No Tears: Estonians Respond To Lithuanians Who Weep For Mandatory Military Service
In response to: 14 Powerful Portraits of Men Expressing Their Feelings Against Mandatory Military Service in Lithuania
Dear Lithuanian Friends,
Your 14 powerful portraits of men expressing their feelings towards conscription service proved to be really powerful, but perhaps not in a way you envisioned.
We are both small, freedom-loving nations living in a dangerous neighborhood. It is only our determination, our love of freedom and our way of life, for our home and the dear ones that can uphold the peace and the freedom for us and our children. To this end, it is essential to be ready and determined to defend our freedom.
The Estonian Defense League is a voluntary military organization consisting of people like me and you, of people who have chosen to spend part of their time on serving their country. We learn and train to then shed our uniforms and continue our lives as teachers, drivers, lawyers, architects, etc. We believe the best response to the powers feeding on fear and aggression is to be prepared, and then go on with our lives.
We have taken these 16 portraits to support you and say: you do not have to be a gun nut, you do not need to prove your manliness, an assault rifle or a grenade launcher does not have to give you boners. You just have to love freedom!
Lauri and Kaupo, on behalf of our friends, the citizens of Estonia, and members of the Defense League.
More info: kaupokikkas.com
Kaupo, IT project manager
Kaarin, services developer
Paap, restaurant entrepreneur
Marianne, student
Lauri, PR specialist
Vladimir, engineer
Mihkel, student
Marcello, designer
Marko, logistics manager
Raivo, technical manager
Indrek, webmaster
Viktor, student
Martin, IT manager
Olle, barman
Marko, member of parliament
Indrek, architect
50Kviews
Share on FacebookYou know, military service is compulsory in Estonia as well, has been so for a long time...
Load More Replies...There is fine difference between conscription and volunteering. If freedom of choice has to be taken away from normal citizens, to grant freedom for same normal citizens, people definitely gonna ask - is this kind of "freedom" worth fighting for?
The point here is that the Lithuanian's did not have a choice. If we are fighting for FREEDOM, then part of being FREE is being FREE to make your own choices...
This people obviously chose their profession! To compare yourself to people who were forced to separate from their normal life (and loved ones), to be disciplined, controlled and be forced to do things they do not want to do... all that without warning!!! this mandatory military service came out of the blue for them! That is in my honest opinion, simply disgusting. I'm happy that you seem to enjoy your job, but not everyone is like you. God knows I couldn't do military. And not because I'm not fit physically. I'd cry if I was drafted.
"We are both small, freedom-loving nations living in a dangerous neighborhood." Lemme see.... Finland, Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Poland... Mmmh.... Yeah, very very dangerous.... u_u
The point here is that the Lithuanian's were not given a choice, loving FREEDOM and fighting for it, is about being able to BE FREE. Being MADE to do anything means that you are not FREE to make the choice. It still blows my mind that anyone, anywhere is at war. The main thing throughout the time that humans have existed on this earth that never goes away is violence. Why is it taking everyone so long to stop the violence, stop the fighting, stop the loss of so much life, the ruin of beautiful places!?
"Why is it taking everyone so long to stop the violence, stop the fighting, stop the loss of so much life, the ruin of beautiful places!?" Response: It is in the nature of people to love and hate. Some of us have more stable feelings than others (of love, hate or both). AND GREED ! We'll always be at the same evolutionary stage: somewhere between animals and GOD.
Load More Replies...Watch this from the beginning till the end and do the photo-shoot again: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=79f_1410873035
Having Marko serving is a great way to show the leadership credentials he has. Being willing to fight in the wars that his government sends troops to. Of course that is the kind of Representative that every government needs.
Really the most powerful image is the member of parliament being ready to serve alongside his countrymen. That is what a leader is gents.
Live free or die. There are worse evils than death. Conscription is not one of them in Estonia. They do live in a rough neighborhood mainly because of Russia. I'm sure they put up with conscription much the same as they put up with austerity measures because they realize it's far better than being under the USSR. they truly understand what freedom is because they have lived without it and I'm sure the memories of the old Soviet Union are still fresh. More weak minded Americans with no concept of history and no understanding of the real value of peace, freedom, and civic virtue.
Easy to say "You just have to love freedom!" when you're not serving under a country infamous for fighting for-profit wars on behalf of multinational conglomerates - Wars based on lies and used your children like cannon fodder so some c**t at Halliburton can be even more obscenely rich through military contracts.
Go ahead and read about the sanctions in Iraq from 1990 to 2003. Would like to know how you would have done better
Load More Replies...They're just trying to prove something. They are trying to make lithuanians look stupid and scared. In my oppinion, this is some internet b******t. One does not smile or laugh, or feel good, knowing that he will see the most horrible things, blood, wounds, tears and death.
Talk to yourself, Antonia. I went through my mil-service already years ago, and would gladly go back now, with smile. The job of the DEFENSE Forces is to keep that blood, wounds, tears and death away from your country, and allow your kind of delusional "normal people" to keep living their "normal" lives, going to their "normal" places, posting their "normal" opinions online without getting caught by a foreign forces' censorship, followed by beat-up squad kicking down your door.
Load More Replies...I'm not sure what the point of this is? How are they supporting Lithuanians? This just seems like a dig - you cried in response to conscription but we love voluntary military service so we're better people. I don't see how serving in the territorials/reserves can be compared with conscription.
Estonias have conscription, just like most of the eastern Europe does. Those who finish the military service BECOME the reserves. And yeah, the "point" of this campaign was to pretty much slap Lith's face, not be their friends
Load More Replies...I have written a small analysis of both series: http://karelkravik.com/blog/2015/6/24/commentary-to-tearsno-tears
You did a good job (except a few mistakes in typing, maybe, or grammar, but really not many, almost pwrfect here), but see, I'm a bit sceptical towards the Defense League, because the English one proved to be fascist.
Load More Replies...So the volunteers are smiling, while the ones who have been conscripted are weeping. Duh!
I went as a volunteer to the Estonian defense force. I didn't like it as thought i would. But i would choose the same each and every time i could. It's not about my needs, it's about a nation. No one else is going to defend us, but we. Vabade meeste ja vaba mandri hinnaks on isiklik kaotus! The price of free men and free land is a personal sacrifice! I saw all of us, volunteers and those who didn't have a choice, in the end we were all happy to be there and what needed to be done.
Load More Replies...If you want to have real talk about your future - be a part of your present reality.
Oh my, oh my ... Some of you think Europe (or adjacent places) is some Eden Garden and all the fighting and violent deaths in the World are due to unreasonable people (victims and executioners alike). NO. It is very hard to uphold democracy or even basic freedoms when you are faced with constant dangers or fears. You have from one side the Russian empire and from the other side a potentially Islamic Europe. In time, the dangers to your democracy will creep up, slowly enough for the fouls not to see it coming. If your big neighbors see you are a quick snack - they'll eat you! You should study the structure of Israeli society, especially connected to the army. Democracy has a price tag. Those who are not willing to pay some of their time and commitment for it, either lose it or hang on someone's back.
You know, military service is compulsory in Estonia as well, has been so for a long time...
Load More Replies...There is fine difference between conscription and volunteering. If freedom of choice has to be taken away from normal citizens, to grant freedom for same normal citizens, people definitely gonna ask - is this kind of "freedom" worth fighting for?
The point here is that the Lithuanian's did not have a choice. If we are fighting for FREEDOM, then part of being FREE is being FREE to make your own choices...
This people obviously chose their profession! To compare yourself to people who were forced to separate from their normal life (and loved ones), to be disciplined, controlled and be forced to do things they do not want to do... all that without warning!!! this mandatory military service came out of the blue for them! That is in my honest opinion, simply disgusting. I'm happy that you seem to enjoy your job, but not everyone is like you. God knows I couldn't do military. And not because I'm not fit physically. I'd cry if I was drafted.
"We are both small, freedom-loving nations living in a dangerous neighborhood." Lemme see.... Finland, Russia, Estonia, Latvia, Belarus, Poland... Mmmh.... Yeah, very very dangerous.... u_u
The point here is that the Lithuanian's were not given a choice, loving FREEDOM and fighting for it, is about being able to BE FREE. Being MADE to do anything means that you are not FREE to make the choice. It still blows my mind that anyone, anywhere is at war. The main thing throughout the time that humans have existed on this earth that never goes away is violence. Why is it taking everyone so long to stop the violence, stop the fighting, stop the loss of so much life, the ruin of beautiful places!?
"Why is it taking everyone so long to stop the violence, stop the fighting, stop the loss of so much life, the ruin of beautiful places!?" Response: It is in the nature of people to love and hate. Some of us have more stable feelings than others (of love, hate or both). AND GREED ! We'll always be at the same evolutionary stage: somewhere between animals and GOD.
Load More Replies...Watch this from the beginning till the end and do the photo-shoot again: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=79f_1410873035
Having Marko serving is a great way to show the leadership credentials he has. Being willing to fight in the wars that his government sends troops to. Of course that is the kind of Representative that every government needs.
Really the most powerful image is the member of parliament being ready to serve alongside his countrymen. That is what a leader is gents.
Live free or die. There are worse evils than death. Conscription is not one of them in Estonia. They do live in a rough neighborhood mainly because of Russia. I'm sure they put up with conscription much the same as they put up with austerity measures because they realize it's far better than being under the USSR. they truly understand what freedom is because they have lived without it and I'm sure the memories of the old Soviet Union are still fresh. More weak minded Americans with no concept of history and no understanding of the real value of peace, freedom, and civic virtue.
Easy to say "You just have to love freedom!" when you're not serving under a country infamous for fighting for-profit wars on behalf of multinational conglomerates - Wars based on lies and used your children like cannon fodder so some c**t at Halliburton can be even more obscenely rich through military contracts.
Go ahead and read about the sanctions in Iraq from 1990 to 2003. Would like to know how you would have done better
Load More Replies...They're just trying to prove something. They are trying to make lithuanians look stupid and scared. In my oppinion, this is some internet b******t. One does not smile or laugh, or feel good, knowing that he will see the most horrible things, blood, wounds, tears and death.
Talk to yourself, Antonia. I went through my mil-service already years ago, and would gladly go back now, with smile. The job of the DEFENSE Forces is to keep that blood, wounds, tears and death away from your country, and allow your kind of delusional "normal people" to keep living their "normal" lives, going to their "normal" places, posting their "normal" opinions online without getting caught by a foreign forces' censorship, followed by beat-up squad kicking down your door.
Load More Replies...I'm not sure what the point of this is? How are they supporting Lithuanians? This just seems like a dig - you cried in response to conscription but we love voluntary military service so we're better people. I don't see how serving in the territorials/reserves can be compared with conscription.
Estonias have conscription, just like most of the eastern Europe does. Those who finish the military service BECOME the reserves. And yeah, the "point" of this campaign was to pretty much slap Lith's face, not be their friends
Load More Replies...I have written a small analysis of both series: http://karelkravik.com/blog/2015/6/24/commentary-to-tearsno-tears
You did a good job (except a few mistakes in typing, maybe, or grammar, but really not many, almost pwrfect here), but see, I'm a bit sceptical towards the Defense League, because the English one proved to be fascist.
Load More Replies...So the volunteers are smiling, while the ones who have been conscripted are weeping. Duh!
I went as a volunteer to the Estonian defense force. I didn't like it as thought i would. But i would choose the same each and every time i could. It's not about my needs, it's about a nation. No one else is going to defend us, but we. Vabade meeste ja vaba mandri hinnaks on isiklik kaotus! The price of free men and free land is a personal sacrifice! I saw all of us, volunteers and those who didn't have a choice, in the end we were all happy to be there and what needed to be done.
Load More Replies...If you want to have real talk about your future - be a part of your present reality.
Oh my, oh my ... Some of you think Europe (or adjacent places) is some Eden Garden and all the fighting and violent deaths in the World are due to unreasonable people (victims and executioners alike). NO. It is very hard to uphold democracy or even basic freedoms when you are faced with constant dangers or fears. You have from one side the Russian empire and from the other side a potentially Islamic Europe. In time, the dangers to your democracy will creep up, slowly enough for the fouls not to see it coming. If your big neighbors see you are a quick snack - they'll eat you! You should study the structure of Israeli society, especially connected to the army. Democracy has a price tag. Those who are not willing to pay some of their time and commitment for it, either lose it or hang on someone's back.
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