find mothers a total nuisance and resent them for not giving total commitment to the company and the colleagues and caring for other people. , they're like jealous kids. When my sister's kids were small she'd have to leave at 5pm on the dot (her salaried hours) and they'd get pissy with her for not staying til 7 or 8 pm to "show commitment" like all the single employees. They didnt seem to mind when her colleagues turned up at 11am hungover.
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Ask the a******s that fake sickness, because they don't want to go to work, why you have to get a note... Some people just ruin it for everybody.
Then route those people out and deal with them. Don’t make the rest of us pay for it.
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I have chronic sinusitis and my allergies can give me a really bad time. My eyes hurt due to irritation, can't breath well because of stuffy nose and my throat is always dry and itchy. I work in a call center. Can't see the monitor, can't stop sneezing and because of my nose and the dry thoat the clients can't understand my german (native Spanish, work for German company). Eventhough they see me having a bad time, knowing which my problem is because I gave them many notes from my doctor, they make me go to see a doctor... but most ER don't give notes for work (even when doctors tell you to rest) and I can't ask to see my doctor without an appointment so I lose the day and lose the time going to ER just to become a diagnosis I already know but no certification.
Wikipedia - List of Minimum Annual Leave by Country. It's surprising how many days off employees have in other countries.
This list refers to "Leave" as in "Vacation". For sick leave, which makes for some interesting reading, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_leave "At least 145 countries provide paid sick days for short- or long-term illnesses, with 127 providing a week or more annually. 98 countries guarantee one month or more of paid sick days. Many high-income economies require employers to provide paid sick days upwards of 10 days, including: the Netherlands, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Singapore.|
Load More Replies... It totally depends on the company. I live in germany and most people I know need a doctor's note for the third day. However, the company I work for demands a doctor's note from day 1!
It's so hard when you are living in a "socialist country" like the Netherlands. /S Some of the downsides of our socialist system: An employer asking for a doctor's note would violate my privacy and get in big trouble. Contacting me when I'm sick is another violation of my privacy. Paying me less because I'm sick isn't also allowed. Asking for medical information about my sickness is another no no. Should my sickness last for 2 years , my boss couldn't fire me during that time. We also don't have to produce some note telling the boss I'm healthy enough to work again.
In germany you have to get the note, but it only states that you can't work. For privacy reasons without any further details. "Can't work" is all a doctor is allowed to tell. The rest you described is also true for germany. I think living in europe is pretty nice.
Load More Replies... I have to say, when I was sick (chronically, and missed a lot of partial days, and in pain when I was there) my job was so accommodating. It's been ten years and that's still the part I tell people. These micromanagers could learn a thing or two from a humble landscaping company.
Why in the world would you go to the doctor for something that's not really "treatable" subjecting yourself to the germs of the people who are at the doctors office with spreadable viruses ..... and waste the doctors time.... when all you needed was rest, fluids and a nearby toilet? Its ridiculous.
What I find more amazing is the fact he thought he would be recovered from food poisoning after only three days!
You're lucky. A place where I once worked asked you go to the doctors for a note even for one day. It was a pain if you just wanted a day off if you wanted a day off of you had bad menestral cramps and felt like Death because of the time of the month.
Yes! Even female superiors don't get that. For some of us, the first day is Hell.
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My company provides 30 sick leave days, provided you have a medical certificate stating you should rest from when to when. This is for audit and for insurance claims. As an employee, I don't have problems with this policy.
Hm I was out sick for 3 days could of been more but on the 3rd day my supervisor calls and asked if I could come in "I don't even have to do a full days of work but something" I honestly should of stayed off the whole week because I was still tired and a mess when I got back!
Work place efficiency is not improved by sick people trying to work. The mistakes that they could make could be costly. It doesn't make sense.
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I'm thankful for my job as an engineer at a small company. I woke up one morning with crippling anxiety. Never had it before, it just appeared one day and never went away. No problem working from home as long as I need to, or leaving early, or taking 30 minute walks in the middle of day. I could probably work a normal 9-5 job now, after 5 months of medication learning techniques for dealing with it. There's no way I'd be able to hold a normal job with customers and shifts before this point, and unemployment would probably have been bad too.
Requiring a doctor's note here is a standard practice, but most places allow you to bring it whenever you come back. Also, most doctors would send you a note via email or the clinic's app, so there's no need to go physically and see them [and take up a time slot that could be used to treat someone who actually needs it, while at it]. Then again, we also have universal healthcare. Which is a novel and radical concept in the US.
For up to 1 week, we can self certificate, 7 days or more needs a sick note. Sickness absence is formally managed if it falls below 96% I work for the NHS in the UK.
If you work at one of the many companies where employer paid health coverage has gone extinct, made too little to afford insurance but too much to qualify for gov assistance, these Dr visits for a note can run $150+... But that's still less expensive than heath insurance.
I've read this article 3 times. maybe I'm not getting it, but where is the 'Regret' mentioned in the title of article?
Virus born stomach flue, i. e. viral gastroenteritis can continue to be contagious for days after the acute symptoms have passed.
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It's also stupid when schools need their students to get a doctors note; even if the person lives with their parents. Work places are just terrible when it comes to this stuff; especially when you're ill and barely have enough energy / time to get to the phone to call or text them.
Although I agree with you, I can kind of see some educational purpose for students to be obbligated to prove they're sick, up until high school. (Back in my day, lots of students used to skip classes because it was considered cool and rebellious. Me included. Although I was a good kiddy and didn't explicitly skip classes just to skip them, didn't skip many either. Anyway...) We were saying. Yes, in the adult world, that includes university AND workplace, it is total nonsense to treat people like that. In university, it's because, it's your choice, so who cares about attendance.... In a workplace, it's because you're mature enough to know that your colleagues, your boss and your family that you're feeding, they all count on you.
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Just today I went to my doctor to get my note for my sick leave. I wasn't sick, my small child was in quarantine, so we had a good 10 days together at home. Never occurred to me to go to work without document for my sick leave, but the rules here are like this. Imagine the astonishment of the 🇺🇸 citizens... by the way - I live in Bulgaria, in the Balkans.
I had to pay 115 at urgent care because they didn't take my employer's insurance. I was sick for 2 days
This is such a bizarre debate as seen from Europe, as here in most states, sick leaves are paid (by the employerand/or social security) and doctor's appointments are highly government subsidised. So, as society is paying for you to stay home, there needs to be some kind of check if it lasts more than a day or two or happens a lot. (sidenote, this wonderdul system is crumbling almost everywhere because of "austerity") The american situation shows the dangerous hypocrisy of capitalism, which is based on the ideology that every one should be free, independant and able to stand on his own two legs, and as such, not dependent on mandatory solidarity in times of need. Yet, when given the chance, the powerful do not lose a chance to take away that freedom and independance.
In Europe people have many vacation days. But if you are sick even for few hours, you need a doctor's notice.
HA! Mine's the best! I am busy getting progressively sick. Monday, not so good. Tuesday, worse. By Wednesday I had decided to hit the Doc. Went to work and then decide thing are not going well nd plan to go and see the doctor during lunch. My Boss at the time (who was a real slave-driver), Agrees on that. I get to the doctor and after he's done the examination he's amazed I am still standing. He's shocked at my condition, how long its been since i had a good holiday. In Short, he was furious at my boss. As luck would have it, my boss calls during the examination and promptly asks if i would be back hat afternoon, or only back at work Thursday. The doc asks why i sighed after the call, "Boss wants me back at work tomorrow, Doc, you gotta give me the good s**t". The Doc's face turns a shade of red. It might be relevant to indicate that he was an ex-military doctor. He raises his voice "That bastard! I was only going to book you off for the rest of the week but this oke, he's too much!"
So basically, he demanded the Boss' number and called him. Proceeded to describe my illness to him and that i will be off for an additional week on top of the remaining working days left in the current week. He further warned the boss that should he try and coax me into going back to work at any time earlier than that he would have him arrested for contravening the explicit instructions of a medical professional. Ony May way home that afternoon all I got was a "get well soon" text from the boss... Got better over the weekend and had a whole week off!
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It's totally normal for a company to ask for a sick note on the third day. So many people take advantage of sick days and having to go to a doctor and pay for a consultation is a deterrent. It is also normal to ask for a sick note for absenteeism on a Friday, Monday or any day preceding or following a public holiday.
Missed three days for a bad cold. Boss asked for a note. Explained I wasn't going to try to get an appointment (no same day appointments) and pay a copay to be told I had a cold. Offered to show her the store receipts for the many boxes of tissue, cold medicine and cough drops. And, if she wanted me to, I'd phone her and let her listen to my stuffed up voice, or the coughing and sneezing. She backed off, but said next time, I would need a note.
... These people would argue "I pay into sick leave so I should be able to be MIA whenever I want". I once had someone yell at me, say they were OWED to be paid (for again, not doing their job, and everyone should JUST BELIEVE that s/he needed to be off for good reason) - and found out later they flew out to another continent to party (no... not sick at all). Three days sounds like a balance before they kick you into the full "fill out these official disability forms" because any longer and yes - they DO need a good reason for you being off work for weeks on end (and still paying you). No. they can't just ask SOME people, because then that's bias and favouritism. If they got 5 days, how long until people start complaining "I deserve to be able to take a whole work week off without having to justify it"? They have to draw a line somewhere. Maybe fight for 4 days? (2/2)
So - I used to be a Disability Case Manager. Going to weigh in. I'm for both ends of the vote. It is stupid and it isn't at the same time. One day is ridiculous, two days ... okay... but you know you really have to have a cut off before you need "proof of illness". 3 days in a row actually isn't that unreasonable. If you think it is... thank the people who blatantly have abused the system to give themselves an "extra long weekend" - yeah happens more often than you'd believe. Because of past abuses, there has to be some sort of guideline to decide "at what point do we need proof the illness is significant enough to take that much time off?". Give an inch, take a mile. Truth: I had "fights" with those who be off due to mysterious "illness" for 3 weeks STRAIGHT - and feel entitled to be paid for not working (and no proof that they needed to be off). 1/2
In Italy it is normal to go to the doctor when you're sick. Doctor decides how many days you will need and the day you're off are paid to you by INPS
A doctor's note is not for the patient to know what he has. It's for the job place to make sure people are not faking a sick day to go to some random show. Surely it's not the case most of the times.
A Nurse at my work was dizzy and hypertensive The director made her have her blood pressure rechecked by a supervisor before she said it was okay for her to go home.
the poster is just a lazy person, every company has it rule to follow and sick for 3 days is normal to get a doctor's note. His/her company should fired him/her.
I don't get sick leave with my current job, but the last time I had a job with sick leave this was standard. One day you didn't need a note for, but two or more (or if you were sick on a Monday or Friday) you did. Standard practice in Australia.
it was all making sense until I read "they charge for the note"- of course, they need to get paid... but I could see that as incentive for some people being less than honest. doesn't seem like a good system
Had gotten the bug going around last week. Pushed through work week short staffed. Weekend bug hits me. Go in Monday because manager out in vacation this week. Push through Monday. No voice. Fever. Mess. Tuesday go in. Horrible. Make it two hours. Pump out jobs I had rushes on. Go home 9 am. (We start at 7. ) Out Wednesday. Out Thursday. Have to go back Friday because it being day three I would need a note. Not worth spending $185 at walk in clinic for a note. So pushed through it. Course the owner and foreman both were sick an took a week each without notes. Fml an thanks for getting me sick a******s.
A big shampoo company that I had worked for only gave you THREE sick days per calendar year. Those were for you and your kids. Then, if you actually used your sick days, then you got a "mark" on your record. I had a daughter that had surgery and I needed to be off for one week. That was fine, but I would get a "mark" for it. Then another daughter was in a car accident (hit by drunk driver) at 1am. I was at work, so I called my manager at home and asked him if I could leave and why. He said I could, but I would get a "mark". I'm like, "she was in a car accident!" He said that didn't matter, if I wanted a mark, I could leave. I told them Fk it and I left.
In the UK it's law that you can take the first 7 days of an illness "self-certified", i.e. you confirm to your employer yourself that you're sick. Any longer than 7 days and you'd then have to get a sick note from your doctor to be signed off for longer. If you don't qualify for company sick pay, you can get statutory sick pay of £94 a week. I'm lucky, my employer pays full pay for 6 months for employees of over 5 years.
The last thing a person needs when they have a cold or flu is to go to the doctor. They need rest, not sitting in a waiting room. Also, they will be likely infecting people along the way. As to the person who said they want a note to be sure you're not still infecting people, doctor's don't check you to see if you're still contagious! With a cold, you are likely not contagious if it's been more than 2 days since you had symptoms, and I believe with the flue, you are not contagious if it's been more than 24 hours since fever went down. (I don't know know about stomach viruses.) Also, with normal colds and stomach viruses, most people are exposed to this every day, so staying home is helping no one. (But the actual flu or something like Strep, yes, then it is a concern.)
This is why I like working for small mom and pop places. They will let you be sick. I worked at a place for less than a year when my umbilical hernia became a problem. I informed my boss way early that I would be out for 3 weeks in recovery. She had plenty of time to shift things around to make sure it was covered. Three months later, and I had to have another medical procedure..very little downtime. Never..during the entire process, was I asked for a doctors note. She thought it was childish to ask.
I always get a doctor's note if I miss any work hours. My young adult daughter is learning to do the same. I find that when I show up to work with a note in hand, management or administration is often flustered. They are accustomed to bullying employees into bringing notes, and I've taken away their chance to hound me.
I get 3 sick days a year, but we're supposed to call in 8 hours ahead of time. I go to work at 7 am. That means I have to know before I go to sleep if I'll wake up sick. If I get sick I never see it coming, I just wake up throwing up, or fever, or what have you. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to work that.
This has nothing to do with a doctor's note, but one time I worked as a delivery driver for Pizza Hut and on my day off it was was freezing and snowing and the guy who was supposed to work that morning said that his dad wouldn't let him drive the truck in that weather. Mind you, he was 42 years old at the time. A couple of weeks later, I come down with a bad cough and need someone to work for me. This guy was one of the only people available and said he didn't want to give up his day off. The manager had to work with a guy who wasn't very good at the job because she couldn't get this guy to cooperate.
same here in Canada, most government jobs actually require a note for 2 days in a row. Private businesses are 3 days
I'm in the UK 3 days out requires a sick note from the doctor because that's when statutory sick pay kicks in and its a legal requirement. I think this dude is a tool.
I honestly don't see a problem here. The company just wants to be secured that you're not skipping days whenever you feel like it.
This is normal. If I'm out for more than a day I have to get a doctor's note. If I go to the dentist or eye doctor, I'm only allowed to take a half day.
I work for the department of Veterans affairs (WCPAC). We have that rule. You miss 3 days you have to have a Dr.'s note.
I've always hated blanket policies. Instead of dealing with the one or two problem employees HR makes blanket policies that are totally nonsense. That is cowardice and lazy management. I had a job that had those kind of policies. I called in sick and they demanded a doctor's note, so I quit. Three days later they called me in, changed the policy and reinstated me. Of course, I was lucky that I did a job no one else knew how to do and no one wanted to be trained on it.
Good for you. Managers soon get to know who has a tendancy for pulling sickies. In the UK the NHS has far better things for their GPs to be doing than writing unnecessary sick notes.
Load More Replies... In my first year in the Navy I was hit by a nasty flu. I went to the base hospital and they gave me a sick chit for a few days off and I called my supervisor and he told me to bring the chit in. The office was on the other side of the base and base transport (I can’t remember why) was down at that time, so I had to walk a few km to the office. I was almost there when my supervisor drove down the hill and met me. I gave him the chit and he said “okay, go back to bed” then drove off. I had to walk another couple of km back to barracks.
Worked for an health insurance company. They did not want you being sick at the office (great). But they only allowed you to accrue 6 pts before you get written up (not so great). The points are accrued for each "occurrence". An occurrence is 1-3 days long. If you miss more than 3 days, it becomes a second or more occurrences. Our busiest time of the year is open-enrollment (Oct through Dec). It's a WICKED stressful time. Call volume increases by over 500% during the entire time. And when is flu season? Yep, you guessed it, right smack in the middle of open enrollment. Add to that, they make it MANDATORY to work OT to make up for the call volume. I get the business needs thing, but it's a recipe for disaster. They like to have a doctors note if it's more than 3 days to document the reason for an extended illness. They don't care if its 3 or less days why you're out. But, you absolutely MUST call in even if you are in a coma during those three days. No one else can do it
What means "pts"? And in which country did you work for a company like that? Getting in trouble for days where you are ill would be illegal in germany.
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It is c**p, but it also wouldn't be necessary if there weren't an overwhelming number of people calling in sick when they're not. I think every single person who has ever had a job has called in sick for a mental health day (aka, stay on the couch all day in your pj's and binge Netflix). Then throw in all the lazy a*s people who like to take advantage and abuse the system. You can see how it becomes a problem if there is no system of accountability in place. This costs businesses millions each year. If you're going to be out 3 or more days, then yes, you should need a doctor's note. In my entire career I've never needed that many days without seeing a doctor. It's not unreasonable. Both the employee and the doctor obviously don't see the big picture here.
In my company your number of paid sick days per year went up the longer you worked for the company. One older co-worker in my department had worked there for 20 years and we hardly ever saw her.
This is a lot of crying for nothing. So what you had to go to the doctor. Your company wants to make sure you are healthy and not a liability when you come back. This is common practice.
How is this an article? I mean - guy is sick. Calls in sick. Company asks for note. Guy provides note. I don't get this at all.
everyone acting like it's almost a crime while here in switzerland it's normal
Like in germany. I guess, in most european countries "social" just doesn't equal "communist" like in the USA.
Load More Replies... Everywhere I've ever worked requires a note to come back to work after missing three consecutive days. Mostly to prove you are well enough to work, and not going to infect other people.
I live in germany. That is completly normal here. But it is also normal here that you have unlimited sick leave. There are some rules, so you get a paycut after the first 6 weeks of being sick, but with one day at work the 6 weeks with full sick pay start again. Also that is enforced by law. Nothing a company can choose. If you are not living in a third world country a healthcare like that should be normal. The only downside is, you have to have proof so that idiots have it harder to scam the system that is here to save the weakest. Because of that, one day leaves are rare, cause a lot of companys want a doctors note also for the first day. But it is better vor your health to have some time for recovery. Overall I love our system after realizing how unhuman a lot of countries are in this regard. Two years before I didn't had to struggle with my 7 weeks of sick leave cause I can't work with a broken arm.
That's not quite right. The six weeks only start again if you have a NEW illness. If you've had a particular illness and you had your six weeks of fully paid leave you can't just go back for one day and the six weeks start again. In that case you'll get 'Krankengeld' instead of 'Lohnweiterzahlun'.
Load More Replies... We have to prove we're sick in Italy. Our family doctor has to write a note. But our sick leave is paid. We have paid sick leave for 18 months every 3 years.
Pretty much the same here. I can't even understand why should anyone believe that you were sick for a week just because you say so.
Load More Replies... In the US going to the doc is an expensive venture, and probably less than half the people have any kind of paid sick leave. So you're missing wages you can't afford to miss, then paying through the nose to go to a doctor for a piece of paper that says you have a cold. So we all work while sick. Frankly, if we can drive, we'll go to work instead of a doctor. Few can afford it.
Load More Replies... I've never required a sick note, I never will. If you're sick, you should probably be staying home anyhow. But then, I don't treat my employees like c**p, so I know i can trust them.
So much truth in this statement. I work for a small business and they treat us like people (or grown a*s adults like the article stated) because they trust us to make the right decision for our health and the health of others. No one in the office abuses this privilege because we respect our boss and other employees. If I need a personal day or mental health day I can take that too so long as I don't go over the allotted sick and vacation time. It is amazing how if you treat your employees well and trust them that they will do the same for you. I have never worked a big corporate job so I can see why this may not work in that setting, but that is also one of the reasons I don't have a big corporate job!
Load More Replies... If I have a cold, I need to stay at home! A doctor can not do anything for you, and all you are doing is spreading your germs. When you force "notes" you are encouraging people to go to work sick... " I don't feel that sick yet". That guarantees I will probably be getting sick in the next few days.
Why is a note encouraging people to go to work sick? Or is that again because of the failed US healthcare? Cause in modern countries there is no real struggle to get a diagnose from a proffesional. Cause we have unlimited paid sick leave by law, we encourage people to stay at home if they are sick. I think that is the better way then making doctors too expensive for half of the citizens.
Load More Replies... I had a similar situation. Just a cold that my dr could do nothing for except tell me to hydrate and rest. When I told her I came in for a note she asked me "how many days would you like off" and wrote it accordingly.
I work for one of the largest Banks in the U.S. They DO NOT require a note when you are out. They don't even ask for death certificates if you have to attend a funeral. I have never had a company ask me for a doctor's note when I was out for being sick. There was 1 time I did ask my doctor for a note just to cover my @$$ since I was out for about 8 days with the flu.
I had to have adequate proof for our staffing department that I had given birth to my child before they would take me off the schedule for more than 3 days. The baby that I carried for 9 months, and clearly spent my last days at work heavily pregnant. Looking back it was so stupid. I also got a lot of really nasty attitude from the woman I spoke with, however I was so happy with my son I didn't care.
That seems to be across the board. They find mothers a total nuisance and resent them for not giving total commitment to the company and the colleagues and caring for other people. , they're like jealous kids. When my sister's kids were small she'd have to leave at 5pm on the dot (her salaried hours) and they'd get pissy with her for not staying til 7 or 8 pm to "show commitment" like all the single employees. They didnt seem to mind when her colleagues turned up at 11am hungover.
Load More Replies... Ask the a******s that fake sickness, because they don't want to go to work, why you have to get a note... Some people just ruin it for everybody.
Then route those people out and deal with them. Don’t make the rest of us pay for it.
Load More Replies... I have chronic sinusitis and my allergies can give me a really bad time. My eyes hurt due to irritation, can't breath well because of stuffy nose and my throat is always dry and itchy. I work in a call center. Can't see the monitor, can't stop sneezing and because of my nose and the dry thoat the clients can't understand my german (native Spanish, work for German company). Eventhough they see me having a bad time, knowing which my problem is because I gave them many notes from my doctor, they make me go to see a doctor... but most ER don't give notes for work (even when doctors tell you to rest) and I can't ask to see my doctor without an appointment so I lose the day and lose the time going to ER just to become a diagnosis I already know but no certification.
Wikipedia - List of Minimum Annual Leave by Country. It's surprising how many days off employees have in other countries.
This list refers to "Leave" as in "Vacation". For sick leave, which makes for some interesting reading, go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_leave "At least 145 countries provide paid sick days for short- or long-term illnesses, with 127 providing a week or more annually. 98 countries guarantee one month or more of paid sick days. Many high-income economies require employers to provide paid sick days upwards of 10 days, including: the Netherlands, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Singapore.|
Load More Replies... It totally depends on the company. I live in germany and most people I know need a doctor's note for the third day. However, the company I work for demands a doctor's note from day 1!
It's so hard when you are living in a "socialist country" like the Netherlands. /S Some of the downsides of our socialist system: An employer asking for a doctor's note would violate my privacy and get in big trouble. Contacting me when I'm sick is another violation of my privacy. Paying me less because I'm sick isn't also allowed. Asking for medical information about my sickness is another no no. Should my sickness last for 2 years , my boss couldn't fire me during that time. We also don't have to produce some note telling the boss I'm healthy enough to work again.
In germany you have to get the note, but it only states that you can't work. For privacy reasons without any further details. "Can't work" is all a doctor is allowed to tell. The rest you described is also true for germany. I think living in europe is pretty nice.
Load More Replies... I have to say, when I was sick (chronically, and missed a lot of partial days, and in pain when I was there) my job was so accommodating. It's been ten years and that's still the part I tell people. These micromanagers could learn a thing or two from a humble landscaping company.
Why in the world would you go to the doctor for something that's not really "treatable" subjecting yourself to the germs of the people who are at the doctors office with spreadable viruses ..... and waste the doctors time.... when all you needed was rest, fluids and a nearby toilet? Its ridiculous.
What I find more amazing is the fact he thought he would be recovered from food poisoning after only three days!
You're lucky. A place where I once worked asked you go to the doctors for a note even for one day. It was a pain if you just wanted a day off if you wanted a day off of you had bad menestral cramps and felt like Death because of the time of the month.
Yes! Even female superiors don't get that. For some of us, the first day is Hell.
Load More Replies... My company provides 30 sick leave days, provided you have a medical certificate stating you should rest from when to when. This is for audit and for insurance claims. As an employee, I don't have problems with this policy.
Hm I was out sick for 3 days could of been more but on the 3rd day my supervisor calls and asked if I could come in "I don't even have to do a full days of work but something" I honestly should of stayed off the whole week because I was still tired and a mess when I got back!
Work place efficiency is not improved by sick people trying to work. The mistakes that they could make could be costly. It doesn't make sense.
Load More Replies... I'm thankful for my job as an engineer at a small company. I woke up one morning with crippling anxiety. Never had it before, it just appeared one day and never went away. No problem working from home as long as I need to, or leaving early, or taking 30 minute walks in the middle of day. I could probably work a normal 9-5 job now, after 5 months of medication learning techniques for dealing with it. There's no way I'd be able to hold a normal job with customers and shifts before this point, and unemployment would probably have been bad too.
Requiring a doctor's note here is a standard practice, but most places allow you to bring it whenever you come back. Also, most doctors would send you a note via email or the clinic's app, so there's no need to go physically and see them [and take up a time slot that could be used to treat someone who actually needs it, while at it]. Then again, we also have universal healthcare. Which is a novel and radical concept in the US.
For up to 1 week, we can self certificate, 7 days or more needs a sick note. Sickness absence is formally managed if it falls below 96% I work for the NHS in the UK.
If you work at one of the many companies where employer paid health coverage has gone extinct, made too little to afford insurance but too much to qualify for gov assistance, these Dr visits for a note can run $150+... But that's still less expensive than heath insurance.
I've read this article 3 times. maybe I'm not getting it, but where is the 'Regret' mentioned in the title of article?
Virus born stomach flue, i. e. viral gastroenteritis can continue to be contagious for days after the acute symptoms have passed.
Load More Replies... It's also stupid when schools need their students to get a doctors note; even if the person lives with their parents. Work places are just terrible when it comes to this stuff; especially when you're ill and barely have enough energy / time to get to the phone to call or text them.
Although I agree with you, I can kind of see some educational purpose for students to be obbligated to prove they're sick, up until high school. (Back in my day, lots of students used to skip classes because it was considered cool and rebellious. Me included. Although I was a good kiddy and didn't explicitly skip classes just to skip them, didn't skip many either. Anyway...) We were saying. Yes, in the adult world, that includes university AND workplace, it is total nonsense to treat people like that. In university, it's because, it's your choice, so who cares about attendance.... In a workplace, it's because you're mature enough to know that your colleagues, your boss and your family that you're feeding, they all count on you.
Load More Replies... Just today I went to my doctor to get my note for my sick leave. I wasn't sick, my small child was in quarantine, so we had a good 10 days together at home. Never occurred to me to go to work without document for my sick leave, but the rules here are like this. Imagine the astonishment of the 🇺🇸 citizens... by the way - I live in Bulgaria, in the Balkans.
I had to pay 115 at urgent care because they didn't take my employer's insurance. I was sick for 2 days
This is such a bizarre debate as seen from Europe, as here in most states, sick leaves are paid (by the employerand/or social security) and doctor's appointments are highly government subsidised. So, as society is paying for you to stay home, there needs to be some kind of check if it lasts more than a day or two or happens a lot. (sidenote, this wonderdul system is crumbling almost everywhere because of "austerity") The american situation shows the dangerous hypocrisy of capitalism, which is based on the ideology that every one should be free, independant and able to stand on his own two legs, and as such, not dependent on mandatory solidarity in times of need. Yet, when given the chance, the powerful do not lose a chance to take away that freedom and independance.
In Europe people have many vacation days. But if you are sick even for few hours, you need a doctor's notice.
HA! Mine's the best! I am busy getting progressively sick. Monday, not so good. Tuesday, worse. By Wednesday I had decided to hit the Doc. Went to work and then decide thing are not going well nd plan to go and see the doctor during lunch. My Boss at the time (who was a real slave-driver), Agrees on that. I get to the doctor and after he's done the examination he's amazed I am still standing. He's shocked at my condition, how long its been since i had a good holiday. In Short, he was furious at my boss. As luck would have it, my boss calls during the examination and promptly asks if i would be back hat afternoon, or only back at work Thursday. The doc asks why i sighed after the call, "Boss wants me back at work tomorrow, Doc, you gotta give me the good s**t". The Doc's face turns a shade of red. It might be relevant to indicate that he was an ex-military doctor. He raises his voice "That bastard! I was only going to book you off for the rest of the week but this oke, he's too much!"
So basically, he demanded the Boss' number and called him. Proceeded to describe my illness to him and that i will be off for an additional week on top of the remaining working days left in the current week. He further warned the boss that should he try and coax me into going back to work at any time earlier than that he would have him arrested for contravening the explicit instructions of a medical professional. Ony May way home that afternoon all I got was a "get well soon" text from the boss... Got better over the weekend and had a whole week off!
Load More Replies... It's totally normal for a company to ask for a sick note on the third day. So many people take advantage of sick days and having to go to a doctor and pay for a consultation is a deterrent. It is also normal to ask for a sick note for absenteeism on a Friday, Monday or any day preceding or following a public holiday.
Missed three days for a bad cold. Boss asked for a note. Explained I wasn't going to try to get an appointment (no same day appointments) and pay a copay to be told I had a cold. Offered to show her the store receipts for the many boxes of tissue, cold medicine and cough drops. And, if she wanted me to, I'd phone her and let her listen to my stuffed up voice, or the coughing and sneezing. She backed off, but said next time, I would need a note.
... These people would argue "I pay into sick leave so I should be able to be MIA whenever I want". I once had someone yell at me, say they were OWED to be paid (for again, not doing their job, and everyone should JUST BELIEVE that s/he needed to be off for good reason) - and found out later they flew out to another continent to party (no... not sick at all). Three days sounds like a balance before they kick you into the full "fill out these official disability forms" because any longer and yes - they DO need a good reason for you being off work for weeks on end (and still paying you). No. they can't just ask SOME people, because then that's bias and favouritism. If they got 5 days, how long until people start complaining "I deserve to be able to take a whole work week off without having to justify it"? They have to draw a line somewhere. Maybe fight for 4 days? (2/2)
So - I used to be a Disability Case Manager. Going to weigh in. I'm for both ends of the vote. It is stupid and it isn't at the same time. One day is ridiculous, two days ... okay... but you know you really have to have a cut off before you need "proof of illness". 3 days in a row actually isn't that unreasonable. If you think it is... thank the people who blatantly have abused the system to give themselves an "extra long weekend" - yeah happens more often than you'd believe. Because of past abuses, there has to be some sort of guideline to decide "at what point do we need proof the illness is significant enough to take that much time off?". Give an inch, take a mile. Truth: I had "fights" with those who be off due to mysterious "illness" for 3 weeks STRAIGHT - and feel entitled to be paid for not working (and no proof that they needed to be off). 1/2
In Italy it is normal to go to the doctor when you're sick. Doctor decides how many days you will need and the day you're off are paid to you by INPS
A doctor's note is not for the patient to know what he has. It's for the job place to make sure people are not faking a sick day to go to some random show. Surely it's not the case most of the times.
A Nurse at my work was dizzy and hypertensive The director made her have her blood pressure rechecked by a supervisor before she said it was okay for her to go home.
the poster is just a lazy person, every company has it rule to follow and sick for 3 days is normal to get a doctor's note. His/her company should fired him/her.
I don't get sick leave with my current job, but the last time I had a job with sick leave this was standard. One day you didn't need a note for, but two or more (or if you were sick on a Monday or Friday) you did. Standard practice in Australia.
it was all making sense until I read "they charge for the note"- of course, they need to get paid... but I could see that as incentive for some people being less than honest. doesn't seem like a good system
Had gotten the bug going around last week. Pushed through work week short staffed. Weekend bug hits me. Go in Monday because manager out in vacation this week. Push through Monday. No voice. Fever. Mess. Tuesday go in. Horrible. Make it two hours. Pump out jobs I had rushes on. Go home 9 am. (We start at 7. ) Out Wednesday. Out Thursday. Have to go back Friday because it being day three I would need a note. Not worth spending $185 at walk in clinic for a note. So pushed through it. Course the owner and foreman both were sick an took a week each without notes. Fml an thanks for getting me sick a******s.
A big shampoo company that I had worked for only gave you THREE sick days per calendar year. Those were for you and your kids. Then, if you actually used your sick days, then you got a "mark" on your record. I had a daughter that had surgery and I needed to be off for one week. That was fine, but I would get a "mark" for it. Then another daughter was in a car accident (hit by drunk driver) at 1am. I was at work, so I called my manager at home and asked him if I could leave and why. He said I could, but I would get a "mark". I'm like, "she was in a car accident!" He said that didn't matter, if I wanted a mark, I could leave. I told them Fk it and I left.
In the UK it's law that you can take the first 7 days of an illness "self-certified", i.e. you confirm to your employer yourself that you're sick. Any longer than 7 days and you'd then have to get a sick note from your doctor to be signed off for longer. If you don't qualify for company sick pay, you can get statutory sick pay of £94 a week. I'm lucky, my employer pays full pay for 6 months for employees of over 5 years.
The last thing a person needs when they have a cold or flu is to go to the doctor. They need rest, not sitting in a waiting room. Also, they will be likely infecting people along the way. As to the person who said they want a note to be sure you're not still infecting people, doctor's don't check you to see if you're still contagious! With a cold, you are likely not contagious if it's been more than 2 days since you had symptoms, and I believe with the flue, you are not contagious if it's been more than 24 hours since fever went down. (I don't know know about stomach viruses.) Also, with normal colds and stomach viruses, most people are exposed to this every day, so staying home is helping no one. (But the actual flu or something like Strep, yes, then it is a concern.)
This is why I like working for small mom and pop places. They will let you be sick. I worked at a place for less than a year when my umbilical hernia became a problem. I informed my boss way early that I would be out for 3 weeks in recovery. She had plenty of time to shift things around to make sure it was covered. Three months later, and I had to have another medical procedure..very little downtime. Never..during the entire process, was I asked for a doctors note. She thought it was childish to ask.
I always get a doctor's note if I miss any work hours. My young adult daughter is learning to do the same. I find that when I show up to work with a note in hand, management or administration is often flustered. They are accustomed to bullying employees into bringing notes, and I've taken away their chance to hound me.
I get 3 sick days a year, but we're supposed to call in 8 hours ahead of time. I go to work at 7 am. That means I have to know before I go to sleep if I'll wake up sick. If I get sick I never see it coming, I just wake up throwing up, or fever, or what have you. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to work that.
This has nothing to do with a doctor's note, but one time I worked as a delivery driver for Pizza Hut and on my day off it was was freezing and snowing and the guy who was supposed to work that morning said that his dad wouldn't let him drive the truck in that weather. Mind you, he was 42 years old at the time. A couple of weeks later, I come down with a bad cough and need someone to work for me. This guy was one of the only people available and said he didn't want to give up his day off. The manager had to work with a guy who wasn't very good at the job because she couldn't get this guy to cooperate.
same here in Canada, most government jobs actually require a note for 2 days in a row. Private businesses are 3 days
I'm in the UK 3 days out requires a sick note from the doctor because that's when statutory sick pay kicks in and its a legal requirement. I think this dude is a tool.
I honestly don't see a problem here. The company just wants to be secured that you're not skipping days whenever you feel like it.
This is normal. If I'm out for more than a day I have to get a doctor's note. If I go to the dentist or eye doctor, I'm only allowed to take a half day.
I work for the department of Veterans affairs (WCPAC). We have that rule. You miss 3 days you have to have a Dr.'s note.
I've always hated blanket policies. Instead of dealing with the one or two problem employees HR makes blanket policies that are totally nonsense. That is cowardice and lazy management. I had a job that had those kind of policies. I called in sick and they demanded a doctor's note, so I quit. Three days later they called me in, changed the policy and reinstated me. Of course, I was lucky that I did a job no one else knew how to do and no one wanted to be trained on it.
Good for you. Managers soon get to know who has a tendancy for pulling sickies. In the UK the NHS has far better things for their GPs to be doing than writing unnecessary sick notes.
Load More Replies... In my first year in the Navy I was hit by a nasty flu. I went to the base hospital and they gave me a sick chit for a few days off and I called my supervisor and he told me to bring the chit in. The office was on the other side of the base and base transport (I can’t remember why) was down at that time, so I had to walk a few km to the office. I was almost there when my supervisor drove down the hill and met me. I gave him the chit and he said “okay, go back to bed” then drove off. I had to walk another couple of km back to barracks.
Worked for an health insurance company. They did not want you being sick at the office (great). But they only allowed you to accrue 6 pts before you get written up (not so great). The points are accrued for each "occurrence". An occurrence is 1-3 days long. If you miss more than 3 days, it becomes a second or more occurrences. Our busiest time of the year is open-enrollment (Oct through Dec). It's a WICKED stressful time. Call volume increases by over 500% during the entire time. And when is flu season? Yep, you guessed it, right smack in the middle of open enrollment. Add to that, they make it MANDATORY to work OT to make up for the call volume. I get the business needs thing, but it's a recipe for disaster. They like to have a doctors note if it's more than 3 days to document the reason for an extended illness. They don't care if its 3 or less days why you're out. But, you absolutely MUST call in even if you are in a coma during those three days. No one else can do it
What means "pts"? And in which country did you work for a company like that? Getting in trouble for days where you are ill would be illegal in germany.
Load More Replies... It is c**p, but it also wouldn't be necessary if there weren't an overwhelming number of people calling in sick when they're not. I think every single person who has ever had a job has called in sick for a mental health day (aka, stay on the couch all day in your pj's and binge Netflix). Then throw in all the lazy a*s people who like to take advantage and abuse the system. You can see how it becomes a problem if there is no system of accountability in place. This costs businesses millions each year. If you're going to be out 3 or more days, then yes, you should need a doctor's note. In my entire career I've never needed that many days without seeing a doctor. It's not unreasonable. Both the employee and the doctor obviously don't see the big picture here.
In my company your number of paid sick days per year went up the longer you worked for the company. One older co-worker in my department had worked there for 20 years and we hardly ever saw her.
This is a lot of crying for nothing. So what you had to go to the doctor. Your company wants to make sure you are healthy and not a liability when you come back. This is common practice.
How is this an article? I mean - guy is sick. Calls in sick. Company asks for note. Guy provides note. I don't get this at all.
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