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“These People Have No Idea What Struggle Is”: Twitter Mocks Article Explaining The Struggles Of Those Earning $400k Annually

“These People Have No Idea What Struggle Is”: Twitter Mocks Article Explaining The Struggles Of Those Earning $400k Annually

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The use of the word “rich” really boils down to perspective. A poor person may see someone from the middle class as rich, though that same middle class someone might not see it the same way and consider the upper class rich.

However, there’s also a threshold—a very objective one—whereby you can’t but say “yeah, (s)he’s rich.” Many would without a doubt say that an annual salary of, let’s say, $400,000 is definitely one that would define a rich person or household.

Well, turns out, for some, that amount of money isn’t all that much, and Twitter disagrees with such a statement wholeheartedly.

More Info: Twitter

This Twitter user recently pointed out an online article that claims $400k isn’t “exactly living large”

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In particular, how a family of four living in a metropolitan city wouldn’t really have that much money left over after all of their taxes and expenses

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A CNBC article from October 2020 has recently resurfaced online. The article discusses Biden’s definition of wealth, in particular progressively taxing those with a $400,000 annual salary. However, it considers it from a different perspective—one where $400k isn’t actually deemed “rich.”

It argues that, if you’re someone who has a spouse, two kids, and lives in a major city, $400k isn’t “exactly living large,” especially considering all of the taxes and possible expenses based on FinancialSamurai.com’s calculations.

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The article based its arguments on Financial Samurai’s calculations found below

Image credits: Financial Samurai

According to them, monthly net income for someone earning $400,000 is almost $22,000. Deduct the expenses—everything from daycare, preschool, mortgages, and insurance to food, gas, car payments, savings, and other necessities—and you’re left with $3. So, does that really mean someone’s rich?

Well, computer scientist and politics enthusiast Dr. Mansa Keita brought up the $400k isn’t rich statement on his Twitter, saying “I’m convinced these people have no idea what struggle is like,” leading tweeters to start debating the issue.

Well, Twitter reacted by calling it ridiculous and arguing that $400k actually is the definition of rich

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“These People Have No Idea What Struggle Is”: Twitter Mocks Article Explaining The Struggles Of Those Earning $400k Annually

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While opinions and perspectives differed, many of them did agree that it’s ridiculous to say that $400,000 is not rich. Some argued that this kind of wealth still entails that though, at the end of the day, you don’t have much money left, you still end up buying nice things, like 2-million-dollar houses and brand new cars.

Others pointed out that some of the calculations do include overspending, like the $2,000 monthly food budget. Yet others say that there are expenses that can be eliminated, like less shopping or less charity. And think of all the money you’ll save once kids leave daycare and preschool.

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“These People Have No Idea What Struggle Is”: Twitter Mocks Article Explaining The Struggles Of Those Earning $400k Annually

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“These People Have No Idea What Struggle Is”: Twitter Mocks Article Explaining The Struggles Of Those Earning $400k Annually

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Also, driving a Toyota as a family of 4 seems more sensible than driving a Lamborghini. Sure, it would be cool, but highly impractical when picking up kids from school.

Though there were some who confirmed that, for example, it is quite realistic for a family of 6 to spend as much as the table claims a family of 4 spends on food, making it quite plausible in their opinion.

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Others said that the mentioned $2M home could quite likely end up being just a 1,500-square-foot affair on a tiny lot with no yard and originally built five decades ago—nothing rich about it. But, the overall consensus is that it could have been mitigated by simply being smarter with the money.

The tweet ended up garnering nearly 40,000 likes with thousands of retweets. It also made some headlines on the internet.

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You can read more replies by checking out the tweet replies. But before you go, tell us what you think about this in the comment section below!

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lunanik avatar
Nikki Sevven
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is ridiculous. The problem with people like this is that they're already living beyond their means, and unwilling to budget a reduction in their luxurious lifestyle to pay taxes. (1) You don't need a car in a metro area, never mind a gas guzzling, high end SUV. Use public transportation. (2) Your savings plan clearly includes 16 years of private schooling for two children. Send your kids to public school. (3) If you're spending $65/day on food, cut back on restaurant meals and takeout. (4) Don't buy a $2M house, then bitch that you can't afford it. (5) No one needs a 20G/month data plan unless they're streaming porn all day long. (6) If you're taking three vacations a year, STFU. You ain't poor. (7) If you can afford to give $3G to charity, GTFO of here with your whining about money.

cassiewilliams avatar
Cassie
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also, I have four kids who are now teens and adults and have never ever spent anywhere close to $200 per month for clothes even for the entire family and even when they were constantly growing out of everything. That's just nuts.

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mariannecontrino avatar
Marianne Contrino
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I find it interesting that whenever there's an article about young/lower income people, and how they spend their money, it's always focused on how they need to be better about budgeting, and prioritizing what's important...needs over wants. You know, less avocado toast, and Starbucks, more cook at home, and save, save, save, but you NEVER see that in reports like this. They want to criticize those making $40,000 a year for eating out once a week, but not the people making 10 times that, who seem to be eating out everyday?!?! And if you're pulling in 400k a year, then I'm guessing you have a job with good benefits, and retirement package, those of us on the lower end probably don't have either, so an illness has the potential to bankrupt us, or cost our jobs for missing work to deal with it. And don't get me started on the vast improvements to ones mental health there are, when you don't have to worry about putting food on the table everyday. I realize $400,000 is different, depending on where you live, but this idea that they're struggling too, is absolute nonsense. Just eat out less, vacation closer to home, and downsize subscription services, if it's the supposed "cure all" for our money woes, it can work for them too. God, this reeks of the "rich people are just like you" propaganda bs we see pop up when they don't want to pay their fair share, and I for one am tired of it.

k-jane39 avatar
Elio X
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Seriously. These people put almost my annual income into a 401K every year, so cry me a river. I know they aren't the same level as wealthy as people like Bezos and Bezos should be taxed even more, but they are still well-off and it's factually wrong to act like they only have $34 left to pay for miscellaneous expenses. Let's be generous and say they need the mortgage and need the pricey daycare. They still spend a lot of money on variable expenses like recreation, vacation, and oh yeah AVOCADO TOAST or take-out. (Also, I'm not sure why the daycare and pre-school have overlapping times unless it's the price for one of the kids to be in daycare and the other one to be in pre-school.) I wasn't aware that nearly $4K on zoo trips and Netflix was an essential expense. Not to mention, when it comes to younger people, the complaints are that we do too much take-out or Starbucks but that we're bad for killing Applebee's or other chain restaurants. Like pick one.

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saragregory0508 avatar
N G
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To pick up on the food bill. The chart states a family of 4 spends $2000 on food, including regular deliveries. For comparison, the average UK family of 4 spends (at current exchange rate) $861. That includes what is defined as "food prepared outside the house". Either the US is massively ripped off when it comes to food prices, or this family of 4 is massively, and unnecessarily, spending on food/groceries. This spreadsheet reads as someone who is *very bad with money*! It makes my budgeting brain itch.

saragregory0508 avatar
N G
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This has really bothered me. So I checked the details of a program called Rich House Poor House. (not exactly a reliable source, but the numbers involved are still revealing, even if I'm blowing my credibility!) The families involved are in the economic top and bottom 10%. One of the latest episodes had the Rich family (of 4 - so still comparable) spending $1,785 a month on groceries. That's at a farm shop, not a supermarket (even a high-end one). And for reference, nearly all of the top 10% families who feature on the show are millionaires. If they spend less than what a family on half their income "budgets" for on food - I know why they're millionaires! This spreadsheet is a work of fiction worthy of Hemingway!

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sashakuleshov avatar
Sasha Kuleshov
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

400K per year is 1100 buck per day, what the f*ck are they buying to struggle with money? ._.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The Twitter users are posing it as struggle. The article quoted simply said that they don't live like rich people, the way you might think with that salary. They would outside of an expensive metro. Of course, if they moved, the salaries wouldn't be that high. These folks are upper middle class on that money. They have a good savings plan. They have money for vacations, entertainment, private school and activities for the kids. I doubt they think they're struggling. Some Twitter user interpreted it that way.

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wingnut9339 avatar
Pilot Chick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They spend more than I make in a year on daycare and preschool. I bet I could find them a bunch of ways to save money.

costa2706 avatar
Kari Panda
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I can’t comment on how realistic these numbers are since I‘m not from the US, but what I don’t get is how a) $400k per year for a family of 4 apparently is just enough to get by with normal living standards but b) minimum wage apparently is enough as it is and doesn’t need to be raised?

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The majority of Americans actually support raising the minimum wage. However we have a party that is in the minority that has disproportionate power and representation, that is standing in the way of raising it. Our campaign system also allows what is essentially legalized bribery, so we have a lot of politicians that serve their paymasters rather than the people.

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dks001 avatar
DKS 001
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wish I has $400,000 a year to complain about. Last year I earned a whopping $21,700 and live with someone on disability who gets a little over $700 a month to live on. So the household is about $28,000 a year. Rent is $6600 a year, No health insurance (that would be $2400 a year plus $3000 to pay before insurance would kick in). Utilities about $2000 a year. Phones $1500 a year. Food roughly $5000 a year. Student loans about $1200 a year. Car / gas = about $1200 a year. Necessities around $2000 a year. Now ... after taxes, that $21700 is knocked down to about $19000 net. So what's left over goes to any sudden medical, vet, car, or winter emergencies. And trying to save money. I don't have a $2M home. I don't pay for schools or daycare (must be a nanny). I don't go on vacations or take time off unless I'm sick. I don't have 401K or insurance. If you have $400,000 and you're "not making ends meet", you'd best be looking at what you're wasting all that on!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I’m sorry DKS. Whatever you do, your time is surely worth more than what you are being paid.

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breakmyheart avatar
Something
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

While a person who earns that much should definitely be considered rich, there is also a huge difference between the moderately wealthy and the super wealthy.

emmajgarv avatar
Niffler_13
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't feel sorry for those people. The rest of us have to learn to live within our means. My family went on 2 vacations, first, when I was a toddler because my grandparents lived in Florida, and then when I was 10 because my extended family went and we got a large group deal. My first car was 15 years old and had 100,000 miles on it and I drove it for 5 years. I'm fortunate that I can pay my bills and afford the occasional dinner out or night at the movies (when that was still a thing).

blue-stars avatar
cursed--alien
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How the f**k is regular takeaway and vacations not part of leftover cashiola?

pandoraxvii avatar
CanidaeVulpes
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First, I do agree the chart is not right. There’s lot of books out there (Rich Dad Poor Dad, Millionaire Next Door) which shows that you usually can’t tell who is a millionaire in everyday life. This chart looks more like celebrities, influences, or people trying to live rich extravagant lives. Because income taxes are a loaded and charged issue, and for good reason - your punishing people (and corporations) for making money, maybe something new should be tried. The tax system itself is a mess and with so many loopholes I wouldn’t be surprised if no one really ends up paying more taxes. I think what needs to be done is drastically simplify the tax code, maybe a flat tax or something like that. Couple that with maybe a luxury tax instead. I’m not an expert, but it seems foolish to me to keep trying the same old thing expecting better results.

ma-lahann avatar
marianne eliza
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$400K is more than the grand prize in Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes. The current PCH game is $7K/week for life. That's only $364K/yr.

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$364k a year is a shít load of money. I wouldn’t work anymore if someone was just giving me that.

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lassila-alexander avatar
danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No matter how high the taxes get, it will never be enough, since Democrats have taught most minorities, and white women, that they deserve to receive ''free'' stuff, without contributing with anything.

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I suppose those taxes will be used to reward poor mothers popping out kids for welfare.

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It used to be about 400k per person, but they changed it to 400k per family. It will probably change to less per family, after a while.

gnatsin avatar
Natalie KS
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm not rich by any means. In fact, I'm poor af. I completely understand the comment about living beyond one's means should apply to wealthy people too. I have an issue with grouping people making $400K a year in with people making $400M a year. There is no comparison. Does that cause the moderately rich people to consider themselves 'Bezos' or 'Musk' level rich? Do they realise that they're closer to becoming broke and homeless than ever achieving multi-millionaire (much less useless billionaires) levels of wealth? It makes me wonder if the repulsively rich push the idea that 'the Poors are taking all your tax money', causing the moderately wealthy to disparage less fortunate people, while the Bezos of the world line their pockets with tax breaks and money from cuts to social services? Yes, $400K is wealthy. But they're fed propaganda so they'll support the mega-rich's exploitation of the Poor, while foolishly expecting the mega-rich to give a s**t about them.

samjasonwexler avatar
sam
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The issue with these tax hikes, as the original article is pointing out, is that they affect mid-level earners. They don’t actually hit the people who SHOULD be paying more taxes like the Kardashians, Elon Musks, and Jeff Bezos of the country. And directing your rightful anger about inequity at people who have done moderately well for themselves is misplaced. They’re trying to function in the same system as you. It’s the people who are earning millions upon millions and even billions and are therefore able to live outside the system who deserve your anger. And before anyone jumps on me, this is my opinion as a struggling creative who will likely never make that much money. And I don’t know about you, but I haven’t really seen the government spend taxes in a way that benefits people like us much. More military spending? Sure. More lining the pockets of corrupt politicians? Yup. So whether or not people making 400k a year are struggling, isn’t really the point...continued...

samjasonwexler avatar
sam
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

...The system is corrupt and people at that benchmark are still living under its oppression. And as one person pointed out 400k in Des Moines is very different than 400k in San Francisco. But you have to be living in SF to make 400k, you’d likely be making a quarter of that or less in Des Moines working the same job.

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deathmetalkitty avatar
Death Metal Kitty
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Who needs to spend $2,400 a year a clothes? Who buys new clothes every month! Something is very wrong with this family if they're burning through this much money on fast fashion!

malaspirited avatar
Arikan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Amazing how the people with the greater income are going nuts about having to give up the tiniest part of it. (Let me also point out the “mid-range Toyota Highlander” LOL) I start feeling that people in the USA are totally lost in their unrealistic Hollywoodish expectations of how life should be. That is why they live on antidepressants, thinking life is meant to be easy and happy as f**k, and that is why they think driving a car smaller than a dinosaur is pure tragedy.

steeperslope avatar
Jeff K
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know what the right line to draw is for higher taxes, but to me, what people are missing out on is that housing and other basic costs in major urban areas are so high, that you need to make much more to live a comfortable life. The hidden issue is that large number of Americans no longer can afford to own a house, go on vacations, provide for their kids, save for retirement, and do other things we think people should be able to do to thrive. Meanwhile, a tiny number of people have amassed wealth beyond the imagining of emperors.

amberyoung_2 avatar
AY1984
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This article is so out of touch. My husband and I are in the middle/upper end of middle class. When I lost out what I can do with my money compared to a friend who's family make 30k less than I do my struggles are extremely different. At one point I had two car payments that equaled $1100 a month, a mortgage, daycare and other expenses that families from a different income would not normally have. If I chose to live like my friends did then I would end up being about to put away $1500 a month easily into savings. If this family of 4 with 400k lived like my husband and I do then they would end up with 280k a year to fall back on. People making 60k a year don't have that excess money like that to fall back on and if I lived like someone who made 60k I would have 40-50k a year to fall back on. It is not a great comparison.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the key factor here is living in an expensive metro area. The housing costs are insane, which, in turn, drives up the price of everything. $400K in most of the country is living large. $400K in some place like San Francisco is upper middle class. The median rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco is $2,600. Got kids? Want a 3 bd place? $4,500. Still, a lot of people here are interpreting this article like somehow these folks think they're struggling. They're not. I don't think they think they're struggling, either. They live a solidly upper middle class life. They don't live the lives of wealthy people, though. If you look at their budget, they are putting away savings, too.

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kjorn avatar
kjorn
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

wow... 7000$ for vacation??? that's priviledged. ONCE a year my family and i go camping and it cost us almost 500$ and it's a luxury for us! don't cry baby me for THREE vacancy a week for 7000$ buck!

sykes2477 avatar
SykesDaMan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree, 400K/year isn't that much... If you're a family of 75...

juli_june avatar
June
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I thought I was "lower middle class" with my 25k annual. Just figured out I'm broke as hell 😂

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago

This comment has been deleted.

momincombatboots03 avatar
Madre_Dr4gnZFly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OK...so NOBODY bothered to question a cell phone FAMILY plan with 2 kids that aren't even old enough for KINDERGARTEN??!!

jamespointer avatar
James Pointer
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got stuck on $65 a day food.... I really want to see that food pile... Can I take take some of that so I can eat what's nutritionally recommended each day instead of under cutting myself?

zovjraar avatar
zovjraar
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

my husband and i made close to $60k combined last year. and i got a tax refund. we're saving for retirement and donated $2k to charity last year. i expect to donate more this year. i grew up poor af and i want to help others.

dirigobill avatar
Bill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Where exactly is the tax rate on the home this little?

emilyaverill avatar
Emily Boeding Averill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My definition of living it up: going to the zoo, saving for my kid's college, taking 3 weeks of vacation a year, paying an entire teacher's salary to watch my kids, buying 2 cars, getting food delivered, shopping at anywhere other than Walmart clearance, giving to charity, paying more than $3 a meal per person....

emilyaverill avatar
Emily Boeding Averill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The student to teacher ratio for their daycare and preschool must be 1:1 because they are paying an ENTIRE TEACHER'S SALARY a year.

alishadavies7 avatar
Alisha Davies
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Our family makes 90 000 a year . For me this is lower middle class In our town . 400 000 is rich to me.

changedmoon avatar
Hugo A-niro
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How about the people living in disability ? don't care about these people

geekymcdork avatar
Aubrie Allen
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

These poor people having to take small, not extravagant vacations. I'm almost 40 and have never been on vacation. Any time off I get, I use to catch up on sleep. Most of us can't afford any type of vacation.

robindjw avatar
Robin DJW
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I never made more than $90K, I am comfortably retired, have no debt, and like some other Pandas here, would pay more tax to be sure everyone had medical care and enough to eat. My two kids grew up when the 4 of us had less than 35K per year. It was tough, but we did it and no one suffered. $400K is ridiculous. That list of expenses is a joke.

norartnorart avatar
Norart
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And this is why all these people are moving out of California. And bringing their mess and insane politics to you a city near YOU.

lesburleson avatar
Leslie Burleson
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think this is more about incomes not rising as fast as inflation is. Everything is so expensive . With everything that you need to pay for : car , car insurance , gas , mortgage or rent , insurance for mortgage or rent , medical care , medicine , daycare , food etc etc . It's really hard for young people to become independent because you can't pay for all of these things with a beginner's income or making minimum wage . Our financial structure needs fixed .

nathanjones_2 avatar
Nathan Jones
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I live in Virginia Beach. A resort city with a notoriously high cost of living. Prior to my divorce last year, we had a nice sized 4 bedroom house in a great neighborhood. We also have two kids, just to keep costs in perspective. Our house was $358,000 with a monthly mortgage payment of just under $2,000. I drove a brand new Jeep cherokee, and my wife drove a brand new Nissan altima. Combined monthly cost of that was around $500. Full coverage health insurance for the entire family cost us $348. We went on a one-week vacation every year at a cost of $2,000. we had the maxed out packages for cable, internet, and cell phones. We also had the newest cell phones every year. We had subscriptions to netflix, hulu, and Amazon prime, along with a few other ones. I am a cook, so we ate gourmet meals every meal at home. Even with that, our grocery bill was around $1,200 a month. Whatever we wanted, we bought. Whenever we wanted to go somewhere, we went. Between the four of us, we spent around $2,000 a year on new clothes and shoes. Me and my wife were also each a one pack a day smoker, so that was an added expense of around $15 every day. We didn't want for anything, and we were very far from what anybody would consider struggling. We were a single income household, and I was making $78,000 a year. There is no f*****g way a family of four is even remotely in the vicinity of struggling, unless they are living well beyond their means. WEEEELLLLLLL beyond.

anilda32 avatar
Anilda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They get 500k in ZAR per month... which can buy you a Merc cash, or 6 months salary will pay off a pretty well sized home... The list goes on. Yes poor them :-p

veraxtactus avatar
Pamda Panda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That 401(k) budget is the part that really gets me. That's more than 50% of my annual salary!!

toastrovn2 avatar
person (i think)
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ug, my best friend is like this a bit. She actually is pretty good about budgeting in other areas, but she complains about how expensive her house is and how expensive the improvements and taxes are wonders how other people are paying for it all. I have to keep reminding her that she _chose_ a 1.5 million dollar house and _chose_ to put like 300,000 of unnecessary “improvements” in. 🙄🙄.

amarons67 avatar
Andrew Arons
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Aren't mortgage interest and charitable contributions tax-deductible? I didn't see anything in the list that accounted for that.

dipso84 avatar
Gerry McNally
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is crazy, I would just love to see these. "Poor" folks live on $3100.00 a month, which is what my wife n I live on -out of that comes food, utilities, telephone n cable, tax's and house insurance, car payments oh and once every couple of years we go on vacation - some place exotic like Georgia or possibly North Carolina. Yup must be tough living on 400K per year. Don't want to rain on anyone's parade but maybe just maybe you should get down off your high horse and join reality!!

misscellania avatar
Miss Cellania
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yikes, does he not realize that the proposed tax is progressive? Your first $400,000 is taxed as it has been in the past, but only the income over that amount will see a tax hike. Other than that, yeah, these people are not struggling at all. I can fix that budget in five minutes, since I've never earned more than a tenth that amount.

jeffrequier_1 avatar
Requiem
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Their f****n fault they bought a massive house and expensive daycare an schools. My dad made 100k or so and we had a small house they finally sold when I was 24 and they had a basic small cabin. No brand new vehicles but when my dad retired he bought a 2003 gmc diesel he STILL drives today. We werent spoiled and I was working at 15. which got me skills to run a moving delivery company with my brother at 18. They got both places paid off before selling them and buying another small place in BC.

maxwatson1991 avatar
Max
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Maybe I'm just sitting here at <£10,000pa but I have no sympathy for people making $400Kpa saying they're struggling.

spamgone avatar
Steve Haigh
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm on £25k a year and I feel I live comfortably and have enough to put aside for savings. I certainly don't live in luxury but I could also not claim to be "struggling". I guess some people just can't manage finances in the slightest.

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Olly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't envy people making $400,000 a year. I made very little, but I also have NO job stress and a very easy and enjoyable job too. I'd much rather have that then be a doctor working 80 hours a week!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That’s silly. The more you make, the more you just dictate and delegate to others. High earning jobs aren’t necessarily harder.

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Bill Taylor
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This family needs to downsize. $2 million mortgage? Sell the house and move into something a third of that price. Property taxes and interest would automatically be cut by 60%. $2,000 a month for food? I spend $1,000 on a family of four and we eat things like steak and seafood at least 4-5 times a month. Why buy a new car? Buy used for 40% of the original cost. This person/family needs a financial coach to assist them.

roberteksten avatar
Robert Eksten
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This data is for "in an expensive metropolitan area". Good luck on your real estate search! 2 million gets you about 1500 square feet in Manhattan.

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Annamagelic
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Is this seriously out of touch with how most Americans live? Absolutely! Should these people be taxed more? Yes, they probably should. However an argument can be made that this is basicly what a middle class life of two working educated professionals SHOULD look like. If wage increases had kept up with economic growth over the last 50 years or so it would be. The biggest issue is with the accumulation of wealth at the 0.1% or 0.01% level. If we had a more equitable society, with the wealthy paying their fair share these people make $400 000 might actually come out ahead paying their fair share. If we had truly excellent public education all that money spent on private preschool and college savings plans wouldn't feel like a necessity for their children to be successful. If we had universal healthcare it would cost less than what they and their employers are paying for a high quality health plan.

jacobbeccagizmothesquirrel avatar
Becca Gizmo the Squirrel
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They are living incredibly comfortable in their $1.5 million dollar home, taking vacations, wearing gap, and driving good cars! They have everything they need, plus plenty more. Notice they are paying almost $7,500 a year in health insurance. If the US would start doing universal healthcare, this family would probably pay less than $7,500 in taxes for it, and everyone would be covered. And they pay over $5000 a month for daycare and preschool???? Who runs those daycares? The queen? They don't have to worry about how they are going to pay the electric bill every month. They are living more than comfortably, they have no room to complain.

jacobbeccagizmothesquirrel avatar
Becca Gizmo the Squirrel
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I can't even imagine bringing home $21,000 a month and complaining about how they have so little to live on. They live more comfortable than probably70%of Americans and complain because they don't drive a range rover. Yuck.

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Izzy_
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm in the lower middle class, if that even exists lol but I'd be happy to pay higher taxes just for everyone get free health care. I hate it when I get sick or injure myself and have to ponder if I REEEEALLY need to see a doc. I went to the ER for food poisoning once...4 hours, one pill and one bag of IV later, I came out with a $10,000 bill WTF??? $400,000 is well more than enough for a family of 4.

valmartinez72 avatar
V Martinez
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And the one person said that $400K was lower middle class. (That was how I read it.) Did they maybe mean lower upper class? I don't see how that is anywhere in the middle class at all. Or did I miss something? Lol

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mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I mean. I make like less than half of that and I fly first class and have a luxury apartment and car in an expensive city. These people are lying and also wasting their money on huge mortgages and having kids. If you make $400,000 a year and can’t manage it, you don’t deserve $400,000 a year.

mrosol2 avatar
Maureen Manion-Rosol
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Biden has now dropped the income to $200,000 for the big tax increase.

rdougherty666 avatar
Ryan-James O'Driscoll
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you include in your budget all leisure activities and investments that you might put your surplus income into, every budget would close off with nothing left over regardless of how much money you start with. This "budget" has been carefully constructed consume 400k. If it excluded luxuries, play money and non-essentials, as well a life choices such as paying for kid's college, it would give a much more accurate cost of living estimation and would have a substantial amount left over. Choosing to spend money on additional things does not make them a life expense because that spending, however wise, useful or enjoyable it might be, is entirely optional.

roberteksten avatar
Robert Eksten
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the point of this is just to illustrate that an amount of yearly salary that most people would think would leave you swimming in cash, actually doesn't in some cities. I interpret the data as a commentary on how ludicrously expensive it has become to live in some American cities. That salary absolutely might afford you an extraordinarily opulent lifestyle, and the ability to save as well, in other more reasonably priced areas of the country. That's all. Why so much vitriol against the "rich"? People of all economic classes can and do live beyond their means. (That seems to be a common complaint about this scenario in the commentary). Also you are talking about a couple that each makes $200k per year. That's rarified air. Most people would describe that as "having made it". Wouldn't you assume you'd be living on easy street if you made that kind of money? It seems most commenters are disregarding that this is data for "in an expensive metropolitan area". I'm imaging NYC or San Francisco or similar. Also, I'm not sure why people are objecting to the food line item. In my reading, I see $65/day on food for 4 people as $16.25 per day per person, or around $5.40 a meal. That seems about right for an expensive city. That's cheaper than a fast food combo, actually.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yep. I didn't get the impression that these folks think they're struggling. They're living a nice life. It's just not the life of a wealthy person. It's not luxury. It's solidly middle class to upper middle class. They're saving money. They enjoy vacations, though not lavish ones. They eat out, get food delivered, have money for recreation and activities for the kids. That's a nice, comfortable life. I grew up in the SF Bay Area and still live here. That lifestyle is not a large step up from what my parents were able to do earning a bit above median wage with a high school education. They had a 4 bedroom house in a good school district. The kind of house that takes more like a $250K income to buy in the suburb they lived in. That house in San Francisco proper (with a much smaller lot) would take at least a $400K salary to afford. That's the big point to me. They're in the 1% to afford a lifestyle that used to be for (my estimation) the top 20-30%.

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EQXL
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well maybe even those earning 400k should be earning more in the grand scheme of things. But seriously a 1800 dollars family plan of 20GB?? I pay less than 750 euros a year for 200GB and three people. If my youngsters get old enough it will be around 850 a year and 280GB (ofc not counting inflation).

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Mobile plans are more expensive in the US than Europe. Same with our broadband.

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Rose the Cook
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The more money people have the more they spend. I listened to a radio talkback programme from Australia where an old lady complained that her daughter and son-in-law and their two children lived with her but refused to contribute to the cost of utiliies etc. Claiming that they couldn't afford to they gave her a list of their expenses that included $2,000 a week for wine and entertainment!

mprince39 avatar
Molly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Imagine people thinking $400k is a lot when they have an entire payroll to pay. Most small business owners don't organize as an LLC and therefore pay employees out of pocket. You all just sit there thinking these Scrooge McDucks are bathing in their dollar bills. Totally ignorant!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You’re so dumb you don’t even know the difference between profit and income. You’ll never have a relevant opinion on money or this conversation, Moll.

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Xylle Flora
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For my family at least, a house would cost 600K-800K, which is on the higher end compared to people who earn around minimum wage, not 2M. I'm sorry if this is wrong, I'm just estimating.

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Nikki Sevven
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is ridiculous. The problem with people like this is that they're already living beyond their means, and unwilling to budget a reduction in their luxurious lifestyle to pay taxes. (1) You don't need a car in a metro area, never mind a gas guzzling, high end SUV. Use public transportation. (2) Your savings plan clearly includes 16 years of private schooling for two children. Send your kids to public school. (3) If you're spending $65/day on food, cut back on restaurant meals and takeout. (4) Don't buy a $2M house, then bitch that you can't afford it. (5) No one needs a 20G/month data plan unless they're streaming porn all day long. (6) If you're taking three vacations a year, STFU. You ain't poor. (7) If you can afford to give $3G to charity, GTFO of here with your whining about money.

cassiewilliams avatar
Cassie
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Also, I have four kids who are now teens and adults and have never ever spent anywhere close to $200 per month for clothes even for the entire family and even when they were constantly growing out of everything. That's just nuts.

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Marianne Contrino
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I find it interesting that whenever there's an article about young/lower income people, and how they spend their money, it's always focused on how they need to be better about budgeting, and prioritizing what's important...needs over wants. You know, less avocado toast, and Starbucks, more cook at home, and save, save, save, but you NEVER see that in reports like this. They want to criticize those making $40,000 a year for eating out once a week, but not the people making 10 times that, who seem to be eating out everyday?!?! And if you're pulling in 400k a year, then I'm guessing you have a job with good benefits, and retirement package, those of us on the lower end probably don't have either, so an illness has the potential to bankrupt us, or cost our jobs for missing work to deal with it. And don't get me started on the vast improvements to ones mental health there are, when you don't have to worry about putting food on the table everyday. I realize $400,000 is different, depending on where you live, but this idea that they're struggling too, is absolute nonsense. Just eat out less, vacation closer to home, and downsize subscription services, if it's the supposed "cure all" for our money woes, it can work for them too. God, this reeks of the "rich people are just like you" propaganda bs we see pop up when they don't want to pay their fair share, and I for one am tired of it.

k-jane39 avatar
Elio X
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Seriously. These people put almost my annual income into a 401K every year, so cry me a river. I know they aren't the same level as wealthy as people like Bezos and Bezos should be taxed even more, but they are still well-off and it's factually wrong to act like they only have $34 left to pay for miscellaneous expenses. Let's be generous and say they need the mortgage and need the pricey daycare. They still spend a lot of money on variable expenses like recreation, vacation, and oh yeah AVOCADO TOAST or take-out. (Also, I'm not sure why the daycare and pre-school have overlapping times unless it's the price for one of the kids to be in daycare and the other one to be in pre-school.) I wasn't aware that nearly $4K on zoo trips and Netflix was an essential expense. Not to mention, when it comes to younger people, the complaints are that we do too much take-out or Starbucks but that we're bad for killing Applebee's or other chain restaurants. Like pick one.

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N G
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

To pick up on the food bill. The chart states a family of 4 spends $2000 on food, including regular deliveries. For comparison, the average UK family of 4 spends (at current exchange rate) $861. That includes what is defined as "food prepared outside the house". Either the US is massively ripped off when it comes to food prices, or this family of 4 is massively, and unnecessarily, spending on food/groceries. This spreadsheet reads as someone who is *very bad with money*! It makes my budgeting brain itch.

saragregory0508 avatar
N G
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This has really bothered me. So I checked the details of a program called Rich House Poor House. (not exactly a reliable source, but the numbers involved are still revealing, even if I'm blowing my credibility!) The families involved are in the economic top and bottom 10%. One of the latest episodes had the Rich family (of 4 - so still comparable) spending $1,785 a month on groceries. That's at a farm shop, not a supermarket (even a high-end one). And for reference, nearly all of the top 10% families who feature on the show are millionaires. If they spend less than what a family on half their income "budgets" for on food - I know why they're millionaires! This spreadsheet is a work of fiction worthy of Hemingway!

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Sasha Kuleshov
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

400K per year is 1100 buck per day, what the f*ck are they buying to struggle with money? ._.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The Twitter users are posing it as struggle. The article quoted simply said that they don't live like rich people, the way you might think with that salary. They would outside of an expensive metro. Of course, if they moved, the salaries wouldn't be that high. These folks are upper middle class on that money. They have a good savings plan. They have money for vacations, entertainment, private school and activities for the kids. I doubt they think they're struggling. Some Twitter user interpreted it that way.

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Pilot Chick
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They spend more than I make in a year on daycare and preschool. I bet I could find them a bunch of ways to save money.

costa2706 avatar
Kari Panda
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I can’t comment on how realistic these numbers are since I‘m not from the US, but what I don’t get is how a) $400k per year for a family of 4 apparently is just enough to get by with normal living standards but b) minimum wage apparently is enough as it is and doesn’t need to be raised?

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The majority of Americans actually support raising the minimum wage. However we have a party that is in the minority that has disproportionate power and representation, that is standing in the way of raising it. Our campaign system also allows what is essentially legalized bribery, so we have a lot of politicians that serve their paymasters rather than the people.

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dks001 avatar
DKS 001
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I wish I has $400,000 a year to complain about. Last year I earned a whopping $21,700 and live with someone on disability who gets a little over $700 a month to live on. So the household is about $28,000 a year. Rent is $6600 a year, No health insurance (that would be $2400 a year plus $3000 to pay before insurance would kick in). Utilities about $2000 a year. Phones $1500 a year. Food roughly $5000 a year. Student loans about $1200 a year. Car / gas = about $1200 a year. Necessities around $2000 a year. Now ... after taxes, that $21700 is knocked down to about $19000 net. So what's left over goes to any sudden medical, vet, car, or winter emergencies. And trying to save money. I don't have a $2M home. I don't pay for schools or daycare (must be a nanny). I don't go on vacations or take time off unless I'm sick. I don't have 401K or insurance. If you have $400,000 and you're "not making ends meet", you'd best be looking at what you're wasting all that on!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I’m sorry DKS. Whatever you do, your time is surely worth more than what you are being paid.

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breakmyheart avatar
Something
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

While a person who earns that much should definitely be considered rich, there is also a huge difference between the moderately wealthy and the super wealthy.

emmajgarv avatar
Niffler_13
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't feel sorry for those people. The rest of us have to learn to live within our means. My family went on 2 vacations, first, when I was a toddler because my grandparents lived in Florida, and then when I was 10 because my extended family went and we got a large group deal. My first car was 15 years old and had 100,000 miles on it and I drove it for 5 years. I'm fortunate that I can pay my bills and afford the occasional dinner out or night at the movies (when that was still a thing).

blue-stars avatar
cursed--alien
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How the f**k is regular takeaway and vacations not part of leftover cashiola?

pandoraxvii avatar
CanidaeVulpes
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

First, I do agree the chart is not right. There’s lot of books out there (Rich Dad Poor Dad, Millionaire Next Door) which shows that you usually can’t tell who is a millionaire in everyday life. This chart looks more like celebrities, influences, or people trying to live rich extravagant lives. Because income taxes are a loaded and charged issue, and for good reason - your punishing people (and corporations) for making money, maybe something new should be tried. The tax system itself is a mess and with so many loopholes I wouldn’t be surprised if no one really ends up paying more taxes. I think what needs to be done is drastically simplify the tax code, maybe a flat tax or something like that. Couple that with maybe a luxury tax instead. I’m not an expert, but it seems foolish to me to keep trying the same old thing expecting better results.

ma-lahann avatar
marianne eliza
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$400K is more than the grand prize in Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes. The current PCH game is $7K/week for life. That's only $364K/yr.

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

$364k a year is a shít load of money. I wouldn’t work anymore if someone was just giving me that.

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daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

No matter how high the taxes get, it will never be enough, since Democrats have taught most minorities, and white women, that they deserve to receive ''free'' stuff, without contributing with anything.

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I suppose those taxes will be used to reward poor mothers popping out kids for welfare.

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

It used to be about 400k per person, but they changed it to 400k per family. It will probably change to less per family, after a while.

gnatsin avatar
Natalie KS
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm not rich by any means. In fact, I'm poor af. I completely understand the comment about living beyond one's means should apply to wealthy people too. I have an issue with grouping people making $400K a year in with people making $400M a year. There is no comparison. Does that cause the moderately rich people to consider themselves 'Bezos' or 'Musk' level rich? Do they realise that they're closer to becoming broke and homeless than ever achieving multi-millionaire (much less useless billionaires) levels of wealth? It makes me wonder if the repulsively rich push the idea that 'the Poors are taking all your tax money', causing the moderately wealthy to disparage less fortunate people, while the Bezos of the world line their pockets with tax breaks and money from cuts to social services? Yes, $400K is wealthy. But they're fed propaganda so they'll support the mega-rich's exploitation of the Poor, while foolishly expecting the mega-rich to give a s**t about them.

samjasonwexler avatar
sam
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The issue with these tax hikes, as the original article is pointing out, is that they affect mid-level earners. They don’t actually hit the people who SHOULD be paying more taxes like the Kardashians, Elon Musks, and Jeff Bezos of the country. And directing your rightful anger about inequity at people who have done moderately well for themselves is misplaced. They’re trying to function in the same system as you. It’s the people who are earning millions upon millions and even billions and are therefore able to live outside the system who deserve your anger. And before anyone jumps on me, this is my opinion as a struggling creative who will likely never make that much money. And I don’t know about you, but I haven’t really seen the government spend taxes in a way that benefits people like us much. More military spending? Sure. More lining the pockets of corrupt politicians? Yup. So whether or not people making 400k a year are struggling, isn’t really the point...continued...

samjasonwexler avatar
sam
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

...The system is corrupt and people at that benchmark are still living under its oppression. And as one person pointed out 400k in Des Moines is very different than 400k in San Francisco. But you have to be living in SF to make 400k, you’d likely be making a quarter of that or less in Des Moines working the same job.

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Death Metal Kitty
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Who needs to spend $2,400 a year a clothes? Who buys new clothes every month! Something is very wrong with this family if they're burning through this much money on fast fashion!

malaspirited avatar
Arikan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Amazing how the people with the greater income are going nuts about having to give up the tiniest part of it. (Let me also point out the “mid-range Toyota Highlander” LOL) I start feeling that people in the USA are totally lost in their unrealistic Hollywoodish expectations of how life should be. That is why they live on antidepressants, thinking life is meant to be easy and happy as f**k, and that is why they think driving a car smaller than a dinosaur is pure tragedy.

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Jeff K
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't know what the right line to draw is for higher taxes, but to me, what people are missing out on is that housing and other basic costs in major urban areas are so high, that you need to make much more to live a comfortable life. The hidden issue is that large number of Americans no longer can afford to own a house, go on vacations, provide for their kids, save for retirement, and do other things we think people should be able to do to thrive. Meanwhile, a tiny number of people have amassed wealth beyond the imagining of emperors.

amberyoung_2 avatar
AY1984
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This article is so out of touch. My husband and I are in the middle/upper end of middle class. When I lost out what I can do with my money compared to a friend who's family make 30k less than I do my struggles are extremely different. At one point I had two car payments that equaled $1100 a month, a mortgage, daycare and other expenses that families from a different income would not normally have. If I chose to live like my friends did then I would end up being about to put away $1500 a month easily into savings. If this family of 4 with 400k lived like my husband and I do then they would end up with 280k a year to fall back on. People making 60k a year don't have that excess money like that to fall back on and if I lived like someone who made 60k I would have 40-50k a year to fall back on. It is not a great comparison.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the key factor here is living in an expensive metro area. The housing costs are insane, which, in turn, drives up the price of everything. $400K in most of the country is living large. $400K in some place like San Francisco is upper middle class. The median rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in San Francisco is $2,600. Got kids? Want a 3 bd place? $4,500. Still, a lot of people here are interpreting this article like somehow these folks think they're struggling. They're not. I don't think they think they're struggling, either. They live a solidly upper middle class life. They don't live the lives of wealthy people, though. If you look at their budget, they are putting away savings, too.

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kjorn avatar
kjorn
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

wow... 7000$ for vacation??? that's priviledged. ONCE a year my family and i go camping and it cost us almost 500$ and it's a luxury for us! don't cry baby me for THREE vacancy a week for 7000$ buck!

sykes2477 avatar
SykesDaMan
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I agree, 400K/year isn't that much... If you're a family of 75...

juli_june avatar
June
Community Member
2 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I thought I was "lower middle class" with my 25k annual. Just figured out I'm broke as hell 😂

danipop86_1 avatar
daniel280456
Community Member
3 years ago

This comment has been deleted.

momincombatboots03 avatar
Madre_Dr4gnZFly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

OK...so NOBODY bothered to question a cell phone FAMILY plan with 2 kids that aren't even old enough for KINDERGARTEN??!!

jamespointer avatar
James Pointer
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I got stuck on $65 a day food.... I really want to see that food pile... Can I take take some of that so I can eat what's nutritionally recommended each day instead of under cutting myself?

zovjraar avatar
zovjraar
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

my husband and i made close to $60k combined last year. and i got a tax refund. we're saving for retirement and donated $2k to charity last year. i expect to donate more this year. i grew up poor af and i want to help others.

dirigobill avatar
Bill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Where exactly is the tax rate on the home this little?

emilyaverill avatar
Emily Boeding Averill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

My definition of living it up: going to the zoo, saving for my kid's college, taking 3 weeks of vacation a year, paying an entire teacher's salary to watch my kids, buying 2 cars, getting food delivered, shopping at anywhere other than Walmart clearance, giving to charity, paying more than $3 a meal per person....

emilyaverill avatar
Emily Boeding Averill
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The student to teacher ratio for their daycare and preschool must be 1:1 because they are paying an ENTIRE TEACHER'S SALARY a year.

alishadavies7 avatar
Alisha Davies
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Our family makes 90 000 a year . For me this is lower middle class In our town . 400 000 is rich to me.

changedmoon avatar
Hugo A-niro
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

How about the people living in disability ? don't care about these people

geekymcdork avatar
Aubrie Allen
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

These poor people having to take small, not extravagant vacations. I'm almost 40 and have never been on vacation. Any time off I get, I use to catch up on sleep. Most of us can't afford any type of vacation.

robindjw avatar
Robin DJW
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I never made more than $90K, I am comfortably retired, have no debt, and like some other Pandas here, would pay more tax to be sure everyone had medical care and enough to eat. My two kids grew up when the 4 of us had less than 35K per year. It was tough, but we did it and no one suffered. $400K is ridiculous. That list of expenses is a joke.

norartnorart avatar
Norart
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And this is why all these people are moving out of California. And bringing their mess and insane politics to you a city near YOU.

lesburleson avatar
Leslie Burleson
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think this is more about incomes not rising as fast as inflation is. Everything is so expensive . With everything that you need to pay for : car , car insurance , gas , mortgage or rent , insurance for mortgage or rent , medical care , medicine , daycare , food etc etc . It's really hard for young people to become independent because you can't pay for all of these things with a beginner's income or making minimum wage . Our financial structure needs fixed .

nathanjones_2 avatar
Nathan Jones
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I live in Virginia Beach. A resort city with a notoriously high cost of living. Prior to my divorce last year, we had a nice sized 4 bedroom house in a great neighborhood. We also have two kids, just to keep costs in perspective. Our house was $358,000 with a monthly mortgage payment of just under $2,000. I drove a brand new Jeep cherokee, and my wife drove a brand new Nissan altima. Combined monthly cost of that was around $500. Full coverage health insurance for the entire family cost us $348. We went on a one-week vacation every year at a cost of $2,000. we had the maxed out packages for cable, internet, and cell phones. We also had the newest cell phones every year. We had subscriptions to netflix, hulu, and Amazon prime, along with a few other ones. I am a cook, so we ate gourmet meals every meal at home. Even with that, our grocery bill was around $1,200 a month. Whatever we wanted, we bought. Whenever we wanted to go somewhere, we went. Between the four of us, we spent around $2,000 a year on new clothes and shoes. Me and my wife were also each a one pack a day smoker, so that was an added expense of around $15 every day. We didn't want for anything, and we were very far from what anybody would consider struggling. We were a single income household, and I was making $78,000 a year. There is no f*****g way a family of four is even remotely in the vicinity of struggling, unless they are living well beyond their means. WEEEELLLLLLL beyond.

anilda32 avatar
Anilda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They get 500k in ZAR per month... which can buy you a Merc cash, or 6 months salary will pay off a pretty well sized home... The list goes on. Yes poor them :-p

veraxtactus avatar
Pamda Panda
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That 401(k) budget is the part that really gets me. That's more than 50% of my annual salary!!

toastrovn2 avatar
person (i think)
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Ug, my best friend is like this a bit. She actually is pretty good about budgeting in other areas, but she complains about how expensive her house is and how expensive the improvements and taxes are wonders how other people are paying for it all. I have to keep reminding her that she _chose_ a 1.5 million dollar house and _chose_ to put like 300,000 of unnecessary “improvements” in. 🙄🙄.

amarons67 avatar
Andrew Arons
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Aren't mortgage interest and charitable contributions tax-deductible? I didn't see anything in the list that accounted for that.

dipso84 avatar
Gerry McNally
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This is crazy, I would just love to see these. "Poor" folks live on $3100.00 a month, which is what my wife n I live on -out of that comes food, utilities, telephone n cable, tax's and house insurance, car payments oh and once every couple of years we go on vacation - some place exotic like Georgia or possibly North Carolina. Yup must be tough living on 400K per year. Don't want to rain on anyone's parade but maybe just maybe you should get down off your high horse and join reality!!

misscellania avatar
Miss Cellania
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yikes, does he not realize that the proposed tax is progressive? Your first $400,000 is taxed as it has been in the past, but only the income over that amount will see a tax hike. Other than that, yeah, these people are not struggling at all. I can fix that budget in five minutes, since I've never earned more than a tenth that amount.

jeffrequier_1 avatar
Requiem
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Their f****n fault they bought a massive house and expensive daycare an schools. My dad made 100k or so and we had a small house they finally sold when I was 24 and they had a basic small cabin. No brand new vehicles but when my dad retired he bought a 2003 gmc diesel he STILL drives today. We werent spoiled and I was working at 15. which got me skills to run a moving delivery company with my brother at 18. They got both places paid off before selling them and buying another small place in BC.

maxwatson1991 avatar
Max
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Maybe I'm just sitting here at <£10,000pa but I have no sympathy for people making $400Kpa saying they're struggling.

spamgone avatar
Steve Haigh
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm on £25k a year and I feel I live comfortably and have enough to put aside for savings. I certainly don't live in luxury but I could also not claim to be "struggling". I guess some people just can't manage finances in the slightest.

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Olly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I don't envy people making $400,000 a year. I made very little, but I also have NO job stress and a very easy and enjoyable job too. I'd much rather have that then be a doctor working 80 hours a week!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

That’s silly. The more you make, the more you just dictate and delegate to others. High earning jobs aren’t necessarily harder.

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Bill Taylor
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This family needs to downsize. $2 million mortgage? Sell the house and move into something a third of that price. Property taxes and interest would automatically be cut by 60%. $2,000 a month for food? I spend $1,000 on a family of four and we eat things like steak and seafood at least 4-5 times a month. Why buy a new car? Buy used for 40% of the original cost. This person/family needs a financial coach to assist them.

roberteksten avatar
Robert Eksten
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

This data is for "in an expensive metropolitan area". Good luck on your real estate search! 2 million gets you about 1500 square feet in Manhattan.

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awoodhull avatar
Annamagelic
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Is this seriously out of touch with how most Americans live? Absolutely! Should these people be taxed more? Yes, they probably should. However an argument can be made that this is basicly what a middle class life of two working educated professionals SHOULD look like. If wage increases had kept up with economic growth over the last 50 years or so it would be. The biggest issue is with the accumulation of wealth at the 0.1% or 0.01% level. If we had a more equitable society, with the wealthy paying their fair share these people make $400 000 might actually come out ahead paying their fair share. If we had truly excellent public education all that money spent on private preschool and college savings plans wouldn't feel like a necessity for their children to be successful. If we had universal healthcare it would cost less than what they and their employers are paying for a high quality health plan.

jacobbeccagizmothesquirrel avatar
Becca Gizmo the Squirrel
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

They are living incredibly comfortable in their $1.5 million dollar home, taking vacations, wearing gap, and driving good cars! They have everything they need, plus plenty more. Notice they are paying almost $7,500 a year in health insurance. If the US would start doing universal healthcare, this family would probably pay less than $7,500 in taxes for it, and everyone would be covered. And they pay over $5000 a month for daycare and preschool???? Who runs those daycares? The queen? They don't have to worry about how they are going to pay the electric bill every month. They are living more than comfortably, they have no room to complain.

jacobbeccagizmothesquirrel avatar
Becca Gizmo the Squirrel
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I can't even imagine bringing home $21,000 a month and complaining about how they have so little to live on. They live more comfortable than probably70%of Americans and complain because they don't drive a range rover. Yuck.

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Izzy_
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I'm in the lower middle class, if that even exists lol but I'd be happy to pay higher taxes just for everyone get free health care. I hate it when I get sick or injure myself and have to ponder if I REEEEALLY need to see a doc. I went to the ER for food poisoning once...4 hours, one pill and one bag of IV later, I came out with a $10,000 bill WTF??? $400,000 is well more than enough for a family of 4.

valmartinez72 avatar
V Martinez
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

And the one person said that $400K was lower middle class. (That was how I read it.) Did they maybe mean lower upper class? I don't see how that is anywhere in the middle class at all. Or did I miss something? Lol

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mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I mean. I make like less than half of that and I fly first class and have a luxury apartment and car in an expensive city. These people are lying and also wasting their money on huge mortgages and having kids. If you make $400,000 a year and can’t manage it, you don’t deserve $400,000 a year.

mrosol2 avatar
Maureen Manion-Rosol
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Biden has now dropped the income to $200,000 for the big tax increase.

rdougherty666 avatar
Ryan-James O'Driscoll
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

If you include in your budget all leisure activities and investments that you might put your surplus income into, every budget would close off with nothing left over regardless of how much money you start with. This "budget" has been carefully constructed consume 400k. If it excluded luxuries, play money and non-essentials, as well a life choices such as paying for kid's college, it would give a much more accurate cost of living estimation and would have a substantial amount left over. Choosing to spend money on additional things does not make them a life expense because that spending, however wise, useful or enjoyable it might be, is entirely optional.

roberteksten avatar
Robert Eksten
Community Member
3 years ago (edited) DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

I think the point of this is just to illustrate that an amount of yearly salary that most people would think would leave you swimming in cash, actually doesn't in some cities. I interpret the data as a commentary on how ludicrously expensive it has become to live in some American cities. That salary absolutely might afford you an extraordinarily opulent lifestyle, and the ability to save as well, in other more reasonably priced areas of the country. That's all. Why so much vitriol against the "rich"? People of all economic classes can and do live beyond their means. (That seems to be a common complaint about this scenario in the commentary). Also you are talking about a couple that each makes $200k per year. That's rarified air. Most people would describe that as "having made it". Wouldn't you assume you'd be living on easy street if you made that kind of money? It seems most commenters are disregarding that this is data for "in an expensive metropolitan area". I'm imaging NYC or San Francisco or similar. Also, I'm not sure why people are objecting to the food line item. In my reading, I see $65/day on food for 4 people as $16.25 per day per person, or around $5.40 a meal. That seems about right for an expensive city. That's cheaper than a fast food combo, actually.

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Yep. I didn't get the impression that these folks think they're struggling. They're living a nice life. It's just not the life of a wealthy person. It's not luxury. It's solidly middle class to upper middle class. They're saving money. They enjoy vacations, though not lavish ones. They eat out, get food delivered, have money for recreation and activities for the kids. That's a nice, comfortable life. I grew up in the SF Bay Area and still live here. That lifestyle is not a large step up from what my parents were able to do earning a bit above median wage with a high school education. They had a 4 bedroom house in a good school district. The kind of house that takes more like a $250K income to buy in the suburb they lived in. That house in San Francisco proper (with a much smaller lot) would take at least a $400K salary to afford. That's the big point to me. They're in the 1% to afford a lifestyle that used to be for (my estimation) the top 20-30%.

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d-x-a-gokke avatar
EQXL
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Well maybe even those earning 400k should be earning more in the grand scheme of things. But seriously a 1800 dollars family plan of 20GB?? I pay less than 750 euros a year for 200GB and three people. If my youngsters get old enough it will be around 850 a year and 280GB (ofc not counting inflation).

alisa-fender avatar
Honu
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Mobile plans are more expensive in the US than Europe. Same with our broadband.

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liverpoolroze avatar
Rose the Cook
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

The more money people have the more they spend. I listened to a radio talkback programme from Australia where an old lady complained that her daughter and son-in-law and their two children lived with her but refused to contribute to the cost of utiliies etc. Claiming that they couldn't afford to they gave her a list of their expenses that included $2,000 a week for wine and entertainment!

mprince39 avatar
Molly
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

Imagine people thinking $400k is a lot when they have an entire payroll to pay. Most small business owners don't organize as an LLC and therefore pay employees out of pocket. You all just sit there thinking these Scrooge McDucks are bathing in their dollar bills. Totally ignorant!

mintyminameow avatar
Mewton’s Third Paw
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

You’re so dumb you don’t even know the difference between profit and income. You’ll never have a relevant opinion on money or this conversation, Moll.

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xyllemc avatar
Xylle Flora
Community Member
3 years ago DotsCreated by potrace 1.15, written by Peter Selinger 2001-2017

For my family at least, a house would cost 600K-800K, which is on the higher end compared to people who earn around minimum wage, not 2M. I'm sorry if this is wrong, I'm just estimating.

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