‘Basic Trans Etiquette’ Goes Viral After Elliot Page Comes Out As Transgender
Interview With Author
The star Elliot Page made an announcement that’s rocking the internet. They shared on their social media pages that they’re transgender, talked about their new pronouns (he/they), and explained that, from now on, their name is Elliot. With other celebrities coming out in support of Elliot, others on the internet are raising the question of ‘basic trans etiquette.’
One of the people who created a handy guide on Twitter is Martin, a trans and queer creator from Canada. Their thread went viral with over a whopping 179k likes and more than 65k retweets in less than a day. Check out what Martin had to say below and, when you’re done, let us know what you think of Elliot coming out, dear Pandas. And scroll down for Bored Panda’s interview with Martin about their guidelines.
Elliot’s breakthrough role was playing the title character in 2007’s Juno. For this role, Elliot received nominations for the Academy Award, BAFTA, Golden Globe, and the Screen Actors Guild Award for Best Actress while publicly identifying as female at the time.
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Elliot Page came out as transgender to huge support on the internet
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Martin makes all kinds of videos on YouTube, does cosplay on TikTok, and is “working on living in the now.”
Elliot, an Academy Award nominee and “Juno” and “The Umbrella Academy” star, spoke about trans issues and thanked their fans and followers for their support. Elliot also pointed out how great it is to be their real self despite the discrimination that trans people face in everyday life.
“I feel overwhelming gratitude for the incredible people who have supported me along this journey,” Elliot said. “I can’t begin to express how remarkable it feels to finally love who I am enough to pursue my authentic self. I’ve been endlessly inspired by so many in the trans community. Thank you for your courage.”
They weren’t shy about pointing to the biggest issues surrounding trans people: “The statistics are staggering. The discrimination towards trans people is rife, insidious and cruel, resulting in horrific consequences. In 2020 alone, it has been reported that at least 40 transgender people have been murdered, the majority of which were Black and Latinx trans women.”
Elliot continued: “I love that I am trans. And I love that I am queer. And the more I hold myself close and fully embrace who I am, the more I dream, the more my heart grows and the more I thrive. To all trans people who deal with harassment, self-loathing, abuse, and the threat of violence every day: I see you, I love you, and I will do everything I can to change this world for the better.”
Twitter user Martin, who is trans, shared their trans etiquette guide
Image credits: unsolvedtwt
Image credits: unsolvedtwt
Image credits: unsolvedtwt
Image credits: unsolvedtwt
Image credits: unsolvedtwt
Martin told Bored Panda that it was jarring to learn that their thread went viral. “I saw that Elliot came out and I was super happy for him. And then I realized there would probably be a whole lot of people who just didn’t know the kind of stuff that I put in that thread. I wish it were common knowledge, and I hope there’s a day when things on that thread don’t need to be spelled out, but it unfortunately does,” they said.
“So I just figured making the thread would be an easy way to compile some basic stuff for allies who are trying to learn. I really didn’t expect it to blow up in the way it did, it got as far as Emma Portner’s Instagram story, which is wild. If I had known it was going to get that big, I maybe would have added just a quick guide on “he/they” pronouns. I use them myself, and there were a lot of people in the replies asking how to use them.”
Martin said that most of the replies they’ve seen about Elliot coming out online were positive. But not all of them. “There are some horribly transphobic replies just to my thread, people saying he was ‘playing make-belief’ and such. I went to look up Emma Portner’s Twitter to see if she had one, and all of the related tweets were asking intrusive questions on her sexuality. But I believe I’ve seen more positive than negative, which is a really good sign,” they explained.
Martin also shared a bit more about themselves. They’re studying in their first year of film school and they plan to put more effort into their YouTube channel when they get the time.
Others pitched in with their pointers
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Remember how you sometimes see a pet and say, "What a cute boy!" and the owner says, "It's actually a girl." And you say to the pet, "Aren't you a cute girl? Yes, you are!" Boom. It's as easy as that.
A good friend of mine comes from a conservative part of Texas and could be expected to have conservative views. But he doesn't and stands up for all kinds of groups. Re trans folk, he recently said "I don't understand it, but I don't have to. I just have to not be an asshole and let people live their lives with respect." I thought that was a great thing to state on his FB page in front of his friends many of whom do act like assholes to anyone they don't understand. It really is this simple. Don't be an asshole. Show respect. Done.
Yes, I think it's right to always treat others how you wish to be treated. If I disagree you are a woman I won't waste my time talking to you or saying to anyone I feel you are on the spectrum of mental illness affliction. A lot of the media online shows trans people and their advocates being aggressive. I think this is the exception which does become sensationalized. But in many of those cases the trans advocates would get knocked the fxxx out as grown men in my face like that.
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I have a cousin that went through this. The religious family members think they disowned him and us that support him, but we really disowned them. The few times the last few years we all have been together the religious ones would pull him aside, call him a her, say god does not approve of them, and throw bible verses. WHO NEEDS THAT??? They helped me decide to ditch Christianity. One of the many reasons. Luckily my immediate family(mom, brother and all my kids and their significant others feel the same way I do about my cousin and the rude family members. Love wins!!
A lot of people do not practice true Christianity. According to the Bible, if Christians do not care for their families they are worse than non-believers. (1 Timothy 5:8) However, trying to convert someone isn't wrong and is in fact ordered. (Matthew 28) However, it must be done out of love. Otherwise is basically means nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
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I'm pro trans. Hurray for being your true self. I absolutely mean that. But what these etiquette rules seem to say is, "We want to be totally accepted by general society but still want to be treated exceptionally. Let's start with the conventions of grammar, and references to the past, and see what other barriers we can erect around ourselves."
Good for you for being pro trans. I think the only problem with the etiquette rules is that a few vocal people think they speak for everyone who is transgender. I know that there is a minority of people that don't consider their 'deadname' as a taboo thing to utter, and prefer to use the term 'birth name' etc. But proponents of the term 'deadname' say using one is akin to violence, and I personally don't agree to that. Because it's basically attributing malice to every action, and that's never helpful. Some people may use the 'deadname' as a way to hurt the other person, but I'm betting the fast majority of people who slip up do it because they aren't used to the change yet. It's no different from your name being changed by deed poll, are you going to go nuts every time someone uses the old name? Intent matters. People who are outraged and presume intent don't do themselves or others any favors.
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How does this work in regards to his awards / accolades? For example, he won several "best actress" awards for his performance in Juno.
Maybe just say it like you say it here: he won the award for best actress in Juno.
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Help please I really don't understand. Exactly how can someone change their gender? I don't see how thinking it's different changes anything. If you have XX chromosomes you're a woman and if you have XY chromosomes you are a man (This is in general I know stuff like Swyer syndrome exists). There are other differences as well. That is just basic biology. I really do not understand this at all can someone please explain? It doesn't make sense to me.
Basically you are not wrong that people usually have XY or XX chromosome but these people feel like they were put in the wrong body. It can damage them mentally because of the body dysphoria coming from someone that identifies as a male but has breasts. This male can then have surgery to remove both breasts (double mastectomy) and then get surgery to remove their vagina and replace it with a penis. (I don't know details, just the basics.) And then they can start on testosterone which would override the estrogen and allow them to grow things like beards and thick armpit hair. Just more masculine stuff. It's the same for females, hormone treatments and surgeries. They can't change their DNA but they can change their hormones and outward appearance to match their gender identity.
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I was so excited to learn of this. He's just like me! He's proof that I can grow up and live my life as a he/they. And that may not sound like a big deal to some, but for someone else to be out there who is like me feels... validating for me and my confusing gender (not totally trans guy, but not totally non-binary... It's frusterating, I know). I love umbrella acadamy, and the fact tha Elliot plays one of my favs (sorry, but my FAV is Kluas... yeh I'm THAT bitch) is just... y e s p l e a s e. Thanks for reading this very confusing comment... I'm just a VERY bored feral child.
On the note of being polite in these cases, what happens if you slip up? I feel like it would be pretty common to have a slip of the tongue in the beginning and accidentally refer to him as "she" or still use their birth name just because you've done it for so long. Should you apologize after correcting yourself or simply correct yourself and move on?
Trans man here! As it said in the list, don't make a big deal over it. It's awkward & annoying. Just correct yourself & move on. "Wow, I love Elliot's work! She - I mean he - is so talented!"
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The person now wanting to be called Elliot has always looked deeply unhappy to me. I hope they find happiness.
I have a friend who is beginning the transition. Still experimenting at the moment, but it's super helpful to know how I can help them with it. :)
Everyone has a path that belongs to them and them alone. Don't interfere but support. We are all equal.
Genuine question from someone trying to understand....so we've worked really hard in society to break up some gender norms (gender being a construct) - so for it to be ok for girls not to be cute and fluffy, and to be into sports, science etc; and for boys to feel free to express their emotions, be openly empathic, to like dressing up etc, so what is the extra impetus that makes someone assigned female at birth convinced that they are a boy? And for non-binary, what is the difference between saying that you are nb to saying that you are a girl who's just not that into traditional gender feminity? I say this as a middle aged woman who has never been society's perception of 'feminine', so I'm confused.
Back to the being afab (assigned female at birth) feeling like a boy, this can happen because they are much more interested in typically masculine stuff or they hate their body, their breasts, butt, hips, vagina, etc. and just wished that it was a boys body. Some feel that they are a boy put in the wrong body, it really varies from person to person. I don't have anything more that related to your questions but feel free to ask me anything that you are confused or curious about. Hope this helps! 2/2
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Is he still going to play vanya as a girl? Or is vanya going to be trans too.
he is going to continue playing Vanya. as for if Vanya will be trans, that's up to Gerard Way to decide
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I have no problem calling him "he", but "they" still smacks my sensibilities because of everything that was taught to me about proper grammar and use of singular/plural pronouns. To me, "they" should mean more than one person. It's the change in grammar that's hard to get used to, not supporting the LGBTQ community, they have my total support!
For some they use the pronoun "they" because they feel like they are one or more genders or even no gender so he and she don't fit well. I'm non-binary (for the sake of simplicity, I don't want to get into the details of my gender) and use they/them pronouns because it matches my gender better, I really do feel like I have more than one gender so they would be plural. I really hope this helps!
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This... person who tries to tell people how they are supposed to wrongly speak is pretentious and condescending.
Use of the term Latinx is controversial. Many Latinos do not like it. People hear and think, "I'm cool and hip and never mean, so I will use this new word." Who says it's the "correct" new word? Not the Latinos that were interviewed on MPR. The majority did not like it. A "Latinx trans woman" is also known as a "Latina".
“Don’t use their birth name ever” is a bad rule, though. I mean, yes, going forward, refer to them as their new name, but people shouldn’t get bent out of shape if you say “Ellen Page came out as trans and goes by Elliot now.” If you NEVER EVER use their birth name, then it’s impossible for people to know who tf you’re talking about. So use it once to clarify who you mean, that should be allowed. I mean I spent too long trying to figure out who someone named Kayleigh was, people said she was trans, and refused to “deadname” her, so I had no idea who anyone was talking about and as a result thought she was a different person from Luke, meaning I was inadvertently deadnaming her by thinking Luke and Kayleigh were different people rather than the same person before and after coming out as trans. If someone had just said “Kayleigh is trans, she was born as Luke” that would’ve cleared things up and I wouldn’t have accidentally been insulting her for a while.
So I can’t STAND “don’t EVER use their birth name”. You should be able to use anyone’s old name to clear up confusion, like clarifying that James Rodriguez is James Roday, or country music star Charles Esten was known as Chip Esten in the 90s. Taking a second to clarify who you mean isn’t offensive, and then everyone realizes who you’re talking about and doesn’t accidentally think Elliott is just Ellen’s very similar-looking brother.
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Language related question (since my language doesn't distinguish "he" and "she", we have one pronoun for everyone). Why does someone want to be called both "he" and "they"? Also, why in English is it expressed in the format "she/her", "he/him" - do some people prefer "she/him" or they/her" or any other combination like that? Thanks for any reply :).
Someone can want to be called he/they or she/him because it relates better to their gender. For the sake of simplicity I'm going to say my gender is non-binary, I use she/they pronouns, which means that you can use she/her pronouns and they/them pronouns interchangeably. For example: "This is Anarchy, she is my best friend, I've known them for my whole life!" Notice how I used both she and they? Those are the pronouns I like and I don't mind if you use them interchangeably. And we use the format she/her or he/him because it shows both the contexts we'd use them, that's the best way I can put it. So she/her is used like: "She is really pretty." "Her name is Sky." And the same thing applies to he/him and she/they etc. We don't really use they/her because she/they makes more sense (as for as I know, it might vary from person to person.) I really hope I explained this well and that it helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask!
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Stop the hating lets look at the new and different way at this. Some of us hate the phobics and I do too. This is someone trying to express themselves and u phobics can't do anything about it. SO JUST SHUT UP AND STOP THE NEGATIVITY.
Whoever downvoted you can go f*ck off. This comment is pure gold.
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Some of the twitter comments on Elliot's tweet disgusted me. It makes me sad that so many people are so hateful even in 2020. It makes me wonder wtf is wrong with some people how they can be so scummy. It's not hard to just call him Elliot and use a couple of different words ffs. But you know what? One of the glimmering beacons of kindness in a sea of hateful comments, was from a pastor, of all people. This really stood out as absolutely amazing to me and proves religion is never a reason to be hateful to the LGBTQ+ community.
Where was all this righteous people when I was growing up fat and ugly and had to take ALL SORTS of SH#T and abuse???
Good for him, if that'S what he wants, but tbh I just hope he'll keep playing Vanya!
Just a quick "in defense of". When someone transitions, for many of their loved one's it is confusing. They are suppose to understand, but not ask. I think the above rules are a helpful reminder that some questions are rude, but there still needs to be understanding on both sides. You get pregnant, you get divorced, you get cancer, people are always going to ask uncomfortable questions, because they simply don't understand. Let's all cut each other a little slack.
Been here, done this. Slipped up, said, "girl" to a guy, and said, "S**t, sorry!" and he said, "No problem," and all good on both sides.
So as a non-native speaker, who grew up in a language that doesn't have gender pronouns: can someone please give me examples for "they/them" sentences? Would they be used when I'm talking about them? Elliot saying that his preferred pronouns are "he/they" is really confusing for me. Why not "he" and "him"?
By saying his pronouns are he/they, Elliot means his pronouns are he/him/his & they/them/their & can be used interchangeably. Examples: He is a talented actor; they are a talented actor. Look at him now; look at them now! Elliot deserves all of his awards; Elliot deserves all of their awards.
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(In the context of personal friends, not celebrities) What's the etiquette on complimenting someone's looks? It's still natural for a straight cis male to be attracted to a feminine face, regardless of their identification. I would worry that any honest (non-gendered) compliments could hurt them if coming from someone attracted to the gender they no longer identify as. I would hate to make a male feel like they're still an attractive female, but it might also be rude to never mention your friend's attractiveness at all. Imagine a cis guy telling Elliott he has beautiful eyes - might Elliott feel he's being seen as a woman because of the source?
It's different person-to-person, but as a trans guy I love getting compliments on things that aren't my chest, hips, & ass (I get enough of that pre & post transition) regardless of who says it. Though if one wants to be extra careful, "beautiful" has a feminine connotation & "handsome" has a male one. I would keep it gender neutral. Some of my favorite words are gorgeous, charming, fantastic, stunning, & lovely.
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What a load of BS all this trans stuff becomes. All the names and terms keep flying around faster than people can leaern them. Trans, fine. But all this queer, intersex, blah blah. Fine, I identify as a toaster.
It's really not that hard to learn once you take the time.
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YES PLEASE RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE TRANS COMMUNITY!!!!! I used to be trans and I used the name Kaleb for a while because it was close to my birthname Kyleigh, but my dad's middle name is Kyle so I did not want to use that. This is the first time that I ever brought up the topic that Iused to be trans.
I'm so excited and proud of Elliot, they've come so far! He's just like me, he's trans and I'm trans and they are just living their best life! God, I want that so bad..hopefully after I move out!
I have a friend from way back, even elementary school, that has transitioned a few years ago, and I have wondered the proper way to use pronouns when talking about the past (thier pronoun is he, however it was not back then.) Obviously I just wanted to do the right things, and I think the article kinda addressed this.
"Who's Elliott PAge?""Oh, they started in Juno" ... no, that's not easy, that's stupid. Elliott Page, mum, used to be an actress called Ellen Page, you saw her in Juno. Mum takes it naturally, now there's no more Ellen, now there's Elliott.
Thanks for posting this. As a pretty clueless older (cis) cat lady, I have often wondered what the most courteous, respectful ways to refer to/address trans folks are, and this is very helpful.
I'm glad he found peace with this. I always thought he had such sad eyes before. Hopefully this is the piece that was missing from his life, and I think Eliot is going to be great role model for folks in the trans community. For better or worse, putting a famous face on "controversial' topic can go a long way toward normalizing it. He's always struck me as a kind, well spoken human regardless of pronouns. Also Paul from the trailer park is an angel.
i love this. i have a couple of friends that are trans or non-binary and if I say or someone else says their pronouns wrong I immediately correct them or myself. i also might be agender but I don't really know. all I know is that I'm not really a girl or a boy.
I love that this moment has been used as a learning opportunity for lots of people. Everyone should know the basics of how to behave towards trans people to make them as comfortable as possible; they generally face enough hate from others as is (unfortunately). It must have been so hard for Elliot to come out (it must be hard for anyone) and I congratulate them. <3
Elliot Page did used to be Ellen Page, that's just reality. If you'd asked Elliot that years ago he would have said "I'm Ellen Page and I'm a woman. So why the issue with the facts of history here? Why are we even talking about how right or wrong it is to speak the truth about the past? If we ignore the past and say Elliot Page was always a man, are we then going to take that to its inevitable woke conclusion and ask why a man was allowed to steal numerous female acting roles over the years? Or are we just going to accept real liberal values to say anyone can be whoever they want to be. But that history does not need to be "cleansed" to achieve that. Nor should people demand complete control over everyone else's speech. Respectfully letting someone know that you now wish to be called by a different name or pronoun its one thing. Hordes of people angrily attacking people who dared to not say or act exactly in the way they group has just now decided they should is another.
W.H.O. classified transgenderism as a mental illness until 5/29/2019. What changed??? Link implies stigma was part of the reasoning. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
Ok, I'm ashamed, when my son told me this news, (my son is gay btw) My reaction was terrible and I regret it, I said oh wow what a waste, and I didn't mean it disrespectful, I meant is because I honestly thought he was so gorgeous as a woman, but it obviously came out that way, and I want to apologize to Elliot because I have loved him since he was in the Trailer Park Boys, I think he's amazing as an artist, and this has been a tense time between my 19 year old and I, and am glad that my children's generation is so more aware than we were
I can relate to some of the points in this article. Whenever I see or hear a friend's deadname I just get completely confused. Saying that "(deadname)" is now "(new name)" is weird because that's what they've always been. They have always been male and always will be.
Another honest question because this is not something I've ever personally experienced: Elliot's pronouns are he/they so we wouldn't say "his" as in "his movie Juno" we would say "their movie Juno" is this correct?
... etiquette for .... wow. This brings up the issue of equal rights versus entitlement. So many people protest and march for equal rights for the LGBTQ community and what they seem to not understand is that a lot of those rights are actually privileges. Being confrontational about etiquette is where it starts. At some point, someone is going to be offensive without trying to and someone is going to be super offended just because they can.
How is it privilege to not be referred to by our pronouns, name, and proper gender? We’re just trying to educate people about how to address us. And yeah, there will be someone who’s offended but that’s normal and happens in all spaces.
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Do as you like but don't get mad at us when we do something wrong in your eyes. And I'll never use they, you might as wel use it. Not about gender(s) but about being a (just 1) person.
How would u like it if someone called u an it.
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Yeah. People's perception of what normal is changes a ton over time. Which is probably why you shouldn't be it. Or maybe just that being normal doesn't really mean anything because after a while it won't be normal anymore. Who knows what normal will be in the next couple of years.
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I'll be laughing at ur funeral. I'm they and u will respect others.
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Obviously, a lot of people here cared. Some (including you) didn't like it and expressed it in the comments. Others did like that and expressed it. I just find it kinda ironic that you said no one cares. And I love irony.
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People aren't transgender for your personal attraction & you absolutely should not be obsessing over strangers' looks to the point of feeling a sense of loss when they change. They change to make *themselves* happy, not disgusting internet randos who call them sexy for just trying to peacefully exist.
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You are conflating gender, which is a human made label, with biology. We created gender terms and gender norms, thus, anyone can be anything-- we made them, we can undo them. Not being hateful, just trying to help you understand-- no one is saying that they can change sexual biology from birth, that isn't what this is about. If a boy wanted to wear pink all the time, would you tell him not to because pink is for girls? 100 years ago, pink was actually a boys color. We changed that 'rule' -- it really is no different. Gender norms are social constructs. This is basically like changing your name by deed poll, except your gender terms also changed. I'm sorry you feel like its being forced down your throat, but respectably, it's not about you-- because how someone transgender lives their lives doesn't personally affect you at all.
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It's not ridiculous. I can understand it can be confusing for a non-native speaker (such as myself) but it's not *that* weird. Almost anyone knows the saying "to each their own" and it's exactly that. I know it can be confusing but so can be many other language issues, just educate yourself, learn and change your behaviour accordingly.
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I think they will play the roles they want to play. Is it really important for a movie role what’s going on on the inside of a person? Can’t gay people play straight people anymore? Can’t 35-year-olds play 40-year-olds anymore? Can’t parents play non-parents anymore?
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It’s okay not to care, but it’s important to a lot of people. Trans people almost never see themselves and media and with every actor/actress that comes out, they get the opportunity to maybe see themselves for a moment on screen. They see themselves with a star studded job. They see themselves given accolades and credited in movies. they see someone who has broken the mold and has become successful. And that’s very motivating for a trans person. Especially when they are at the highest risk of homicide, homelessness, hate crimes, and suicide.
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Remember how you sometimes see a pet and say, "What a cute boy!" and the owner says, "It's actually a girl." And you say to the pet, "Aren't you a cute girl? Yes, you are!" Boom. It's as easy as that.
A good friend of mine comes from a conservative part of Texas and could be expected to have conservative views. But he doesn't and stands up for all kinds of groups. Re trans folk, he recently said "I don't understand it, but I don't have to. I just have to not be an asshole and let people live their lives with respect." I thought that was a great thing to state on his FB page in front of his friends many of whom do act like assholes to anyone they don't understand. It really is this simple. Don't be an asshole. Show respect. Done.
Yes, I think it's right to always treat others how you wish to be treated. If I disagree you are a woman I won't waste my time talking to you or saying to anyone I feel you are on the spectrum of mental illness affliction. A lot of the media online shows trans people and their advocates being aggressive. I think this is the exception which does become sensationalized. But in many of those cases the trans advocates would get knocked the fxxx out as grown men in my face like that.
Load More Replies... I have a cousin that went through this. The religious family members think they disowned him and us that support him, but we really disowned them. The few times the last few years we all have been together the religious ones would pull him aside, call him a her, say god does not approve of them, and throw bible verses. WHO NEEDS THAT??? They helped me decide to ditch Christianity. One of the many reasons. Luckily my immediate family(mom, brother and all my kids and their significant others feel the same way I do about my cousin and the rude family members. Love wins!!
A lot of people do not practice true Christianity. According to the Bible, if Christians do not care for their families they are worse than non-believers. (1 Timothy 5:8) However, trying to convert someone isn't wrong and is in fact ordered. (Matthew 28) However, it must be done out of love. Otherwise is basically means nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
Load More Replies... I'm pro trans. Hurray for being your true self. I absolutely mean that. But what these etiquette rules seem to say is, "We want to be totally accepted by general society but still want to be treated exceptionally. Let's start with the conventions of grammar, and references to the past, and see what other barriers we can erect around ourselves."
Good for you for being pro trans. I think the only problem with the etiquette rules is that a few vocal people think they speak for everyone who is transgender. I know that there is a minority of people that don't consider their 'deadname' as a taboo thing to utter, and prefer to use the term 'birth name' etc. But proponents of the term 'deadname' say using one is akin to violence, and I personally don't agree to that. Because it's basically attributing malice to every action, and that's never helpful. Some people may use the 'deadname' as a way to hurt the other person, but I'm betting the fast majority of people who slip up do it because they aren't used to the change yet. It's no different from your name being changed by deed poll, are you going to go nuts every time someone uses the old name? Intent matters. People who are outraged and presume intent don't do themselves or others any favors.
Load More Replies... How does this work in regards to his awards / accolades? For example, he won several "best actress" awards for his performance in Juno.
Maybe just say it like you say it here: he won the award for best actress in Juno.
Load More Replies... Help please I really don't understand. Exactly how can someone change their gender? I don't see how thinking it's different changes anything. If you have XX chromosomes you're a woman and if you have XY chromosomes you are a man (This is in general I know stuff like Swyer syndrome exists). There are other differences as well. That is just basic biology. I really do not understand this at all can someone please explain? It doesn't make sense to me.
Basically you are not wrong that people usually have XY or XX chromosome but these people feel like they were put in the wrong body. It can damage them mentally because of the body dysphoria coming from someone that identifies as a male but has breasts. This male can then have surgery to remove both breasts (double mastectomy) and then get surgery to remove their vagina and replace it with a penis. (I don't know details, just the basics.) And then they can start on testosterone which would override the estrogen and allow them to grow things like beards and thick armpit hair. Just more masculine stuff. It's the same for females, hormone treatments and surgeries. They can't change their DNA but they can change their hormones and outward appearance to match their gender identity.
Load More Replies... I was so excited to learn of this. He's just like me! He's proof that I can grow up and live my life as a he/they. And that may not sound like a big deal to some, but for someone else to be out there who is like me feels... validating for me and my confusing gender (not totally trans guy, but not totally non-binary... It's frusterating, I know). I love umbrella acadamy, and the fact tha Elliot plays one of my favs (sorry, but my FAV is Kluas... yeh I'm THAT bitch) is just... y e s p l e a s e. Thanks for reading this very confusing comment... I'm just a VERY bored feral child.
On the note of being polite in these cases, what happens if you slip up? I feel like it would be pretty common to have a slip of the tongue in the beginning and accidentally refer to him as "she" or still use their birth name just because you've done it for so long. Should you apologize after correcting yourself or simply correct yourself and move on?
Trans man here! As it said in the list, don't make a big deal over it. It's awkward & annoying. Just correct yourself & move on. "Wow, I love Elliot's work! She - I mean he - is so talented!"
Load More Replies... The person now wanting to be called Elliot has always looked deeply unhappy to me. I hope they find happiness.
I have a friend who is beginning the transition. Still experimenting at the moment, but it's super helpful to know how I can help them with it. :)
Everyone has a path that belongs to them and them alone. Don't interfere but support. We are all equal.
Genuine question from someone trying to understand....so we've worked really hard in society to break up some gender norms (gender being a construct) - so for it to be ok for girls not to be cute and fluffy, and to be into sports, science etc; and for boys to feel free to express their emotions, be openly empathic, to like dressing up etc, so what is the extra impetus that makes someone assigned female at birth convinced that they are a boy? And for non-binary, what is the difference between saying that you are nb to saying that you are a girl who's just not that into traditional gender feminity? I say this as a middle aged woman who has never been society's perception of 'feminine', so I'm confused.
Back to the being afab (assigned female at birth) feeling like a boy, this can happen because they are much more interested in typically masculine stuff or they hate their body, their breasts, butt, hips, vagina, etc. and just wished that it was a boys body. Some feel that they are a boy put in the wrong body, it really varies from person to person. I don't have anything more that related to your questions but feel free to ask me anything that you are confused or curious about. Hope this helps! 2/2
Load More Replies... Is he still going to play vanya as a girl? Or is vanya going to be trans too.
he is going to continue playing Vanya. as for if Vanya will be trans, that's up to Gerard Way to decide
Load More Replies... I have no problem calling him "he", but "they" still smacks my sensibilities because of everything that was taught to me about proper grammar and use of singular/plural pronouns. To me, "they" should mean more than one person. It's the change in grammar that's hard to get used to, not supporting the LGBTQ community, they have my total support!
For some they use the pronoun "they" because they feel like they are one or more genders or even no gender so he and she don't fit well. I'm non-binary (for the sake of simplicity, I don't want to get into the details of my gender) and use they/them pronouns because it matches my gender better, I really do feel like I have more than one gender so they would be plural. I really hope this helps!
Load More Replies... This... person who tries to tell people how they are supposed to wrongly speak is pretentious and condescending.
Use of the term Latinx is controversial. Many Latinos do not like it. People hear and think, "I'm cool and hip and never mean, so I will use this new word." Who says it's the "correct" new word? Not the Latinos that were interviewed on MPR. The majority did not like it. A "Latinx trans woman" is also known as a "Latina".
“Don’t use their birth name ever” is a bad rule, though. I mean, yes, going forward, refer to them as their new name, but people shouldn’t get bent out of shape if you say “Ellen Page came out as trans and goes by Elliot now.” If you NEVER EVER use their birth name, then it’s impossible for people to know who tf you’re talking about. So use it once to clarify who you mean, that should be allowed. I mean I spent too long trying to figure out who someone named Kayleigh was, people said she was trans, and refused to “deadname” her, so I had no idea who anyone was talking about and as a result thought she was a different person from Luke, meaning I was inadvertently deadnaming her by thinking Luke and Kayleigh were different people rather than the same person before and after coming out as trans. If someone had just said “Kayleigh is trans, she was born as Luke” that would’ve cleared things up and I wouldn’t have accidentally been insulting her for a while.
So I can’t STAND “don’t EVER use their birth name”. You should be able to use anyone’s old name to clear up confusion, like clarifying that James Rodriguez is James Roday, or country music star Charles Esten was known as Chip Esten in the 90s. Taking a second to clarify who you mean isn’t offensive, and then everyone realizes who you’re talking about and doesn’t accidentally think Elliott is just Ellen’s very similar-looking brother.
Load More Replies... Language related question (since my language doesn't distinguish "he" and "she", we have one pronoun for everyone). Why does someone want to be called both "he" and "they"? Also, why in English is it expressed in the format "she/her", "he/him" - do some people prefer "she/him" or they/her" or any other combination like that? Thanks for any reply :).
Someone can want to be called he/they or she/him because it relates better to their gender. For the sake of simplicity I'm going to say my gender is non-binary, I use she/they pronouns, which means that you can use she/her pronouns and they/them pronouns interchangeably. For example: "This is Anarchy, she is my best friend, I've known them for my whole life!" Notice how I used both she and they? Those are the pronouns I like and I don't mind if you use them interchangeably. And we use the format she/her or he/him because it shows both the contexts we'd use them, that's the best way I can put it. So she/her is used like: "She is really pretty." "Her name is Sky." And the same thing applies to he/him and she/they etc. We don't really use they/her because she/they makes more sense (as for as I know, it might vary from person to person.) I really hope I explained this well and that it helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask!
Load More Replies... Stop the hating lets look at the new and different way at this. Some of us hate the phobics and I do too. This is someone trying to express themselves and u phobics can't do anything about it. SO JUST SHUT UP AND STOP THE NEGATIVITY.
Whoever downvoted you can go f*ck off. This comment is pure gold.
Load More Replies... Some of the twitter comments on Elliot's tweet disgusted me. It makes me sad that so many people are so hateful even in 2020. It makes me wonder wtf is wrong with some people how they can be so scummy. It's not hard to just call him Elliot and use a couple of different words ffs. But you know what? One of the glimmering beacons of kindness in a sea of hateful comments, was from a pastor, of all people. This really stood out as absolutely amazing to me and proves religion is never a reason to be hateful to the LGBTQ+ community.
Where was all this righteous people when I was growing up fat and ugly and had to take ALL SORTS of SH#T and abuse???
Good for him, if that'S what he wants, but tbh I just hope he'll keep playing Vanya!
Just a quick "in defense of". When someone transitions, for many of their loved one's it is confusing. They are suppose to understand, but not ask. I think the above rules are a helpful reminder that some questions are rude, but there still needs to be understanding on both sides. You get pregnant, you get divorced, you get cancer, people are always going to ask uncomfortable questions, because they simply don't understand. Let's all cut each other a little slack.
Been here, done this. Slipped up, said, "girl" to a guy, and said, "S**t, sorry!" and he said, "No problem," and all good on both sides.
So as a non-native speaker, who grew up in a language that doesn't have gender pronouns: can someone please give me examples for "they/them" sentences? Would they be used when I'm talking about them? Elliot saying that his preferred pronouns are "he/they" is really confusing for me. Why not "he" and "him"?
By saying his pronouns are he/they, Elliot means his pronouns are he/him/his & they/them/their & can be used interchangeably. Examples: He is a talented actor; they are a talented actor. Look at him now; look at them now! Elliot deserves all of his awards; Elliot deserves all of their awards.
Load More Replies... (In the context of personal friends, not celebrities) What's the etiquette on complimenting someone's looks? It's still natural for a straight cis male to be attracted to a feminine face, regardless of their identification. I would worry that any honest (non-gendered) compliments could hurt them if coming from someone attracted to the gender they no longer identify as. I would hate to make a male feel like they're still an attractive female, but it might also be rude to never mention your friend's attractiveness at all. Imagine a cis guy telling Elliott he has beautiful eyes - might Elliott feel he's being seen as a woman because of the source?
It's different person-to-person, but as a trans guy I love getting compliments on things that aren't my chest, hips, & ass (I get enough of that pre & post transition) regardless of who says it. Though if one wants to be extra careful, "beautiful" has a feminine connotation & "handsome" has a male one. I would keep it gender neutral. Some of my favorite words are gorgeous, charming, fantastic, stunning, & lovely.
Load More Replies... What a load of BS all this trans stuff becomes. All the names and terms keep flying around faster than people can leaern them. Trans, fine. But all this queer, intersex, blah blah. Fine, I identify as a toaster.
It's really not that hard to learn once you take the time.
Load More Replies... YES PLEASE RAISE AWARENESS ABOUT THE TRANS COMMUNITY!!!!! I used to be trans and I used the name Kaleb for a while because it was close to my birthname Kyleigh, but my dad's middle name is Kyle so I did not want to use that. This is the first time that I ever brought up the topic that Iused to be trans.
I'm so excited and proud of Elliot, they've come so far! He's just like me, he's trans and I'm trans and they are just living their best life! God, I want that so bad..hopefully after I move out!
I have a friend from way back, even elementary school, that has transitioned a few years ago, and I have wondered the proper way to use pronouns when talking about the past (thier pronoun is he, however it was not back then.) Obviously I just wanted to do the right things, and I think the article kinda addressed this.
"Who's Elliott PAge?""Oh, they started in Juno" ... no, that's not easy, that's stupid. Elliott Page, mum, used to be an actress called Ellen Page, you saw her in Juno. Mum takes it naturally, now there's no more Ellen, now there's Elliott.
Thanks for posting this. As a pretty clueless older (cis) cat lady, I have often wondered what the most courteous, respectful ways to refer to/address trans folks are, and this is very helpful.
I'm glad he found peace with this. I always thought he had such sad eyes before. Hopefully this is the piece that was missing from his life, and I think Eliot is going to be great role model for folks in the trans community. For better or worse, putting a famous face on "controversial' topic can go a long way toward normalizing it. He's always struck me as a kind, well spoken human regardless of pronouns. Also Paul from the trailer park is an angel.
i love this. i have a couple of friends that are trans or non-binary and if I say or someone else says their pronouns wrong I immediately correct them or myself. i also might be agender but I don't really know. all I know is that I'm not really a girl or a boy.
I love that this moment has been used as a learning opportunity for lots of people. Everyone should know the basics of how to behave towards trans people to make them as comfortable as possible; they generally face enough hate from others as is (unfortunately). It must have been so hard for Elliot to come out (it must be hard for anyone) and I congratulate them. <3
Elliot Page did used to be Ellen Page, that's just reality. If you'd asked Elliot that years ago he would have said "I'm Ellen Page and I'm a woman. So why the issue with the facts of history here? Why are we even talking about how right or wrong it is to speak the truth about the past? If we ignore the past and say Elliot Page was always a man, are we then going to take that to its inevitable woke conclusion and ask why a man was allowed to steal numerous female acting roles over the years? Or are we just going to accept real liberal values to say anyone can be whoever they want to be. But that history does not need to be "cleansed" to achieve that. Nor should people demand complete control over everyone else's speech. Respectfully letting someone know that you now wish to be called by a different name or pronoun its one thing. Hordes of people angrily attacking people who dared to not say or act exactly in the way they group has just now decided they should is another.
W.H.O. classified transgenderism as a mental illness until 5/29/2019. What changed??? Link implies stigma was part of the reasoning. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-48448804
Ok, I'm ashamed, when my son told me this news, (my son is gay btw) My reaction was terrible and I regret it, I said oh wow what a waste, and I didn't mean it disrespectful, I meant is because I honestly thought he was so gorgeous as a woman, but it obviously came out that way, and I want to apologize to Elliot because I have loved him since he was in the Trailer Park Boys, I think he's amazing as an artist, and this has been a tense time between my 19 year old and I, and am glad that my children's generation is so more aware than we were
I can relate to some of the points in this article. Whenever I see or hear a friend's deadname I just get completely confused. Saying that "(deadname)" is now "(new name)" is weird because that's what they've always been. They have always been male and always will be.
Another honest question because this is not something I've ever personally experienced: Elliot's pronouns are he/they so we wouldn't say "his" as in "his movie Juno" we would say "their movie Juno" is this correct?
... etiquette for .... wow. This brings up the issue of equal rights versus entitlement. So many people protest and march for equal rights for the LGBTQ community and what they seem to not understand is that a lot of those rights are actually privileges. Being confrontational about etiquette is where it starts. At some point, someone is going to be offensive without trying to and someone is going to be super offended just because they can.
How is it privilege to not be referred to by our pronouns, name, and proper gender? We’re just trying to educate people about how to address us. And yeah, there will be someone who’s offended but that’s normal and happens in all spaces.
Load More Replies... Do as you like but don't get mad at us when we do something wrong in your eyes. And I'll never use they, you might as wel use it. Not about gender(s) but about being a (just 1) person.
How would u like it if someone called u an it.
Load More Replies... Yeah. People's perception of what normal is changes a ton over time. Which is probably why you shouldn't be it. Or maybe just that being normal doesn't really mean anything because after a while it won't be normal anymore. Who knows what normal will be in the next couple of years.
Load More Replies... I'll be laughing at ur funeral. I'm they and u will respect others.
Load More Replies... Obviously, a lot of people here cared. Some (including you) didn't like it and expressed it in the comments. Others did like that and expressed it. I just find it kinda ironic that you said no one cares. And I love irony.
Load More Replies... People aren't transgender for your personal attraction & you absolutely should not be obsessing over strangers' looks to the point of feeling a sense of loss when they change. They change to make *themselves* happy, not disgusting internet randos who call them sexy for just trying to peacefully exist.
Load More Replies... You are conflating gender, which is a human made label, with biology. We created gender terms and gender norms, thus, anyone can be anything-- we made them, we can undo them. Not being hateful, just trying to help you understand-- no one is saying that they can change sexual biology from birth, that isn't what this is about. If a boy wanted to wear pink all the time, would you tell him not to because pink is for girls? 100 years ago, pink was actually a boys color. We changed that 'rule' -- it really is no different. Gender norms are social constructs. This is basically like changing your name by deed poll, except your gender terms also changed. I'm sorry you feel like its being forced down your throat, but respectably, it's not about you-- because how someone transgender lives their lives doesn't personally affect you at all.
Load More Replies... It's not ridiculous. I can understand it can be confusing for a non-native speaker (such as myself) but it's not *that* weird. Almost anyone knows the saying "to each their own" and it's exactly that. I know it can be confusing but so can be many other language issues, just educate yourself, learn and change your behaviour accordingly.
Load More Replies... I think they will play the roles they want to play. Is it really important for a movie role what’s going on on the inside of a person? Can’t gay people play straight people anymore? Can’t 35-year-olds play 40-year-olds anymore? Can’t parents play non-parents anymore?
Load More Replies... It’s okay not to care, but it’s important to a lot of people. Trans people almost never see themselves and media and with every actor/actress that comes out, they get the opportunity to maybe see themselves for a moment on screen. They see themselves with a star studded job. They see themselves given accolades and credited in movies. they see someone who has broken the mold and has become successful. And that’s very motivating for a trans person. Especially when they are at the highest risk of homicide, homelessness, hate crimes, and suicide.
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