“I Was Baffled”: Argument Ensues After Friends Said Man Can’t Take His 5-Year-Old Daughter On Their Annual Fishing Trip
As you probably know, real gentlemen always follow the rules. If the rules do not suit the gentlemen, change the rules. Especially if this is an unwritten rule made in friendly company, which was established many years ago, and which no one has yet violated.
On the other hand, if the rule looks a little obsolete, and it concerns your own children, then who will condemn a person for being formally ready to change this very rule? In fact, this is a common moral dilemma that often confronts many of us.
For example, a man who wrote this post on the AITA Reddit community a few days ago and has since collected almost 19.5K upvotes and over 1.6K different comments. However, this story is actually not as negative as some – and comes with an almost happy ending. Okay, let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
More info: Reddit
Image credits: F. Delventhal (not the actual photo)
The Original Poster and his four best friends used to have annual fishing trips
So, for nearly ten years, the Original Poster and his four best friends have taken an annual fishing trip. From the very beginning, they set an unwritten rule for themselves: “no wives, no girlfriends,” and no one has yet violated this rule.
Image credits: u/DaddynDaughterfish
One of the friends took his 5 Y.O. son with him and this was a really great experience
Two years ago, one of the friends, “Tim,” offered to take his five-year-old son on the fishing trip – so that the tradition would spread to a new generation. At that time, out of the entire group, only “Tim” and the OP had children, so the friends gladly accepted this idea. The boy really liked the trip, and the next year he also went with pleasure.
Image credits: u/DaddynDaughterfish
The OP was delighted that their friendly group had a beautiful new tradition
A few months ago, a son was born to another friend in the group, “Randy,” and “Tim” gave “Randy” a fishing pole for the newborn to be given for the boy’s fifth birthday. It turned out very symbolic, and the OP was very pleased with the emerging tradition.
Image credits: u/DaddynDaughterfish
This year, the OP told his friends that he wants his 5 Y.O. daughter to go with them
This time, when a new trip was approaching, the OP told his friends that his daughter, who is now five years old, really wants to go with them, and dad promised the girl to take her fishing. To the OP’s surprise, all his friends looked at him like he’d just said something weird, noting that this would also be a violation of their long-standing rule.
Image credits: u/DaddynDaughterfish
The OP’s friends told him that this was a violation of their unwritten rule
Now the OP was surprised. He objected that his daughter is not someone’s wife or girlfriend, and that the girl is now the same age that “Tim’s” son had been on his first trip. The OP himself, in his own words, does not see any difference. If they don’t take his daughter, the OP said, he would be against “Tim’s” son going. Here “Tim” was already indignant – and it ended up in a quarrel.
Image credits: Ryan (not the actual photo)
People in the comments told the OP that their rule seems to look a bit discriminatory
We must admit that the commenters reacted very sensibly to this story, standing up for the girl and her dad. In fact, as one of the people in the comments pointed out, this “no wives, no girlfriends” rule seems quite discriminatory – with this the OP agreed, acknowledging that he would definitely forward the entire comment to his friends.
By the way, this story had a really good ending. The OP later added that his friends considered all his arguments and admitted that they were wrong. They apologized to both the OP and his daughter in absentia, and said they would only be happy if she went with them. All in all, it must be great fishing!
We, for our part, encourage you to express your point of view on this story – to tell us what you think about it. All in all, it must be a great discussion!
One thing I noticed is that the “friends” were concerned that they would have to stay in a hotel instead of their no-air conditioning cabin. Like, do they think that we are less than boys and can’t survive without air conditioning?!
I'm glad that they decided to welcome the daughter. having said that, women do appreciate women-only get togethers and there's nothing necessarily wrong with an all guy weekend fishing trip.
Agreed, but please keep it to the adults and don't exclude a 5 year old girl based on the assumption she'll be lady-sensitive and needs more care than a boy of the same age.
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He says they're not sexist, but they just assumed the girl would have to stay in a hotel. How is that not sexist?
They are sexist, but at least they are willing to be educated.
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"A lot of people are assuming my friends are sexist, but they're not." Narrator: his friends are definitely sexist.
Exactly, and it worries me that he cannot see it (or chooses to overlook it).
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I love that it "had nothing to do with her being a girl" but then when they are called out yes, yes it totally has to do with her being a girl. Just because they accepted that they were being jerks and changed their minds it doesn't mean they weren't starting off by being sexist. But I really am glad they changed their minds. I was that little girl, but my male relatives didn't back down.
I like that dad, "My daughter ain't nobody's girlfriend or wife." Also, why would women require a hotel? Honestly, I go to festivals all the time and all the women there are sleeping in tents.
There are some homeless women (by choice) who sleep under overpasses where I live. I've stayed in a tent before, heck a few times I've slept on the floor at around her age.
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It's still sexist to think they would have to cater to the girl by staying in different lodging or by doing different activities. I know they didn't mean it in a bad way and they weren't trying to be sexist...but it still is. Glad the girl gets to go on the trip now!
They want to have a man's time out just like woman have girls night out, I don't see the women bringing their kids, women and need this time olne with their friends once in a while the other guy should have left the boy home to begin with and start a fishing trip just for the kids, this way they will get full attention. They are not sexist they just want to get away from the normal stuff, like, wifes, children and everyday home and work stuff, just like some women do when they have girls time.
Load More Replies... I was all set to say that your friends were the AHs, but after reading the updates, I think it was a learning opportunity for all. Not where I thought the story was going, but I'm glad for it. Have fun, and catch as many fish as you want. I hope your daughter catches the biggest one.
"I'm not sexist! I just believe that girls are incredibly fragile and cannot go camping." -_-
For any and all “concerned” about girls and their ability to be outdoors, take some time and YouTube Hanna Barron, Alex Zedra, Heather Lynn, Kelly Young, and many many more. My daughter is tougher than all my sons and can outfish as well as out cook them. Edit: to add names
I agree, but I was a little concerned that dad did not think it was a big deal if they had to whip it out and pee...and she seen. You have 2 young children who don't need to be confused about respecting privacy....I think that simple precautions will solve this. I wonder in 20 years if the tradition continues, how future wife's and husband's might react to their significant other going on this trip without them. Usually all guys trips or all girls trips don't make their partner feel threatened or excluded, a trip of both might be different. I also understand why friends like to have trips without spouses or boyfriend or girlfriends...decreases the risk of potential drama disrupting the trip.
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The entire group is a***holes for insisting that females can't go fishing. Your friends are sexist and so are you. You are just starting to see how unfair it is now that you have a daughter.
My 10 year-old niece has loved fishing since she was really small. She never complains about the elements, even while ice fishing, but the boys do.
I Can see where the men are coming from and I don't see a sexist thing here really. Yes he can take his daughter on a daddy daughter fishing thing and/or with his buds on this fishing thing and his little 5 year old should be okay. As a ten year old, 13 year old, dynamic WILL change, girls need different. Men can't just urinate off the boat they have to watch their conversations etc etc. It sucks the fun out of the traditional trips. This tradition was started as a guys only thing. Not sexist. The way women would start an annual mani pedi and shopping thing with their 4 best friends. One day decide to bring their little girls along to "pass on" the tradition. Then bringing a son with them one day at age 5 then age 10. It's no longer a girl's trip as it was initially designed. None of this I see as sexist. I understand their concern.
I would explain to you how you're wrong, but i think just googling a shewee would do that for me
Load More Replies... Your friends are sexist. Little girls are just as tough as little boys. Anyone who doesn’t know that is ignorant and naive.
It's nothing about sexist the friends just wanted it to be all males get together, which nothing is wrong with that...it's suppose to be a all males thing ..no females
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Not the AH, but I dont see how a adults only fishing trips as appropriate to children - boy or girls.
If one can say that a fishing trip with no kid (boys or girls) have the same dynamic of a adult only trip, then one can say that the friends are the AH.
Load More Replies... I dunno, I think I'm in the minority...I don't think the friends are wrong, per say. The "no wives" rule was meant to indicate it's a men's day. I think very few people would have a problem with women getting together and having a "no husbands" trip. There are very few "men only" activities anymore. It's not sexism, but bringing the girl changes it from a male day to a family day. They could set up a separate family fishing trip and include women. I get that the little girl isn't much of a woman, but she will be one day... What then? Will she be excluded later or will the activity no longer be a time for men to bond?
Exactly..sometimes we need our alone times with our own gender...that fishing trip will stop happening because it was only for males.
Load More Replies... As usual, there are a ton of trash opinions about BuT wE aLl Do ThIs ThInG. No. Stop being a lemming. Let children be children, and at the age of these kids when they start the trip, they just want to be doing what their parent/caregiver is doing and spending time with them. Let the kids decide on their own later if they want to keep going. Interests change, but those early memories are super important. The first time my uncle let me help tie in the boat was one of the most meaningful times in my life. I didn't go as much later on, but I have kept those memories forever. He passed almost 3 years ago and they haven't faded a bit.
Anyone else think of The Little Rascals "He-Man Woman Haters Club" when reading this? Or Tim McGraw's song, "Don't Take The Girl"?
oh, hell no! i started fishing when i was young and i am not an old fart. in fact, i have a son and two grandsons and they are not the avid fishermen that i thought they would me. i would take them with me but they can take it or leave it. i consider fishing whether in a boat or off the bank like my personal valium where i regenerate. i wait for every thaw to go. this year sucks because i had a surgery in may and am recovering only to have a second in august. i miss it. i always go alone until recently when my son told me that because of my disability i needed to get one of the grandpeople. he's afraid i will fall in and become a floater and he wants a bobber. i so need to find a fishing buddy for next year.
No bobbers or bait here! All artificial and awesome at hunting lunkers! I'm a chick but I'll slay the bank or on a boat. I'll go with ya any damn day!
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Once that little girl is a teen she won't want to hang out with dad and his friends anyway so enjoy it while you can, OP
She's 5 for God's sake! She wants to hangout with her dad & go fishing. Being the only daughter in my family I did what my brothers did. Sometimes even better. My youngest brother passed away at 41 doing what he loved fishing, he had went alone that night & was found face down in his boat with the motor still running. We had many good times fishing together & I have great memories. His son was only 10 at the time & I have done my best to keep those memories alive for his son, who is now a great young man. I am glad you all agreed she could & should go with you! These are things you all will remember some day .. There will be memories in the making for sure!
Girls love dad's to teach their daughters to be passionate about something. I'm an angler and very good at it. Girls and women are people too! Not all of us like to do real stuff but some do! Encourage it, foster a change in humanity and see your daughter excel. We are more than baby makers you know? I'm about to become a Civil Engineer after being told as a woman by many I couldn't all my life. I'm 37, when will you men see were just as capable and stop treating us as wombs? My dad always told me the biblical line of sorts. He would say, "Lauren, I can give you a fish and you will eat for a day. Or, I can teach you to fish and you will eat your whole life".
You're friends realizing they were wrong, apologizing and accepting your daughter coming along is BEST possible outcome. These are friends you have had for many years. Yes, maybe they were being sexist and discriminatory. The ONLY way to get ppl to STOP their hurtful ways, is to get them to see the error and CHANGE. That is rare, but you did it. Good for you and your daughter..and other women that could be effected, hurt.
Let me tell you from my experience as a "daddy's girl". That's all well and fly on the sly, but when that daughter gets to be 18, you best keep up that tradition. I love my dad but he jumped ship after I turned into an adult and he got a girlfriend. Take me fishing anymore? Twice in the last 10 years. Invites me to come over? You best believe we're not left alone for very long. Do something with my dad? Only when my second step mother and his brother are available. To be fair I think he does think I take after my mom and he thought my mom was crazy. he even told me one time he thought I was like her or was talking like her. Words from experience, it's all well and good to pretend your daughter matters when she's little. She's cute and your dad. But don't you ever forget she's still your daughter when she's an adult You think it's just the kids that forget that? No, parents forget that too. They forget that they're adult children. Anything short of needing him I'm on my own
What if one of the friends came out as gay, would he be allowed to bring his boyfriend/husband? Or would they just change it to no spouse or S/O?
Lol I love how everyone is so offended and calling this sexist. Guess what the other "Dad's" are not fathers to daughters. So to them its swimming in new waters. They probably assumed a 5 year old girl is going to be caddy the whole time, which btw some can be. I was a tom boy, I always hung with the boys; but please stop turning this into sexist bs because in reality it was just guys not knowing what 5 year old girls are like. Oh and guess what just like most men they got hot headed and ten minutes later shook hands and made up. Stop making it into something it's not in the end it all worked out. Miscommunication and misunderstanding.... We are all human.
...do you know what sexism actually is? Or do you think it's a big bad monster that only describes those who actively dislike/mistreat/discriminate against women?
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As far as the whole women need a hotel B******t, I have a brother who cannot change a tire. When I was out with him and he had a flat tire, I had to change it because he did not know how. And he is my older brother. So so, your friends are sexist no matter how much you want to say they are not.
Hi, well I know that "no wives no girlfriends" is like "girls night" to women. So they meant "no females". I appreciate a good girls night. But its nice you like to encourage her in sports. The only problem I can imagine would be if one of them is a problem drinker or something. Ive seen little girls touched in private places by drunken adults. But you know your friends. And thats probably not an issue. 👍
I started fishing with my dad and his buddies every year when I was around 8. It was so important to me that I could do something like that with him and I have very fond memories. I loved fishing, and especially catching the biggest fish in front of his friends! I never felt like a third wheel. Looking back (about 30 years ago), I am very grateful for my progressive thinking dad for including me. I would have been hurt if I knew boys could go, but I couldn't because I'm a girl . The only tricky thing being a girl on a fishing trip is the bathroom situation. But it's not impossible to figure it out.
UUUUUUUUGH!!!!! I'm female but you know what? If I'm allowed "girls night out", they sure af are allowed a "Bachelor weekend"! Good god - bin it with the toxic woke culture!
Woke culture is when a father wants to take his daughter fishing
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That dude needs new, non-sexist friends who aren't misogynistic douche-wads
let me invite all my dude-bros to your female-only gym. If you don't want to be around men then you are alao sexist
Load More Replies... Ooof I felt this... I was the first born in my family of hunter, fishermen, outdoors men grandfather and Uncles...I loved all of it! I was transfixed by my grandfather doing taxidermy and was beyond delighted to go fishing with him at 2am!! I loved all things outside! Then when I was about 8, my uncle had a little boy. I was completely forgotten about. It killed me. I have always been outdoorsy, I was even a wildland firefighter for a season. I'd go camping whenever I could and almost always had my gear in my car/ truck. I just love being outside! That they dumped me like that really affected me for a long time. My grandfather probably would have kept doing stuff with me, but he and my grandmother divorced. My uncles are a bit chauvinist and it took them a long time to realize I was a crack shot and a hell of a survivalist.
A long time ago, Robert Benchley said, "There are two levels of travel - first class and with children." I suggest they move to a two fishing trip schedule. One is with children, when the child is ready. (Parent decides that.) The other trip is adults-only, but including wives, girl friends, mistresses, FWPs, dominatrices, etc. Advantages - fairness, peace, harmony, and twice as much fishing!
When do the men get time to get away from women and relax?
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The person comparing the situation to an all male country club is so far out of line it isn't funny. When you think women went to court to invade men only spaces...only to turn around and create women only spaces....LMAO
And you can be offended that I used 'invaded' all you want. That's what happened.
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He isn't wrong for wanting to bring his daughter with; and his friends aren't wrong for not wanting her there....
It sounds like the friends may be a wee bit sexist. To be fair to them though, they probably fon't realize they have some sexist beliefs about women as they have never been challenged on this belief that "women can't go on our fishing trip" before... and judging by the edit they are starting to realize that their belief structure was wrong. So kudos to them for actually taking the time to analyze their beliefs and admit they were wrong. Hopefully they continue that trend in other areas of their life as well. Combating our own prejudices is hard and it's something you are never really finished doing.
Finally!!! I don't think they're assholes as many of the comments here suggest. And I don't think they had bad intentions. However their beliefs weren't right and they admitted it after being challenged and probably some days of thoughtful analyses
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What part of an all male fishing trip tradition do people not understand? Why can't guys just hang out and do that male bonding thing without bringing a female into the mix? The friends were not being sexist. They were trying to keep their male only fishing trip tradition male only... Just saying 🤷♀️
It was male only until they decided that it was a good idea to pass the tradition down to their kids
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It's a guys fishing trip. Of course your 5 year old daughter is not welcome. Snap out of this woke, both sexes are exactly the same, imaginary land mindset, and apologize to your friends. Males and females are not equal. They're different. Not lesser or greater, just different. And those differences should be celebrated! Having trips with all guys where everyone can unwind and not have to worry so much about how they behave being offensive or inappropriate is not sexist. And it doesn't imply that females are lesser than males.
It's male bonding nothing wrong with that. I have specifically did get togethers with just the women that excluded men and children. Gives women a break and they love it. There are many times where you will be by yourself with family with strangers etc etc. There is a time for everything.
A dude's trip can't be handed down to a daughter. I understand their reservations.
You see that’s toxic masculinity. “A dude’s trip can’t be handed down to a daughter”. Yeah it can, and they did it beautifully. They are being mature, admitting they were wrong and rectifying the situation. It was no big deal. Now you’ll have young boys who don’t think twice about a girl fishing and camping with them. And a girl who’s liberated from being pigeon holed as just a girl who can’t possibly enjoy, or do, what boys do. Plus some fathers who found a new way to look at things. In the long run this is what everyone is going to have to get used to. Women aren’t going back. If you have daughters, sisters, any female you care about, you should want this change for all of us. There will always be militant dumb asses in any group who are extremists, but todays feminism is for anyone affected by women being discriminated against. Think of the things that could have been accomplished in every walk of life if half the population hadn’t been held back for thousands of years….
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I think that there’s a time for everything. Even though they use the term girlfriend and wife, it’s a male bonding factor which the little girl should not be involved in. What I would do if I was the dad I would let my little daughter know that we can do a special daughter and dad fishing day. I make a tradition out of it she will love it and it’ll make her feel special. We shouldn’t stomp our feet when something doesn’t go our way. And it’ll be a great teaching experience for her.
I don't know what's more unsettling - the fact that they thought a 5 year old girl can NOT do what a 5 year old boy can, or the fact that they didn't even ask about it or even say 'we'll be camping outside, is that OK?' they just presumed the worst without even trying to involve the little girl... Its just so sad and I really hope that their minds have been blown wide open
My father took all of us (6 kids, 4 of us daughters) separately on fishing trips. *the BEST DAYS EVER* was to be with my dad, just the 2 of us spending a day on the lake, with sandwiches, up at dawn, having caught bait (worms) the night before. Dad taught me how to fish, but also the pleasure of just being while waiting. Some 40 years later, I still appreciate fishing, and "being while waiting".
NTA but that's what you get for upholding misogyny until it affects you lol
I once went to an all women’s college for a couple of classes. It was awesome and liberating. No smelly men leering at the women, trying to get “lucky”, just relaxed learning and good grades. Unfortunately, the teacher was a man. He was the dumbest person there. Sad but true.
They see everyday that women are stronger, smarter, braver, more competent and can do so much more than males. Even when they see it they refuse to accept it. They are so emotional and they cannot manage their feelings. Them saying women are weak and can't handle things is absolute b******t and they know it deep down. That's why they're so angry. That's why they're condescending and lie so much.
Eh, I can see her going maybe a year or two, and then the other dads quietly forming their own, second, male-only trip and not inviting him unless he agrees this new trip is guys-only. Because it's fine and simple when she's 5, but it won't be so uncomplicated when she's older.
The only problem I have with that is guy should be able to have their time with each other without necessarily having the presence of woman. When women decide to have their own time nobody says nothing which is fine women also need there time together without the presence of men. I completely understand wanting to create some kind of brotherhood/tradition in this context. They should create a daughter Father fishing version. The Father also could've have decide to bring her daughter on his own time. When the other friends have girls Juste create a Girl version. He could even ask her daughter if she has a girl friend and ask the Dad if we want to create something. I'm pretty sure all Men understand why they wanted something just for the boys. As much as we guys love our women. Today alot of guys suffering in silence if they say one thing negative about women they loose everything dude or just scared to be around women. Guys need these times just to keep some sort of balance.
As a Dude that went hunting and fishing with the Men of the family and would never consider taking a female with me with me on a guy only trip. Took the wife once on a weekend hunt just me and her. Plopped her down on a hot seat in a snow bank/blind in Northern Michigan in the closing days of deer season. We had fun but she only went the one time and never asked again to go. And yes we did see deer and she got to see the reason for the excitement to be out there. Still after 34 years of marriage she likes to stay home and warm. But bring home some game or fish she is elbow deep in cleaning and dressing out the meal. No daughters, One son all grown and now 3 Grandsons to pass on the skills to. Living the Dream. GW
Nothing wrong with a guys only weekend.Doesnt mean you hate women but a little male bonding isn't a bad thing.Women do stuff like that all the time.Why is everyone so oversensitive these days?
Women have women's only clubs and nights out..why is it only bad if men do it?There is nothing wrong with male bonding.Doesn't make you a woman hater to want a weekend with the guys.We live in a f****d up world these days
That ought to be a nice trip...taking a little girl on a fishing trip is rough... you can't tell her to stand up and whizz overboard. Men do a lot of things that little girls shouldn't be around. I took my daughter and my buddy took his daughter on a hunting trip together. We did knowing there would have to be special considerations for it. It changed the trip alot but it was a good trip. We couldn't sleep in a tent, couldn't just pull over to urinate and had to watch what we said the entire time. At the end of it, my daughter, his daughter both lost things on the trip, complained alot and refused to eat 2 meals Because of what we were eating and how fast we had to go. It was 50x rougher, 10x less fun but my daughter still had fun. Unfortunately it was the last trip I had with my buddy, he died from VA overdosing him in a surgery 6 months later. I know we both enjoyed it for a different reason, we both became primarily Dad's from that point on. He and I deployed together.
Everyone is so co dependent on each other. Take the daughter on your own outing. Why is this so difficult? This will be your time to bond alone. Why do they have to apologize? They were being honest. They apologized because they were guilt into it. This is all so ridiculous to me. Would it be the end of the world NOT to join these people and do your separate activities? Everyone needs to be babied. Am I alone in this?
What is wrong with having a all males trip ..we women do it all the time...how the hell sexist comes into play...boys wants boys time and so does females..there is nothing wrong with that...u ppl are silly..not everything needs to include the opposite gender sometimes we all need some alone time with our males friends only and females only...and there is nth wrong with that...u ppl are just foolish
I don't think it's sexist at all! There's nothing wrong with having some guy time. What about girls night out? Or no kids weekend? It's about getting a break! When did people get so sensitive? And good on him for staying by his daughters side! As long as they don't treat her differently its all good!
It's ok they just wanted males only trip. They may wanted to do male bonding. Little girls are suppose to be lady like and prissy and boys are suppose to be rough and tough. I don't think the men meant no harm. On the other hand, good they were good sports about the little girl attending.
Why can't guys just be allowed to have a guys weekend?? The women/girls in the group can come up with something else to do that weekend.
As someone who grew up in the country with 4 older brothers and LOTS of older guy cousins who hunted, fished and did "guy" stuff. My sister and I were NEVER left out. I started fishing at age 2 and started hunting at age 7, I remember when I was about 15, one of my close in age male cousins making a comment along the lines of "Why is she coming with us, only men hunt." And my uncle (who started all of us out hunting) snapped at him with, "SHE is a better shot then you, SHE actually knows how to be quiet when we're in the field, SHE can and does carry her own, AND you're not a man, because MEN don't say stupid s**t like that." Fast forward to the end of the day, not only did I tag my buck, he help me field dress and carry it out, I just thought he was trying to make up for the rude comment he made that morning. But come to find out a few years later, my uncle made him my b***h for that day. The dad did the right thing standing his ground to include his daughter.
It could have been viewed as discriminatory, but I also understand that with the " no wives no girlfriends" rule the guys just wanted to be around other guys and take a break from the feminine energy, they have in their everyday lives. I know some of my girlfriends just want to get together with other ladies, and get away form masculine energy for a while. As well as kids. I need a break from my kids some times. I don't think it was such a big deal.
Ok maybe it's a all dudes thing....they could've just said that. But listen worst case scenario Tim's boy ur daughter close 9/10 years later they are dating....I think I should keep it a all boys thing probably what they meant when they say no wives or gfs. Just don't overthink it. Y'all kids gonna ruin the tradition one day..lol
Y'all ppl too sensitive these days. So what if they don't want any females on their trip. It's ok to have guys only or girls only activities. I'm a boy Mom and I wouldn't want my son participating in all girl activities while we sit around talking about female stuff. If I had a daughter I most definitely wouldn't want her as the only female in a male setting.
I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days. If I was a mom, I would NOT let my daughter go, no way in hell. Especially a 5 year old who can't defend herself against an adult male. And as someone who knows an adult male who was wrongly accused of touching a young teen (who later admitting she lied because she had been grounded for being on web-sites that my brother had banned in the house), I wouldn't want a young child on a trip like this - male or female. Plus, my great uncle touched me on a fishing trip, so maybe I'm biased? Still can't stand to look at an earthworm to this day - makes me gag/throw-up.
Boys trips are important and that first guy bringing the son is the one who really changed it. Having kids brings a lot with it. Sounds like these guys navigated it well and are probably better friends for it. But I understand their concern though l. Having women along inevitably changes things. Why not do a trip with and without? Or if they don't care, do just what they did ☺️
Humans are creatures that are obsessed by their rules, to the point that they are bias to them until they find a need to bend them and form a loophole or make an exception. I think they honestly just really wanted to stick to that rule, however they could have easily made an exception, and I think they was just being fixated on traditions and not realizing that compromise is possible, all us humans low-key suffer from that
I am SO happy to see all of the people saying that men wanting a men only trip are misogynists. I will be even happier when I see those same people call out women-only gyms, spas, etc for being misandrist.
You're really d*ckriding that hard, huh? Women-only gyms are meant to be a safe place because women are constantly harrassed at the gym by men, some are even stalked, raped, or killed. And a majority of spas are not women only, going to a spa just isn't something that many men want to do, but most of them offer a couple session anyway. As soon as that one friend extended the trip to his son because he wanted to pass on the tradition, and gave the other kid a fishing pole, it was no longer adults only.
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What's the difference between an all guys weekend and a "girls night out"? If one of the kids happens to be a girl, so be it. They are going fishing! There is no need to be offended unless one chooses to be offended.
It is very clear from the beginning that the members wanted the group to be only boys or males. Unless you don't see that side of the agreement.
As a woman, I don't think there's anything wrong with them wanting a guys trip. Men and women are different, there's nothing wrong with guys occasionally hanging out with just guys or girls occasionally hanging out with just girls. If it was the other way around and me and my girl friends were having a spa day, I would have nothing wrong with them bringing their daughters but I don't think I'd want their sons to come because it's a girls trip
I can see this both ways. It is the beginning of the downfall to having a male weekend by having females going on a traditional males camping trip. The way our family has gotten around this, because we do like our men's weekends, and my wife and the rest of the ladies have their girls weekends, is we have family weekends. So basically we make sure we are getting together 3 times a year boys weekend, girls weekend and family weekend.
I don't see anything wrong with the all men's fishing trip,they should have just kept the same group and not added any kids.doing so they need to include all kids.girls go on girl trips.im 70 but not stuck on the feminine thing . I just think it would be more relaxing with their core group.now the whole dynamic is changed,not anything like original, that was part [f the fun. Is our world so messed up we can't have these traditional trips..that's silly.
I think dad should have a dad and daughter trip enjoying two trips a year. One with the guys and one with baby girl. 5 year old girls are too impressionable to weekend with all boys. With two trips you are getting the better of the deal 🙂
I didn't see mention of this in the story or comments; I'm assuming the "no wives/girlfriends rule is so they can actually catch up. Significant others usually focus on each other and that can lead to the friends not spending time together as intended (it becomes a "romantic getaway" for the couple). In that case it makes sense. However, kids aren't as bad in this sense, especially if there is more than one. They will play with each other so that the friends can have time to catch up.
Pretty sure if you want to have an all boys traditional fishing trip that's fine. Not sure why women have to make it ridiculous. Have a girls fishing trip and let the boys have their fun. So dumb
Am I the only one that doesn't understand how the race comment was applicable?
Lmao. 100% nta. My daughter is more likely to camp and fish than my son! Friends need a reality check. But glad you've all smoothed it over.
If his friends hadn't realized their stupidity my advice would be to get new friends. Your daughter doesn't deserve to be limited by outdated ideas.
The only thing I will say in Tim's defense is he cleared it with his friends first before bringing his son Opie just said his daughter is going. An analogy would be if my sister Emily wanted me to come over one night and we were going to hang out for a few days at her house what have you she'll take me out to local restaurants but my friend Sarah is in town and I bring Sarah to Emily's house without clearing it with Emily but in the past if I've invited my sister over she asks it it's okay to bring her kid it's the same thing granted this is outside in the woods and your fishing but it's the same general principle Opie messed up by not clearing it but yes it's a worse thing that his friends did by immediately thinking it wasn't okay
Glad the friends turned around and apologized but still that is sexism
His friends apologized and admitted they were wrong. Fair enough. They were taken by surprise obviously, thought about it and realized their error. THEY APOLOGIZED. Some are saying what horrible human being they were. The OP has known them for a long time, he’s probably a better judge than others.
Please don’t assume that men think girls are “less than.” Some guys are just scared of us. We’re smarter and live longer, we have more efficient brains (yes, it’s a proven fact) and our immune systems are stronger. Men are scared of us. Just saying……….
My dad used to take me elk hunting as soon as I was old enough, I'm female. We are talking freeze your backside off single digit cold, sleep in an non insulated camper shell, use an outhouse and cook over a campfire camping. I loved it!
WOW, I am now 51, my dad taught me to fish and get bait. It was my thing with dad, he's gone now and I miss him very much but when I fish and meet people in my town, I am and will be always the little girl that was fishing with Bill. I treasure that, I'm sure your daughter will too. Ps. When I fish on day boats now the skipper assumes I am the one needing help, but no it's the 65+ males that do !!!
When I was small money was tight so fishing was a way of eating when there was nothing else.. this carried on with me and my children. I am so very thankful that my dad had taught me for my children's sake x
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The no woman rule is simple, it's the same reason girls have. A "girls night out" without the boys, it's more relaxing to not have to deal with relationship issue while having fun, not to mention fishing trips aren't cheap so having to take your focus off the fishing to help your woman or do something with her/for her is a waste of fishing time having to deal with some drama, it's not a shot at woman to say they are naturally prone to causing issues 🤣 but it's the truth. We would love for them to be there with us but girls don't usually understand the point of it and might even complain, it's just not a girl thing in the first place, you'd have to raise the girl around it so she learns to enjoy and understand it. Our fishing group had wives/girlfriends come along before and they never come again on the more serious longer trips for good reason. The shorter FUN trips sure everyone can come to have a good time button the days you gotta focus on fishing it's all about business.
My Dad was a farm kid, and Mom was raised to fish, hunt, change a tire, etc. No delicate flowers there! It is so crazy to me that in the 21st century there are still men who think like Victorians.
Fwiw, I completely get the "no wives/no girlfriends" rule. Significant others are a detraction from the bonding experience. That said, the bonding has increased to not just friends and brothers, but now to father's. Accordingly, the tradition of adding five year olds is a beautiful addition to their bonding experience.
I could see the friends point they wanted it to be guys only fishing trip and bring their sons as they got old enough to keep a tradition going. Now I could see making an exception if the guy only has daughters and one wants to go but the friends should be allowed to say no...it's OK for rules stay. Because they said yes doesn't mean wives and girlfriends can go but daughters could shows they understood his position and were willing to have her along. Some girls are tougher than grown men.
I showed this post to my friends and they all changed their minds. Bunch of women anyway.
If you (OP) leave your daughter out of the fishing trip, she will forever hate you for it. No matter the gender, a child is and will be a child, forever joyful, curious, etc... F**k your rules, take all your kids along. It can still be a boys club, minor exception for the kids. It's not sexist and/or discriminatory, it's only a child.
Uhhh.. bro? If your friends think that with a daughter tagging along they would "have to stay in a hotel"...???? Yeh. They ARE sexist! And it's that type of mentality that is destroying the world. Maybe you should have told them that she would be wearing her burka, so everything would be good! So.. no. YOU'RE not the ashore but, you might want to consider the type of people you hang around with!
Wow! I slept in tents many times. A cabin would have been luxury, hell I once slept on an ant hill against a tree during Army training. They were asleep also no disturbance for either party. Yes, I am a female.
I was a tomboy growing up. My dad always took me with huntin and fishin. I never thought any different if boys were along or not. No one cared.
Males boning is kind of ruined when theres a female present. Ive been to bachelor parties with boys present. The male bonding was family friendly but it was still male bonding.
Ok so most the women commenters are pretty sexist themselves. I'm a woman and totally understood the friends concerns and understood the ops side as well. I'm very happy they all talked and realized they were being childish. I always went fishing with my step-dad (rip) and his friends. They didn't ever sensor themselves and I always had fun. They turned and I turned when urinating was needed. I will always cherish thoughs times. I miss my step-dad so much. I'm so happy you and your friends are carrying on the tradition. Just remember now the rules gotta change to no GFs/BFs or wives/husband's lol. Unless she marries one of your friends kids later in life. 😆 girls do like the outdoors as well so she is gonna have so much fun and be a huge daddies girl. That bond will be unbreakable.
I just don't understand why Men are so a**l about fishing. I am a 72yr old woman and love fishing and the (what once used to be) serenity it. Every time I'm at a lake I am harassed. Raped and robbed. Treated either as a poacher or a hooker. Duh! There is no clause on my fishing licence that says "men only" I grew up near a dammed River where my sisters + I enjoyed fishing as much as my brothers did. What's the big deal Canada? Isn't this "beautiful BC" for ALL to enjoy?.🤨😠😮.
You’ve ruined what was an awesome tradition by being a big baby. You should’ve just taken your daughter on her own little adventure. And honestly, by what I can tell about you, you are probably better suited for the female trip. Although your friends have apologized, only because they’re nice people and not because they feel like they were wrong, I guarantee they do not look at you the same and have plenty to say when you’re not around.
I am happy he stood up for his daughter!! And I am also happy the friends did the right thing!! (There is a BIG difference between "no wives, no girlfriends" and bringing the 5-year-olds!!!)
Men and women's bodies don't make people any more or less able to do thinks like go fishing or a spa day. Yeah you know men die if the enter a spa and women die if you hand them a fishing pole.
Personally if the kid wants to go a good father will take the child. Now that being said. I don't fish. I am allergic to all fresh water and salt water fish. I has some friends who would have taken my kids if they ever wanted to go or I would have arranged for them to fly to Colorado and do it with their Grandfather. The argument wouldn't have been so much why as to if you don't like it to bad. My kids come before friends. That's as simple as I gets.
And yes you are an A*S you f****d up a tradition and everyone that post or think otherwise is f****d up in the head Period
Again all white people problem's because with the "no wife no girlfriends" You gotta know it's code for no females d******d
A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO GANG UP ON A PERSON TO SEPERATE THEM FROM THIER FAMILY IS NOT FRIENDS. IN MY BIOLOGICAL DADS CASE HE HAD BEFRIENDED PREDATORY SURGONS WHO OFFERD THIER FRIENDS AS BABYSITTERS. IM CONCERD FOR MY BIOLOGICAL DAD BECAUSE HIS FRIENDS SEPERATED HIM FROM HIS FAMILY PERMNANTLY STOLE MY TUITION AND VEHICLES AND LIE AND SAY I GAVE IT ALL AWAY TO THEM. IN REALITY THEY HAD APPLIED FOR CUSTODY OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS AND MAKE HIM LIVE IN THE FISHING CAMP UNDER MEDICAL MUNCHAUSEN
I am a sixty two year old woman . I can put hunt, out fish and out shoot most people. Loved it growing up. Floating the river for the day fishing is a joy everyone needs to experience. Let bring everyone into the 21st century. Anyone can do anything. All it takes is a little effort.
MY FAMILY LIVES AT OUR JOB. SO I GET OVER IT BECAUSE I DONT LIKE MY BIOLOGICAL DADS FRIENDS ANYWAY. THE BABYSITTER IS WORSE THAN HIS FRIENDS THE BABYSITTER TURNED INTO A FOSTER FAMILY KIDNAPED ME 6000 MILES AWAY FROM HOME AND LIES AND SAYS THEY GAVE BIRTH TO ME THAT STEALS MY IDENTITY. IVE SPENT 40 YEARS CALLING THE POLICE ON THE BABYSITTER FOR MAKING A SECOND BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON ME. THE FISHING FRIENDS FAILED TO TOW THE LINE IN OUR PRISON WARDEN FAMILY
What happens when his daughter hits puberty? Or when she becomes a teenager? Does he really want to subject her to a group of men/friends and their ‘guy trip’ behavior? Should they have to curb their normal guy trip behavior because of their new member? Same can be said for the 7 year old son. I see it almost like a right of passage for the son, but he too, at that age could be exposed to too much adult guy trip behavior. If it were a girls trip, I wouldn’t want my 5 year old son or daughter along for the trip. I wouldn’t want my husband, brother, uncle, nephew…along for that trip either. Just the girls. No kids. No dudes. Wouldn’t have just been better if he took his 5 year old daughter and his friend take his 7 year old son on their own little separate daddy and child fishing trip? Start a new tradition , man! Let the group hold onto its original integrity.
It's funny that the OP claims that his friends aren't decider when that is EXACTLY what they are. He is NTA but he sure is guilty of associating with them and overlooking their sexist BS.
Wtf was that one idiot talking about, bringing race into the situation? It was an ignorant and baseless comparison. And just absolutely fn stupid. Also, there is plenty of "black only" or other race only bullsh*t which is a double standard. If it's racist from one side, it's racist from all sides. It's the fn action that's racist, and people need to wake tf up and realize that simple fact.
But girls nights aren't sexist? Where there is usually no husbands no boyfriends? It's only sexist because guys said no wives no girlfriends? ..glad he got to take his daughter...I don't see sexism at all...so maybe the girls can take the sons to their spa day or whatever. Bet not tho. Because that's different.
Women bring their boyfriends or husbands to girls night all the time. The sexism is them only not wanting her to go because they assumed that she would need to be pampered in a hotel
Load More Replies... Why are these stories so poorly written? The repetition is so BORING! This kind of format appears haphazard with cutting and pasting numerous times. Are the authors paid per word? The content is clouded because of it!
If this was a men's only type trip where they're making crude jokes or inappropriate behavior then I could see it may not be a good place to bring a 5 year old girl. Then again, the boy shouldn't be going then either. Doesn't sound like it was that kind of trip tho, just dudes hanging out and fishing (she will likely learn new swear words tho lol)
Kids are kids, between my brother and I (F) he was always the whiny one. I freaking hate this division of gender and interests or behavior. Hormones aren't even a factor until puberty so... One having a penis or not changes nothing about a child. How you and others treat them do. So go dad! Good job for sure.
Here is my two cents. My father was an avid fisherman. He lived for it and my 2 younger brothers participated as well. 9 times out of 10 there were no females. Not because they felt we were less than or any of the other ridiculous scenarios I have read but because most of the time we got bored pretty quickly. There where rules. Lol. Like no talking while fish were biting. Getting up at the butt crack of dawn or before. Peeing over the side of a boat and a myriad of other s**t we (mom, sister and i) found distasteful. Early on we realized that while they were doing their thing we had to whole house without testosterone hanging in the air.. Haha. And we could eat good stuff and watch the best Rom-Coms. All sleep in my Mom's bed. Swim, sunbathe, go garage sale shopping, run around without worrying about modesty or icky boy stuff. Not a slight against the menfolk but we celebrated our gender diversity. Females were proud to be as we are and Males were proud to be who they are. Good times
The thing with people who are sexist or racist or any other prejudice is the find ways to justify their beliefs. This group made assumptions based on their sexist belief. I hope they learn from this experience.
Wow, I think you should start camping and fishing with your daughter and family on your own......still go wit ya boys but if you take her, their going to act weird and rude if she even makes a sound....these sound like the type of guys you should be keeping her away from. If I was her mom I wouldn't let her go.
Kids should be able to spend time with there dads. But if it's only for adults and there is adult entertainment meant then kids shouldn't be there. Not sexist, men should want to do things with there kids and and friends it's there God giving right. If women want a wives want to bring there children's with them on there outings. Then fine its there provocative. Same for men. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you enjoy your trip. Hope it was blessed time. !!!!!!
i would dump that fishing trip and take my daughter on your own. just because she is female they see her a less than. is that what you want to expose her to? i think you two should start a yearly trip of your own. and forget them you two would probably have way more fun just the two of you. I'm sorry to say this but your friends are MCP's. do you want to expose her to those kind of men?
Daughter shouldn't go. It's a guy's only trip and will only get more complicated as she gets older. The redditor who compared it to race is a complete idiot. Biological sex is not the same as skin color.
The fishing trip was clearly meant to be males only. I think the OP was in the wrong. If the OP wanted to take his daughter fishing they could have e gone on their own. His daughter would have loved it none the less. It's not many things we as men do as a show of fellowship. This was their thing. The OPs friends aren't sexist, the OP should have read the room better. Ladies, everything we do, does not need to include you.
Literally compared no wives or gf...to whites only...literally this is whats wrong with the world...these are soooooo far from each other...and yes a 5yr old boy is dif then a 5yr old girl.....and the op acted even worse...my kid cant go so yours cant
They never mentioned color it's because one said passing the tradition instantly bringing kids into it
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There's litterally nothing wrong with this. Just as mothers have all women trips the boys are allowed to do the same. Yall just like to b***h and complain about everything lol
Never heard of all girl trips with daughters lol. Also, you're sexist, misogynistic and terrible at assumptions.
Load More Replies... You are NTA but I can understand where they are coming from its a little trip for the Bros. NTA you are just the first to break that norm and they over reacted. And to all the ladies in here it would be the same if one of yalls friends said they wanted to bring their son on yalls yearly spa vacation. Sometimes we just need a break.
Incorrect. Anyone can be brought on any trip if it's a kid-parent/caregiver scenario. Let kids be interested in things. Regardless of whatever gender label a kid has, all they want to do is spend time with the adults in their lives and do what they do at that age especially. If they want to stop going when they get older, let them have that choice. It's not hard. It's not complicated. Everyone just has a weird b*ner for gendered trips
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So, what happens, when his little girl isn't a little girl anymore ? She's going to need the hotel and clean bathrooms. Where do you draw the line between the sexes?
You do know that there are ways to be sanitary while outdoors, right? There are multiple women that hike across the country and are still sanitary.
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I have to say Don't take her.....as one of four girl with a brother thrown in between....love my siblings, but growing up his inclusion in some things changed the vibe/conversation....and he noticed girl code glances.....funny at times...but we would wait until we were alone to clarify....love goes without saying....but it does change somethings with mixed company.....that's life
Still makes them sexist / and super creepy. Who considers a 6 yo girl a wife or girlfriend??? Best thing to do is leave the trip a buddy trip. Do a father son thing trip separately and a father daughter trip separately.
Load More Replies... Still doesn't change the fact that they're sexist. I'd leave it as a buddy only trip. Why would you be ok saying things stroud a son that you wouldn't say around a daughter unless you're training you son to be sexist? Gross.
Load More Replies... No, it's not a guy trip. He clearly stated it's a buddy trip. That means no kids. Tim should have been told no. They San have a different trio that sons can ho on. Doesn't change the fact that they were blatantly sexist. The fact that you call OP an AH for standing against sexism makes YOU the AH.
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If that were true the wouldn't have brought up the ways they assumed the girl would ruin the trip like having to stay in a hotel. The ate sexist without question. You likely are too since you completely missed the very blatant sexism. You're the one who is confused
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Guys only, or girls only, is fine for adults. When you include young children, gender shouldn't matter for the child.
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One thing I noticed is that the “friends” were concerned that they would have to stay in a hotel instead of their no-air conditioning cabin. Like, do they think that we are less than boys and can’t survive without air conditioning?!
I'm glad that they decided to welcome the daughter. having said that, women do appreciate women-only get togethers and there's nothing necessarily wrong with an all guy weekend fishing trip.
Agreed, but please keep it to the adults and don't exclude a 5 year old girl based on the assumption she'll be lady-sensitive and needs more care than a boy of the same age.
Load More Replies... He says they're not sexist, but they just assumed the girl would have to stay in a hotel. How is that not sexist?
They are sexist, but at least they are willing to be educated.
Load More Replies... "A lot of people are assuming my friends are sexist, but they're not." Narrator: his friends are definitely sexist.
Exactly, and it worries me that he cannot see it (or chooses to overlook it).
Load More Replies... I love that it "had nothing to do with her being a girl" but then when they are called out yes, yes it totally has to do with her being a girl. Just because they accepted that they were being jerks and changed their minds it doesn't mean they weren't starting off by being sexist. But I really am glad they changed their minds. I was that little girl, but my male relatives didn't back down.
I like that dad, "My daughter ain't nobody's girlfriend or wife." Also, why would women require a hotel? Honestly, I go to festivals all the time and all the women there are sleeping in tents.
There are some homeless women (by choice) who sleep under overpasses where I live. I've stayed in a tent before, heck a few times I've slept on the floor at around her age.
Load More Replies... It's still sexist to think they would have to cater to the girl by staying in different lodging or by doing different activities. I know they didn't mean it in a bad way and they weren't trying to be sexist...but it still is. Glad the girl gets to go on the trip now!
They want to have a man's time out just like woman have girls night out, I don't see the women bringing their kids, women and need this time olne with their friends once in a while the other guy should have left the boy home to begin with and start a fishing trip just for the kids, this way they will get full attention. They are not sexist they just want to get away from the normal stuff, like, wifes, children and everyday home and work stuff, just like some women do when they have girls time.
Load More Replies... I was all set to say that your friends were the AHs, but after reading the updates, I think it was a learning opportunity for all. Not where I thought the story was going, but I'm glad for it. Have fun, and catch as many fish as you want. I hope your daughter catches the biggest one.
"I'm not sexist! I just believe that girls are incredibly fragile and cannot go camping." -_-
For any and all “concerned” about girls and their ability to be outdoors, take some time and YouTube Hanna Barron, Alex Zedra, Heather Lynn, Kelly Young, and many many more. My daughter is tougher than all my sons and can outfish as well as out cook them. Edit: to add names
I agree, but I was a little concerned that dad did not think it was a big deal if they had to whip it out and pee...and she seen. You have 2 young children who don't need to be confused about respecting privacy....I think that simple precautions will solve this. I wonder in 20 years if the tradition continues, how future wife's and husband's might react to their significant other going on this trip without them. Usually all guys trips or all girls trips don't make their partner feel threatened or excluded, a trip of both might be different. I also understand why friends like to have trips without spouses or boyfriend or girlfriends...decreases the risk of potential drama disrupting the trip.
Load More Replies... The entire group is a***holes for insisting that females can't go fishing. Your friends are sexist and so are you. You are just starting to see how unfair it is now that you have a daughter.
My 10 year-old niece has loved fishing since she was really small. She never complains about the elements, even while ice fishing, but the boys do.
I Can see where the men are coming from and I don't see a sexist thing here really. Yes he can take his daughter on a daddy daughter fishing thing and/or with his buds on this fishing thing and his little 5 year old should be okay. As a ten year old, 13 year old, dynamic WILL change, girls need different. Men can't just urinate off the boat they have to watch their conversations etc etc. It sucks the fun out of the traditional trips. This tradition was started as a guys only thing. Not sexist. The way women would start an annual mani pedi and shopping thing with their 4 best friends. One day decide to bring their little girls along to "pass on" the tradition. Then bringing a son with them one day at age 5 then age 10. It's no longer a girl's trip as it was initially designed. None of this I see as sexist. I understand their concern.
I would explain to you how you're wrong, but i think just googling a shewee would do that for me
Load More Replies... Your friends are sexist. Little girls are just as tough as little boys. Anyone who doesn’t know that is ignorant and naive.
It's nothing about sexist the friends just wanted it to be all males get together, which nothing is wrong with that...it's suppose to be a all males thing ..no females
Load More Replies... Not the AH, but I dont see how a adults only fishing trips as appropriate to children - boy or girls.
If one can say that a fishing trip with no kid (boys or girls) have the same dynamic of a adult only trip, then one can say that the friends are the AH.
Load More Replies... I dunno, I think I'm in the minority...I don't think the friends are wrong, per say. The "no wives" rule was meant to indicate it's a men's day. I think very few people would have a problem with women getting together and having a "no husbands" trip. There are very few "men only" activities anymore. It's not sexism, but bringing the girl changes it from a male day to a family day. They could set up a separate family fishing trip and include women. I get that the little girl isn't much of a woman, but she will be one day... What then? Will she be excluded later or will the activity no longer be a time for men to bond?
Exactly..sometimes we need our alone times with our own gender...that fishing trip will stop happening because it was only for males.
Load More Replies... As usual, there are a ton of trash opinions about BuT wE aLl Do ThIs ThInG. No. Stop being a lemming. Let children be children, and at the age of these kids when they start the trip, they just want to be doing what their parent/caregiver is doing and spending time with them. Let the kids decide on their own later if they want to keep going. Interests change, but those early memories are super important. The first time my uncle let me help tie in the boat was one of the most meaningful times in my life. I didn't go as much later on, but I have kept those memories forever. He passed almost 3 years ago and they haven't faded a bit.
Anyone else think of The Little Rascals "He-Man Woman Haters Club" when reading this? Or Tim McGraw's song, "Don't Take The Girl"?
oh, hell no! i started fishing when i was young and i am not an old fart. in fact, i have a son and two grandsons and they are not the avid fishermen that i thought they would me. i would take them with me but they can take it or leave it. i consider fishing whether in a boat or off the bank like my personal valium where i regenerate. i wait for every thaw to go. this year sucks because i had a surgery in may and am recovering only to have a second in august. i miss it. i always go alone until recently when my son told me that because of my disability i needed to get one of the grandpeople. he's afraid i will fall in and become a floater and he wants a bobber. i so need to find a fishing buddy for next year.
No bobbers or bait here! All artificial and awesome at hunting lunkers! I'm a chick but I'll slay the bank or on a boat. I'll go with ya any damn day!
Load More Replies... Once that little girl is a teen she won't want to hang out with dad and his friends anyway so enjoy it while you can, OP
She's 5 for God's sake! She wants to hangout with her dad & go fishing. Being the only daughter in my family I did what my brothers did. Sometimes even better. My youngest brother passed away at 41 doing what he loved fishing, he had went alone that night & was found face down in his boat with the motor still running. We had many good times fishing together & I have great memories. His son was only 10 at the time & I have done my best to keep those memories alive for his son, who is now a great young man. I am glad you all agreed she could & should go with you! These are things you all will remember some day .. There will be memories in the making for sure!
Girls love dad's to teach their daughters to be passionate about something. I'm an angler and very good at it. Girls and women are people too! Not all of us like to do real stuff but some do! Encourage it, foster a change in humanity and see your daughter excel. We are more than baby makers you know? I'm about to become a Civil Engineer after being told as a woman by many I couldn't all my life. I'm 37, when will you men see were just as capable and stop treating us as wombs? My dad always told me the biblical line of sorts. He would say, "Lauren, I can give you a fish and you will eat for a day. Or, I can teach you to fish and you will eat your whole life".
You're friends realizing they were wrong, apologizing and accepting your daughter coming along is BEST possible outcome. These are friends you have had for many years. Yes, maybe they were being sexist and discriminatory. The ONLY way to get ppl to STOP their hurtful ways, is to get them to see the error and CHANGE. That is rare, but you did it. Good for you and your daughter..and other women that could be effected, hurt.
Let me tell you from my experience as a "daddy's girl". That's all well and fly on the sly, but when that daughter gets to be 18, you best keep up that tradition. I love my dad but he jumped ship after I turned into an adult and he got a girlfriend. Take me fishing anymore? Twice in the last 10 years. Invites me to come over? You best believe we're not left alone for very long. Do something with my dad? Only when my second step mother and his brother are available. To be fair I think he does think I take after my mom and he thought my mom was crazy. he even told me one time he thought I was like her or was talking like her. Words from experience, it's all well and good to pretend your daughter matters when she's little. She's cute and your dad. But don't you ever forget she's still your daughter when she's an adult You think it's just the kids that forget that? No, parents forget that too. They forget that they're adult children. Anything short of needing him I'm on my own
What if one of the friends came out as gay, would he be allowed to bring his boyfriend/husband? Or would they just change it to no spouse or S/O?
Lol I love how everyone is so offended and calling this sexist. Guess what the other "Dad's" are not fathers to daughters. So to them its swimming in new waters. They probably assumed a 5 year old girl is going to be caddy the whole time, which btw some can be. I was a tom boy, I always hung with the boys; but please stop turning this into sexist bs because in reality it was just guys not knowing what 5 year old girls are like. Oh and guess what just like most men they got hot headed and ten minutes later shook hands and made up. Stop making it into something it's not in the end it all worked out. Miscommunication and misunderstanding.... We are all human.
...do you know what sexism actually is? Or do you think it's a big bad monster that only describes those who actively dislike/mistreat/discriminate against women?
Load More Replies... As far as the whole women need a hotel B******t, I have a brother who cannot change a tire. When I was out with him and he had a flat tire, I had to change it because he did not know how. And he is my older brother. So so, your friends are sexist no matter how much you want to say they are not.
Hi, well I know that "no wives no girlfriends" is like "girls night" to women. So they meant "no females". I appreciate a good girls night. But its nice you like to encourage her in sports. The only problem I can imagine would be if one of them is a problem drinker or something. Ive seen little girls touched in private places by drunken adults. But you know your friends. And thats probably not an issue. 👍
I started fishing with my dad and his buddies every year when I was around 8. It was so important to me that I could do something like that with him and I have very fond memories. I loved fishing, and especially catching the biggest fish in front of his friends! I never felt like a third wheel. Looking back (about 30 years ago), I am very grateful for my progressive thinking dad for including me. I would have been hurt if I knew boys could go, but I couldn't because I'm a girl . The only tricky thing being a girl on a fishing trip is the bathroom situation. But it's not impossible to figure it out.
UUUUUUUUGH!!!!! I'm female but you know what? If I'm allowed "girls night out", they sure af are allowed a "Bachelor weekend"! Good god - bin it with the toxic woke culture!
Woke culture is when a father wants to take his daughter fishing
Load More Replies... That dude needs new, non-sexist friends who aren't misogynistic douche-wads
let me invite all my dude-bros to your female-only gym. If you don't want to be around men then you are alao sexist
Load More Replies... Ooof I felt this... I was the first born in my family of hunter, fishermen, outdoors men grandfather and Uncles...I loved all of it! I was transfixed by my grandfather doing taxidermy and was beyond delighted to go fishing with him at 2am!! I loved all things outside! Then when I was about 8, my uncle had a little boy. I was completely forgotten about. It killed me. I have always been outdoorsy, I was even a wildland firefighter for a season. I'd go camping whenever I could and almost always had my gear in my car/ truck. I just love being outside! That they dumped me like that really affected me for a long time. My grandfather probably would have kept doing stuff with me, but he and my grandmother divorced. My uncles are a bit chauvinist and it took them a long time to realize I was a crack shot and a hell of a survivalist.
A long time ago, Robert Benchley said, "There are two levels of travel - first class and with children." I suggest they move to a two fishing trip schedule. One is with children, when the child is ready. (Parent decides that.) The other trip is adults-only, but including wives, girl friends, mistresses, FWPs, dominatrices, etc. Advantages - fairness, peace, harmony, and twice as much fishing!
When do the men get time to get away from women and relax?
Load More Replies... The person comparing the situation to an all male country club is so far out of line it isn't funny. When you think women went to court to invade men only spaces...only to turn around and create women only spaces....LMAO
And you can be offended that I used 'invaded' all you want. That's what happened.
Load More Replies... He isn't wrong for wanting to bring his daughter with; and his friends aren't wrong for not wanting her there....
It sounds like the friends may be a wee bit sexist. To be fair to them though, they probably fon't realize they have some sexist beliefs about women as they have never been challenged on this belief that "women can't go on our fishing trip" before... and judging by the edit they are starting to realize that their belief structure was wrong. So kudos to them for actually taking the time to analyze their beliefs and admit they were wrong. Hopefully they continue that trend in other areas of their life as well. Combating our own prejudices is hard and it's something you are never really finished doing.
Finally!!! I don't think they're assholes as many of the comments here suggest. And I don't think they had bad intentions. However their beliefs weren't right and they admitted it after being challenged and probably some days of thoughtful analyses
Load More Replies... What part of an all male fishing trip tradition do people not understand? Why can't guys just hang out and do that male bonding thing without bringing a female into the mix? The friends were not being sexist. They were trying to keep their male only fishing trip tradition male only... Just saying 🤷♀️
It was male only until they decided that it was a good idea to pass the tradition down to their kids
Load More Replies... It's a guys fishing trip. Of course your 5 year old daughter is not welcome. Snap out of this woke, both sexes are exactly the same, imaginary land mindset, and apologize to your friends. Males and females are not equal. They're different. Not lesser or greater, just different. And those differences should be celebrated! Having trips with all guys where everyone can unwind and not have to worry so much about how they behave being offensive or inappropriate is not sexist. And it doesn't imply that females are lesser than males.
It's male bonding nothing wrong with that. I have specifically did get togethers with just the women that excluded men and children. Gives women a break and they love it. There are many times where you will be by yourself with family with strangers etc etc. There is a time for everything.
A dude's trip can't be handed down to a daughter. I understand their reservations.
You see that’s toxic masculinity. “A dude’s trip can’t be handed down to a daughter”. Yeah it can, and they did it beautifully. They are being mature, admitting they were wrong and rectifying the situation. It was no big deal. Now you’ll have young boys who don’t think twice about a girl fishing and camping with them. And a girl who’s liberated from being pigeon holed as just a girl who can’t possibly enjoy, or do, what boys do. Plus some fathers who found a new way to look at things. In the long run this is what everyone is going to have to get used to. Women aren’t going back. If you have daughters, sisters, any female you care about, you should want this change for all of us. There will always be militant dumb asses in any group who are extremists, but todays feminism is for anyone affected by women being discriminated against. Think of the things that could have been accomplished in every walk of life if half the population hadn’t been held back for thousands of years….
Load More Replies... I think that there’s a time for everything. Even though they use the term girlfriend and wife, it’s a male bonding factor which the little girl should not be involved in. What I would do if I was the dad I would let my little daughter know that we can do a special daughter and dad fishing day. I make a tradition out of it she will love it and it’ll make her feel special. We shouldn’t stomp our feet when something doesn’t go our way. And it’ll be a great teaching experience for her.
I don't know what's more unsettling - the fact that they thought a 5 year old girl can NOT do what a 5 year old boy can, or the fact that they didn't even ask about it or even say 'we'll be camping outside, is that OK?' they just presumed the worst without even trying to involve the little girl... Its just so sad and I really hope that their minds have been blown wide open
My father took all of us (6 kids, 4 of us daughters) separately on fishing trips. *the BEST DAYS EVER* was to be with my dad, just the 2 of us spending a day on the lake, with sandwiches, up at dawn, having caught bait (worms) the night before. Dad taught me how to fish, but also the pleasure of just being while waiting. Some 40 years later, I still appreciate fishing, and "being while waiting".
NTA but that's what you get for upholding misogyny until it affects you lol
I once went to an all women’s college for a couple of classes. It was awesome and liberating. No smelly men leering at the women, trying to get “lucky”, just relaxed learning and good grades. Unfortunately, the teacher was a man. He was the dumbest person there. Sad but true.
They see everyday that women are stronger, smarter, braver, more competent and can do so much more than males. Even when they see it they refuse to accept it. They are so emotional and they cannot manage their feelings. Them saying women are weak and can't handle things is absolute b******t and they know it deep down. That's why they're so angry. That's why they're condescending and lie so much.
Eh, I can see her going maybe a year or two, and then the other dads quietly forming their own, second, male-only trip and not inviting him unless he agrees this new trip is guys-only. Because it's fine and simple when she's 5, but it won't be so uncomplicated when she's older.
The only problem I have with that is guy should be able to have their time with each other without necessarily having the presence of woman. When women decide to have their own time nobody says nothing which is fine women also need there time together without the presence of men. I completely understand wanting to create some kind of brotherhood/tradition in this context. They should create a daughter Father fishing version. The Father also could've have decide to bring her daughter on his own time. When the other friends have girls Juste create a Girl version. He could even ask her daughter if she has a girl friend and ask the Dad if we want to create something. I'm pretty sure all Men understand why they wanted something just for the boys. As much as we guys love our women. Today alot of guys suffering in silence if they say one thing negative about women they loose everything dude or just scared to be around women. Guys need these times just to keep some sort of balance.
As a Dude that went hunting and fishing with the Men of the family and would never consider taking a female with me with me on a guy only trip. Took the wife once on a weekend hunt just me and her. Plopped her down on a hot seat in a snow bank/blind in Northern Michigan in the closing days of deer season. We had fun but she only went the one time and never asked again to go. And yes we did see deer and she got to see the reason for the excitement to be out there. Still after 34 years of marriage she likes to stay home and warm. But bring home some game or fish she is elbow deep in cleaning and dressing out the meal. No daughters, One son all grown and now 3 Grandsons to pass on the skills to. Living the Dream. GW
Nothing wrong with a guys only weekend.Doesnt mean you hate women but a little male bonding isn't a bad thing.Women do stuff like that all the time.Why is everyone so oversensitive these days?
Women have women's only clubs and nights out..why is it only bad if men do it?There is nothing wrong with male bonding.Doesn't make you a woman hater to want a weekend with the guys.We live in a f****d up world these days
That ought to be a nice trip...taking a little girl on a fishing trip is rough... you can't tell her to stand up and whizz overboard. Men do a lot of things that little girls shouldn't be around. I took my daughter and my buddy took his daughter on a hunting trip together. We did knowing there would have to be special considerations for it. It changed the trip alot but it was a good trip. We couldn't sleep in a tent, couldn't just pull over to urinate and had to watch what we said the entire time. At the end of it, my daughter, his daughter both lost things on the trip, complained alot and refused to eat 2 meals Because of what we were eating and how fast we had to go. It was 50x rougher, 10x less fun but my daughter still had fun. Unfortunately it was the last trip I had with my buddy, he died from VA overdosing him in a surgery 6 months later. I know we both enjoyed it for a different reason, we both became primarily Dad's from that point on. He and I deployed together.
Everyone is so co dependent on each other. Take the daughter on your own outing. Why is this so difficult? This will be your time to bond alone. Why do they have to apologize? They were being honest. They apologized because they were guilt into it. This is all so ridiculous to me. Would it be the end of the world NOT to join these people and do your separate activities? Everyone needs to be babied. Am I alone in this?
What is wrong with having a all males trip ..we women do it all the time...how the hell sexist comes into play...boys wants boys time and so does females..there is nothing wrong with that...u ppl are silly..not everything needs to include the opposite gender sometimes we all need some alone time with our males friends only and females only...and there is nth wrong with that...u ppl are just foolish
I don't think it's sexist at all! There's nothing wrong with having some guy time. What about girls night out? Or no kids weekend? It's about getting a break! When did people get so sensitive? And good on him for staying by his daughters side! As long as they don't treat her differently its all good!
It's ok they just wanted males only trip. They may wanted to do male bonding. Little girls are suppose to be lady like and prissy and boys are suppose to be rough and tough. I don't think the men meant no harm. On the other hand, good they were good sports about the little girl attending.
Why can't guys just be allowed to have a guys weekend?? The women/girls in the group can come up with something else to do that weekend.
As someone who grew up in the country with 4 older brothers and LOTS of older guy cousins who hunted, fished and did "guy" stuff. My sister and I were NEVER left out. I started fishing at age 2 and started hunting at age 7, I remember when I was about 15, one of my close in age male cousins making a comment along the lines of "Why is she coming with us, only men hunt." And my uncle (who started all of us out hunting) snapped at him with, "SHE is a better shot then you, SHE actually knows how to be quiet when we're in the field, SHE can and does carry her own, AND you're not a man, because MEN don't say stupid s**t like that." Fast forward to the end of the day, not only did I tag my buck, he help me field dress and carry it out, I just thought he was trying to make up for the rude comment he made that morning. But come to find out a few years later, my uncle made him my b***h for that day. The dad did the right thing standing his ground to include his daughter.
It could have been viewed as discriminatory, but I also understand that with the " no wives no girlfriends" rule the guys just wanted to be around other guys and take a break from the feminine energy, they have in their everyday lives. I know some of my girlfriends just want to get together with other ladies, and get away form masculine energy for a while. As well as kids. I need a break from my kids some times. I don't think it was such a big deal.
Ok maybe it's a all dudes thing....they could've just said that. But listen worst case scenario Tim's boy ur daughter close 9/10 years later they are dating....I think I should keep it a all boys thing probably what they meant when they say no wives or gfs. Just don't overthink it. Y'all kids gonna ruin the tradition one day..lol
Y'all ppl too sensitive these days. So what if they don't want any females on their trip. It's ok to have guys only or girls only activities. I'm a boy Mom and I wouldn't want my son participating in all girl activities while we sit around talking about female stuff. If I had a daughter I most definitely wouldn't want her as the only female in a male setting.
I have been thinking about this for the past couple of days. If I was a mom, I would NOT let my daughter go, no way in hell. Especially a 5 year old who can't defend herself against an adult male. And as someone who knows an adult male who was wrongly accused of touching a young teen (who later admitting she lied because she had been grounded for being on web-sites that my brother had banned in the house), I wouldn't want a young child on a trip like this - male or female. Plus, my great uncle touched me on a fishing trip, so maybe I'm biased? Still can't stand to look at an earthworm to this day - makes me gag/throw-up.
Boys trips are important and that first guy bringing the son is the one who really changed it. Having kids brings a lot with it. Sounds like these guys navigated it well and are probably better friends for it. But I understand their concern though l. Having women along inevitably changes things. Why not do a trip with and without? Or if they don't care, do just what they did ☺️
Humans are creatures that are obsessed by their rules, to the point that they are bias to them until they find a need to bend them and form a loophole or make an exception. I think they honestly just really wanted to stick to that rule, however they could have easily made an exception, and I think they was just being fixated on traditions and not realizing that compromise is possible, all us humans low-key suffer from that
I am SO happy to see all of the people saying that men wanting a men only trip are misogynists. I will be even happier when I see those same people call out women-only gyms, spas, etc for being misandrist.
You're really d*ckriding that hard, huh? Women-only gyms are meant to be a safe place because women are constantly harrassed at the gym by men, some are even stalked, raped, or killed. And a majority of spas are not women only, going to a spa just isn't something that many men want to do, but most of them offer a couple session anyway. As soon as that one friend extended the trip to his son because he wanted to pass on the tradition, and gave the other kid a fishing pole, it was no longer adults only.
Load More Replies... What's the difference between an all guys weekend and a "girls night out"? If one of the kids happens to be a girl, so be it. They are going fishing! There is no need to be offended unless one chooses to be offended.
It is very clear from the beginning that the members wanted the group to be only boys or males. Unless you don't see that side of the agreement.
As a woman, I don't think there's anything wrong with them wanting a guys trip. Men and women are different, there's nothing wrong with guys occasionally hanging out with just guys or girls occasionally hanging out with just girls. If it was the other way around and me and my girl friends were having a spa day, I would have nothing wrong with them bringing their daughters but I don't think I'd want their sons to come because it's a girls trip
I can see this both ways. It is the beginning of the downfall to having a male weekend by having females going on a traditional males camping trip. The way our family has gotten around this, because we do like our men's weekends, and my wife and the rest of the ladies have their girls weekends, is we have family weekends. So basically we make sure we are getting together 3 times a year boys weekend, girls weekend and family weekend.
I don't see anything wrong with the all men's fishing trip,they should have just kept the same group and not added any kids.doing so they need to include all kids.girls go on girl trips.im 70 but not stuck on the feminine thing . I just think it would be more relaxing with their core group.now the whole dynamic is changed,not anything like original, that was part [f the fun. Is our world so messed up we can't have these traditional trips..that's silly.
I think dad should have a dad and daughter trip enjoying two trips a year. One with the guys and one with baby girl. 5 year old girls are too impressionable to weekend with all boys. With two trips you are getting the better of the deal 🙂
I didn't see mention of this in the story or comments; I'm assuming the "no wives/girlfriends rule is so they can actually catch up. Significant others usually focus on each other and that can lead to the friends not spending time together as intended (it becomes a "romantic getaway" for the couple). In that case it makes sense. However, kids aren't as bad in this sense, especially if there is more than one. They will play with each other so that the friends can have time to catch up.
Pretty sure if you want to have an all boys traditional fishing trip that's fine. Not sure why women have to make it ridiculous. Have a girls fishing trip and let the boys have their fun. So dumb
Am I the only one that doesn't understand how the race comment was applicable?
Lmao. 100% nta. My daughter is more likely to camp and fish than my son! Friends need a reality check. But glad you've all smoothed it over.
If his friends hadn't realized their stupidity my advice would be to get new friends. Your daughter doesn't deserve to be limited by outdated ideas.
The only thing I will say in Tim's defense is he cleared it with his friends first before bringing his son Opie just said his daughter is going. An analogy would be if my sister Emily wanted me to come over one night and we were going to hang out for a few days at her house what have you she'll take me out to local restaurants but my friend Sarah is in town and I bring Sarah to Emily's house without clearing it with Emily but in the past if I've invited my sister over she asks it it's okay to bring her kid it's the same thing granted this is outside in the woods and your fishing but it's the same general principle Opie messed up by not clearing it but yes it's a worse thing that his friends did by immediately thinking it wasn't okay
Glad the friends turned around and apologized but still that is sexism
His friends apologized and admitted they were wrong. Fair enough. They were taken by surprise obviously, thought about it and realized their error. THEY APOLOGIZED. Some are saying what horrible human being they were. The OP has known them for a long time, he’s probably a better judge than others.
Please don’t assume that men think girls are “less than.” Some guys are just scared of us. We’re smarter and live longer, we have more efficient brains (yes, it’s a proven fact) and our immune systems are stronger. Men are scared of us. Just saying……….
My dad used to take me elk hunting as soon as I was old enough, I'm female. We are talking freeze your backside off single digit cold, sleep in an non insulated camper shell, use an outhouse and cook over a campfire camping. I loved it!
WOW, I am now 51, my dad taught me to fish and get bait. It was my thing with dad, he's gone now and I miss him very much but when I fish and meet people in my town, I am and will be always the little girl that was fishing with Bill. I treasure that, I'm sure your daughter will too. Ps. When I fish on day boats now the skipper assumes I am the one needing help, but no it's the 65+ males that do !!!
When I was small money was tight so fishing was a way of eating when there was nothing else.. this carried on with me and my children. I am so very thankful that my dad had taught me for my children's sake x
Load More Replies... The no woman rule is simple, it's the same reason girls have. A "girls night out" without the boys, it's more relaxing to not have to deal with relationship issue while having fun, not to mention fishing trips aren't cheap so having to take your focus off the fishing to help your woman or do something with her/for her is a waste of fishing time having to deal with some drama, it's not a shot at woman to say they are naturally prone to causing issues 🤣 but it's the truth. We would love for them to be there with us but girls don't usually understand the point of it and might even complain, it's just not a girl thing in the first place, you'd have to raise the girl around it so she learns to enjoy and understand it. Our fishing group had wives/girlfriends come along before and they never come again on the more serious longer trips for good reason. The shorter FUN trips sure everyone can come to have a good time button the days you gotta focus on fishing it's all about business.
My Dad was a farm kid, and Mom was raised to fish, hunt, change a tire, etc. No delicate flowers there! It is so crazy to me that in the 21st century there are still men who think like Victorians.
Fwiw, I completely get the "no wives/no girlfriends" rule. Significant others are a detraction from the bonding experience. That said, the bonding has increased to not just friends and brothers, but now to father's. Accordingly, the tradition of adding five year olds is a beautiful addition to their bonding experience.
I could see the friends point they wanted it to be guys only fishing trip and bring their sons as they got old enough to keep a tradition going. Now I could see making an exception if the guy only has daughters and one wants to go but the friends should be allowed to say no...it's OK for rules stay. Because they said yes doesn't mean wives and girlfriends can go but daughters could shows they understood his position and were willing to have her along. Some girls are tougher than grown men.
I showed this post to my friends and they all changed their minds. Bunch of women anyway.
If you (OP) leave your daughter out of the fishing trip, she will forever hate you for it. No matter the gender, a child is and will be a child, forever joyful, curious, etc... F**k your rules, take all your kids along. It can still be a boys club, minor exception for the kids. It's not sexist and/or discriminatory, it's only a child.
Uhhh.. bro? If your friends think that with a daughter tagging along they would "have to stay in a hotel"...???? Yeh. They ARE sexist! And it's that type of mentality that is destroying the world. Maybe you should have told them that she would be wearing her burka, so everything would be good! So.. no. YOU'RE not the ashore but, you might want to consider the type of people you hang around with!
Wow! I slept in tents many times. A cabin would have been luxury, hell I once slept on an ant hill against a tree during Army training. They were asleep also no disturbance for either party. Yes, I am a female.
I was a tomboy growing up. My dad always took me with huntin and fishin. I never thought any different if boys were along or not. No one cared.
Males boning is kind of ruined when theres a female present. Ive been to bachelor parties with boys present. The male bonding was family friendly but it was still male bonding.
Ok so most the women commenters are pretty sexist themselves. I'm a woman and totally understood the friends concerns and understood the ops side as well. I'm very happy they all talked and realized they were being childish. I always went fishing with my step-dad (rip) and his friends. They didn't ever sensor themselves and I always had fun. They turned and I turned when urinating was needed. I will always cherish thoughs times. I miss my step-dad so much. I'm so happy you and your friends are carrying on the tradition. Just remember now the rules gotta change to no GFs/BFs or wives/husband's lol. Unless she marries one of your friends kids later in life. 😆 girls do like the outdoors as well so she is gonna have so much fun and be a huge daddies girl. That bond will be unbreakable.
I just don't understand why Men are so a**l about fishing. I am a 72yr old woman and love fishing and the (what once used to be) serenity it. Every time I'm at a lake I am harassed. Raped and robbed. Treated either as a poacher or a hooker. Duh! There is no clause on my fishing licence that says "men only" I grew up near a dammed River where my sisters + I enjoyed fishing as much as my brothers did. What's the big deal Canada? Isn't this "beautiful BC" for ALL to enjoy?.🤨😠😮.
You’ve ruined what was an awesome tradition by being a big baby. You should’ve just taken your daughter on her own little adventure. And honestly, by what I can tell about you, you are probably better suited for the female trip. Although your friends have apologized, only because they’re nice people and not because they feel like they were wrong, I guarantee they do not look at you the same and have plenty to say when you’re not around.
I am happy he stood up for his daughter!! And I am also happy the friends did the right thing!! (There is a BIG difference between "no wives, no girlfriends" and bringing the 5-year-olds!!!)
Men and women's bodies don't make people any more or less able to do thinks like go fishing or a spa day. Yeah you know men die if the enter a spa and women die if you hand them a fishing pole.
Personally if the kid wants to go a good father will take the child. Now that being said. I don't fish. I am allergic to all fresh water and salt water fish. I has some friends who would have taken my kids if they ever wanted to go or I would have arranged for them to fly to Colorado and do it with their Grandfather. The argument wouldn't have been so much why as to if you don't like it to bad. My kids come before friends. That's as simple as I gets.
And yes you are an A*S you f****d up a tradition and everyone that post or think otherwise is f****d up in the head Period
Again all white people problem's because with the "no wife no girlfriends" You gotta know it's code for no females d******d
A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO GANG UP ON A PERSON TO SEPERATE THEM FROM THIER FAMILY IS NOT FRIENDS. IN MY BIOLOGICAL DADS CASE HE HAD BEFRIENDED PREDATORY SURGONS WHO OFFERD THIER FRIENDS AS BABYSITTERS. IM CONCERD FOR MY BIOLOGICAL DAD BECAUSE HIS FRIENDS SEPERATED HIM FROM HIS FAMILY PERMNANTLY STOLE MY TUITION AND VEHICLES AND LIE AND SAY I GAVE IT ALL AWAY TO THEM. IN REALITY THEY HAD APPLIED FOR CUSTODY OF HIS FAMILY MEMBERS AND MAKE HIM LIVE IN THE FISHING CAMP UNDER MEDICAL MUNCHAUSEN
I am a sixty two year old woman . I can put hunt, out fish and out shoot most people. Loved it growing up. Floating the river for the day fishing is a joy everyone needs to experience. Let bring everyone into the 21st century. Anyone can do anything. All it takes is a little effort.
MY FAMILY LIVES AT OUR JOB. SO I GET OVER IT BECAUSE I DONT LIKE MY BIOLOGICAL DADS FRIENDS ANYWAY. THE BABYSITTER IS WORSE THAN HIS FRIENDS THE BABYSITTER TURNED INTO A FOSTER FAMILY KIDNAPED ME 6000 MILES AWAY FROM HOME AND LIES AND SAYS THEY GAVE BIRTH TO ME THAT STEALS MY IDENTITY. IVE SPENT 40 YEARS CALLING THE POLICE ON THE BABYSITTER FOR MAKING A SECOND BIRTH CERTIFICATE ON ME. THE FISHING FRIENDS FAILED TO TOW THE LINE IN OUR PRISON WARDEN FAMILY
What happens when his daughter hits puberty? Or when she becomes a teenager? Does he really want to subject her to a group of men/friends and their ‘guy trip’ behavior? Should they have to curb their normal guy trip behavior because of their new member? Same can be said for the 7 year old son. I see it almost like a right of passage for the son, but he too, at that age could be exposed to too much adult guy trip behavior. If it were a girls trip, I wouldn’t want my 5 year old son or daughter along for the trip. I wouldn’t want my husband, brother, uncle, nephew…along for that trip either. Just the girls. No kids. No dudes. Wouldn’t have just been better if he took his 5 year old daughter and his friend take his 7 year old son on their own little separate daddy and child fishing trip? Start a new tradition , man! Let the group hold onto its original integrity.
It's funny that the OP claims that his friends aren't decider when that is EXACTLY what they are. He is NTA but he sure is guilty of associating with them and overlooking their sexist BS.
Wtf was that one idiot talking about, bringing race into the situation? It was an ignorant and baseless comparison. And just absolutely fn stupid. Also, there is plenty of "black only" or other race only bullsh*t which is a double standard. If it's racist from one side, it's racist from all sides. It's the fn action that's racist, and people need to wake tf up and realize that simple fact.
But girls nights aren't sexist? Where there is usually no husbands no boyfriends? It's only sexist because guys said no wives no girlfriends? ..glad he got to take his daughter...I don't see sexism at all...so maybe the girls can take the sons to their spa day or whatever. Bet not tho. Because that's different.
Women bring their boyfriends or husbands to girls night all the time. The sexism is them only not wanting her to go because they assumed that she would need to be pampered in a hotel
Load More Replies... Why are these stories so poorly written? The repetition is so BORING! This kind of format appears haphazard with cutting and pasting numerous times. Are the authors paid per word? The content is clouded because of it!
If this was a men's only type trip where they're making crude jokes or inappropriate behavior then I could see it may not be a good place to bring a 5 year old girl. Then again, the boy shouldn't be going then either. Doesn't sound like it was that kind of trip tho, just dudes hanging out and fishing (she will likely learn new swear words tho lol)
Kids are kids, between my brother and I (F) he was always the whiny one. I freaking hate this division of gender and interests or behavior. Hormones aren't even a factor until puberty so... One having a penis or not changes nothing about a child. How you and others treat them do. So go dad! Good job for sure.
Here is my two cents. My father was an avid fisherman. He lived for it and my 2 younger brothers participated as well. 9 times out of 10 there were no females. Not because they felt we were less than or any of the other ridiculous scenarios I have read but because most of the time we got bored pretty quickly. There where rules. Lol. Like no talking while fish were biting. Getting up at the butt crack of dawn or before. Peeing over the side of a boat and a myriad of other s**t we (mom, sister and i) found distasteful. Early on we realized that while they were doing their thing we had to whole house without testosterone hanging in the air.. Haha. And we could eat good stuff and watch the best Rom-Coms. All sleep in my Mom's bed. Swim, sunbathe, go garage sale shopping, run around without worrying about modesty or icky boy stuff. Not a slight against the menfolk but we celebrated our gender diversity. Females were proud to be as we are and Males were proud to be who they are. Good times
The thing with people who are sexist or racist or any other prejudice is the find ways to justify their beliefs. This group made assumptions based on their sexist belief. I hope they learn from this experience.
Wow, I think you should start camping and fishing with your daughter and family on your own......still go wit ya boys but if you take her, their going to act weird and rude if she even makes a sound....these sound like the type of guys you should be keeping her away from. If I was her mom I wouldn't let her go.
Kids should be able to spend time with there dads. But if it's only for adults and there is adult entertainment meant then kids shouldn't be there. Not sexist, men should want to do things with there kids and and friends it's there God giving right. If women want a wives want to bring there children's with them on there outings. Then fine its there provocative. Same for men. Nothing wrong with that. I hope you enjoy your trip. Hope it was blessed time. !!!!!!
i would dump that fishing trip and take my daughter on your own. just because she is female they see her a less than. is that what you want to expose her to? i think you two should start a yearly trip of your own. and forget them you two would probably have way more fun just the two of you. I'm sorry to say this but your friends are MCP's. do you want to expose her to those kind of men?
Daughter shouldn't go. It's a guy's only trip and will only get more complicated as she gets older. The redditor who compared it to race is a complete idiot. Biological sex is not the same as skin color.
The fishing trip was clearly meant to be males only. I think the OP was in the wrong. If the OP wanted to take his daughter fishing they could have e gone on their own. His daughter would have loved it none the less. It's not many things we as men do as a show of fellowship. This was their thing. The OPs friends aren't sexist, the OP should have read the room better. Ladies, everything we do, does not need to include you.
Literally compared no wives or gf...to whites only...literally this is whats wrong with the world...these are soooooo far from each other...and yes a 5yr old boy is dif then a 5yr old girl.....and the op acted even worse...my kid cant go so yours cant
They never mentioned color it's because one said passing the tradition instantly bringing kids into it
Load More Replies... There's litterally nothing wrong with this. Just as mothers have all women trips the boys are allowed to do the same. Yall just like to b***h and complain about everything lol
Never heard of all girl trips with daughters lol. Also, you're sexist, misogynistic and terrible at assumptions.
Load More Replies... You are NTA but I can understand where they are coming from its a little trip for the Bros. NTA you are just the first to break that norm and they over reacted. And to all the ladies in here it would be the same if one of yalls friends said they wanted to bring their son on yalls yearly spa vacation. Sometimes we just need a break.
Incorrect. Anyone can be brought on any trip if it's a kid-parent/caregiver scenario. Let kids be interested in things. Regardless of whatever gender label a kid has, all they want to do is spend time with the adults in their lives and do what they do at that age especially. If they want to stop going when they get older, let them have that choice. It's not hard. It's not complicated. Everyone just has a weird b*ner for gendered trips
Load More Replies... So, what happens, when his little girl isn't a little girl anymore ? She's going to need the hotel and clean bathrooms. Where do you draw the line between the sexes?
You do know that there are ways to be sanitary while outdoors, right? There are multiple women that hike across the country and are still sanitary.
Load More Replies... I have to say Don't take her.....as one of four girl with a brother thrown in between....love my siblings, but growing up his inclusion in some things changed the vibe/conversation....and he noticed girl code glances.....funny at times...but we would wait until we were alone to clarify....love goes without saying....but it does change somethings with mixed company.....that's life
Still makes them sexist / and super creepy. Who considers a 6 yo girl a wife or girlfriend??? Best thing to do is leave the trip a buddy trip. Do a father son thing trip separately and a father daughter trip separately.
Load More Replies... Still doesn't change the fact that they're sexist. I'd leave it as a buddy only trip. Why would you be ok saying things stroud a son that you wouldn't say around a daughter unless you're training you son to be sexist? Gross.
Load More Replies... No, it's not a guy trip. He clearly stated it's a buddy trip. That means no kids. Tim should have been told no. They San have a different trio that sons can ho on. Doesn't change the fact that they were blatantly sexist. The fact that you call OP an AH for standing against sexism makes YOU the AH.
Load More Replies... If that were true the wouldn't have brought up the ways they assumed the girl would ruin the trip like having to stay in a hotel. The ate sexist without question. You likely are too since you completely missed the very blatant sexism. You're the one who is confused
Load More Replies... Guys only, or girls only, is fine for adults. When you include young children, gender shouldn't matter for the child.
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