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Biology Professor Explains What “Biological Sex” Really Means, Starts A Heated Debate On Twitter

Biology Professor Explains What “Biological Sex” Really Means, Starts A Heated Debate On Twitter

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Sad to say, prejudice, discrimination and bigotry are still a thing in many societies, and part of it stems from people’s convictions regarding things like sex and gender identity.

In today’s case, it particularly ties in with how the term biological sex is thrown about to justify one’s beliefs on what and how humans ought to be.

Well, this one biologist explained on Twitter what biological sex actually is, that it’s not as clear-cut as some might believe it to be, and that it shouldn’t be considered a basis for bigotry and discrimination.

Sex and gender identity debates often include people throwing about the ‘biological sex’ term, which this biologist decided to explain in more detail

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Rebecca R. Helm is an Assistant Professor of Biology at the University of North Carolina, who studies ecology and evolution of how animals change through time.

Some time ago, she went to Twitter to tackle the term biological sex. You see, some people make it seem like it’s all very simple, but Helm breaks it down and shows just how simple it really is.

Biologist Rebecca Helm posted a tweet thread detailing how ‘biological sex’ isn’t as simple as some may think

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

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Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Now, there are several ways of approaching this: on a chromosomal, hormonal, or even cellular level. But none of them would allow you to reach a simple explanation.

Sure, you can say there are the XX/XY chromosomes and the SRY gene that really matters to sex here. But there’s also a chance where SRY can pop off the chromosome and your physical, chromosomal, and genetic sex might vary altogether because of this without you even knowing it.

Helm tackles all aspects of human biology, including chromosomes, genes, cells, and even hormones

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

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Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

And it’s the same level of complexity with the hormonal and cellular definitions too. There are abnormalities whereby women could be able to generate more male hormones than males themselves, but they would otherwise still look very much feminine. Would that make them male?

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Same goes with cells—there’s this thing with cells having receptors that hear sex hormones, but sometimes they don’t work. Does that make them stuck between two traditional genders as a non-binary?

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

As you might have guessed, the possibilities here are endless, where you can be a different sex on a genetic, chromosomal, hormonal, cellular, and even physical level. Yep, this is totally not complicated at all.

Helm concluded that hence biological gender shouldn’t be a basis to discriminate and judge people: “Biology is complicated. Kindness and respect don’t have to be.”

The twitter thread went viral, gaining over 55k likes and even being reposted elsewhere

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Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

Image credits: RebeccaRHelm

The tweet thread went viral among several communities. While some found this thread interesting and insightful, others were still trying to counter it on Twitter with constructive and not so constructive feedback.

Regardless, the Twitter thread gained over 55,000 likes and 27,000 retweets, and even found itself on Imgur, where it was viewed by another 80,000 people.

What are your thoughts on this? Let us know in the comment section below!

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jacquelinedartley avatar
Jacqueline Dartley
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OK, another biology professor here. There is no way you could look at one chromosome in a class. To look at chromosomes you need to do a karyotype of the persons entire genome, and that takes a few weeks. (And costs $$$$$) You cannot do that in a bio lab! Impossible. Also, I have never read about the SRY gene jumping (or translocating) from a Y to another chromosome to another chromosome.

beizhudi-serv avatar
Judes
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a Nature News article about the SRY gene jumping to the X chromosome. https://www.nature.com/news/2006/061009/full/061009-14.html

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ramosgem000 avatar
Mushroom Garden
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Okay, three things. Yes, yes, and most definitely yes! The world needs to hear this. <3

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry, but there are misconceptions and misguidances in that person's post. Lying (augmenting, embellishing and omitting information to fabricate a point) about biology is not what will bring ppl to be less prejudicial

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thandeit avatar
Random Panda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The amount of people going ‘but intersex people means there’s no sex binary’ are so exhausting. Sex is defined via gametes which is why we define sexes for everything that has gametes. So far not a single intersex individual has been found that produces a unique third type of gamete. Instead, most of them are infertile because of hormone issues or development of the sex organs issues. In the cases where intersex people are fertile, they produce one type of gamete that fits into the known male/female specifics, re: gamete size/mobility/number. We’ve not even managed to find a intersex person who ca do both types of gametes. The X/Y definition of sex is not universal and imagine science is well aware of that and thus has ANOTHER definition that so far fits everything from plants over insects to humans. TL;DR stop conflating gender and sex and intersex conditions which come with varying degrees of medical issues are not some kind of "gotcha".

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exactly. Intersex people exist and need to be treated kindly. But they arent a third category of sex. Our species only have two sexes xx and xy with certain individuals having developmental issues that makes them intersex. It would be like denying that humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes just because some people can have trisomies.

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raymartin avatar
Ray Martin
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is really very easy to ascertain your own gender - it is the gender that you feel you are. As for other people, if the question arises (and most times it has no reason to) then their gender is whatever their mind tells them it is. Sexual preference is a whole other question, and has very little to do with gender identity. So if you're ever wondering about another person's gender or sexuality, just remember this; unless that information is freely offered without coercion, or is somehow life-threateningly critical to the situation at hand, then it's none of your damned business.

hasilefisile avatar
ProfessionalTimeWaster
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree, it's nobody's damned business. It only is, when biological men start competing as women because they feel like one (it hurts women in sports) or when it becomes okay to give puberty blockers to children (it can mess them up) or when people go thru all that procedure to end up worse than when they started (they may end up worse than when they began transition) or when people get fired for not believing trans women to be women (it hurts free speech and employment opportunities).

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hasilefisile avatar
ProfessionalTimeWaster
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Some people have heart on the right side of the body. Some people's own immune cells attack their healthy organs. Some people grow 7+ feet high. Human body does not function 100% accurately as it's supposed to. Anomalies exist in nature. But can it be used to change definition of average or typical? Using the different biological sexes that exist to justify that the definition of typical biological men/women can be changed is disingenuous. If 1 in 100 people have 12 toes, that doesn't make 10.02 toes normal. But I agree with her live and let live - as long as it doesn't interfere with lives of others.

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes, of course, the rare cases are what define the species now.... also they forgot to mention that aside from the rarity issue, the SRY disorder leaves you sterile. The only time I suspected someone could have that disorder was a colleague that had never had her period and was 17 already. Also hormonal deficiency is not sex determinant. Would have been less misleading talking about XXYs or X0s. This person is not very sharp. With love, a Biologist.

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exactly. He took very rare cases and explained them as if they are common. There is only two sexes with ocasional people that have developmental problems. This does not mean in any case that people shouldnt express their gender freely. But it also doesnt mean that there are more than two sexes in our species. Signed another biologist.

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paulbudhram avatar
nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Talking about rare disorders is complicated, just like for any other disorder or syndrome. When there are no rare conditions involved is pretty simple (unless you want the full embryogenesys and hormonal interaction explanation)

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hszarafinska avatar
Hańka
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Demagogy... Described mutations are rare and should not be the base for generalizations. In the overwhelming majority of cases, biological sex is easy to establish. But, of course, we should be sensitive to other people

skv77 avatar
Ксения Синяговская
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

interesting fun fact: no one, like literally no one of trans people deny the existence of biological sex... For heaven sake, it is the cause of why we are that way, and why we are in that mess, and why we need medical treatment to just be ourselves.

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markont avatar
andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No. Females have vaginas males have penises with a very few individuals with different developments. Boy/girl express gender not sex.

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jonnan-west avatar
Jonnan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is all true, yet at some point you have to say that either the societal definition of sex, the definition that says an Olympic event that results in a woman's world record score, is not a club that anyone can just decide they are or are not a member of. Or alternatively, that it is. I don't have a genuine solution to that, but we really need to have one.

skv77 avatar
Ксения Синяговская
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Transsexualism is also not a club. You don't decide to be trans, because no one in the sane mind would ever choose it. You become trans because of prenatal hormones that affect a fetus in the womb.

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terileebruyere avatar
Terilee Bruyere
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

SciShow (on YouTube) posted a very good video on this topic that explains things a wee bit clearer, if anyone is interested.

maria-d-geibel avatar
andreavilarmelego avatar
confred78 avatar
Marlowe Fitzpatrik
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a cool explanaton from a German professor (?) about this (but in German, duh) on youtube, and yes, it's complicated! (Sadly forgot the name)

david_103 avatar
David Downie
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know and like trans people. All the conversations I've had with them have led me to believe that they (the ones I know) really don't give a s**t. They hate the way society (or just woke people) are trying to make allowances for them and change terms like mother and father. They generally like society as it is and just want to be themselves. Generally they hate the way they get blamed by society for trying to change it when actually nearly all of them aren't. We should respect differences but accept that you don't change everything for 1% of people

adriaanverhelle avatar
Adriaan Verhelle
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I totally concur the factual basis of your post. What I disagree with is that because of this complexity that exist in biology it is hard to determine the sex of every random person you meet. For every person that I know that has procreated in a natural way, I would say it is pretty easy to determine their actual biological sex. I would even take this a step further and say that just by looking at the external genitalia, you have a very high likelihood of getting someones sex right. This is true for the majority of animals, including humans. Trying to give a biological base for the gender narrative, although nobel, the number do not support this. Which is why I always suggest that we keep biological sex separate from gender identity.

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For girls is easy, got her period? Then it's female. For males, if the sperm contains spermatozoids than you can safely say it's a male. Not saying that azoospermic would not be male, or ppl with other conditions that leave them sterile are not their sex, of course. But if they are indeed fertile, you can safely tell the sex. But knowing ppl's sex is not important (unless for medical reasons, like prostate/cervical screenings and so)

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matthollis avatar
Matt Hollis
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes very complicated, if its confusing for me then what the hell is it going to be like for my kid when she gets to the age where they start talking about sexuality and gender, its going to throw her big time, I have no bias towards anyone but what I worry about is making big decisions so early on such as hormone therapy when they are at such a confusing age anyway.

parmeisan avatar
Parmeisan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Something that I didn't know for a long time either, is that "hormone therapy" for kids is not actually making any changes or any decisions. Adults can take hormones that make changes to their bodies. But no matter how sure a kid is about their gender identity, they will only take hormone *blockers* which simply delay puberty for a while. In cases where a child is having a major disconnect between their brain and their body, such a thing can be life-saving without there being any repercussions down the road if they change their mind.

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johnlm1981 avatar
John Montgomery
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great explanation. Unfortunately as evidenced by the comments, the people who most need to learn it never will.

blaasdf2 avatar
Hugo Raible
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you had read the comments which do not fit your agenda, you'd see that the explanation doesn't make much sense.

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jebheadrick avatar
Jeb Headrick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This article is misleading, if only from a philosophical and logical perspective. As I'm not a geneticist I'm not doubting the science the scientist, and by extension the author base their argument on, though a quick google search will show that there is debate about how often Swyers Syndrome actually occurs. Some estimate as low as 1 in 80,000 births, some as high as 1 in 20,000 births. Irregardless, I think both the author and the scientist quoted, are forgetting that an exception doesn't make a rule. If so, all of science and even rational thought would be put in disarray. We use general rules, though often with exceptions, to simplify and understand the world. Without some kind of framework or metric to organize systems and groups in the world, all becomes chaos. If we are to throw out all biological criteria in deciding the sex of an individual, should we also throw out our conception of colors? Approximately 1 in 12 adults suffer from a form of color - blindness,

cebenspe avatar
Solrac
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Actually, this has very little to do with gender self identification because people "affected" by those "anomalies" (I'm not trying to be disrespectful) in most cases won't even notice they have it because they look like "regular" men or women.

stephyg1980 avatar
Ms.GB
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh wait! Where are the comments from the people I see on other threads calling non-binary ridiculous?...Oh I guess they finally read a post on the internet and learned something that most of us already took the time to research and understand...

cebenspe avatar
Solrac
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The prevalence of SRY alterations is very low, in many cases probably people who have those modifications don't even know about it because they look like any other female or male. So most people (and by a large margin) who declare themselves binaries are not affected by what is explained here.

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ryanbeaty avatar
Ryan Beaty
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like this biologist took a rare situation and tried to explain away transphobia. Here's a few social points to consider. 1. Everything everyone does influences society we all live in. Stop saying it doesn't matter. 2. Trans don't deserve insults, violence or someone preventing them from being productive members of society. 3. Mental health: I've seen videos of people claiming to be wolves, ghost, a cat, or the white woman who felt black. Mental health eval should be considered anytime someone feels different than what they are to the point it affects their daily life. Not as an insult, but for their own health. But we can't talk about that because it's considered insensitive. Agree or disagree. No reason to be an a-hole to people.

boredpanda_99 avatar
SirWriteALot
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great post!! I know people can be whatever they want to be but I never knew about this many levels of sexual game of chance :-) Thanks!

jakeleehutch avatar
King Joffrey
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I respect people's right to identify with any gender and am more than happy to call them by their preferred pronoun. Sex is a different thing though and in my opinion is determined by which reproductive organs you have (I am of course aware there will be exceptions to this rule but in general only females of our species are able to give birth).

leehcolorada avatar
Leeh Colorada
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not about biology. We are humans, our relationships are based in culture besides nature

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Out of curiosity, I would love to know if I’m a chromosome female / hormone female, or whatever all the categories are. Who gives a shït really, it should just be a way of showing ourselves that everything isn’t that cut and dry. As a chick with a little extra testosterone, i don’t see the big deal really.

jebheadrick avatar
Jeb Headrick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To add to my earlier post: that's over 3 million people in the UK alone? So do we then discontinue our use of color labeling, because a rather large minority, have problems with the current system? If so, where do we stop? When is a rule an accepted rule, and when is an exception to be considered an exception? In writing this no one should make the quantum leap, because I disagree with the premise of this article, and label me homophobic, transphobic, or any other discriminatory term. I don't believe in discrimination, I'm simply making a point that this isn't a valid argument.

sjvmi87 avatar
David Retsler
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"biologist professor" Consistently using "sex" vice the correct "gender"? I seriously doubt this "expert" knows what the hell they're talking about. While agree ALL people should be treated the SAME, throwing bullshit like this into the discussion only makes it worse.

mollycoates2003 avatar
M.C.
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There are as many intersex people (those who don't fit neatly into a male/female binary) as there are redheads. Not SUPER common, but not rare by any means.

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Except that redheads have a specific mutation for their colour. Intersex have fetal developmental issues. It is not the same.

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j12181951 avatar
Jim Day
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wish I had Assist Prof Helm in my College Biology classes.

hgreig12 avatar
H G
Community Member
3 years ago

This comment has been deleted.

deborahbrett avatar
Deborah B
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If someone presents themselves as a woman, they're a woman. If someone presents themselves as a man, they're a man. If someone presents ambiguously, I'm socially awkward, and omit gender pronouns and gender-specific forms of address until their preference is clarified. I find it hard to ask for someones preferred pronoun and form of address, as I'm scared that someone I think is presenting ambiguously might actually identify as a man or woman, and I might hurt their feelings by implying that they don't look masculine or feminine. It would be nice to have a polite non-gendered form of address, instead of "Sir/Ma'am".

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How do you present as a woman though? By wearing lipstick, having tits, telling people you are a woman? You have to be able to define what a woman is first.

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bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a bit of reading, if interested: The Dana Foundation: https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/ Harvard: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/ Scientific American with links to some good resources: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

sindustrydesign avatar
Penny Kemper
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And he didn't even talk about having and extra y or X chromosome.... because that happens too.

yaolilylu avatar
Lily Lu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also some people have YXX, YYX, single X, and other genetic variations in the sex chromosomes. Nature is never clear-cut.

el_dee_1 avatar
El Dee
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'd heard a little of this before but never in this level of detail. I suppose this actually completely explains the wide range of identities that we see 'out in the wild' so's to speak. What I don't understand is why those who are unaffected by gender identity are so concerned about it? Does it matter if someone identifies as non-binary? Spolier - no, it doesn't..

tarracavenah_1 avatar
embarrassed american
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even with the science, a lot of people will still insist that they are right

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Specially when the science presented is destorted to fit an agenda. This post is really misleading. Sex in humans is only xx or xy with very small individuals that have developmental problems. Pretending otherwise is not scientific. But that does not mean that people shouldn't be free to express their gender as they want.

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moelewis avatar
Moe Lewis
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's nice to hear being intersex talked about as something normal, but I don't think that the term 'nonbinary' fits in here. Either this marine biologist is using a weird yardstick for what counts as 'nonbinary', or she's *really* glossing over how very detrimental to one's health lacking the average amount of both testosterone and estrogen one should have, especially when one is pubescent or a grown adult. Also disappointed she didn't go into brain sex, the mismatch between that and the body results in gender dysphoria - and of which is not really possible to be nonbinary, or totally split/lacking/fluctuating in physical structures.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's no reason for her to go into health issues as related to endocrinology. That wasn't the point of the tweet. And brain sex doesn't exist as you describe it. https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/

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michellehammett avatar
Michelle Hammett
Community Member
3 years ago

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Okay. She studies jellyfish..not hating on the MARINE biologist here for her expertise on jellies. But she is not a geneticist. And yes. There is sex (genetic and biological and physical) and then there is identity (gender). If this confused you, please see 150+ years of entire fields of sociology, anthropology, forensic science, and biology. If nothing else. Look at your bones. Forensic science doesn't lie about sex.

noneanon avatar
Random Anon
Community Member
3 years ago

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No disrespect but I won't attempt to figure this out. I don't want people poking their noses into my life then I shouldn't do it to others. Just live and let live I guess, that's it.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's the problem. People don't let other people live. Matter of fact, they spend their lives trying to take the rights away from people that don't conform to their ideas of sex and gender

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aaron-j-dettmer avatar
CowboyHank
Community Member
3 years ago

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The whole time I was thinking, "gosh. Genes and chromosomes are a lot simpler than I was led to believe. I wonder what took the Human Genome Project so long." Then I looked this woman up. She studies jellyfish and frogs.

truthmonster00 avatar
Truth Monster
Community Member
3 years ago

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If people got classified based on science as "nonbinary" or other classifications, this would be more relevant. I am curious to see how the data fits in with this.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

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moelewis avatar
Moe Lewis
Community Member
3 years ago

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Also if people are really so bent about the idea of not having a gender, something that given our current knowledge of how our gender is structured in our brains, can they try to do it with a peer-reviewed scientific study and not through a tweet chain from a marine biologist? This doesn't help trans folks, it just comes off as unsubstantiated and pandering.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

https://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468 https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

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anneking68 avatar
StrawberryParfait
Community Member
3 years ago

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What a load of utter nonsense. Biological sex exists, and it's observable. Gender is a social construct and a personal choice, biology is not. As long as male and female gametes are necessary to create a zygote to propagate life for the human species on this planet, I'll stick with actual science, not the new cancel-culture science.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What a load of crap! Science is science, whether you like it or not. Are you seriously suggesting that the huge collective of scientists with years of experience in their fields are just making things up as they see fit? That's the problem with you people, you don't trust science anymore because it makes observations that don't fit into your worldview.

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margaretflanigan avatar
Margaret O'Connor
Community Member
3 years ago

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"Some people have birth defects" is not an argument against the fact that mammals are gender binary. Some babies are born without most of their brain (anencephaly) but that doesn't mean people are not supposed to think. You (probably) have a brain. Use it wisely.

michel_2 avatar
Marcellus the Third
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So everything that doesn't fit in your black/white scheme is a birth defect? Sheesh. I bet there's only exactly one way to spell and one accent that's not-wrong, in your cozy world. It's almost as if you haven't read a single word of the article you're commenting on.

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zedrapazia avatar
Zedrapazia
Community Member
3 years ago

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I don't think any sexuality is bad or ridiculous, but I think this explanation was just made to follow the current trend to be a sexually open culture. Not a bad thing in culture, everyone should be who he wants to be, but this clearly doesn't belong into biology to me.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is science, based on informed interpretations of reproducable observations. Biology doesn't bend to your subjective morality. You sound like the people who don't believe in fossils.

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jacquelinedartley avatar
Jacqueline Dartley
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OK, another biology professor here. There is no way you could look at one chromosome in a class. To look at chromosomes you need to do a karyotype of the persons entire genome, and that takes a few weeks. (And costs $$$$$) You cannot do that in a bio lab! Impossible. Also, I have never read about the SRY gene jumping (or translocating) from a Y to another chromosome to another chromosome.

beizhudi-serv avatar
Judes
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a Nature News article about the SRY gene jumping to the X chromosome. https://www.nature.com/news/2006/061009/full/061009-14.html

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ramosgem000 avatar
Mushroom Garden
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Okay, three things. Yes, yes, and most definitely yes! The world needs to hear this. <3

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sorry, but there are misconceptions and misguidances in that person's post. Lying (augmenting, embellishing and omitting information to fabricate a point) about biology is not what will bring ppl to be less prejudicial

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thandeit avatar
Random Panda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The amount of people going ‘but intersex people means there’s no sex binary’ are so exhausting. Sex is defined via gametes which is why we define sexes for everything that has gametes. So far not a single intersex individual has been found that produces a unique third type of gamete. Instead, most of them are infertile because of hormone issues or development of the sex organs issues. In the cases where intersex people are fertile, they produce one type of gamete that fits into the known male/female specifics, re: gamete size/mobility/number. We’ve not even managed to find a intersex person who ca do both types of gametes. The X/Y definition of sex is not universal and imagine science is well aware of that and thus has ANOTHER definition that so far fits everything from plants over insects to humans. TL;DR stop conflating gender and sex and intersex conditions which come with varying degrees of medical issues are not some kind of "gotcha".

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exactly. Intersex people exist and need to be treated kindly. But they arent a third category of sex. Our species only have two sexes xx and xy with certain individuals having developmental issues that makes them intersex. It would be like denying that humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes just because some people can have trisomies.

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raymartin avatar
Ray Martin
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is really very easy to ascertain your own gender - it is the gender that you feel you are. As for other people, if the question arises (and most times it has no reason to) then their gender is whatever their mind tells them it is. Sexual preference is a whole other question, and has very little to do with gender identity. So if you're ever wondering about another person's gender or sexuality, just remember this; unless that information is freely offered without coercion, or is somehow life-threateningly critical to the situation at hand, then it's none of your damned business.

hasilefisile avatar
ProfessionalTimeWaster
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree, it's nobody's damned business. It only is, when biological men start competing as women because they feel like one (it hurts women in sports) or when it becomes okay to give puberty blockers to children (it can mess them up) or when people go thru all that procedure to end up worse than when they started (they may end up worse than when they began transition) or when people get fired for not believing trans women to be women (it hurts free speech and employment opportunities).

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hasilefisile avatar
ProfessionalTimeWaster
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Some people have heart on the right side of the body. Some people's own immune cells attack their healthy organs. Some people grow 7+ feet high. Human body does not function 100% accurately as it's supposed to. Anomalies exist in nature. But can it be used to change definition of average or typical? Using the different biological sexes that exist to justify that the definition of typical biological men/women can be changed is disingenuous. If 1 in 100 people have 12 toes, that doesn't make 10.02 toes normal. But I agree with her live and let live - as long as it doesn't interfere with lives of others.

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes, of course, the rare cases are what define the species now.... also they forgot to mention that aside from the rarity issue, the SRY disorder leaves you sterile. The only time I suspected someone could have that disorder was a colleague that had never had her period and was 17 already. Also hormonal deficiency is not sex determinant. Would have been less misleading talking about XXYs or X0s. This person is not very sharp. With love, a Biologist.

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Exactly. He took very rare cases and explained them as if they are common. There is only two sexes with ocasional people that have developmental problems. This does not mean in any case that people shouldnt express their gender freely. But it also doesnt mean that there are more than two sexes in our species. Signed another biologist.

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nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Talking about rare disorders is complicated, just like for any other disorder or syndrome. When there are no rare conditions involved is pretty simple (unless you want the full embryogenesys and hormonal interaction explanation)

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hszarafinska avatar
Hańka
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Demagogy... Described mutations are rare and should not be the base for generalizations. In the overwhelming majority of cases, biological sex is easy to establish. But, of course, we should be sensitive to other people

skv77 avatar
Ксения Синяговская
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

interesting fun fact: no one, like literally no one of trans people deny the existence of biological sex... For heaven sake, it is the cause of why we are that way, and why we are in that mess, and why we need medical treatment to just be ourselves.

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markont avatar
andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No. Females have vaginas males have penises with a very few individuals with different developments. Boy/girl express gender not sex.

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jonnan-west avatar
Jonnan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is all true, yet at some point you have to say that either the societal definition of sex, the definition that says an Olympic event that results in a woman's world record score, is not a club that anyone can just decide they are or are not a member of. Or alternatively, that it is. I don't have a genuine solution to that, but we really need to have one.

skv77 avatar
Ксения Синяговская
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Transsexualism is also not a club. You don't decide to be trans, because no one in the sane mind would ever choose it. You become trans because of prenatal hormones that affect a fetus in the womb.

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terileebruyere avatar
Terilee Bruyere
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

SciShow (on YouTube) posted a very good video on this topic that explains things a wee bit clearer, if anyone is interested.

maria-d-geibel avatar
andreavilarmelego avatar
confred78 avatar
Marlowe Fitzpatrik
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's a cool explanaton from a German professor (?) about this (but in German, duh) on youtube, and yes, it's complicated! (Sadly forgot the name)

david_103 avatar
David Downie
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I know and like trans people. All the conversations I've had with them have led me to believe that they (the ones I know) really don't give a s**t. They hate the way society (or just woke people) are trying to make allowances for them and change terms like mother and father. They generally like society as it is and just want to be themselves. Generally they hate the way they get blamed by society for trying to change it when actually nearly all of them aren't. We should respect differences but accept that you don't change everything for 1% of people

adriaanverhelle avatar
Adriaan Verhelle
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I totally concur the factual basis of your post. What I disagree with is that because of this complexity that exist in biology it is hard to determine the sex of every random person you meet. For every person that I know that has procreated in a natural way, I would say it is pretty easy to determine their actual biological sex. I would even take this a step further and say that just by looking at the external genitalia, you have a very high likelihood of getting someones sex right. This is true for the majority of animals, including humans. Trying to give a biological base for the gender narrative, although nobel, the number do not support this. Which is why I always suggest that we keep biological sex separate from gender identity.

nataliamorgadonardi avatar
NMN
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For girls is easy, got her period? Then it's female. For males, if the sperm contains spermatozoids than you can safely say it's a male. Not saying that azoospermic would not be male, or ppl with other conditions that leave them sterile are not their sex, of course. But if they are indeed fertile, you can safely tell the sex. But knowing ppl's sex is not important (unless for medical reasons, like prostate/cervical screenings and so)

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matthollis avatar
Matt Hollis
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yes very complicated, if its confusing for me then what the hell is it going to be like for my kid when she gets to the age where they start talking about sexuality and gender, its going to throw her big time, I have no bias towards anyone but what I worry about is making big decisions so early on such as hormone therapy when they are at such a confusing age anyway.

parmeisan avatar
Parmeisan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Something that I didn't know for a long time either, is that "hormone therapy" for kids is not actually making any changes or any decisions. Adults can take hormones that make changes to their bodies. But no matter how sure a kid is about their gender identity, they will only take hormone *blockers* which simply delay puberty for a while. In cases where a child is having a major disconnect between their brain and their body, such a thing can be life-saving without there being any repercussions down the road if they change their mind.

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johnlm1981 avatar
John Montgomery
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great explanation. Unfortunately as evidenced by the comments, the people who most need to learn it never will.

blaasdf2 avatar
Hugo Raible
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you had read the comments which do not fit your agenda, you'd see that the explanation doesn't make much sense.

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jebheadrick avatar
Jeb Headrick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This article is misleading, if only from a philosophical and logical perspective. As I'm not a geneticist I'm not doubting the science the scientist, and by extension the author base their argument on, though a quick google search will show that there is debate about how often Swyers Syndrome actually occurs. Some estimate as low as 1 in 80,000 births, some as high as 1 in 20,000 births. Irregardless, I think both the author and the scientist quoted, are forgetting that an exception doesn't make a rule. If so, all of science and even rational thought would be put in disarray. We use general rules, though often with exceptions, to simplify and understand the world. Without some kind of framework or metric to organize systems and groups in the world, all becomes chaos. If we are to throw out all biological criteria in deciding the sex of an individual, should we also throw out our conception of colors? Approximately 1 in 12 adults suffer from a form of color - blindness,

cebenspe avatar
Solrac
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Actually, this has very little to do with gender self identification because people "affected" by those "anomalies" (I'm not trying to be disrespectful) in most cases won't even notice they have it because they look like "regular" men or women.

stephyg1980 avatar
Ms.GB
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Oh wait! Where are the comments from the people I see on other threads calling non-binary ridiculous?...Oh I guess they finally read a post on the internet and learned something that most of us already took the time to research and understand...

cebenspe avatar
Solrac
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The prevalence of SRY alterations is very low, in many cases probably people who have those modifications don't even know about it because they look like any other female or male. So most people (and by a large margin) who declare themselves binaries are not affected by what is explained here.

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ryanbeaty avatar
Ryan Beaty
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Sounds like this biologist took a rare situation and tried to explain away transphobia. Here's a few social points to consider. 1. Everything everyone does influences society we all live in. Stop saying it doesn't matter. 2. Trans don't deserve insults, violence or someone preventing them from being productive members of society. 3. Mental health: I've seen videos of people claiming to be wolves, ghost, a cat, or the white woman who felt black. Mental health eval should be considered anytime someone feels different than what they are to the point it affects their daily life. Not as an insult, but for their own health. But we can't talk about that because it's considered insensitive. Agree or disagree. No reason to be an a-hole to people.

boredpanda_99 avatar
SirWriteALot
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is a great post!! I know people can be whatever they want to be but I never knew about this many levels of sexual game of chance :-) Thanks!

jakeleehutch avatar
King Joffrey
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I respect people's right to identify with any gender and am more than happy to call them by their preferred pronoun. Sex is a different thing though and in my opinion is determined by which reproductive organs you have (I am of course aware there will be exceptions to this rule but in general only females of our species are able to give birth).

leehcolorada avatar
Leeh Colorada
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's not about biology. We are humans, our relationships are based in culture besides nature

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Out of curiosity, I would love to know if I’m a chromosome female / hormone female, or whatever all the categories are. Who gives a shït really, it should just be a way of showing ourselves that everything isn’t that cut and dry. As a chick with a little extra testosterone, i don’t see the big deal really.

jebheadrick avatar
Jeb Headrick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To add to my earlier post: that's over 3 million people in the UK alone? So do we then discontinue our use of color labeling, because a rather large minority, have problems with the current system? If so, where do we stop? When is a rule an accepted rule, and when is an exception to be considered an exception? In writing this no one should make the quantum leap, because I disagree with the premise of this article, and label me homophobic, transphobic, or any other discriminatory term. I don't believe in discrimination, I'm simply making a point that this isn't a valid argument.

sjvmi87 avatar
David Retsler
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

"biologist professor" Consistently using "sex" vice the correct "gender"? I seriously doubt this "expert" knows what the hell they're talking about. While agree ALL people should be treated the SAME, throwing bullshit like this into the discussion only makes it worse.

mollycoates2003 avatar
M.C.
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There are as many intersex people (those who don't fit neatly into a male/female binary) as there are redheads. Not SUPER common, but not rare by any means.

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Except that redheads have a specific mutation for their colour. Intersex have fetal developmental issues. It is not the same.

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j12181951 avatar
Jim Day
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wish I had Assist Prof Helm in my College Biology classes.

hgreig12 avatar
H G
Community Member
3 years ago

This comment has been deleted.

deborahbrett avatar
Deborah B
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If someone presents themselves as a woman, they're a woman. If someone presents themselves as a man, they're a man. If someone presents ambiguously, I'm socially awkward, and omit gender pronouns and gender-specific forms of address until their preference is clarified. I find it hard to ask for someones preferred pronoun and form of address, as I'm scared that someone I think is presenting ambiguously might actually identify as a man or woman, and I might hurt their feelings by implying that they don't look masculine or feminine. It would be nice to have a polite non-gendered form of address, instead of "Sir/Ma'am".

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How do you present as a woman though? By wearing lipstick, having tits, telling people you are a woman? You have to be able to define what a woman is first.

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bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Here's a bit of reading, if interested: The Dana Foundation: https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/ Harvard: https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/ Scientific American with links to some good resources: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

sindustrydesign avatar
Penny Kemper
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And he didn't even talk about having and extra y or X chromosome.... because that happens too.

yaolilylu avatar
Lily Lu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also some people have YXX, YYX, single X, and other genetic variations in the sex chromosomes. Nature is never clear-cut.

el_dee_1 avatar
El Dee
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'd heard a little of this before but never in this level of detail. I suppose this actually completely explains the wide range of identities that we see 'out in the wild' so's to speak. What I don't understand is why those who are unaffected by gender identity are so concerned about it? Does it matter if someone identifies as non-binary? Spolier - no, it doesn't..

tarracavenah_1 avatar
embarrassed american
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Even with the science, a lot of people will still insist that they are right

andreavilarmelego avatar
Ozacoter
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Specially when the science presented is destorted to fit an agenda. This post is really misleading. Sex in humans is only xx or xy with very small individuals that have developmental problems. Pretending otherwise is not scientific. But that does not mean that people shouldn't be free to express their gender as they want.

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moelewis avatar
Moe Lewis
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It's nice to hear being intersex talked about as something normal, but I don't think that the term 'nonbinary' fits in here. Either this marine biologist is using a weird yardstick for what counts as 'nonbinary', or she's *really* glossing over how very detrimental to one's health lacking the average amount of both testosterone and estrogen one should have, especially when one is pubescent or a grown adult. Also disappointed she didn't go into brain sex, the mismatch between that and the body results in gender dysphoria - and of which is not really possible to be nonbinary, or totally split/lacking/fluctuating in physical structures.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

There's no reason for her to go into health issues as related to endocrinology. That wasn't the point of the tweet. And brain sex doesn't exist as you describe it. https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/

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michellehammett avatar
Michelle Hammett
Community Member
3 years ago

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Okay. She studies jellyfish..not hating on the MARINE biologist here for her expertise on jellies. But she is not a geneticist. And yes. There is sex (genetic and biological and physical) and then there is identity (gender). If this confused you, please see 150+ years of entire fields of sociology, anthropology, forensic science, and biology. If nothing else. Look at your bones. Forensic science doesn't lie about sex.

noneanon avatar
Random Anon
Community Member
3 years ago

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No disrespect but I won't attempt to figure this out. I don't want people poking their noses into my life then I shouldn't do it to others. Just live and let live I guess, that's it.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That's the problem. People don't let other people live. Matter of fact, they spend their lives trying to take the rights away from people that don't conform to their ideas of sex and gender

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aaron-j-dettmer avatar
CowboyHank
Community Member
3 years ago

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The whole time I was thinking, "gosh. Genes and chromosomes are a lot simpler than I was led to believe. I wonder what took the Human Genome Project so long." Then I looked this woman up. She studies jellyfish and frogs.

truthmonster00 avatar
Truth Monster
Community Member
3 years ago

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If people got classified based on science as "nonbinary" or other classifications, this would be more relevant. I am curious to see how the data fits in with this.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

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moelewis avatar
Moe Lewis
Community Member
3 years ago

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Also if people are really so bent about the idea of not having a gender, something that given our current knowledge of how our gender is structured in our brains, can they try to do it with a peer-reviewed scientific study and not through a tweet chain from a marine biologist? This doesn't help trans folks, it just comes off as unsubstantiated and pandering.

bex-finken avatar
Bex
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

https://www.pnas.org/content/112/50/15468 https://www.dana.org/article/cerebrum-sex-differences-in-the-brain/ https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/gender-lines-science-transgender-identity/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/

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anneking68 avatar
StrawberryParfait
Community Member
3 years ago

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What a load of utter nonsense. Biological sex exists, and it's observable. Gender is a social construct and a personal choice, biology is not. As long as male and female gametes are necessary to create a zygote to propagate life for the human species on this planet, I'll stick with actual science, not the new cancel-culture science.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

What a load of crap! Science is science, whether you like it or not. Are you seriously suggesting that the huge collective of scientists with years of experience in their fields are just making things up as they see fit? That's the problem with you people, you don't trust science anymore because it makes observations that don't fit into your worldview.

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margaretflanigan avatar
Margaret O'Connor
Community Member
3 years ago

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"Some people have birth defects" is not an argument against the fact that mammals are gender binary. Some babies are born without most of their brain (anencephaly) but that doesn't mean people are not supposed to think. You (probably) have a brain. Use it wisely.

michel_2 avatar
Marcellus the Third
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

So everything that doesn't fit in your black/white scheme is a birth defect? Sheesh. I bet there's only exactly one way to spell and one accent that's not-wrong, in your cozy world. It's almost as if you haven't read a single word of the article you're commenting on.

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zedrapazia avatar
Zedrapazia
Community Member
3 years ago

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I don't think any sexuality is bad or ridiculous, but I think this explanation was just made to follow the current trend to be a sexually open culture. Not a bad thing in culture, everyone should be who he wants to be, but this clearly doesn't belong into biology to me.

iapetosdertitan avatar
Iapetos
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It is science, based on informed interpretations of reproducable observations. Biology doesn't bend to your subjective morality. You sound like the people who don't believe in fossils.

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